View Full Version : sea marshall or not?
greenpeace
22-09-2007, 19:07
hi there all, i'm just wondering if anyone has any usefull tips when it comes to purchasing a lost diver beacon. Is the sea marshall the only and best one out there? plus which one, the SMRS8-LD or the PLB8-LD? i have no idea. any advice would be much obliged.
hi there all, i'm just wondering if anyone has any usefull tips when it comes to purchasing a lost diver beacon. Is the sea marshall the only and best one out there? plus which one, the SMRS8-LD or the PLB8-LD? i have no idea. any advice would be much obliged.
Sea Marshal yes this one EPIRB PLB8-LD SOS 121.5 MHz Beacon is recommended for divers.
I understand they don't sell direct but the recommended price off their web site is £216
look here
http://www.seamarshall.com/exhibitions.php
now whether it works I cannot tell you 1st hand - only that I carry one and hope I never have to find out but I can say they have given me excellent customer service - last year I contacted them had a chat and they quoted something like £20 or £30 for new batteries, after a couple of weeks of them having the unit I was told that the problem wasn't the batteries and I needed a new unit!!!!
This was done at the quoted price.:)
I don't know if there is a better one but it give me peace of mind that I have it - as it make your heart drop when you surafce and there is nothing there but sea!!
Steven
Ken Oakes
22-09-2007, 22:31
Hi there, The 121.5MHz & 243MHz frequencies are soon to be disconntinued, 1st Feb 2009, see MCA leaflet Emergency Alerting - present and future. MCA recommend the 406MHz PLB's but as of yet there is no submersible ones avaible as yet!
Hi there, The 121.5MHz & 243MHz frequencies are soon to be disconntinued, 1st Feb 2009, see MCA leaflet Emergency Alerting - present and future. MCA recommend the 406MHz PLB's but as of yet there is no submersible ones avaible as yet!
No no no no no.
Automatic scanning of 121.5 is being discontinued. However if the skipper is aware that you have a PLB that operates on 121.5 do you really think that the CG are going to say: "Nope. Sorry. But although we could look for that missing diver on a frequency we know he's transmitting we're not going to bother." Tell the skipper beforehand and you'll be ok.
I would go for the PLB8. It's designed for divers. However I'd also say that I know a couple of people who have bought one and it's leaked. Sea Marshall replaced it FOC a few times until they got one that worked. So check it regularly.
Janos
greenpeace
23-09-2007, 20:43
that all sounds only slightly resuring, i've just seen a personal EPIRB made by Sartech and their GPS EPIRB. Looks like you have to buy a canister to go with these for diving. Have you, do you know anyone that dives with these expensive alternatives? As always any help or wisdom much appreciated.
that all sounds only slightly resuring, i've just seen a personal EPIRB made by Sartech and their GPS EPIRB. Looks like you have to buy a canister to go with these for diving. Have you, do you know anyone that dives with these expensive alternatives? As always any help or wisdom much appreciated.
No. Many people feel they are too bulky.
However I know many people who have a Sea Marshall PLB8. If you want to be reassured telephone the Coastguard and ask them. They are all real people who are more than happy to talk to divers on the phone, or indeed in person at Diveshows etc.
Janos
Personally, I'd still take a flag and a strobe light and possibly a reflective thing (CD or similar).
How do you know if the thing is going to work when you need it?
Personally, I'd still take a flag and a strobe light and possibly a reflective thing (CD or similar).
How do you know if the thing is going to work when you need it?
I'd go with all those and then in the water for an hour or so with no contact I'd activate the device!!!
wouldn't you??
I'd go with all those and then in the water for an hour or so with no contact I'd activate the device!!!
wouldn't you??
Yes, I suppose I would if I had an EPIRB.
TBH, the only boat diving I do is off charter boats and, given the skippers knowledge of tides and currents in the Channel and the fact that the CG is informed of the dive and the radio and the mobile and ............ well, I don't see the need for me.
Having said that I do know that lengthy waits on the surface for a boat pick up can be unpleasant in rough conditions or hanging onto a shot line once the tide is running can be a strain. Were I diving from a club boat (for example) in a new area then maybe I would give the matter more consideration.
AIUI the only time you'll know if it works or not is in an emergency and the problems with keeping charged batteries and seals in tact have never made them something I have seriously considered. I already take more than enough stuff diving. Did I introduce myself? I am Mr Christmas Tree! :):)
I've got one. I'm on my 3rd (but they've changed the design now). They used to leak oil from the manual self-test button but they've got rid of that altogether. I just tell the skipper I've got one. I also carry:
Torch
Whistle
DSMB with SOLAS tape on it
SOLAS tape can be had for a tenner of eBay and sticks like hell to your blob. Needs to be spotless first then once stuck on, left under a pile of books with a weightbelt on top for 48 hours.
Much easier than carrying Dean Martin's Greatest Hits.
greenpeace
24-09-2007, 16:04
ok guys, just got off the phone to the coast guard and they reckomended the
Mcmurdo 406 GPS with a water proof case. Sounds bulky and pricey. I feel as though i've opened up a can of worms.
That's a GPS doo hicky. Squirts out your GPS position on the transponder which automatically presses the "ooooooooooo" button at the coastguard. Nice of you can a) afford one and b) find somewhere to stash it on your kit
That's a GPS doo hicky. Squirts out your GPS position on the transponder which automatically presses the "ooooooooooo" button at the coastguard. Nice of you can a) afford one and b) find somewhere to stash it on your kit
You don't really need a GPS transponder, a Personal Locator Beacon is adequate for diving.
GPS things are great if you are out to sea in a boat and it sinks, you set it off and someone starts looking for you. As divers we can pretty much guarantee someone is already looking for us (if not the skipper is going to get a kicking if they do find me) so you can skip the "tell someone to start looking for me" which is what a PLB does, it just makes it easier to find you.
PLB's are naturally a lot cheaper than GPS transponders.
The DPO and I always dive with our Sea Marshall PLB's
greenpeace
24-09-2007, 20:25
if this is the case and i don't need the GPS function, then the sea marshall would easily sufice, as all i'd need to do would be to let my dive boat know i''ve got one and what frequency to look for me on. Plus its a bit smaller and half the price Only the built-in GPS receiver will provide latitude and longitude coordinates to give a position to within typically 100 feet, anywhere in the world! Which i does sound very very atractive.
if this is the case and i don't need the GPS function, then the sea marshall would easily sufice, as all i'd need to do would be to let my dive boat know i''ve got one and what frequency to look for me on. Plus its a bit smaller and half the price Only the built-in GPS receiver will provide latitude and longitude coordinates to give a position to within typically 100 feet, anywhere in the world! Which i does sound very very atractive.
Are you really going to be so lost that you need a position "anywhere in the world"? Personally when I dive I can pretty much guarantee that I will surface within five miles of where I went in and a SAR helicopter is going to take about five seconds to find my in that area with a PLB
Andy Nye
25-09-2007, 22:42
From my notes for a Coastguard exam plus advice from a EPIRB supplier
The beacons are commonly referred to by the frequencies on which they operate: 121.5 MHz, 243 MHz 406 MHz and INMARSAT L Band. The INMARSAT system is scheduled to be phased ( As in the satellite will no longer be programmed to scan the frequecnies) out by the end of 2006 and the 121.5 and 243 beacons by the end of January 2009.
The MCA have responsibility for maritime 121.5 MHz and 406 MHz alerts on EPIRBs, except where the EPIRB is known to be fitted to a military vessel when SAR action becomes the responsibility of the military.
243 MHz is a military frequency.
Any alert on 243 MHz only will be regarded as a military incident,
Using the appropriate distance as the radius (2.7 nm for 406 MHz, and 10.8 nm for 121.5 MHz), a circle is drawn around the Last Known Position.
If you still want further information , our coastguard station at Falmouth can give further details
I've got one. I'm on my 3rd (but they've changed the design now). They used to leak oil from the manual self-test button but they've got rid of that altogether. I just tell the skipper I've got one. I also carry:
Torch
Whistle
DSMB with SOLAS tape on it
SOLAS tape can be had for a tenner of eBay and sticks like hell to your blob. Needs to be spotless first then once stuck on, left under a pile of books with a weightbelt on top for 48 hours.
Much easier than carrying Dean Martin's Greatest Hits.
hi woz
what exacty is solas tape??? some kind or radar reflecting tape or what??
Steven
hi woz
what exacty is solas tape??? some kind or radar reflecting tape or what??
Yes. Safety Of Life At Sea.
Have a google.
Janos
Janos
the sea marshal ones are smaller than a packet of smokes.
they have a life of 5 years, and they work on 121.5 Mhz this is the first i have heard about the stopping of the signal in 09.....
I have 2 one for me and my dive buddy.
i have dived to 60m and when tested still works fine.
216£ is not a lot of money for your life.
i think they should become standard for every diver.
remember the 12 divers lost in brothers in 04, 13.5 hours 45 km away from the start point.
funny the boat and passangers got them as standard issue when they returned back to port AFTER the accident.
and the divers in Elphinstone, i bet the 4 who died wish they had them....
Buy one, there are different ones on the market but i would go with the sea marshal
I've got one of the older Sea Marshals - not had a problem with it, but then I've never tried it in anger....
In addition to flag, torch, whistle, CD, DSMB, I carry a buddy line, so that I can clip onto a shot or clip on to my buddy at the surface - saves all that effort of hanging on to the shot or trying to stay together, which can be tiring
Nigel Hewitt
09-11-2007, 10:59
I have an old one.
People I dive with know this.
The new ones are pretty good though, if a bit large.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7082755.stm
Hi there, The 121.5MHz & 243MHz frequencies are soon to be disconntinued, 1st Feb 2009, see MCA leaflet Emergency Alerting - present and future. MCA recommend the 406MHz PLB's but as of yet there is no submersible ones avaible as yet!
Have you got a link for this article, I cannot find it on their website. Thanks
John
:confused:
Alex Liddon
18-11-2007, 14:24
121.5 MHz is a homing frequency.
The PLB emmits its signal which can be detected by Search and Rescue units like Helicopters and ALL Weather Lifeboats.
They can then use Direction Finding equipment to locate the beacon.
That is if they know to look for it. you have not told the boat skipper you carry one, he can't inform the coastguard, who can't inform the ... you get the idea
At no point does it send a signal to a satalite.
Ken Oakes
18-11-2007, 16:10
Have you got a link for this article, I cannot find it on their website. Thanks
John
:confused:
Hi John, the MCA leaflet titled Emergency Alerting - Present and Future, printed August 2004 does not seem to be available on their website however try this from www.cospas-sarsat.org. http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/DocumentsRSeries/R010OCT06.pdf. This is the Russian agency responsible for the satellite and associated system.
Here is a direct link to the Sea Marshall website with in formation on PLB (http://www.seamarshall.com)'s, Man overboard systems and more... Hope it's useful to you? http://www.seamarshall.com
the mcmurdo seesm to d othe job :-)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/scotland/north_east/7599683.stm
I went to a talk by seamarshall, it makes a lot of sense, my only concern is it not being sufficiently diver proof (I know one person who had one (an old model) and it failed to activate when he needed it, but there is a new model now with a more reliable switch they said..)
You need to tell the dive marshall/boat owner you've got one so they know to tell the cg to start looking (in case it is not picked up automatically).
Iain.
You need to tell the dive marshall/boat owner you've got one so they know to tell the cg to start looking (in case it is not picked up automatically).
We have a column on our emergency contact sheet to tick if you have one
tothepoint
14-11-2008, 11:18
The seamarshall dive epirb is'nt that reliable, I have had 2, both leaked oil! It looks ok on the web site but in reality when I received the epirb or PLB8-LD it look like it had been knocked up in the back of a garden shed, hand made in fact. You get what you pay for!!
The seamarshall dive epirb is'nt that reliable, I have had 2, both leaked oil! It looks ok on the web site but in reality when I received the epirb or PLB8-LD it look like it had been knocked up in the back of a garden shed, hand made in fact. You get what you pay for!!I'm on my third too. First one leaked oil through the rubber test button. Second one the aerial came away. Final one has the test button blanked off and a different aerial fitting. Seems to be ok.
Ron Evans
16-11-2008, 22:42
I've had two. Lost one! Second leaked, and when I showed it to the chap at the Dive Show who makes these, a year or two ago, he seemed surprised that I had taken it diving without using a drybox - apparently their marketing brochure insisted that such be used, but I never saw that brochure... Hmmm!
Haven't got one now.
Talked to the RNLI at the last Dive Show, and he seemed to be of the opinion that you get what you pay for, and they had a lot of McMurdo stuff on their RIB.
Anyone ever used any of these devices for real?
Anyone ever used any of these devices for real?
I know one person who did and it failed (the costguard didn't pick it up)
His boat was involved in a rescue and returned to collect him after he was hanging on a shotline for a few lonely hours -
ON the other hand, I've been to a presentation/demonstration of sea maschall since then and they claim to have redesigned the unit ot be more reliable.
HOWEVER - I asked 'was it diver proof?'
'define diver proof'
'I can clip it on my kit and it will survive being bounced about in the bottom of a RIB for a couple of hours with 30lbs of lead or a scuba tank bouncing on top of it'
'errr...'
The uncomfortable pause was all I needed to know.
They might be oil filled and waterproof to 100m, but I just don't think they are tough enough.
John Bantin
17-11-2008, 10:09
As with any rescue device, you need it to work in conjunction with the person likely to be looking for you. Setting off a PLB in the Red Sea will have little effect unless your boat is equipped with a tracking device and someone with the knowledge of how to use it. EPIRBs are suitable for use with liferaft situations and can take many hours to activate international rescue services with their associated costs. (Are you going to pay?)
There area few autonomous systems in development. ENOS is one. http://www.divernet.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?id=7560&sc=1002&ac=d&an=7560:+TRANSMIT+CONFIDENCE+...
I have to second John's adivce..
If you have an EPIRB of any kind it is prety useless unless..
1) you tell your budies/shore cover/boat cover you've got one and will use it if your are lost on the surface.
2) They tell the coastguard/RNLI/whoever that you've got it, so they can look for it.
3) detection can take hours..
You can buy (for a couple of thousand pounds) a SAR finder system to bolt onto your boat (or even a portable one) to detect activation of an EPRIB and help find it, HOWEVER.. coastguard etc. have a much better chance of finding you as they have more powerful kit and can use aircraft etc. with a better range (the higher up you are the further away you can 'see' the signal).
Sea marhsall are promoting their EPIRB for the red sea, trying to sell the finders ot boat owners and the units ot hire/give out on boats or to dive guides. One the one hand this could be good (given a couple of recent lost at sea episodes there), but i have this nightmare vision of muppets setting them off every day when they can't be bothered to get back to the baot, so they becoem effectively useless for real emergencies.
No epirb is a substiturte for good dive planning..
Know the local conditions (tides etc.)
Don't dive if the conditions are dodgy
Have good, alert shore and/or boat cover to reduce the chance of getting lost in the first place.
HDVDIVER
03-02-2009, 05:25
"If you have an EPIRB of any kind it is pretty useless unless.."
A strange thing to say...
I was at Sharm when several divers were lost at the Brothers (only one guy survived). Even so...with this in the news...our boat managed to leave a Portuguese guy behind at the Thislegorm. He was picked up by another boat...very embarrassing for C...l Dive. Next year, just prior to one of my many trips to Indonesia, several eastern European divers were fatally lost after a Mola-Mola drift dive. A few months ago several divers were lost in Indonesia (only one survived) because the boat skipper fell asleep and didn't hear them after a drift dive.
Who cares how long the local authorities' reaction time is...at least they'll find you if you activate a decent quality PLB/EPIRB!
The latest generation EPIRBs (406 MHz) are required to be registered so that the search authorities know who is in distress...and the new acquisition technology is excellent.
406 MHz EPIRB / 2.3 nm radius / 12.5 sq. search area / average 1 hour SAR notification
406 MHz w/GPS EPIRB / .05 nm (100m, 110 yards) radius .008 sq. nm search area / estimate 2-15 Minutes notification to SAR
Whats more, the kit is finally lightweight and affordable:
http://www.hdvseatek.com
In a high density boating region its always possible to use a compact i.e. 5w hand held VHF to contact the dive boat or other boats. These are also very affordable now as are the dive canisters for them (same as for an EPIRB).
Whats more, the kit is finally lightweight and affordable:
You've made three posts to these fora, and every one of them is plugging an Australian kit manufacturer. You've had no other involvement whatsoever.
Starting to smell particularly spammy...
Oh look - the web site you keep throwing at us has a remarkably similar vein to your username here. Why am I not surprised.
Vic.
He has received an official anti spam warning
2 CDs, cut them from the outside to the middle hole (stop at the middle). Stick them in a pocket. If you get lost, whip them out, join them together in a cross shape and tie them to the top of your DSMB.
You'll stick out like a lighthouse on a radar screen.
2 CDs, cut them from the outside to the middle hole (stop at the middle). Stick them in a pocket. If you get lost, whip them out, join them together in a cross shape and tie them to the top of your DSMB.
You'll stick out like a lighthouse on a radar screen.
Ooh!:)
nice idea!
want to do me some pics and we can add it to Safety Talk (http://www.bsac.com/page.asp?section=2624§ionTitle=Lost+at+Sea)
Jim:cool:
2 CDs, cut them from the outside to the middle hole (stop at the middle). Stick them in a pocket. If you get lost, whip them out, join them together in a cross shape and tie them to the top of your DSMB.
You'll stick out like a lighthouse on a radar screen.
Before you all start taking your "Now That's What I Call Music" collection diving, you might like to know that Custom Divers has/is launching a new DSMB called "The Seeker" which is radar detectable.
http://www.customdivers.com/seeker---radar-detectable-smb-229-p.asp
I've been told the Seeker DSMB took over over three years of Research and Development and Testing. Testers included a number of South Coast Skippers, the Coastguard and the RNLI and the results have come back confirming that the Seeker DSMB showed up on everyone’s radar 1.5 miles away on boats and 2 miles on helicopters. On every occasion the Rescuers easily located the Seeker DSMB, and this included simulated night and fog exercises.
If you are feeling really keen and want to do a Very Neat Job, undo the dump valve, roll up some aluminium foil and carefully push it through the hole. The next bit is really tricky- unroll it inside the DSMB and feed it gently up the blob.
Hey presto! A DSMB with radar reflector. Or glue some to the top 12" of the DSMB with Aquasure.
Nigel Hewitt
03-02-2009, 12:56
I've been told the Seeker DSMB took over over three years of Research and Development and Testing. Testers included...
Yeah but two 'AOL Now' coasters cost less than £86.
Heck that would buy a self inflate DSMB.
Oh look - the web site you keep throwing at us has a remarkably similar vein to your username here. Why am I not surprised.Well at least it's fairly obvious he is selling something.
Yeah but two 'AOL Now' coasters cost less than £86.
Heck that would buy a self inflate DSMB.Sadly I had an office clearout and binned about 100 CDs I found in a cupboard. Would be perfect for one of these.
Sadly I had an office clearout and binned about 100 CDs I found in a cupboard. Would be perfect for one of these.
Does the CD/aluminium foil thing really work?
I'm sure I read that they weren't radar reflective somewhere, or that the surface area was too small to give a signal back.
Dave Whitlow
04-02-2009, 22:59
Does the CD/aluminium foil thing really work?
I'm sure I read that they weren't radar reflective somewhere, or that the surface area was too small to give a signal back.
Don't know about foil but CDs just break and become a hazard and get dropped before they puncture something.
HDVDIVER
07-02-2009, 01:40
Exactly...I never tried to confuse the issue
(Vic: you, sir, are an investigative genious!)
It's sometimes a fine line between useful information and an advertising pitch. As a professional videographer who travels a lot ...and seen divers lost at first hand...this happens to be an issue I'm passionate about. Just giving your forum members a heads up ahead of a worldwide advertising campaign.
Quite frankly, I don't particularly care one way or the other. I've asked for my posts to be removed.
HDVDIVER
07-02-2009, 03:49
Just as I posted the above I hear that there is a massive Air Sea Rescue currently underway for two missing America divers off the North Queensland coast. If only they had a PLB.
It just keeps happening here and elsewhere with tiresome frequency...
Maria CM
09-02-2009, 10:50
Does selling something stop people having an opinion? Bias exists but that is the case with most opinions I think. What are the rulings on posting on a related topic if you sell such an item yourself? Do you just declare that in the posting?
I'm still confused about beacons though am inclined to think it would be a good idea to have one, if only I could decide what sort and it was an OK cost.
best wishes,
Maria
Does selling something stop people having an opinion? Bias exists but that is the case with most opinions I think. What are the rulings on posting on a related topic if you sell such an item yourself? Do you just declare that in the posting?
No it does not stop someone having an opinion, but as has been pointed out his first three posts were essentially adverts
http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=92221#post92221
http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=104158#post104158
http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=104159#post104159
None of which stated that it was his product he was pushing which if nothing else is somewhat disingenuous. The acceptable use policy says It is permitted for participants representing businesses offering diving related products and services to announce such products and services provided such announcements are relevant to the forum topic and pertinent to the current thread of conversation and made within a single message submission.
http://legacy.bsac.com/documents/Web%20Policy.pdf - page 10
Posting multiple times clearly breaks this policy however because he posted something which I thought useful I decided to leave the posts in place but to warn him that he was getting close to being considered a spammer.
Frankly if he had come on here and said "Hi guys we have just brought out this great new product that I think you might be interested in, here is a link to the web site..." then everyone would have been happy and he would have probably got positive reactions rather than the adverse ones he has received.
As always moderation is a difficult balancing act and what ever you do someone will think you got it wrong
Maria CM
09-02-2009, 11:31
Thanks Pete :D
Not intending to criticise - hope you didn't take it that way - I was more, sort of interested in the criteria and too lazy to look it up - less about this specific instance but more generally was what I meant - sorry - should have phrased it better :o. I agree, complete open-ness is more attractive. I still haven't a clue about the beacons myself though....... I shall have to research more fully at some point
best wishes,
Maria
HDVDIVER
11-02-2009, 07:47
If there was a decent edit facility I would have removed all but one post and even the link. Thus I ask, again, for the offending posts to be deleted by the moderator. Misunderstanding solved.
The direction of all this is not what I originally intended...and :confused: quite pointless really.
If there was a decent edit facility I would have removed all but one post and even the link. Thus I ask, again, for the offending posts to be deleted by the moderator. Misunderstanding solved.
The direction of all this is not what I originally intended...and :confused: quite pointless really.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to unpick a series of threads for a problem that I am not that worried about. If one of the other mods feel like doing it that is up to them.
johnyhog
12-02-2009, 02:00
Its gonna have to be a beacon got loads of CD's but can't find a player rated to 50m. 'Radar Love by golden earing' would have got me found blaring out at 120 Db.
sorry:D
Its gonna have to be a beacon got loads of CD's but can't find a player rated to 50m. 'Radar Love by golden earing' would have got me found blaring out at 120 Db.
sorry:D
Excellent!
Thanks Johny:D
the last record I heard on the drive in this morning was Benny Hill's "Ernie, the fastest milkman in the west" :eek:
"Radar love" is a much better tune to have swirling around in my head for the day:rolleyes:
Jim:cool:
johnyhog
12-02-2009, 18:20
What about 'Rescue Me' Aretha Franklins version. (Urethra Franklin for those with a 'P' valve)
Very sorry:D
johnyhog
16-02-2009, 22:46
Seriously tho, what about the brietling Emergency watch?
vBulletin v3.5.4, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.