Is this what being narced is like????

[starfishdiver]

Hi all

I am currently doing my SD drills and have dived many a cold dive in Stoney Cove. However, on Friday I had my first really "bad" dive and was wondering if anyone can tell me if I was actually suffering from Nitrogen Narcosis or not. I was cold to start with and had trouble descending as I had an extra layer of clothes on and hadn't added extra weight - so was a bit "light". Finally made it down and we headed straight down to 20M - where boyancy wasn't a problem. But by then I was stressed and didn't feel comfortable and basically sucked the air out of my cylinder because I was panicked. Made it to the Stanegarth, over to the mini and then back. By then I was having trouble focusing on my dive computer and felt really lightheaded and dizzy. I was low on air and by the time I looked up, my buddy was way ahead of me - so I rushed to catch up just before he disappeared in the murk. We made it up to 15M but by then I was struggling to stay on the bottom - suffering from suit squeeze - but still too boyant. Staying at 6M for a 3 min deco stop was only possible by hanging on to the large boulders on the bottom and by then I was very, very low on air.

I was very happy to get out - which is a first for me because normally I really enjoy the dives no matter what the weather or temperature.

So, basically, I have a couple of questions:

1. Was this narcosis due to taking in so much air at the start and then the combination of cold and feeling unsure about bouyancy etc...?
2. Should I have abandoned the dive at the start because I just didn't feel right? Or was it good that I carried on and at least experienced a "bad" dive?

Cheers
Suz

[Tony Dwyer]

Hi all

I am currently doing my SD drills and have dived many a cold dive in Stoney Cove. However, on Friday I had my first really "bad" dive and was wondering if anyone can tell me if I was actually suffering from Nitrogen Narcosis or not. I was cold to start with and had trouble descending as I had an extra layer of clothes on and hadn't added extra weight - so was a bit "light". Finally made it down and we headed straight down to 20M - where boyancy wasn't a problem. But by then I was stressed and didn't feel comfortable and basically sucked the air out of my cylinder because I was panicked. Made it to the Stanegarth, over to the mini and then back. By then I was having trouble focusing on my dive computer and felt really lightheaded and dizzy. I was low on air and by the time I looked up, my buddy was way ahead of me - so I rushed to catch up just before he disappeared in the murk. We made it up to 15M but by then I was struggling to stay on the bottom - suffering from suit squeeze - but still too boyant. Staying at 6M for a 3 min deco stop was only possible by hanging on to the large boulders on the bottom and by then I was very, very low on air.

I was very happy to get out - which is a first for me because normally I really enjoy the dives no matter what the weather or temperature.

So, basically, I have a couple of questions:

1. Was this narcosis due to taking in so much air at the start and then the combination of cold and feeling unsure about bouyancy etc...?
2. Should I have abandoned the dive at the start because I just didn't feel right? Or was it good that I carried on and at least experienced a "bad" dive?

Cheers
Suz

Suz

It's very likely that you were suffering from Narcosis, you certainly descibe some symptoms. Cold & stress are likely to promote it.

From what you descibe, your big problem was stress, which had a number or causes. My view;

1. Too cold at the start of the dive. Give up and get out of the water. Get warm. You will be a lot colder at the end of the dive, which could be very serious.
2. Too buoyant at the start of the dive. Get out and sort it. Perhaps add weight. If comfy start the dive again. If not, get out of the water. If you are too buoyant at the start of the dive, you will be far too buoyant at the end, due to the loss of the weight of the air you have used and will have difficulty in controlling your depth, as you found.
3. If you are in danger of losing contact with your buddy, make sure that he / she understands that they are moving too fast or not paying enough attention and that you want them 'right here please!'.
4. If you feel panicky, signal your buddy, let him / her know that you are not happy. It easier to move to a shallow depth or even call the dive than to deal with a diver that has gone over the 'edge'.

I would not have done the dive as you described it, however, you came back safely and have probably learned a great deal. Don't let it put you off. :)

[starfishdiver]

Thanks for the reply Tony.

I have to admit that I am now feeling a bit apprehensive about my next dive, but will hopefully get over it by the time I dive again. I also have it on my to do list to buy some extra weight and to add another 2kg to stop this happening again. But as you say, I did at least learn that I can "keep it together" even if I am stressed and panicked, which can only be a good thing for all concerned.

Cheers and thanks
Suz

[Adrian Kelland]

Thanks for the reply Tony.

I have to admit that I am now feeling a bit apprehensive about my next dive, but will hopefully get over it by the time I dive again. I also have it on my to do list to buy some extra weight and to add another 2kg to stop this happening again. But as you say, I did at least learn that I can "keep it together" even if I am stressed and panicked, which can only be a good thing for all concerned.

Cheers and thanks
Suz
Please let you buddy/instructor know this Suz. Also you might not need the extra weight if you had too much air in you jacket/suit. Have you been take through a weight test with a nearly empty cylinder yet?

Adrian

[Tony Dwyer]

Thanks for the reply Tony.

I have to admit that I am now feeling a bit apprehensive about my next dive, but will hopefully get over it by the time I dive again. I also have it on my to do list to buy some extra weight and to add another 2kg to stop this happening again. But as you say, I did at least learn that I can "keep it together" even if I am stressed and panicked, which can only be a good thing for all concerned.

Cheers and thanks
Suz

I second Adrian's comment about trapped air. It's very common with new divers.
Do go through a thorough weight check, with and empty (or nearly empty :) ) cylinder.
Do let your instructor/buddy know that you are apprehensive. Perhaps do a couple of less challenging dives to help you feel more confident.

regards

Tony

[Chris Cherrington]

Its also the case that stress can make you "overbreathe" and retain too much air (ie not breathing out enough) that too adds to bouyancy.

Stress induced narcosis is real and can affect us all.

My advice would be to have a couple of nice easy chill-out dives to relax again and remind yourself how much fun it can be.

Chris

[jcp]

I'm wondering if Co2 buildup from rapid breathing might be a factor here, given the feeling of lightheadness and dizziness?

[PeteM]

I'm wondering if Co2 buildup from rapid breathing might be a factor here, given the feeling of lightheadness and dizziness?

Exactly what I was thinking - symptoms sound like CO2 + a bit of narcosis

[Tony Dwyer]

Exactly what I was thinking - symptoms sound like CO2 + a bit of narcosis

On reflection, I feel you may very well be right.

[starfishdiver]

Thanks all for the encouragement and really helpful replies. I have done a weight test and at 8kg on my weight belt I am just right as long as I don't add extra layers underneath, which is what I did on Friday due to the cold.

Also, the overbreathing and dizzyness could be a factor, so will keep that in mind for next time - 6M shelf, here I come! ;)

[Matt-75]

I had something similar on a dive last year in Stoney. In my case i called it at around 18m. I was cold and started to really stress out, checked my gas quite rapidly and my depth, like 4 or 5 times a minute. Buoyancy was good though, weight was spot on, and i exited after using 40-50 bar of air. This was when i dived air. Also picked up a debateable sub-clinical DCS, although its unknown whether it really was, but a lot of the symptoms i described to people on YD were apparently the ones associated with that, and my wrist hurt for about 8 weeks before it fixed itself.

Since then i got into richer mixes, and on 36%, i seem to relax into my dives a lot easier than when i was on air. For me its been one of the pluses of nitrox. Also the drysuit is much better than the wetsuit i was diving back then, and i really plan and visualise my dives, well before i get in the water, so i feel better prepared. For me diving without those steps is necessary, other wise i can huff down my cylinder at a record rate.

Have i been narced. Short answer yes. Was i narced on that dive, probably, but i doubt it caused my problems. The CO2 theory was one i came up with, and it was a bit stressy doing my first dive after sunny Malta in the murky lagoon that is Stoney Cove.

[Woz]

Sounds like you got the CO2 willies. I get them at 20m. In fact my descent usually goes like this:

20m- CO2 willies. Especially at Stoney where you might be puffing at the quay before you get in. So now I get everyone on the quay and we all sit there for 5 mins getting our breath back.

30m- start to feel a bit "warm". Sometimes develop vertigo too.

40m- feeling a bit caned here

50m- battered and good for nothing

So. If you are not expecting then above symptoms they can be terrifying. However if you are expecting them then they are quite enjoyable.

At 20m you are unlikely to be noticably narked. It's more likely to be CO2 buildup from the walk to the waters edge followed by a rapid descent. So. What to do?

1. descend slower. This makes a big difference.
2. breathe long and slow- if you feel spooked then stop, take 5 massive deep breaths and settle down.
3. try and relax. I know it's easy to say but if you get into the water stressed then you'll have a crap dive. Get settled before jumping in- what's the hurry?

You see loads of people stagger from the top car park and jump straight in then are surprised when the hoover through 100 bar of air before they've even got to the bottom of the road at 20m.

And Matt self-diagnosis on the internet is a terrible idea. Sub-clinical DCS is "feeling tired" and is called sub-clinical as it doesn't present any DCS symptoms. There are ways of telling if a type 1 bend is really a bend and asking YD isn't one of them. Asking the duty diving doctor is.

[starfishdiver]

I like that: the CO2 willies - good name for it. I'm sure it was that - and you're right, out of breath at the start, followed by rapid descent - all of which I was on Friday. Will take it slower and steadier next time.

:)

[Janos]

I like that: the CO2 willies - good name for it. I'm sure it was that - and you're right, out of breath at the start, followed by rapid descent - all of which I was on Friday. Will take it slower and steadier next time.

Did you have a headache later? This can be a secondary sign of a CO2 hit.

Janos

[Matt-75]

And Matt self-diagnosis on the internet is a terrible idea. Sub-clinical DCS is "feeling tired" and is called sub-clinical as it doesn't present any DCS symptoms. There are ways of telling if a type 1 bend is really a bend and asking YD isn't one of them. Asking the duty diving doctor is.

Yes, i know Woz.

I was really tired after the last dive and drove back to Sheffield, but i couldnt remember how i got from Stoney to Sheffield (like a gap in my memory, according to my friend i just drove in a zombie state, and he thought id fell asleep at the wheel a couple of times). Which was then followed by much sleep, then a call to DDRC about my wrist. I ended up in A&E having a neuro exam done at 3am the next morning. The wrist hurt for a good while after. No idea if it was a bend, or not, but the pain disappeared after around 2 months.

Its all in the past, and i learnt a few things out of it.

[Ed Howarth]

If your buddy disappeared into the gloom, I would get a new buddy. A good buddy should lead from the side of you, not from the front.

Ed

[jules59]

Starfishdiver:
Remember this diving lark is suppose to be fun, why else do it ? So here's my view on it all:
If it doesnt feel like fun then somethings wrong, and if you dont stop and sort it out you are likely to fall into the incident pit with potentially very serious consequences.
Yes, most of us have scarey moments especially during training but the important point is to sort it all out before you push on with the dive. If you cant then knock it on the head.
Regards
Jules
PS
Let your buddy know about your ordeal, if he/she doesnt pay more attention then I'd get a new buddy.
PPS
A friend of mine once said "any dive you get to the surface from is a good one, its the ones where you dont that you have to watch out for".:D

[Woz]

If you want to know what a CO2 hit feels like:

Get a 2L bottle of coke.
Drink half of it.
With the top off swirl the remaining coke around in the bottle.
Stick your mouth over the end of the bottle, squeeze and inhale.

Make sure you are sitting down when you do this as you get a massive headspin and headache as you suck in concentrated CO2 from the coke.

[Matt-75]

If you want to know what a CO2 hit feels like:

Get a 2L bottle of coke.
Drink half of it.
With the top off swirl the remaining coke around in the bottle.
Stick your mouth over the end of the bottle, squeeze and inhale.

Make sure you are sitting down when you do this as you get a massive headspin and headache as you suck in concentrated CO2 from the coke.

From personal experience, eh. ;)

Why not try nitrous, at least its enjoyable (in a drunken sort of way).

[Woz]

From personal experience, eh. ;)

Why not try nitrous, at least its enjoyable (in a drunken sort of way).Yep. Tried nitrous. Absolutley nothing like a CO2 hit.

[Matt-75]

Yep. Tried nitrous. Absolutley nothing like a CO2 hit.

Ah, the days of dodgy dentists and dodgy gases.

Brings back memories. :D

[Woz]

Ah, the days of dodgy dentists and dodgy gases.

Brings back memories. :DIt was an ante-natal class for me. All the dads had a huff. I was last so had a huff for a good 5 minutes.

[starfishdiver]

I have to defend my buddy here - he's the best. And we did discuss it all in the pub afterwards over coffee and cake - very civilised. Had a couple of cokes too, but didn't try for the CO2 hit. Also, didn't have a headache after the dive - so maybe it wasn't the CO2 willies after all. Maybe just me having a bad dive. I may well go again on Sunday and dive with my other buddy - his style is to stay much closer - so maybe that will make my next dive fun again, as they always have been up until now anyway. Am going to the Red Sea in September for my 1st warm water dive and hopefully will be SD by then - am really looking forward to that one.