Hog Loops what do you want.....from the moderators

[Ron MacRae]

Originally Posted by Adrian Kelland

Unfortunately it's human nature to remember who said what without paying much attention to what particular role they may be occupying if they have more than one. If Andy Moll posts something, do you look to see if he has posted as a member of council or not?

No I don't, but I wouldn't hold him to anything he said here regardless of which signature he was using. This is NOT the way for BSAC to officially tell us things. It's like chatter round the water cooler. This is a discussion forum where people discuss things and, hopefully come to some sort of understanding or agreement over time.

There has to be a difference between discussion and formal announcements of policy. This is not the place for formal announcements from BSAC.

Ron.

[Andy Moll (BSAC Council)]

Lucky you, hope it was diving

I am definitely not the person to ask how to navigate the thread cost me beers to demonstrate how not to navigate. (IMO nothing substantive in there since you left anyway)

Yes there will be a new thread stated when the response is ready, it is going through what I hope will be final checking before release

[Adrian Kelland]

Originally Posted by Ron MacRae

No I don't, but I wouldn't hold him to anything he said here regardless of which signature he was using. This is NOT the way for BSAC to officially tell us things. It's like chatter round the water cooler. This is a discussion forum where people discuss things and, hopefully come to some sort of understanding or agreement over time.

There has to be a difference between discussion and formal announcements of policy. This is not the place for formal announcements from BSAC.

Ron.

I agree that the forums are not THE way to tell us things officially, but they are A way. Why not use it along with all the other tools at BSAC's disposal? Just make sure the communication 'events' all happen at the same time for a given announcement.

A specific forum might be appropriate. One locked thread with one post for the announcement, with a link to a separate thread for the inevitable discussions.

You would still have to be careful of what you say around the water cooler. There is nothing magical about a water cooler or a forum or any other means of communication that absolves of responsibility.

Adrian

[Ron MacRae]

Originally Posted by Adrian Kelland

You would still have to be careful of what you say around the water cooler. There is nothing magical about a water cooler or a forum or any other means of communication that absolves of responsibility.

Yes you are correct. I disagree with nothing you said.

I just find it very sad that the NDO isn't allowed to discuss this topic with us. This is forcing us into an them & us situation. If he can't discuss then he can't explain. As I said earlier the whole point of discussion is to formulate policy so that it is good, not defend it afterwards if it's good or bad.

IMO BSAC council/NDC missed a good chance to kill off this animosity 4 months ago by not becomming involved in discussion.

I get this terrible feeling of Déjà vu.

Ron.

[Steve Summers]

Originally Posted by Andy Moll (BSAC Council)

No I am not saying that at all

what I said was



The reality is the NDO is working to the same requirement and that is to follow our communications policy as set and agreed by Council from the MarComms group, Marketing and Communications.

Please if you have a question ask it in a less assumptive and inflammatory way, it does not help, all that was needed was, “Who has asked for you all to keep quiet and why?”, and the answer is as given by Janos below and by me in the paragraph above.

Hi Andy,

inflammatory is in the eye of the beholder and I guess dependant on which side of the fence you sit on. FTR and IMVHO silence isn't golden and whether you are following an agreed policy or not this debacle should have been given special status and commented on fully by the NDO/tech group leader. Anyway do letters from the NDO to Dive and Diver magazines class as breaking your communications policy or did he have councils blessing?

Rather than accuse previously loyal members of being inflammatory you should look as to why some members are so angry and disillusioned with the NDO/NDC?

As I previously said to you this edict has changed the broad church ethos of BSAC for me and many others, anyone connected with it's creation should be thoroughly ashamed for their part.

[MattS]

Originally Posted by GaryC

Is there any way of changing this to be readable?

Click the Display Modes link and select linear view.

[ChristianG]

Originally Posted by Ron MacRae

This is NOT the way for BSAC to officially tell us things. It's like chatter round the water cooler. This is a discussion forum where people discuss things and, hopefully come to some sort of understanding or agreement over time.

There has to be a difference between discussion and formal announcements of policy. This is not the place for formal announcements from BSAC.

I quite agree.

My concern, my very serious concern, however is that the next official statement will be yet another edict making discussion superfluous. If, if, that is how it turns out I suspect that an even bigger stink will ensue than the present one, something best avoided, to put it ever so mildly.

TPTB have now had the benefit of some three months' worth of viewpoints on the issue some of which make a great deal of sense and some of which are somewhat dubious. However, with that amount of hindsight they might even be able to present a (relatively) credible defense of their actions. Sadly I suspect that it would be ineffective in the long term.

I repeat: IF!

Alternatively if they present "an" argument, but without edict and ask for opinions they would probably be able to hear the collective sigh of relief from their fairy tower pie-in-the sky - from which they need to permanently descend smartish-like.

Please, I am talking generalities, I am not in the least trying to be specific about anyone or anything.

[DarrenA]

Originally Posted by Steve Summers

Anyway do letters from the NDO to Dive and Diver magazines class as breaking your communications policy or did he have councils blessing?

I found that strange...given the content of the magazine response it couldn't have been sanctioned (at least I really hope it wasn't).

[bigjo]

Originally Posted by bythesea

You know what Janos, go and amuse yourself some other way I can't be bothered with your inane games.

This is the kind of thing I would like to see the Moderators remove from consultative threads from the NDC. They serve no purpose within such discussion and could be dealt with by those members mailing each other directly

[bigjo]

It strikes me that this thread has wandered a bit from a request for feedback from the moderaters to a further discussion about the rights and wrongs of who said what to who and the Great Hog Loop debate that is at the forfront of about 1% of the BSACs memberships minds.

Matt, my twopenneth for what its worth is that the Mods should delete anything that wanders off topic in any consultative thread started by Council and invite the poster to start a new thread if they wish to continue with there line of thought.