Diving an old well

[bakernaut]

As anyone dived/descended/dropped down any old wells?

My sister has uncovered one in the back garden of her 300 y/o cottage and I'm up for going down. They have dropped a weighted line down it and recon there's about 7.5m of water. It’s of brick construction and about a metre wide at the top, opening out on a very slight taper. The vis ain’t great - about a foot at the surface.

I'm not intending to be roped to the surface, unless I find it branches out dramatically. I expect to find the odd remnants of buckets and pulleys at the bottom and maybe a few bones!

Does anyone know about the make up of these old wells?

[Nigel Hewitt]

I'm not intending to be roped to the surface, unless I find it branches out dramatically.No.
Come on.
It doesn't have to be an ice diving rope tied on to you but a bit of line isn't going to hurt if you really only have 30cms of vis before you start kicking the silt.

Finding out that it branches out dramatically or only just has a shelf and then wanting a line is too late.
That's how to win a Darwin.

[Andy Wade]

As anyone dived/descended/dropped down any old wells?

My sister has uncovered one in the back garden of her 300 y/o cottage and I'm up for going down. They have dropped a weighted line down it and recon there's about 7.5m of water. It’s of brick construction and about a metre wide at the top, opening out on a very slight taper. The vis ain’t great - about a foot at the surface.

I'm not intending to be roped to the surface, unless I find it branches out dramatically. I expect to find the odd remnants of buckets and pulleys at the bottom and maybe a few bones!

Does anyone know about the make up of these old wells?

It's definitely a well then?
Not an old cess pit?
I'd make sure first if I were you...
Whadda mistayka to make! :D

And yeah, like Nigel says, get a rope on you wally or you'll be in dead shtoom before you know it. You don't want to add to the bones do you?
If there's a couple of old bikes in there you could get trapped very easily and the one foot of vis will be nil in a breath, so you're feeling your way from the start.
Remember you will have great difficulty bending over in a 1m space to free your leg should it get caught in something. And you're definitely on your own in that tight a hole.
Think worst case. Ask yourself how you would go about getting an injured and trapped diver out of this unsafe and probably rubbish congested well. Would it be extremely difficult? Then you've answered the most important question.
Get yourself a 7.5 metre long ladder and put it up against the house.
Its a long way to the top isn't it?

And here's a real scary story for you, what if it's not actually a well?
What if it's actually a drainage culvert that is just blocked, and you go down and accidentally unblock it... what happens to all the water?
Yes. It drains away and takes you with it.
Should you block the hole with your body the static water pressure will hold you there until you run out of air and die. :eek:
And even if the water doesn't trap you and drains away safely, you'll just be at the bottom of a deep shaft. How do you get out of it?
There's always that ladder leaned up against the house I suppose...

There are lots of questions to consider before entering this hole in the ground full of water.

I'm being a bit tongue in cheek about this because there's a fair chance it is just an old well and may not be congested with old rusty bikes and prams.
But you never know.

Stay safe man. :)

[Adrian Kelland]

Don't just tie a rope around the waist. If you need to be pulled out, you will be bent double and possibly get stuck...

In confined spaces operations, a harness is worn with a clip between the shoulders with ropes to a winch.

There may be little or no oxygen down there.

This is not a task for a sports diver without additional appropriate training.

Fatalities in such places used to come in threes. Why 3? Because that is how many you could get in the front of a transit.

Adrian

[David Walker]

Don't just tie a rope around the waist. If you need to be pulled out, you will be bent double and possibly get stuck...

In confined spaces operations, a harness is worn with a clip between the shoulders with ropes to a winch.

Oooh, glad you put that second bit there... after reading the first bit I was thinking "surely it would hurt being pulled out with a rope around the neck!"

:D

David

[Adrian Kelland]

Oooh, glad you put that second bit there... after reading the first bit I was thinking "surely it would hurt being pulled out with a rope around the neck!"

:D

David
:)

These were the kind of places that used to kill lots of people. After all you can't see any dangers can you? Chalk wells and shafts are especially bad. A bit of moisture and there is a reaction removing the O2 from the air. At least the death is painless, you just pass out...

That Backernaut did not expect to roped to the surface shows how easily fatalities can happen. No one would be able to tie a rope on when he is at the bottom unconscious. Then someone else goes down to try and help... Then it is a job for the rescue services and undertaker.

Given the nature of how work gangs would often be made up, this kind of thing would easily involve father, son and uncle.

HSE Press Release (http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2004/e04109.htm)

Adrian

[Matt-75]

Do your research really well before you even think of attempting something like this.

If the well entrance is 1m across, dont even bother diving it, that is far to narrow. If you really must explore it, you might want to ask a CDG group to have a look at it and give you a heads up on whether it would be worth it. If they say no, then dont kill yourself over something stupid.

My best advice is dont bother.

[Adrian Kelland]

Do your research really well before you even think of attempting something like this.

If the well entrance is 1m across, dont even bother diving it, that is far to narrow. If you really must explore it, you might want to ask a CDG group to have a look at it and give you a heads up on whether it would be worth it. If they say no, then dont kill yourself over something stupid.

My best advice is dont bother. 1m is fine Matt, I've been down smaller with BA on, with appropriate support and kit. Some manholes are only .6 x .6m. Certainly a tight squeeze there :D

Adrian

[bakernaut]

Core blimey, what an onslaught. Trapped by static water pressure! More like trapped by a load of hot air.
It's an old well, for sure for sure.

I was after some serious historic data on the make up of 300 y/o wells. Ok, I'll make sure I'm roped, fair point. Thanks.

[Andy Wade]

Core blimey, what an onslaught. Trapped by static water pressure! More like trapped by a load of hot air.
It's an old well, for sure for sure.

I was after some serious historic data on the make up of 300 y/o wells. Ok, I'll make sure I'm roped, fair point. Thanks.

OK, maybe I went a teeny bit over the top, (it was a bit tongue in cheek)but diving in an old well without a safety rope (and of course someone to get you out) is asking for trouble. Nobody is flaming you, just concerned that's all.
I know of two men (council workers I think) who were killed about twenty years ago when they entered a drain culvert and cleared out the blockage. They were both forced down an 18" diameter drain hole. It was just waist depth water and I guess it looked really benign to them. Apparently the second guy was just inches below the water surface when his body stopped the water flow, or he might have had a chance of surviving.

[Mike Halligan]

Core blimey, what an onslaught. Trapped by static water pressure! More like trapped by a load of hot air.
It's an old well, for sure for sure.

I was after some serious historic data on the make up of 300 y/o wells. Ok, I'll make sure I'm roped, fair point. Thanks.

Those were expressions of true concern. I've been close to losing colleagues to hypoxic environments whilst we searched ships. Sadly, other colleagues weren't so fortunate as I.

A friend of mine, before his retirement from the water industry, spent many pleasant hours guarding access to wells, shafts and drains whilst first they were vented, then colleagues went down in pairs, equipped with BA, gas alarms et al. He had to call the fire ambulance services more than once. It is axiomatic that when a colleague in such places fails to respond, a second rushes in to suffer the same fate whilst a third tries and is restrained. Such is human nature. The same human nature leads more than one person here to warn of very similar threats in several different ways.

No-one expected the Abbeystead disaster, least of all the WI members who were blown to pieces. http://www.hse.gov.uk/comah/sragtech/caseabbeystead84.htm

[Adrian Kelland]

Core blimey, what an onslaught. Trapped by static water pressure! More like trapped by a load of hot air.
It's an old well, for sure for sure.Apart from potential structural instabilty, age is not necessarily a problem.

I was after some serious historic data on the make up of 300 y/o wells. Ok, I'll make sure I'm roped, fair point. Thanks.
No, it is just not about the roping, have you any idea how hard it might be to pull you out dead weight? Don't do it. At all. Think of your family of you won't think of yourself.

There is probably plenty of information regarding the contruction of wells on the net. and libraries etc. Look on historic maps, your well may even be marked.

This pic show the kind of gear used for simple confined spaces working. http://www.safety-height.co.uk/ui/media/confined.jpg

The guy appears to be unconscious. I'm not surprised, he has no gas monitor on and no emergency BA.

I really hope you have got the point here. Some of us have been around this kind of thing on a professional basis and would not consider what you want to do without a lot of kit and trained support.

If you really want to look at the construction at the bottom, lower a video camera down. Let the well vent for a while in case of explosive gas first, you probably don't have an intrinsically safe camera to hand.

Adrian

[Finless]

Chuck a rope in with a weight and a dive computer (like those techies do so they can say they've dived deep / surely no one dives below 30 mtrs? :)) on the end.

Maybe a dive camera if it has a time release shutter (essential for those under water dive group shots) so you can get a picture of the remains of the last diver that went down there :):).

[Tristan Green]

Unfortunately this is all too common an event. Just last year another two died entering a sewer manhole:

http://sc.info.gov.hk/gb/www.dsd.gov.hk/whats_new/index_UID_1106.htm

Make sure you ventilate the well before you enter it and make sure there is someone to call for help.

Cheers,
Tristan

[Finless]

Sounds exciting though. Maybe you'll find sunken pirate treasure.

[Andy Wade]

Sounds exciting though. Maybe you'll find sunken pirate treasure.

Or even some nice bottles. You could start a collection for the mantlepiece.
They would look really nice next to the old clock with the final demand letters stuffed behind it.

[flaming fool]

did you go into the hole in the end?

[Paul Watts]

mmmm, we heard nout for almost 3 months.......:(

[Matt-75]

My parents uncovered a well a few years back, and i really wanted to explore it, but didnt bother in the end. It was about 6m deep (water depth), crystal clear spring water (we could see the bottom from the top), and water entry was about .5m from the surface. Not to mention the well was 3m wide. It was created in the 17th/18th century by ironmongers and there are a fair few more undiscovered wells in the area, according to a map a friend dug up.

But a drysuit would have been a necessity. Neither do i have OHE training and a cave ticket, so better to be safe than the other possibility.

Hopefully he didnt do anything stupid, but ive not seen anything on the news about well diving accidents.

[DannyEdmunds]

What if it's actually a drainage culvert that is just blocked, and you go down and accidentally unblock it... what happens to all the water?
Yes. It drains away and takes you with it.
Should you block the hole with your body the static water pressure will hold you there until you run out of air and die. :eek:


wasn't this a factor with that chap who died during the floods back in august?

danny

[JamesW]

We have one in France, when I get time I will dive it.
never know might find some old bottles of rose :D

[Matt-75]

We have one in France, when I get time I will dive it.
never know might find some old bottles of rose :D

If it was a cave, i might have been tempted. :D

[JamesW]

If it was a cave, i might have been tempted. :D

There is a big cave complex near by.