View Full Version : Posible solution to M26 Nitrox fittings
blueyoull
04-06-2007, 21:06
Ok so I'm facing a problem, I want a new O2 clean cylinder for diving on NX and a pony but if I go and spend all my dinner money on a traditional DIN fitting come August 2008 (TBA) no one will fill it with NX anymore:( so my question to those in the know is:
If I get a twin set with one cylinder with traditional din fitting and one with the new "IMMANENT" M26 can I still connect the two with a manifold?
This way you can still get a fill from shops now with the old valve then when the change comes in you can just use the other new M26 valve plus I get to carry on using my existing regs that cost me more hungry dinner times...
Happy Days.:D
Cheers in advance Blue.
Ben Panter
04-06-2007, 21:13
I suspect that the configuration you suggest could not possibly exist and would cause any dive shop filling attendant to spontaneously combust due to the conflicting rules.
Good luck to you though....
Ben
blueyoull
04-06-2007, 21:30
LOL :rolleyes: Some comedy Value at least.
Ok so I'm facing a problem, I want a new O2 clean cylinder for diving on NX and a pony but if I go and spend all my dinner money on a traditional DIN fitting come August 2008 (TBA) no one will fill it with NX anymore:( so my question to those in the know is:
If I get a twin set with one cylinder with traditional din fitting and one with the new "IMMANENT" M26 can I still connect the two with a manifold?
This way you can still get a fill from shops now with the old valve then when the change comes in you can just use the other new M26 valve plus I get to carry on using my existing regs that cost me more hungry dinner times...
Happy Days.:D
Cheers in advance Blue.
Nice try, but suspect that the boring awsner will be no.
Idea of the thread is to stop unclean air, so having an old fitting that
allows that, would be against that ideal. The filling station in question
would no longer be sure that only Nitrox or clean air had been put in
and so would be within there rights to refuse a fill.
David Walker
04-06-2007, 22:45
Yeah, to me that solution seems less ideal than either all DIN or all new-nitrox valves.
Personally i'd stick with bog-standard DIN and wait to see what happens. Chances are you'll be able to use those (maybe with an adaptor for filling) for the foreseeable future; there's just no way that this could be implemented by next year (even if we wanted to). As there is still significant and influential opposition to it i'm sure we'll have plenty of time before this even hints at becoming a problem for recreational divers.
David
blueyoull
04-06-2007, 22:52
Yeah, to me that solution seems less ideal than either all DIN or all new-nitrox valves.
Personally i'd stick with bog-standard DIN and wait to see what happens. Chances are you'll be able to use those (maybe with an adaptor for filling) for the foreseeable future; there's just no way that this could be implemented by next year (even if we wanted to). As there is still significant and influential opposition to it i'm sure we'll have plenty of time before this even hints at becoming a problem for recreational divers.
David
On that note has anyone heard of an adaptor on the market yet?
David Walker
04-06-2007, 23:21
Not in the UK - but then I've never seen any regs, valves, or cylinders with the new valves offered for sale in the UK either (although I guess you may be able to get them on special request?). But this is exactly why I don't believe there can be a forced change in the near future, because practically no one has heard of it, no-one stocks any "new"-style components, and no-one seems to be able to think of any benefits that this thing brings.
David
iain/hsm
05-06-2007, 13:12
No solution but perhaps some background as I can’t change the law but as there have been a number of fires with standard scuba air valves so there has been pressure to change the internal design to make the flow, passages and internal components more compatible with nitrox and elevated oxygen concentrations. So far this had nothing to do with M26 but it is required by law that each gas has a different thread.
As some will know I design valves as part of my day job and we even suggested an M18 x 1.5 ISO as the new thread (as it had to be different again to the 5/8 air 250/300 DIN) M18 is standard on some small cylinders and most test centres have the go/no-go ring and plug gauges, so the same thread gauges could be used for both testing the M18 bottle threads as well as the “new” regulators connection stem thread as we suggested.
But the M18 would have suggested existing manufacturers have new smaller brass valve stampings made, but by using the same DIN stamping only open up the DIN 5/8 thread to M26 this allows the older stampings still to be used.
Although M18 being smaller lighter, valve and regulator threads would have been better for freight, airlines transport, rebreathers etc, etc. there are other design considerations. Look at the high pressure seat of a typical air cylinder on/off valve, the amount of plastic and therefore consumable “fuel” material is huge. The new valves should reduce the plastic volume used and the material. Also the rising “plug” of the old seat you may see changes into a more Vee shape or regulating tip. Thread pitch or threads per inch TPI may increase requiring more turns to open, slowing down the gas volume, impact and adabatic loads on the equipment when opening. Sadly in M26.
Michelle Haywood
05-06-2007, 13:55
We have them in stock. In fact I think we had them in about January.
The ones we have came from Beaver, but although they are listed in the trade catalogue - they aren't listed on the website :confused:
However, they are real because they are sat on my desk at the moment...
232 bar DIN Female /M26 Male adaptor
and
M26 Female/232 Bar DIN Male adaptor
Cost about £9.
A search on the product code shows the only other place listing them is Dutch.
Don't ask me to explain why this is the situation - I don't know. :rolleyes:
Michelle
Chris Cherrington
05-06-2007, 14:13
My LDS stocks them.
Chris
We have them in stock. In fact I think we had them in about January.
The ones we have came from Beaver, but although they are listed in the trade catalogue - they aren't listed on the website :confused:
However, they are real because they are sat on my desk at the moment...
232 bar DIN Female /M26 Male adaptor
and
M26 Female/232 Bar DIN Male adaptor
Cost about £9.
Michelle
They were on the website I remember seeing them, wonder why they aren't now :confused:
Mike Halligan
05-06-2007, 15:25
We have them in stock. In fact I think we had them in about January.
It must be the Irish influence, you're so far ahead of England (again!) :cool:
Michelle Haywood
05-06-2007, 16:11
Nope - don't think so... All our stuff gets shipped from England - at least that's what they charge us for!
Michelle
PS Would that be so far ahead that we're coming back round on ourselves???? (That's the only way as an English "come-over" I can live with that statement ;) )
I think I might just go back to A clamp.......:)
I think I might just go back to A clamp.......:)
Will I get the last laugh (having never had my regs converted, some of which are 15 years old) will I be able just to get an M26 donut ?
tj
TF I only get my cylinders filled from the club compressor these days ......... although, I suppose, we'll be forced into compliance due to insurance requirements.
What is it about modern day England/Europe and the Nanny State and interfering Jobsworths that are just regulating the bejeebers out of life?
I have imagined the future and I don't like it!
David Walker
06-06-2007, 07:46
Will I get the last laugh (having never had my regs converted, some of which are 15 years old) will I be able just to get an M26 donut ?
Fairly sure i've read somewhere that that won't be an option :(
David
neilhadfield
06-06-2007, 09:46
Sub aqua products have the adaptors. Check under category Charging Adaptors - DIN.
http://subaqua-products.co.uk/Catalogue/catalogue.php
Neil
Will you still be allowed to get nitrox fills on cylinders that are A-clamp? if so surely people could just put the plug into the din thread that converts din to A-clamp.
Maybe im missing something........
surely this madness can be stopped .. .. .. no???
Will you still be allowed to get nitrox fills on cylinders that are A-clamp? if so surely people could just put the plug into the din thread that converts din to A-clamp.
Maybe im missing something........
surely this madness can be stopped .. .. .. no???
Would of thought the logic is , if you have to change your old m25 fitting then you would also have to change A clamp fitting.
Chris Cherrington
06-06-2007, 12:28
Will you still be allowed to get nitrox fills on cylinders that are A-clamp? ...
No is the simple answer. Yoke only or DIN/yoke valves are air only.
Chris
blueyoull
06-06-2007, 18:08
Spoke to my LDS today and they said that they've looked into the converters and it is OK for you to use one IE. so you can use your DIN regs but it would be illegal for them to fill your bottle using one as it comes down to the whole Health And Safety At Work thing.
On that note has anyone heard of an adaptor on the market yet?
http://www.subaqua-products.co.uk/Catalogue/catalogue.php
Put M26 in the search box
John Bantin
11-06-2007, 20:19
Beaver.
TF I only get my cylinders filled from the club compressor these days ......... although, I suppose, we'll be forced into compliance due to insurance requirements.
What is it about modern day England/Europe and the Nanny State and interfering Jobsworths that are just regulating the bejeebers out of life?
I have imagined the future and I don't like it!
It will only get worse. The Diving industry is commercially driven but hidden in a thin vale of safety.
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