Swimming Pool

[frostage]

Hi all
I wonder if you can help me, i am a member of BSAC club that is based in stockport and we hire a pool for 1 hour a week for training etc. One thing stockport sport trust insist on is having their lifeguards. The result of this is our pool cost's are seriously higher than neighbouring areas which dont insist on lifeguards.
These lifeguards have admitted themselve's they would'nt have a clue what to do if a diver got in trouble, so in effect we are paying for something as a club that is not needed. Other clubs i have been at nominate a sports diver to be the lifeguard weekly,which is what we would like to do.
What i need is ammunition in terms of facts, if your club hires a pool could you let me know if you have to employ the councils lifeguards or not.

f

[Maria CM]

Are any of your divers qualified life guards?

Problem is usually one of insurance in council pools - needs to be an 'employee'

I private hire a few pools from schools etc and those you are OK as long as you have appropriate life saving qualifications in my experience.

best wishes,

Maria

[Gav S]

Hi,

Yes we use a council pool and the lifeguards are required. In fact, this was discussed failry recently (in connection with ideas for saving money) and one of the instructors mentioned that the council had been approached (albeit some years ago) to see if they would accept club intructors, who also had lifesaver qualifications, as pool cover without success.

Then again, the sports centre we use has its staff in for all the other areas/gyms during our pool sessions anyway and need people around to clean up/lock up/etc, so I would be a bit surprised if they agreed to make special arrangements about 2 or 3 pool guards, or to re-deploy them for an hour, to accommodate us.

Saying that, at another pool I used with a different club the club made its own arrangments and the building was merely opened or closed by someone before and after the session - that was a school pool though and no access to random public...

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by Gav S

Hi,

Yes we use a council pool and the lifeguards are required. In fact, this was discussed fairly recently (in connection with ideas for saving money) and one of the instructors mentioned that the council had been approached (albeit some years ago) to see if they would accept club instructors, who also had lifesaver qualifications, as pool cover without success.

Then again, the sports centre we use has its staff in for all the other areas/gyms during our pool sessions anyway and need people around to clean up/lock up/etc, so I would be a bit surprised if they agreed to make special arrangements about 2 or 3 pool guards, or to re-deploy them for an hour, to accommodate us.

Saying that, at another pool I used with a different club the club made its own arrangements and the building was merely opened or closed by someone before and after the session - that was a school pool though and no access to random public...

Gav

Anyone holding a Sports Diver qualification is qualified to act as a pool lifeguard, this complies with Managing Health & Safety in Swimming Pools Guidelines written by both the HSE & the Local Authorities Enforcement Liaison Committee.

See here, click on pool safety guidelines.

I would suggest that you use this as part of your opening discussion with the swimming pool management. You may well need to go further & produce risk assessments, & an incident procedure to convince them.

We use a pool at the local recreation centre in St Ives (cambs). The centre is open to the public, we however manage all pool safety issues for our branch, which includes pool Marshall's (lifeguards).
The local pool lifeguards are not familiar with scuba equipment or techniques, & are not qualified to administer oxygen. All of which are reasons they prefer us to provide our own pool Marshall's.

When we used to participate in the annual Round Table day of sports at the recreation centre, we used to provide all the pool Marshall's for the try dive events, even though it was a 'public' event. It is a great shame that this event no longer runs, a casualty of the CRB culture.

Gareth

[Edward]

Originally Posted by Gareth

Gav

Anyone holding a Sports Diver qualification is qualified to act as a pool lifeguard, this complies with Managing Health & Safety in Swimming Pools Guidelines written by both the HSE & the Local Authorities Enforcement Liaison Committee.

See here, click on pool safety guidelines.

I would suggest that you use this as part of your opening discussion with the swimming pool management. You may well need to go further & produce risk assessments, & an incident procedure to convince them.

I'd go and ask them if their insurance covers undertaking rescues for activities they are not trained or qualified to undertake. Then you could offer to train the staff, but no the pool isn't suitable because there are no suitably qualified lifeguards.

Being serious, be careful in you negotiations as the pool management might already have a new user lined up and are just looking for an excuse to terminate your sessions.

Regards

Edward

[frostage]

Originally Posted by Gareth

Gav

Anyone holding a Sports Diver qualification is qualified to act as a pool lifeguard, this complies with Managing Health & Safety in Swimming Pools Guidelines written by both the HSE & the Local Authorities Enforcement Liaison Committee.

See here, click on pool safety guidelines.

I would suggest that you use this as part of your opening discussion with the swimming pool management. You may well need to go further & produce risk assessments, & an incident procedure to convince them.

We use a pool at the local recreation centre in St Ives (cambs). The centre is open to the public, we however manage all pool safety issues for our branch, which includes pool Marshall's (lifeguards).
The local pool lifeguards are not familiar with scuba equipment or techniques, & are not qualified to administer oxygen. All of which are reasons they prefer us to provide our own pool Marshall's.

When we used to participate in the annual Round Table day of sports at the recreation centre, we used to provide all the pool Marshall's for the try dive events, even though it was a 'public' event. It is a great shame that this event no longer runs, a casualty of the CRB culture.

Gareth

Thanks for your information, it very usefull. If my thinking is right, as the lifeguards are not qualified to carry out any form of recovery on a diver ie oxygen administration this leaves the sports trust liable and divers at risk. I think this is a good angle to start the proceeding's as this is something we are in essence duty bound to inform them of their error's. From what i read on the link you provided, BSAC already provide full risk assesment and covers divers for liability in the pool participating on a number of activities even octopush. Obviously we will have to tread very carefully as from experience council people are more than jobsworth's who enjoy nothing better than to spoil someones fun.

Thanks

f

[whitenoise]

Originally Posted by Gareth

Anyone holding a Sports Diver qualification is qualified to act as a pool lifeguard, this complies with Managing Health & Safety in Swimming Pools Guidelines written by both the HSE & the Local Authorities Enforcement Liaison Committee.

That's what our club has beeing doing for years as well. We hire a pool for an hour from a sports centre attached to a school. There's a yearly rota which has all the clubs sports divers listed and we take it turns to be pool marshal. Basically you just walk round the edge of the pool keeping an eye on divers/swimmers.

[johnskerry]

Originally Posted by frostage

Hi all
I wonder if you can help me, i am a member of BSAC club that is based in stockport and we hire a pool for 1 hour a week for training etc. One thing stockport sport trust insist on is having their lifeguards. The result of this is our pool cost's are seriously higher than neighbouring areas which dont insist on lifeguards.
These lifeguards have admitted themselve's they would'nt have a clue what to do if a diver got in trouble, so in effect we are paying for something as a club that is not needed. Other clubs i have been at nominate a sports diver to be the lifeguard weekly,which is what we would like to do.
What i need is ammunition in terms of facts, if your club hires a pool could you let me know if you have to employ the councils lifeguards or not.

f

It would seem to me this is just the sort of thing BSAC HQ should be giving assistance on.
I am also a member of another organisation which have contacted local councils where they have not being observant of national guidelines. They have been very successful in changing individual council polices.
This is surly what we pay into BSAC for. A national body will have far more influence than a individual branch, Are they not suppose to be the UKs governing body after all.

John

[TerryH]

Originally Posted by johnskerry

It would seem to me this is just the sort of thing BSAC HQ should be giving assistance on.
I am also a member of another organisation which have contacted local councils where they have not being observant of national guidelines. They have been very successful in changing individual council polices.
This is surly what we pay into BSAC for. A national body will have far more influence than a individual branch, Are they not suppose to be the UKs governing body after all.

John

BSAC already have guidelines and published info all agreed by HSE etc. and
with many club/pool/council relationships, the very last thing i'd want is the
big guns of BSAC to get involved.

We have to remember that we are not swimmers, but divers who bring a
fair bit of hassle to a standard pool in the way of the odd grubby/unwashed
BC and dropped belt etc. on tiles. Create a few waves (literally) and that
could see the whole club being chucked out in favour of aquarobics etc.

Yes we know that council lifeguards arent ok with saving divers, but if we
pushed that, might the pool/council say that a member of staff must
be able to rescue a diver and as they are not suitable, diving is now stopped.

Trouble is we are playing what if's with a relationship that we as casual
observers (and I include BSAC in that) have little or no experience of and
have as much chance of doing some damage as we have of doing good.

Its for that reason that I reckon the current published guidelines should be
used as a softly, softly approach and if there is any resistence, just accept
that you have to pay for a lifeguard. Having BSAC wade in IMO is not the
awnser, it would only highlight even more potential problems.

[Mike Halligan]

Originally Posted by TerryH

Its for that reason that I reckon the current published guidelines should be used as a softly, softly approach and if there is any resistence, just accept that you have to pay for a lifeguard. Having BSAC wade in IMO is not the awnser, it would only highlight even more potential problems.

We pay for a lifeguard when we hire the council's pool each week. We do not have the option of not paying for attendance and those concerned are there before we arrive / after we leave, managing public sessions. We have always considered our SD members more than capable of effecting any necessary rescue, and a sight closer to any incident than the lifeguard's high chair. However, we have not pressed the point. The pool team could make life very awkward for us (short of ceasing the private hire which is always in their command) but in fact they are extremely helpful and encouraging.

As a Council Tax payer, I am pleased to see a council employee supervising this private hire of a valuable asset. Whether (s)he is a lifeguard or a "patrol" such as we find on our beach / parks / pier / common land isn't material to me. The fact that we are supervised deters abuse, encourages responsibility and maintains a healthy mutual respect.

We gain a great deal as a club and as individuals from our local authority, being supported very well by Leisure Services, Social Services and the Sports Council. I believe it would be unhelpful were we to challenge this detail.