Training in the sea?

One of the sad diver types we might come across is the diver who has been trained in quarries, and who has had no subsequent time proper diving, by which I mean diving in the sea. It is possible to spend diving time visiting the many quarries in this country.

At present, the requirements for qualification in Ocean Diver training do not specify that the student should have been in the sea. As keen BSAC Instructors we know that nothing can be added or taken away from the syllabus and requirements from any grade.

What are people's views? Should sea diving be an obligatory required qualification for our basic grade, and how does that sit with the fact that bad weather may keep some of us out of the sea for many months of the year (we don't have access to a sheltered sea coast suitable for a junior trainee).

Ron

One of the sad diver types we might come across is the diver who has been trained in quarries, and who has had no subsequent time proper diving, by which I mean diving in the sea. It is possible to spend diving time visiting the many quarries in this country.

At present, the requirements for qualification in Ocean Diver training do not specify that the student should have been in the sea. As keen BSAC Instructors we know that nothing can be added or taken away from the syllabus and requirements from any grade.

What are people's views? Should sea diving be an obligatory required qualification for our basic grade, and how does that sit with the fact that bad weather may keep some of us out of the sea for many months of the year (we don't have access to a sheltered sea coast suitable for a junior trainee).

Ron

Hi Ron

Hope you're keeping well. I do not feel that a sea dive should be obligatory for the OD grade, as a qualified OD can only dive with a dive leader or above even when qualified and will be able to gain experience of sea diving as a pre requisite for gaining their Sports Diver Qual. It is valuable for them to become familiar with their kit and its operation in a relatively secure environment such as a quarry, but does not mean that they shouldn't experience the sea if a dive is available for them and their instructor feels they are confident enough to do it.

That's just my feelings but I'm sure other people may have different views.

Steve

What are people's views? Should sea diving be an obligatory required qualification for our basic grade

At Ocean Diver level, giving sea experience would be logistically difficult, and in my opinion unnecessary. There are a few options for sea diving - shore diving, which is difficult in many locations, and generally is quite sheltered anyway so potentially not getting much advantage from quarry training other than a couple of waves and different weighting. Not all clubs have RIBs, so rule that out. Using charters would be expensive and difficult to deal with all the potential problems from - other divers on the boat might be quite upset when they're paying maybe ?20 per dive to be taken to a 10m dive site with a flat bottom, and find they are hanging around for hours on end while 10 trainees are working out how to kit up, going through briefings, getting in, sorting weight problems, etc. Just not a good idea...

Beyond that, once they are sorted with their own diving, then moving to the sea is a good experience. I *believe* that somewhere in the post-Ocean Diver / pre-Sports Diver bits it mentions something about experience in the relevant conditions in which they will subsequently be diving, which for many might mean the sea.

Do whatever training you feel is necessary - don't drag training out by 6 months as you wait for the weather to get out to do one dive in the sea (many of us train in the winter). Some instructors may be much less willing to do training in the summer as they want to get some good diving in themselves, in which case training (particularly at beginner level) is relegated to the winter, and therefore most likely quarries. As long as these trainees subsequently go on to do their first sea diving with a DL/instructor then that should be fine (and technically they have to anyway, because of the "extending experience with an instructor" thing).

In essence though, don't worry about training in quarries - its all water, just with a few more waves, a bit of a current, and more fish!

David

At present, the requirements for qualification in Ocean Diver training do not specify that the student should have been in the sea.

Not specifically, however a trainee Ocean Diver must carry out dives which include a minimum of four of the following conditions...
1. Shelving shore dive (yes, can be inland/fresh water)
2. Steep shore dive (yes, inland)
3. Low visibility 2 - 4m range (yes, inland)
4. Drift dive (at sea, unless you wanna try a river!?)
5. Small boat (at sea, unless you have a very friendly reservoir owner!)
6. Large boat (at sea)
7. Wall dive (probably at sea)
8. Dive in protective clothing (any dive in the UK!)

Yes, an Ocean Diver can gain the sufficient range of experience by doing conditions 1,2,3 and 8 in fresh water sites only.
But remember, this is a minimum. Theres nothing to prevent trainees gaining experience with a wider range of conditions whilst completing their O.O. lessons, and thats not adding to the BSAC syllabus.

The Instructor Manual also says that the range of conditions in which they train should be "appropriate to the local conditions in which they will subsequently be diving".
So if you sign up your Ocean Diver after they have only completed fresh water dives, remember they MUST dive with a Dive Leader when they subsequently go in the sea. So why not incorporate a O.O. lesson with that first, inevitable sea experience dive with the Dive Leader and save time? (Assuming your D.L. is also an instructor)

One of the sad diver types we might come across is the diver who has been trained in quarries, and who has had no subsequent time proper diving, by which I mean diving in the sea. It is possible to spend diving time visiting the many quarries in this country.

At present, the requirements for qualification in Ocean Diver training do not specify that the student should have been in the sea. As keen BSAC Instructors we know that nothing can be added or taken away from the syllabus and requirements from any grade.

What are people's views? Should sea diving be an obligatory required qualification for our basic grade, and how does that sit with the fact that bad weather may keep some of us out of the sea for many months of the year (we don't have access to a sheltered sea coast suitable for a junior trainee).

Ron

Nope. There is absoluteley nothing wrong with a quarry
trained Ocean Diver in the same way that there is nothing
wrong with a warm-water trained Ocean Diver.

It is after all just a basic level. As long as the new OD
and his/her Instructor/buddy is aware that they are not sea
trained and need to be monitored accordingly, where is the
problem?

TerryH

Should sea diving be an obligatory required qualification for our basic grade

As an aside I try to do much of my training inland. I suffer from sea-sickness a bit and most of my tricks to get from the dock into the water don't match most instructor's ideas of a training dive. If I'm learning new skills, reviewing kit changes or just refreshing for a new year I'd prefer to walk from the car to flat water.

With an ocean diver trainee with the same problem I would be happy to teach my seasickness avoidance SDC once the rest of the training is done so we can buddy check and go.

One of the sad diver types we might come across is the diver who has been trained in quarries, and who has had no subsequent time proper diving, by which I mean diving in the sea. It is possible to spend diving time visiting the many quarries in this country.

At present, the requirements for qualification in Ocean Diver training do not specify that the student should have been in the sea. As keen BSAC Instructors we know that nothing can be added or taken away from the syllabus and requirements from any grade.

What are people's views? Should sea diving be an obligatory required qualification for our basic grade, and how does that sit with the fact that bad weather may keep some of us out of the sea for many months of the year (we don't have access to a sheltered sea coast suitable for a junior trainee).

Ron

I dont know how there is an assumption that someone who is trained in a quarry wont do proper diving.

I personally think that training people in a quarry prior to actually sea diving is preferable. Our club trys to get folk trained in the winter months so that they hit the sea running so to speak.

This means that we can get OD done in a couple of months or so, such that trainees can actually dive in the sea albeit with a DL or INST.

If you insisted in Sea Training then BSAC in the UK would come to a severe halt.

Gary

One of the sad diver types we might come across is the diver who has been trained in quarries, and who has had no subsequent time proper diving, by which I mean diving in the sea. It is possible to spend diving time visiting the many quarries in this country.

At present, the requirements for qualification in Ocean Diver training do not specify that the student should have been in the sea. As keen BSAC Instructors we know that nothing can be added or taken away from the syllabus and requirements from any grade.

What are people's views? Should sea diving be an obligatory required qualification for our basic grade, and how does that sit with the fact that bad weather may keep some of us out of the sea for many months of the year (we don't have access to a sheltered sea coast suitable for a junior trainee).

Ron

NO! Is it still true that one can become an'Instructor'elsewere without going in the Sea?

"...as a qualified OD can only dive with a dive leader or above even when qualified..." ?

Not true, an OD can dive with another OD as long as it's within their existing experience.

Not all clubs have RIBs, so rule that out. Using charters would be expensive and difficult to deal with all the potential problems from - other divers on the boat might be quite upset when they're paying maybe ?20 per dive to be taken to a 10m dive site with a flat bottom, and find they are hanging around for hours on end while 10 trainees are working out how to kit up, going through briefings, getting in, sorting weight problems, etc. Just not a good idea...

*** Not really true , Dave... I have my CLUB dive shallow sand beds, and it costs them ? 5 or ? 7.50 each and get hot drinks etc etc as per my normal charter service.
Other clubs i take out to do simple training/ sea familization/ diving from hard boats trips to a shallow bay either side of Dover harbour, as well as some PADI schools doing training at full charter rates.
5 trainee divers with 5 instructors paying ? 50 in total = boxes of t bags, sugar and tin of coffee for the month, just for the sake of a hours time after work one evening a week.
PLUS we sometimes throw in a exercise of some sort ie. a bent diver or a first aid example..... some even get the chance to exercise with the local lifeboat..
But i fully understand what your saying. ****

Personally , i'm seeing lots of divers that have been PUDDLE JUMPING, and when it comes to the sea on thier first shallow wreck dive , there are weight problems - fastish ascents , cold and sea sick and basically putting them off sea diving.

ANdy