body mass index

[jb1962]

Hi All.

I had a dive medical because I had an angina attack two years ago and when I went to get a medical the dr told me he would pass me as I only had a slight high blood pressure but i needed to get fitter .http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif
he then changed his mind and said that because i stand 5 ft 7 and weigh 16 and half stone he did not think that I could swim against a one knot tide ! as I have a high bmi .
So now I have to try to lose this weight and it is not because of eating or boozing .http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif

So has any one been told they can not dive because of the bmi they have.http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

all mail will be read.

thanks.

[Mike Halligan]

Hi All.

I had a dive medical because I had an angina attack two years ago and when I went to get a medical the dr told me he would pass me as I only had a slight high blood pressure but i needed to get fitter.
he then changed his mind and said that because i stand 5 ft 7 and weigh 16 and half stone he did not think that I could swim against a one knot tide ! as I have a high bmi .
So now I have to try to lose this weight and it is not because of eating or boozing .
So has any one been told they can not dive because of the bmi they have.

all mail will be read.

thanks.

I am not medically qualified.

Was this a medical referee? There is much in medical clearance after a negative self-declaration that is down to judgement and it seems to me that the doctor expressed his doubts fairly clearly.

BMI of 30 was the standard obtaining before the change to self-declaration. I guess it is still a valid rule of thumb, though whether it is binding only a referee could say. The medical section of the main BSAC site contains the relevant chart, in which you measure 39 lbs over (or 7 inches short).

If you've a history of angina, then I'd say it is in your interest and that of your potential buddy for you to reduce your BMI.

[Nigel Hewitt]

I had a dive medical because I had an angina attack two years ago and when I went to get a medical the dr told me he would pass me as I only had a slight high blood pressure but i needed to get fitter .http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif
he then changed his mind and said that because i stand 5 ft 7 and weigh 16 and half stone he did not think that I could swim against a one knot tide ! as I have a high bmi.
I normally try to be encouraging on matters like this but angina and a high BMI is not a happy combo.

I've done a heart attack and, frankly, it ruins your day and it would suck be in the water. If they'll pass you for getting your weight down you're on a good deal. Go for it.

[jb1962]

I am not medically qualified.

Was this a medical referee? There is much in medical clearance after a negative self-declaration that is down to judgement and it seems to me that the doctor expressed his doubts fairly clearly.

BMI of 30 was the standard obtaining before the change to self-declaration. I guess it is still a valid rule of thumb, though whether it is binding only a referee could say. The medical section of the main BSAC site contains the relevant chart, in which you measure 39 lbs over (or 7 inches short).

If you've a history of angina, then I'd say it is in your interest and that of your potential buddy for you to reduce your BMI.



Yes I found a medical referee at one of the medical clinics I once belonged to.
He read that the surgen made it clear I had not had angina attack...but some kind of stress attack that gave me chest pain.

He said I should lose three stone and get fitter before diving.
the problem is I can only lose half a stone and thats with walking ..no beer,little food in take and I can not see why my weight does not drop.

I so much want to dive as it is really great to see coral life up close,but can not see this becoming fact unless I find a way to lose the weight for safety sake .

John.

[tony J]

Hi All.

I had a dive medical because I had an angina attack two years ago and when I went to get a medical the dr told me he would pass me as I only had a slight high blood pressure but i needed to get fitter .http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif
he then changed his mind and said that because i stand 5 ft 7 and weigh 16 and half stone he did not think that I could swim against a one knot tide ! as I have a high bmi .
So now I have to try to lose this weight and it is not because of eating or boozing .http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif

So has any one been told they can not dive because of the bmi they have.http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

all mail will be read.

thanks.
Remember the BMI is just a simple indication (just quick and dirty which can have mistakes if you have high muscle bulk).
5ft 7 16.5 stone is a BMI of 36, which seems high (obese is 30, overweight is 25) unless you incredibly athletic.
If a referee has given you advice then either

1. follow it
2. find another referee who agrees with you and hope you are lucky.

No finds losing weight is easy, but unless you have an underlying medical problem you should be able to lose weight. have you tried ?

1. Joining a weight loss program
2. keeping a food and drink diary
3. counting calories.
4. admitting you are overweight (ouch)

Good luck, weight loss is not easy (even though it is just about the balance of the energy in energy out calculation) and keeping the weight off is also hard. For most of us it means a change in lifestyle. If you have not succeeded before, you probably need to try something new.
If you metabolism slows as you age and your income increases it is a double whammy.

Losing weight should also reduce the strain on your heart so is probably worth it.

Tony

[MarkM]

I have a BMI of 33, yet I run long distance, i.e. the London Marathon for the last 4 years. I passed my HSE medical as I easily passed the fitness test, I carried on talking while I was doing it that put them off. My heart rate and blood pressure were all normal.

I have a friend who has a BMI of 37 and has no body fat at all, he is a professional body builder.

The BMI was brought out during WWII to find out if anyone was mal-nourished due to food rationing, it doesn't allow for build or muscle bulk.

If you are genuinely overweight a combination of exercise and diet will reduce body fat.

If you're into maths heres some nice little calcs for you........

1lb of body fat = 3,600 calories
You need 12 calories per pound of body mass to survive a sedantary lifestyle
Exercise that increases your heart rate to 65% of your max (220-age) will burn roughly your body weight in lb's (x5) calories per hour

So if you went for a run for an hour you would burn up 1155 calories.
You need 2772 calories to survive withour exercise, so reduce your intake by either a small amount or none if you are going to exercise reguarily.
Run 3 times a week, and eat 2000 calories a day is a deficit of 8869 calories per week, equivalent to 2.46lb's.

While exercising you will generate muscle, this is good, it's metabolic and burns more calories. To start weight loss will be minimal as your body restores any previous muscle bulk you have had before, we never lose it, it just shrinks. The expansion of muscle is why weight loss starts slowly.

These are only guidelines which I use from information I have found (Oxford book of sports injuries) or been told by professionals. If in doubt ask a professional yourself.

[NickBCotswold]

Sorry to butt into this interesting thread, but wanted to say "thanks Mark" - i learnt quite a lot from that (a regular gym goer and struggle on the tread mill 3 times a week!!!!)

Nick B

[tony J]

I have a BMI of 33, yet I run long distance, i.e. the London Marathon for the last 4 years. I passed my HSE medical as I easily passed the fitness test, I carried on talking while I was doing it that put them off. My heart rate and blood pressure were all normal..

Mark,

you appear to the bit I referred to as

"(obese is 30, overweight is 25) unless you incredibly athletic."

what is ashame is that the unfit use this as an excuse aswell (bit like citing the 90 year smoker showing smoking it is ok, they are a not a 'normal' case in the world of statistical distributions)

Incidently, I've a BMI of 18.7 (6ft 4) , but I'm not particularly fit, which I why I treat BMI as a first order indicator and a body fat measurement along with a fitness evaluation as a better order measure.

Tony

[toptribefan]

(obese is 30, overweight is 25)

Does that mean I'm lucky to still be breathing with my BMI of 42?

I HATE this measurement.

For the record. Rugby training tomorrow. Reffing rugby wednesday. Rugby training thursday. Playing rugby Saturday. Running touch on Sunday (Army U23 v Cambridge Uni @ aldershot if anyone is interested). Meanwhile still needing to fit in the gym and pool.

Like I said I HATE this measurement.

[tony J]

Does that mean I'm lucky to still be breathing with my BMI of 42?

I HATE this measurement.

For the record. Rugby training tomorrow. Reffing rugby wednesday. Rugby training thursday. Playing rugby Saturday. Running touch on Sunday (Army U23 v Cambridge Uni @ aldershot if anyone is interested). Meanwhile still needing to fit in the gym and pool.

Like I said I HATE this measurement.
And i' don't like selective quoting ;-)

I wrote "(obese is 30, overweight is 25) unless you incredibly athletic." as this is a flawed measurement for the very muscly and fit.

I think your description described your self as incredibly athletic. The national average is probably not one aerobic activity per week.

If I lose 1 kilo, I get classified as "underweight" which is also a bit weird.
But this measurement works for 99% of the population, and those that it does not work for can have a body fat test.

Tony

[toptribefan]

Apologies if it seemed I was having a go at you - it was aimed at the god forsaken index

[Steve in Sharm]

Apologies if it seemed I was having a go at you - it was aimed at the god forsaken index

I totally agree with the BMI being ****ers..... I was told I was obese with a BMI of 30.5 - I laughed.

6 foot 2, 17 1/2 stone with a 46 inch chest, former Army swimmer, keen football and rugby player and very keen cyclist, even with a knackered knee I was still running military fitness tests faster than some 18yr olds coming into the army.....

OK, that was then, now I'm just a fat old slob :D

[tomhorton]

Hi John

I am currently studying a degree in sports coaching and performance analysis specialsing in sports nutrition. The first thing I would say like pretty much everyone else on here the BMI tests don't mean jack! What you need s to get a body scale test ths will beak your weight down into two components fat mass and fat free mass, you wan't to be aiming to get your fat mass at less than 20% of your total weight.
There are varous ways of doing this test, the most accurate is pressureless weighing but this s hard to get done and very expensive. But you can also get bio-electrical scales that send electrical pulses through your body and depending upon the resstance they face can work out a reasonably accurate body fat percentage for you.

If you find that your fat percentage is too high then in order to lose it you need to ensure you create a calorie defecit. The most important thing you should do is NOT! stop eating this will actually slow your metabolism down and reduce the amounrt of calories you are burning. You should try and eat 6 small meals a day, You want to aim to keep your fat intake at less than 20% of your total calorie intake protein at 30% and carbohydrates at 50% this is pretty simple to work out everything you buy should have nutritonal quidelines on it all you need to know is that 1g of protein is 4calories, 1g of carbohydrate s 4calories and 1g of fat is 9calories. For example is something is 100kC and has 1g of fat then it is 9% fat. Just ignore the the labels that say things like less than 3% fat because they just work off weight something can have only a few grams of fat but because fat has more calories per gram it can actually be a higher percentage of the total calores.

Just remember that losing weight succesfully can be a long process you will see little results on the scales in your first couple of weeks as fat gets burned and muscle grows because muscle weighs more than fat but soon you should start to lose weight aim for no more than 2lb per week otherwise you start burning muscle aswell as fat.

Finally always check with your doctor before startng any new exercise program as we don't want you to cause yourself any injury. It may be adviseable to stay away from weight bearing activity at the start of your trainng and do thngs such as swimming and cycling as these put less strain on your joints.

Hope this helps and if you want any help or advice then don't hesitate to contact me.

Tom

[MarkM]

you appear to the bit I referred to as

"(obese is 30, overweight is 25) unless you incredibly athletic."
I did see that, but the BMI doesn't allow for it.

I notice that several international rugby players have been declared clinically obese now too!

As to those scales the most affordable make are Tanita, I have the earlier model that just work out resistance and give you a %, I also now have the newer version that checks yours capacitance and can work out your body water % as well. My fat% is currently high at around 22, I'm working on it after injury stopped me exercising for a while.

[Nigel Hewitt]

I did see that, but the BMI doesn't allow for it.

I notice that several international rugby players have been declared clinically obese now too!The most amusing fact is that some of the most super-fit athletes in the world are Sumo wrestlers. Would you like to pick up a 200Kg sumo wrestler that didn't want to be picked up and drop him outside the ring? Routine for a top Yokozuna cleaning up the beginners in the starting bouts of a championship.

What's 230Kgs/2m in BMI anyway?

[toptribefan]

What's 230Kgs/2m in BMI anyway?

Its an inspiring 57.5:eek: :eek: :eek:

the average weight in the top sumo division two years ago was 155kgs though with only the REALLY big guys breaking 200kgs. This puts the sumo BMI somewhat closer to mine at around 42.:(

[IainC]

With regard to sumo wrestlers. sadly all is not good

The negative effects of the sumo lifestyle become dangerously apparent later in life. Sumo wrestlers have a life expectancy of between 60 and 65, more than 10 years shorter than the average Japanese male. They often develop diabetes and high blood pressure, and are prone to heart attacks. The excessive intake of alcohol can lead to liver problems and the stress on their joints can cause arthritis. Recently, the standards of weight gain are becoming less strict, in an effort to improve the overall health of the wrestlers.[13][14] The average height of sumo wrestlers is around 178 cm.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumo

Nothing to do with the BMI argument (a agree it is a crude estimate though), but sumo is not that good an example of fitness!

Iain.

[jb1962]

Hi Tom and every one else.
I have a copy of my medical records and here is the list the angiogram surgeon
wrote to my gp.
Mild desease in the distal part of mid segment , right coronary artery proximal.
But I only take the 75 mg asprin and a statin at night I did not have a stent.
And I am trying hard to lose the weight I have cut down on too much meat and eat more veg and low fat foods.
So does this mean my bmi will be safe for me to learn to scuba?...god knows.


regards.
john.

[Nigel Hewitt]

But I only take the 75 mg asprin and a statin at night I did not have a stent.
And I am trying hard to lose the weight I have cut down on too much meat and eat more veg and low fat foods.
So does this mean my bmi will be safe for me to learn to scuba?...god knows.Well I do the aspirin and the statin plus a beta blocker that is thought to be bad for divers and I had a real heart attack which cost me heart muscle and have a stent to fix up the messed up artery.

They treadmilled me a couple of years ago and constantly running up hill wired to an ECG with somebody trying to take your blood pressure as you run is a bit daunting, especially as they increase the slope and the pace every three minutes.

However on the strength of that I'm still diving. I'm 57 so you can't be worse than I am other than the weight but I'm 5ft10 and 12st6. Go for it.

[jb1962]

[QUOTE=Nigel Hewitt]

They tread milled me a couple of years ago and constantly running up hill wired to an ECG with somebody trying to take your blood pressure as you run is a bit daunting, especially as they increase the slope and the pace every three minutes.

Hi Nigel.
I had the same test and I came close to falling of the ruddy thing as I was not told that 1: it goes faster every three minutes and 2: that it climes up with every three minutes.
Good to hear your still diving.

Regards.
john.

[jb1962]

Hi John

I am currently studying a degree in sports coaching and performance analysis specialsing in sports nutrition. The first thing I would say like pretty much everyone else on here the BMI tests don't mean jack! What you need s to get a body scale test ths will beak your weight down into two components fat mass and fat free mass, you wan't to be aiming to get your fat mass at less than 20% of your total weight.
There are varous ways of doing this test, the most accurate is pressureless weighing but this s hard to get done and very expensive. But you can also get bio-electrical scales that send electrical pulses through your body and depending upon the resstance they face can work out a reasonably accurate body fat percentage for you.

If you find that your fat percentage is too high then in order to lose it you need to ensure you create a calorie defecit. The most important thing you should do is NOT! stop eating this will actually slow your metabolism down and reduce the amounrt of calories you are burning. You should try and eat 6 small meals a day, You want to aim to keep your fat intake at less than 20% of your total calorie intake protein at 30% and carbohydrates at 50% this is pretty simple to work out everything you buy should have nutritonal quidelines on it all you need to know is that 1g of protein is 4calories, 1g of carbohydrate s 4calories and 1g of fat is 9calories. For example is something is 100kC and has 1g of fat then it is 9% fat. Just ignore the the labels that say things like less than 3% fat because they just work off weight something can have only a few grams of fat but because fat has more calories per gram it can actually be a higher percentage of the total calores.

Just remember that losing weight succesfully can be a long process you will see little results on the scales in your first couple of weeks as fat gets burned and muscle grows because muscle weighs more than fat but soon you should start to lose weight aim for no more than 2lb per week otherwise you start burning muscle aswell as fat.

Finally always check with your doctor before startng any new exercise program as we don't want you to cause yourself any injury. It may be adviseable to stay away from weight bearing activity at the start of your trainng and do thngs such as swimming and cycling as these put less strain on your joints.

Hope this helps and if you want any help or advice then don't hesitate to contact me.

Tom

Hi Tom.

Well I have sent you a post with no reply yet...lol.
So I have my eating under control and feel better for it.
But what exercise can I do to build up my fitness .

Cheers.

John.

[Diver@50]

If you are unfit, it is advisable to first seek the advice of your GP before starting any fitness regime. Swimming is very good exercise, as is fast walking. It maybe a good idea to join a local gym, why a trained specialist could customise a work out specifically for you.

[mochynhapus]

I just bought "Fitness for Divers" by Cameron L Martz from Amazon. It seems very good on the physiology, and you can also get an e- version so you can print off exercises.

[mikendive]

BMI it's not deal in your case...very import your functional capasity(activity-fitness)...My Friend tech-diving instructor have a nick-name-Shrek))) i hope you are understands me...he's big/fat man, but every day he's diving(tech-diving!!!)please believes me his BMI not bothering him:)

[scubanutter]

Hi All.

I had a dive medical because I had an angina attack two years ago and when
he then changed his mind and said that because i stand 5 ft 7 and weigh 16 and half stone he did not think that I could swim against a one knot tide ! as I have a high bmi .

thanks.

There's nothing wrong with that - I'm 6ft 4 and 20 stone. BMI is not a measure of your ability to swim in a current so I find that a poor excuse. My BMI says I am clinically obese - its nothing but a scale. It doesn't take into account anything - for example - I have high bone density that pushes my weight up higher than people would expect.

[Ron Evans]

for example - I have high bone density that pushes my weight up higher than people would expect.

If you have high bone density you have a condition called osteopetrosis. Perhaps you mean that you have a large frame, with bigger bones than smaller people?

[bigjo]

Hi All.

I had a dive medical because I had an angina attack two years ago and when I went to get a medical the dr told me he would pass me as I only had a slight high blood pressure but i needed to get fitter .http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif
he then changed his mind and said that because i stand 5 ft 7 and weigh 16 and half stone he did not think that I could swim against a one knot tide ! as I have a high bmi .
So now I have to try to lose this weight and it is not because of eating or boozing .http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif

So has any one been told they can not dive because of the bmi they have.http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif

all mail will be read.

thanks.

When I started to dive I was lucky enough to have a medical referee in the club I joined. He restricted me to pool training only because I had a high BMI. shortly after this BSAC changed its requirements and said that BMIs were no longer relevant in a dive medical, so I was given a clean bill of health to continue training.
I would always recommend trying to reduce your body fat and taking regular exercise to stay fit and healthy regardless of whether you dive or not.
Incidently, I still have a high BMI and have been struggling with my weight ever since I was a child, but I am generally regarded as being quite fit, and fitter than some of my fat free mates who put on no weight at all despite stuffing copious amounts of bacon butties and alcohol down their necks whenever possible. B*st*rds

[Ron Evans]

Just to cheer you up a little - those skinny blokes who eat everything but stay slim can, apart from annoying the likes of you and me, still have potentially lethally high blood fat levels. High blood fat levels correlate poorly with body fat bulk. If you want to get at them, suggest that they have the fasting lipid profiles checked - a low fat diet will wipe the bacon off their smug faces!.

Overweight carries penalties in terms of reduced life expectancy, but the actual date you die depends on genetics and lifestyle, as well as weight. There is also a luck element. You can't alter genetics, but you can keep your weight reasonable, and regular exercise will help you feel good, as well as prolonging life.

[Mike Halligan]

You can't alter genetics, but you can keep your weight reasonable, and regular exercise will help you feel good, as well as prolonging life.

I heard it didn't actually prolong life, you merely thought it had.