ACI

if someone does the old aci course and fails the ci exam on a number of occaisions how long can they go on being a aci because things change, also what can they do

if someone does the old aci course and fails the ci exam on a number of occaisions how long can they go on being a aci because things change, also what can they do

Keep taking the exam, get some prep from either your branch or contact your Regional Coach or anyone that is an ITS instructor, get them to watch and help and advise

You will always be able to teach under the direct supervision of a NQI, but not sign books, they would do that

Don't give up
JP

:=if someone does the old aci course and fails the ci exam on a number of occaisions how long can they go on being a aci because things change, also what can they do

Keep taking the exam, get some prep from either your branch or contact your Regional Coach or anyone that is an ITS instructor, get them to watch and help and advise

You will always be able to teach under the direct supervision of a NQI, but not sign books, they would do that

Don't give up
JP

its not me but we have a member who passed his aci about eight years ago and has failed the ci and the new scheme on a number of occasions but he still instructs without direct supervision and this causes me concearn i was wondering if there was a cut off point whereby the qualification needs re sitting

its not me but we have a member who passed his aci about eight years ago and has failed the ci and the new scheme on a number of occasions but he still instructs without direct supervision and this causes me concearn i was wondering if there was a cut off point whereby the qualification needs re sitting

Theres nothing documented about cut-offs i've ever seen. As long as you've done the IFC (or old ITC) and you're Dive Leader or above you don't need direct supervision in water to teach. If you're not happy with your member teaching then talk to your DO about it - its his/her ultimate decision who teaches in your club, and if they aren't up to standard then don't allow them to teach.
Of course, ideally you'll find out exactly why they keep failing their exams and try to help them to improve so that they are up to standard.

David

Theres nothing documented about cut-offs i've ever seen. As long as you've done the IFC (or old ITC) and you're Dive Leader or above you don't need direct supervision in water to teach. If you're not happy with your member teaching then talk to your DO about it - its his/her ultimate decision who teaches in your club, and if they aren't up to standard then don't allow them to teach.
Of course, ideally you'll find out exactly why they keep failing their exams and try to help them to improve so that they are up to standard.

David

I accept what you say and you are right about the issues surrounding his ability to teach, things change and if someone did a course some eight years ago and they are teaching the same methods that they were taught, surley this can not be right in the intertests of safty there must come a time when this diver should reattend the IFC what was then the ITC. The problem in relation to the DO is that he may be the DO. He is a very capable diver and I would never question his ability to dive but what I would question is the best practice which leads on to the duty of care that we all have not just the DO.
Garry

I accept what you say and you are right about the issues surrounding his ability to teach, things change and if someone did a course some eight years ago and they are teaching the same methods that they were taught, surley this can not be right in the intertests of safty there must come a time when this diver should reattend the IFC what was then the ITC. The problem in relation to the DO is that he may be the DO. He is a very capable diver and I would never question his ability to dive but what I would question is the best practice which leads on to the duty of care that we all have not just the DO.
Garry

Great divers, don't neccesarily make great Instructors and
visa-versa. Problem here may be the insular nature of club
training. Without at least some contact at training levels with
other clubs/courses, bad habits just get worse.

I can remember a few years back retraining a group who were
meant to be A1 accordinging to there Instructor. He was (not
surprisingly) the only NQI in the club and his practices had
been embedded in club training policy. Result everybody was
extremely weak on main skills.

Maybe you should have a word with your area/regional coach.
Voice your concerns and suggest a friendly visit during a pool
training session. At least then you might have an objective
(and authoritive) aprasal of what's going on.

TerryH

he should not be teaching unsupervised at all, he can't sign a log book..................the ACI is not an assessed qualification just proof of attendance
your branch should sort this out, if not you regional coach
jp

:=:=if someone does the old aci course and fails the ci exam on a number of occaisions how long can they go on being a aci because things change, also what can they do
:=
:=Keep taking the exam, get some prep from either your branch or contact your Regional Coach or anyone that is an ITS instructor, get them to watch and help and advise
:=
:=You will always be able to teach under the direct supervision of a NQI, but not sign books, they would do that
:=
:=Don't give up
:=JP

its not me but we have a member who passed his aci about eight years ago and has failed the ci and the new scheme on a number of occasions but he still instructs without direct supervision and this causes me concearn i was wondering if there was a cut off point whereby the qualification needs re sitting

he should not be teaching unsupervised at all, he can't sign a log book..................the ACI is not an assessed qualification just proof of attendance
your branch should sort this out, if not you regional coach
jp

:=:=if someone does the old aci course and fails the ci exam on a number of occaisions how long can they go on being a aci because things change, also what can they do
:=
:=Keep taking the exam, get some prep from either your branch or contact your Regional Coach or anyone that is an ITS instructor, get them to watch and help and advise
:=
:=You will always be able to teach under the direct supervision of a NQI, but not sign books, they would do that
:=
:=Don't give up
:=JP

its not me but we have a member who passed his aci about eight years ago and has failed the ci and the new scheme on a number of occasions but he still instructs without direct supervision and this causes me concearn i was wondering if there was a cut off point whereby the qualification needs re sitting

Not sure if its different with the old club instructor stuff, but under the new scheme a Dive Leader who has done an IFC can teach in open water without direct (ie in-water) supervision.Obviously they can't sign the QRBs or anything, but can do the lessons.

It does sort of make sense though if you think about it - even though they haven't been assessed as competent instructors, they are competent to lead unqualified divers, and so safety isn't a problem (otherwise they wouldn't be DL). Because of the 'on-site' supervision (ie an instructor is around) they can get help and advice if necessary, and the instructor needs to be happy that they are capable of teaching and that the students know everything they need to do before signing them off. The only 'risk' is that they may not teach effectively, and if the 'full' instructor sees the skills aren't up to scratch on the final dive (which in our club an OWI always does, whoever did the rest of the lessons) then the student gets more practice and teaching before being signed off.

Obviously in an ideal world everyone would be taught by an OWI all the time, but this world isn't ideal.

It all comes down to DO responsibility - they can decide whether the DL+IFC is competent to be taking lessons. If they can, it is very useful to a club, particularly eg University clubs who may be short of full instructors and who do lots of training. Personally I've found being at Uni and having no car makes it extremely difficult getting to instructor training events, although club diving with University minibuses happens almost every weekend. When i'm on holiday and at home where I actually have a car, the courses happen to be at the opposite end of the country, or its the summer and there aren't any ITS events (or very few anyway).

David

he should not be teaching unsupervised at all, he can't sign a log book..................the ACI is not an assessed qualification just proof of attendance
your branch should sort this out, if not you regional coach
jp
:=its not me but we have a member who passed his aci about eight years ago and has failed the ci and the new scheme on a number of occasions but he still instructs without direct supervision and this causes me concearn i was wondering if there was a cut off point whereby the qualification needs re sitting

they can lead a dive, they can act as safety cover, they can't teach without supervision, if i am wrong show me where it tells us that
jp

Not sure if its different with the old club instructor stuff, but under the new scheme a Dive Leader who has done an IFC can teach in open water without direct (ie in-water) supervision.Obviously they can't sign the QRBs or anything, but can do the lessons.

It does sort of make sense though if you think about it - even though they haven't been assessed as competent instructors, they are competent to lead unqualified divers, and so safety isn't a problem (otherwise they wouldn't be DL). Because of the 'on-site' supervision (ie an instructor is around) they can get help and advice if necessary, and the instructor needs to be happy that they are capable of teaching and that the students know everything they need to do before signing them off. The only 'risk' is that they may not teach effectively, and if the 'full' instructor sees the skills aren't up to scratch on the final dive (which in our club an OWI always does, whoever did the rest of the lessons) then the student gets more practice and teaching before being signed off.

Obviously in an ideal world everyone would be taught by an OWI all the time, but this world isn't ideal.

It all comes down to DO responsibility - they can decide whether the DL+IFC is competent to be taking lessons. If they can, it is very useful to a club, particularly eg University clubs who may be short of full instructors and who do lots of training. Personally I've found being at Uni and having no car makes it extremely difficult getting to instructor training events, although club diving with University minibuses happens almost every weekend. When i'm on holiday and at home where I actually have a car, the courses happen to be at the opposite end of the country, or its the summer and there aren't any ITS events (or very few anyway).

David


:=he should not be teaching unsupervised at all, he can't sign a log book..................the ACI is not an assessed qualification just proof of attendance
:=your branch should sort this out, if not you regional coach
:=jp
:=:=its not me but we have a member who passed his aci about eight years ago and has failed the ci and the new scheme on a number of occasions but he still instructs without direct supervision and this causes me concearn i was wondering if there was a cut off point whereby the qualification needs re sitting