Training A Partner to Dive

I trained both my sons at different times (5 years difference in age) and did some of my wife's training but would never have considered doing their assessments. Having a close personal bond between instructor and trainee can be helpful during training but an independent asssement of skills is vital to remove any possibility of bias.

I think that this idea of an independent assessor is a bit of a red herring. When you dive with a club most people are friends anyway (well most!). So having another instructor assess is not really adding any checks; who is to say they wouldn't be less independent that the instructor.

It really comes down to the integrety of the instructors. Either the instructor is honest enough to asses or they are not. If not they should not be an instructor. Quality control is surely from the D.O. who signs off the qualification.

On the other hand I think it's not a bad idea to have a different assessor for practical assessments, as they make them more stressful for the assessed - more realistic or maybe I am just sadistic!

Tim

So, what is the answer to the question regarding training and assessment of a partner or close relation?

So far only personal opinions have been given regarding the ethical problems and possible bias.

If I was to train, assess and sign off for example my Daughter on practical skills am I actually in breach of BSAC rules?

David
OWI

So, what is the answer to the question regarding training and assessment of a partner or close relation?

So far only personal opinions have been given regarding the ethical problems and possible bias.

If I was to train, assess and sign off for example my Daughter on practical skills am I actually in breach of BSAC rules?

David
OWI

Probably not ...but you are opening yourself up for widespread criticism.

Most have advised you against it and explained their reasoning.

Please understand that BSAC make very few rules - because it cannot police them. We also give instructors a fair amount of leeway to use their common sense. If you, and others, persist in flouting the dictates of common sense (and sound advice and reasoning) then the BSAC will be forced to publish recommendations on this matter - and they will almost certainly say "No!"

Please don't force the issue that far!

Take the advice - get involved in training, try to avoid the training of close relatives without support - and certainly have the training you do with them assessed by someone else who is independent and unbiased.

John

If I was to train, assess and sign off for example my Daughter on practical skills am I actually in breach of BSAC rules?

No. As a fully qualified NQI you have the right to sign ANY module or lesson that you are authorised to teach. There is no stipulation as to the relationship between you and the student.

However.......

The club DO has to satisfy himself that such training is up
to the required standard. He can ask for an assessment or
module to be repeated if neccessary. True he/she may have to
justify his/her actions, but regardless of what you do, the DO
is there to mark YOUR work.

TerryH

I have resisted commenting on this, until now. There are some branches with very few active and available instructors, trying to meet the needs of several trainees. In line with BSAC recomendations, that instructor may also be the Diving Officer.

In terms of training and assessment - the BSAC instructor manual lays down clear descriptions of what training needs to be done, and how it is to be conducted. The competence and confidence performance standards are clearly and thoroughly defined. Providing you adhere stictly to the defined standards, then there really shouldn't be a problem.

Assessment should be inline with the required competence described in the instructor manual, and instructors assessing anyone, family, freind or foe should adhere to those guidelines.

Some branches are fortunate to have large numbers of instructors, and the luxury of those instructors wanting to dive, and instruct, lots. some branches are less fortunate, and have to make the best of who they have. Sometimes, this might mean that you have to train someone you are close to.

I have found a good way of assessing trainees is to ask them to assess themselves, in the groups/pairs they were taught in. They each get a sheet describing the performance standard, quoted from the BSAC manual, and are asked to comment on whether they have achieved it or not. They discuss it among themselves, and they tell me if they think they have achieved it, or not. if I agree, I sign it. It works for people you close to aswell, and it means you also have a paper trail behind you so you can justify passing/failing someone should the 'widespread' critiscism that postings on this topic have described actually happen.

In short, if your happy to do the training for someone, you should get on and do it. You have a responsibility to yourself (as partner/father/mother/bro/sister etc) to ensure they are performing well, as you'll probably be buddying up with them in the future!! You have a responsibility to them, because you love 'em, and you don't want them to die. if anything, your probably going to push for a much higher standard than a lower standard, and that's no bad thing.
--
MArtin

:=
:=If I was to train, assess and sign off for example my Daughter on practical skills am I actually in breach of BSAC rules?
:=

No. As a fully qualified NQI you have the right to sign ANY module or lesson that you are authorised to teach. There is no stipulation as to the relationship between you and the student.

However.......

The club DO has to satisfy himself that such training is up
to the required standard. He can ask for an assessment or
module to be repeated if neccessary. True he/she may have to
justify his/her actions, but regardless of what you do, the DO
is there to mark YOUR work.

TerryH

So, what is the answer to the question regarding training and assessment of a partner or close relation?

There is really no issue of a partner or relative training close relations. I have seen it done without any problems. If you are a competent instructor, then there should be no issue. I would not stop it within my branch without a good reason.

Training nowadays is more continous assesment, so it is diffucult to subject someone to a specific assessment with out some grounds or suspicion.

However one thing that does worry me is when an instructor appears with a relative insisting that they perform the training, knowing that they have not instructed for a long time. More often than not they have not trained since a previous training system. At that point I would recommend that an instructor with up to date experience take over. This is not restricted to relatives but seems to happen more often in this scenario.

Another problem with the relative/instructor training relationshiop is that if the trainee does not get exposure to other instructors then they can pick up bad habits. We all have them.

Therefore I would suggest that training a relative is not a problem as long as you are up to date with the training and let the trainee have exposure to other instructors.

Gary Cameron
DO and OWI

:=If I was to train, assess and sign off for example my Daughter on practical skills am I actually in breach of BSAC rules?

Probably not ...but you are opening yourself up for widespread criticism.

Most have advised you against it and explained their reasoning.

-----------John, Thank you for your reply, however I was not looking for advice (or the arguments, I can figure these out myself) but a definitive answer as to BSAC's position.

Please understand that BSAC make very few rules because it cannot police them.

----Are you making this up as you go along. This is nonsense!!! (few rules because you cannot police them, when did BSAC state this?)


If you, and others, persist in flouting the dictates of common sense

----------I am not flouting anything, simply at this stage asking a (reasonable) question!!!!! Try reading what I have said instead of jumping to conclusions!


(and sound advice and reasoning) then the BSAC will be forced to publish recommendations

----recommendations? (do you not mean rules)

on this matter - and they will almost certainly say "No!"

Please don't force the issue that far!

-------Why not force the issue? I do not see a problem. If the answer is no then it is "No" (big deal) however as a member I should be able to ask the question and know one way or another.

David

:=Please understand that BSAC make very few rules because it cannot police them.

----Are you making this up as you go along. This is nonsense!!! (few rules because you cannot police them, when did BSAC state this?)

The BSAC does indeed have very few rules:
1) You must be a member to call yourself such (and pay your subs)
2)You must be medically fir to dive (either by self-cert or by medical)

That's about it!
Everything else is a recommendation - because there is no-one to police any other rule being broken.
The coroner treats recommendations like rules (and so should BSAC members) - but the key difference between a rule and a recommendation is that you pay a penalty when caught breaking a rule and you just get a slapped wrist when breaing a recommendation.
Branches may have rules that insist you follow BSAC recommendations - and have Marshals police them with the DO's authority.
BSAC has no-one to police it's rules - so does not make many.

If you, and others, persist in flouting the dictates of common sense

----------I am not flouting anything, simply at this stage asking a (reasonable) question!!!!! Try reading what I have said instead of jumping to conclusions!

OK...but once you were given an answer (with reasons) you persisted. This implies (or is it infers?) that you either do, or intend to, follow through and do what people advise against.

(and sound advice and reasoning) then the BSAC will be forced to publish recommendations

----recommendations? (do you not mean rules)

No - BSAC make very few rules - for the reasons stated above.
I'm not making it up. The issue has been widely debated and statements have been made to that effect.
However many branches make local rules that accept BSAC recommendations in full.

-------Why not force the issue? I do not see a problem. If the answer is no then it is "No" (big deal) however as a member I should be able to ask the question and know one way or another.

Because right now you have the freedom to choose. Recommendations can be ignored at peril of a slapped wrist - unless the branch makes them into local rules.
If you force the issue then those of us who want to get involved in teaching our relatives the odd lesson (and get them assessed by someone else) will be forced to stop doing so when a rule is made (or when a recommendation made by BSAC is accepted as a Branch rule - my own branch accepts all BSAC recommendations as rules and to start making exceptions would be a nightmare).

Rules tend to be very "black and white" whilst recommendations allow shades of grey. I'd rather allow our instructors, DOs and branches the freedom to apply common sense to recommendations than restrict them with rules.


Clear enough?

John

No-one has disagreed with your statements...we have just pointed out that independent assessment is always preferable. It removes any doubt - whether that doubt is justified, spiteful, or just malicious.

One way of getting around the issue of a lone instructor in a branch is to ask the Regional Team for help in:

a) assessments - they could arrange for an instructor from the Regional Team, or another local branch to come along and give you some support by taking some of the assessments to verify that standards are being met (as I'm sure they would be!)
If there are relatives involved - these would be the perfect sample to put before the visiting instructor.

b) Many Regional Teams (if not all) have a system of support for aspiring instructors and would welcome some of the members of your club who wished to support your overworked lone instructor by getting trained themselves. Those who attended the Instructor Exam prep sessions in my Region had a 100% success rate with the exam.

To re-iterate ...
no-one said you can't
They just said that doing so could cause more problems than it was worth.

John