Instructor training, how much?

Hi,

I am interested to know if anyone can pin down two facts for me.

1, When training to become a BSAC instructor, how much time, in total, is spent training the candidate how to teach? I am not talking about teaching experience within the branch..etc but how much mandatory instruction does an aspiring instructor get on HOW to teach.
2, If an aspiring instructor decides, they want the maximum instructor training possible (again, I am not talking about practice or assessment, these I see as POST training activates to practice the teaching skills ALREADY acquired)

The reason for my question is an article I have pending and I want to get all my facts straight. PADI require a 9-10 day, 8am to 10pm course on instruction technique and it does not seem to exist with the BSAC. As far as I can tell, the method is 'learn within the Branch' .....but who taught them???

I'd appreciate some informed feedback

Cheers,

Chris

Hi,

I am interested to know if anyone can pin down two facts for me.

1, When training to become a BSAC instructor, how much time, in total, is spent training the candidate how to teach? I am not talking about teaching experience within the branch..etc but how much mandatory instruction does an aspiring instructor get on HOW to teach.
2, If an aspiring instructor decides, they want the maximum instructor training possible (again, I am not talking about practice or assessment, these I see as POST training activates to practice the teaching skills ALREADY acquired)

The reason for my question is an article I have pending and I want to get all my facts straight. PADI require a 9-10 day, 8am to 10pm course on instruction technique and it does not seem to exist with the BSAC. As far as I can tell, the method is 'learn within the Branch' .....but who taught them???

I'd appreciate some informed feedback

The Route to becoming an OWI (open Water Instructor) with BSAC is as follows:

2 day Instructor Foundation Course (IFC) here you are taught the basics of Teaching in the classroom, and in the swimming pool

1 day OWIC (Open water instructor Course) The skills learnt on the IFC are then moved into open water.

You then need to pass the Theory Exam, Theory Instructor Exam, and Practical Instructor Exam.

In general, you need to do a reasonable amount of In branch practice to be able to pass these exams.

HTH
John

Chris,

here's the BSAC link you need

<a href="http://www.bsac.org/learn/its.htm" >http://www.bsac.org/learn/its.htm</a>

Regards,
Eric

Hi,

I am interested to know if anyone can pin down two facts for me.

1, When training to become a BSAC instructor, how much time, in total, is spent training the candidate how to teach? I am not talking about teaching experience within the branch..etc but how much mandatory instruction does an aspiring instructor get on HOW to teach.
2, If an aspiring instructor decides, they want the maximum instructor training possible (again, I am not talking about practice or assessment, these I see as POST training activates to practice the teaching skills ALREADY acquired)

The reason for my question is an article I have pending and I want to get all my facts straight. PADI require a 9-10 day, 8am to 10pm course on instruction technique and it does not seem to exist with the BSAC. As far as I can tell, the method is 'learn within the Branch' .....but who taught them???

I'd appreciate some informed feedback

Cheers,

Chris

Come on Chris, BSAC v ???? may I suggest you use the links shown, join the Biggest diving club in the world and be really informed. Something that the BSAC has been very good at for 50 years and still works.

Keep on fishin'

Alan

The reason for my question is an article I have pending and I want to get all my facts straight. PADI require a 9-10 day, 8am to 10pm course on instruction technique and it does not seem to exist with the BSAC. As far as I can tell, the method is 'learn within the Branch' .....but who taught them???

:=
:=I'd appreciate some informed feedback

The Route to becoming an OWI (open Water Instructor) with BSAC is as follows:

2 day Instructor Foundation Course (IFC) here you are taught the basics of Teaching in the classroom, and in the swimming pool

I know, I attended one, it was very interesting, an excellent criteria...but the reality was an hour in the pool were we got to demo one skill (15mins each) and had to present a 10 minute lecture. This was VERY instructive...but seemed a mere glimpse into the world of teaching. Additionally, I was concerned that this was attendance only, not a pass/fail...for an Instructor grade. This doesn't seem correct?

1 day OWIC (Open water instructor Course) The skills learnt on the IFC are then moved into open water.

So there is no more 'teaching how to teach' after the IFC weekend? This was my concern.

You then need to pass the Theory Exam, Theory Instructor Exam, and Practical Instructor Exam.

OK, but I have attended Instructor assessments with another agency and watched a couple of VERY poor divers get by in the limited confines of the assessment. Additionally, I have been informed that the practical assessment can be 'skipped if X amount of hours teaching are logged in the pool with the branch. Is this correct?

In general, you need to do a reasonable amount of In branch practice to be able to pass these exams.

What concerns me, is that you in the branch, trainee instructors do their practicing on novices and I would argue that it is the novices who need the best grounding.
What I see happening, is people are learning to teach, by teaching, rather then learning to teach THEN teaching. Surely this can't be the best way?

Thanks for taking the time John, and feel free to put me straight if I am in error.

Cheers, Chris.

Chris,

here's the BSAC link you need

http://www.bsac.org/learn/its.htm

Regards,
Eric

Thanks Eric,

:=Hi,
:=
:=I am interested to know if anyone can pin down two facts for me.
:=
:=1, When training to become a BSAC instructor, how much time, in total, is spent training the candidate how to teach? I am not talking about teaching experience within the branch..etc but how much mandatory instruction does an aspiring instructor get on HOW
Come on Chris, BSAC v ???? may I suggest you use the links shown.

O dear, sorry Alan, this is not an us V them thread and you won't burst into flames by typing PADI...perhaps you could call them "you know who" instead...Oh, no, someone already did that in a book :-)
join the Biggest diving club in the world and be really informed.
I am a member of BSAC, I enjoy my club life, it does not mean I can't have concerns about it.
Something that the BSAC has been very good at for 50 years and still works.

There are a lot of things that we did 50 years ago that we don't do today, 100 years ago we used to own 3/4 of the worlds land mass too....Sitting on laurels is never a good idea.

Keep on fishin'

I don't fish, I like to watch them...but if I had been, who got hooked....

Alan

Sitting on laurels is never a good idea.

Chris

I have to agree with you there. BSAC membership is falling, but the club has taken many measures to correct this.

Personally being used to Military Instructors courses i feel that the "Training the Trainer" time is short, but hey, its a hobby, we are not paid and we have to find the time.

I feel that the right balance of Quality and Atainability has to be there, and with the new ITS this appears to be in place.

I do have two big issues with it in that i feel it is a bit too introverted, but that is improving.

I do not agree with candidates for instructor exams not being told at the dive debrief what they have done wrong / failed for. But that is an issue that has been agreed by the various coaching scheme staff, who are putting the time and effort into making the training happen.

Regards

Paul

:=2 day Instructor Foundation Course (IFC) here you are taught the basics of Teaching in the classroom, and in the swimming pool

I know, I attended one, it was very interesting, an excellent criteria...but the reality was an hour in the pool were we got to demo one skill (15mins each) and had to present a 10 minute lecture. This was VERY instructive...but seemed a mere glimpse into the world of teaching. Additionally, I was concerned that this was attendance only, not a pass/fail...for an Instructor grade. This doesn't seem correct?

It's an _Assistant_ Instructor Grade. The instructor trainee is not allowed to sign off lessons and must be supervised by a nationally qualified instructor. Until the instructor trainee has completed the necessary assessments, for classroom and pool sessions, supervision is "on-site". For OW lessons, a SD/ADI must be supervised "in-water", whereas a DL/ADI may be supervised from the surface.

I am not particularly keen on the latter, as I don't see how adequate supervision can be carried out from the surface, however as DLs are qualified to take unqualified divers in the water, whereas the SD/ADI is not and can only teach novices, I suppose the balance is better than it could be.

I also suspect that if all ADI-instruction required "in water" supervision, those majority of those Uni clubs which have managed to survive the last couple of rounds of ITS rewriting would have to abandon entry-level instruction.

:=1 day OWIC (Open water instructor Course) The skills learnt on the IFC are then moved into open water.

So there is no more 'teaching how to teach' after the IFC weekend? This was my concern.

Much of it is repetition (and reinforcement) of what was taught on the IFC. I'm not sure that there is all that much more (in terms of principles) to teach after the IFC, though.

:=You then need to pass the Theory Exam, Theory Instructor Exam, and Practical Instructor Exam.
OK, but I have attended Instructor assessments with another agency and watched a couple of VERY poor divers get by in the limited confines of the assessment.

Which is why, within BSAC at least, there is an extra level of QC, in that all diving has to be sanctioned by the DO. You don't mention whether this other agency does a full week of assessments or assesses in a similar way to the BSAC.

Consider also the implications of (what I think) you are suggesting - that a week long course is preferable. For a commercial outfit, this may be true. For a non-commercial agency, this is hopeless. Few will take a week's leave in order to learn how to teach, so our instructor numbers will plummet, thus our trained-divers numbers will plummet and the Club will not be able to survive. Increasing the number of weekends required for instructor training will have a similar effect - we don't get paid to do it, we're giving up good dive-time to learn and be assessed on how to do it and there is a balance to be struck between the requirements that we impose on our would-be instructors and how much these same would-be instructors are prepared to give up to achieve the desired result.

Additionally, I have been informed that the practical assessment can be 'skipped if X amount of hours teaching are logged in the pool with the branch. Is this correct?

Chris - you need to go and read all the ITS documents on this site. If you had done so, you would have answers to most of your questions and would know that this is a hang-over from the previous evolution of instructor training. Then, after an Instructor Training Course, a DL/Assistant Club Instructor could sit a theory paper and a pool assessment to get qualified as a Club Instructor, who was then allowed to teach unsupervisied in open water. The OWIC could then be attended, the grade of OWI being awarded on the completion of 12 hours of logged open water instruction.

You might feel that this was something of an anus-over-elbow way of going about things, and you might well be right, which is why the OWIC now has to be attended before OW instruction may be conducted.

The option of "logging time" has been retained for existing Club Instructors, as they have already been assessed "in water", and asking them to do both the OWIC and the PIE would be asking them to give up two weekends, pay more and go through additional assessments to reach the same point that their peers did without such. It is not an option for those coming through the new training scheme.

:=In general, you need to do a reasonable amount of In branch practice to be able to pass these exams.

What concerns me, is that you in the branch, trainee instructors do their practicing on novices and I would argue that it is the novices who need the best grounding.

True, on both counts. This is why supervision is required and why the NQI has to be confident of the quality of teaching given before signing the lesson off.

What I see happening, is people are learning to teach, by teaching, rather then learning to teach THEN teaching. Surely this can't be the best way?

How do you learn to be a good diver? By doing the course, to learn the principles, then going diving to actually become a diver. The same is true of instruction. You learn the theory, you practise the theory in a controlled environment, you then put the theory into practise for real under supervision.

Thanks for taking the time John, and feel free to put me straight if I am in error.

For all the flaw that may exist in BSAC instructor training, don't you think that if there were serious issues with it, we'd be over-represented in the annual incident statistics? For a recreational agency, we don't do too badly, do we?

Just promise us that this isn't for a hatchet-job piece for any particular magazine?

Iain

Chris

If I understand you question correctly you are referring to the time INPUT for acquiring teaching skills, i.e. the amount of time attending lectures and under practical instruction.

I believe ALL the diving organisations have moved on from that thinking to concentrate and assess the OUTPUT, i.e. can the candidate actually teach safety.

Does it really matter if a candidate undergoes 5 continuous days of intensive teaching instruction then does an internship at a school before presenting themselves for assessment as an instructor. Or 4 days (2 on theory, 2 on practical skills) split over two weekends then acts as an assistant instructor in their branch before presenting themselves for assessment as an instructor.

It is not the amount of time spend under teaching instruction, but whether the candidate can actually teach. Would you expect a teacher to require the same time to learn how to teach diving skills as a ????? (don?t want to upset any industry).

Edward