Crossing over from PADI [Archive] - BSAC Scuba Diving Forums

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andywg

09-03-2007, 14:37

JamesW

09-03-2007, 15:24

HI
Padi OW = 18mts
BSAC OD = 20mts
Padi ADV OW = 30mts
Padi ADV OW Deep Spec = 40mts

Do the Padi route then crossover at a later date.
Good luck and happy diving

Tony Dwyer

09-03-2007, 15:28

However, I would also love to dive a lot in England. I have a family friend who does a lot of wrecking from the Isle of Wight and I myself would enjoy being able to visit occasionally and head out with him, and find a club or two in the Essex (Southend) area which will allow me to dive somewhat frequently.

Would it be worth me and the mrs just finishing the Open Water and then looking to find a BSAC club and training up through that from hereon in, or would there be some benefits in doing the PADI advanced course as it can be done in a weekend?

Andy

Are you atually in Southend? Perhaps we're not too far away for you.

unashamed plug!

http://basildonsubaqua.com

You would be welcomed. :)

Mark

09-03-2007, 15:35

Would it be worth me and the mrs just finishing the Open Water and then looking to find a BSAC club and training up through that from hereon in, or would there be some benefits in doing the PADI advanced course as it can be done in a weekend?

Just be aware that the PADI AOW course is not an ADVANCED course as such.
It basically progresses your skills and experiance a LITTLE.

My personal opinion is that it's not a course i'd be willing to do.
Lots of money for not so much gain.

I'd recomend finding a good branch, cross over and then start SD training.

That's what I did...

:)

Matt-75

09-03-2007, 15:59

Work your way up to Rescue Diver then crossover. You go in at the same level as a BSAC Sports Diver, which is the only decent starting level to be at.

While you work your way up, get some diving done, try and aim for 50-100 dives by September (not hard since you can easily do 3 dives in a day and on occasion a night dive as well).

Then have a look at the Basildon club, a lot of decent people seem to be part of it.

Alternatively you could join a BSAC club and continue doing things with PADI. A lot of people nowadays hold multiple qualifications with multiple agencies. Me included.

Personally their are some good (cheaper) courses with BSAC such as the o2 admin and first aid courses. Also more advanced stuff like practical rescue management and the boat handling courses. So if it were me id join the BSAC club, do whatever stuff i wanted with PADI as well as whatever i could with BSAC. The best of both worlds.

TerryH

09-03-2007, 16:16

I am just finishing up my Open Water course with PADI. I have a trip to Stoney in May to do all the open water dives.

I had planned to do the Advanced course in the early summer before doing a dive off the Isle of Wight in August and heading for Fiji in September.

My question is, should I try and find a BSAC club early? I am very happy with the training and the atmosphere of the "club" and I would like to be qualified and have some experience of a bit deeper for when we visit Fiji.

However, I would also love to dive a lot in England. I have a family friend who does a lot of wrecking from the Isle of Wight and I myself would enjoy being able to visit occasionally and head out with him, and find a club or two in the Essex (Southend) area which will allow me to dive somewhat frequently.

Would it be worth me and the mrs just finishing the Open Water and then looking to find a BSAC club and training up through that from hereon in, or would there be some benefits in doing the PADI advanced course as it can be done in a weekend?

Open water is great, saves a lot of training time and you are a diver
already which is good. AOW is to be honest pants and now is the time to
switch to BSAC.
Sport is geared up to UK waters and so you've awnsered your own question
in the last paragraph.

It wont take long in an active club, and once done give us a shout.
We run boats all over the South and often have the odd space on both
East & West Wight. Our minimum is I'm afraid Sport or Rescue, so you would
have to do more than AOW to join us, but the offer is there :cool:

Badders (Dave)

09-03-2007, 18:03

Hi Andy

If I can add to all what has been said

I think the choice of where to go next depends on what you want to get out of your diving progression.

BSAC or I suppose any club based organisation is in my experience more aimed towards diving first and the qualifications will follow later when you have got real experience under your belt. So if you just want to go have fun and go diving with a good bunch of nutters erm sorry, people ,then this is the way to do it, it is slower but this is comparatively a much cheaper option.

PADI or any professional training organisation is more aimed at getting the qualification then go out diving or join a club afterwards. If you are in some sort of rush and money is no object then this is perhaps your option.

Something I have noticed regarding people who have joined our club after training with PADI is a lack of actual experience, I'm not trying to knock the training it is probably very good but it's abit like a driving licence you might pass the test but its the experience after, that really teaches you how to do it.

Which ever path you choose I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
Badders

thefootster

09-03-2007, 18:22

I am just finishing up my Open Water course with PADI. I have a trip to Stoney in May to do all the open water dives.

I had planned to do the Advanced course in the early summer before doing a dive off the Isle of Wight in August and heading for Fiji in September.

As an alternative, to keep things simple, you are already an Ocean Diver (equivelant), therefore, you can cross deck to BSAC & start doing your Sport Diver straight away!

Thereafter, you have the option to continue with both concurrently, or decide which one you like best & stick with that 'un.

andywg

09-03-2007, 19:47

Cheers for the advice all.

I think I may take a bit of time doing both for a while and see which one suits me best. There is a lot I would like to do, but am conscious of trying to run before I walk, which is where the idea of constant slow learning is nice.

My fear for the PADI style is that it could become very similar to modern day education, where the course is about getting you passed without too much focus on retention of the details.

Or, to use the driving analogy above, "you pass your test, then you learn to d(r)ive".

Originally posted by Tony Dwyer

Are you atually in Southend?

I am indeed in Southend, so will consider that. I like the idea of a Friday night dive as it gives me a reason to get out the house on a Friday, and is a lon time after Saturday when I attempt to prop for my local rugby club, giving unsightly purple marks and cuts a chance to heal and prevent me scaring small children. :rolleyes:

[edit]

Just thought, would most clubs be okay with someone maybe wanting to watch/join in a session and/or the pub afterwards to have a chat with the members and see which club would be best? It looks like there are at least 4-5 in the area I would consider.

PeteM

09-03-2007, 20:02

Andy

Are you atually in Southend? Perhaps we're not too far away for you.

unashamed plug!

http://basildonsubaqua.com

You would be welcomed. :)

Well if you are plugging...

Check the signature, we meet just off the the A130 on the Southend side of Chelmsford

PeteM

09-03-2007, 20:06

Just thought, would most clubs be okay with someone maybe wanting to watch/join in a session and/or the pub afterwards to have a chat with the members and see which club would be best? It looks like there are at least 4-5 in the area I would consider.

Any club that isn't is not worth joining, I would say go to all clubs within reasonable distance a couple of times and see who you get on best with. Ask them all about both the amount of training they do and the amount of diving

Nina

09-03-2007, 20:15

Oh dear.

I can see this turning in a perfect excuse for Andy "needing" to go to the pub!

Thanks very much for the help so far.

Badders (Dave)

09-03-2007, 20:52

I forgot to mention that bit, a part of the training is 'pub training' for when you can't go diving because the weather has blown the dive out :D

And you know you can't rely on the British weather. :rolleyes:

Badders

Tony Dwyer

10-03-2007, 00:37

Well if you are plugging...

Check the signature, we meet just off the the A130 on the Southend side of Chelmsford

Come on Pete, don't be shy. :)

The poor guy will be spoilt for choice. :)

Tony Dwyer

10-03-2007, 00:40

Cheers for the advice all.

I think I may take a bit of time doing both for a while and see which one suits me best. There is a lot I would like to do, but am conscious of trying to run before I walk, which is where the idea of constant slow learning is nice.

My fear for the PADI style is that it could become very similar to modern day education, where the course is about getting you passed without too much focus on retention of the details.

Or, to use the driving analogy above, "you pass your test, then you learn to d(r)ive".

I am indeed in Southend, so will consider that. I like the idea of a Friday night dive as it gives me a reason to get out the house on a Friday, and is a lon time after Saturday when I attempt to prop for my local rugby club, giving unsightly purple marks and cuts a chance to heal and prevent me scaring small children. :rolleyes:

[edit]

Just thought, would most clubs be okay with someone maybe wanting to watch/join in a session and/or the pub afterwards to have a chat with the members and see which club would be best? It looks like there are at least 4-5 in the area I would consider.

You'd be welcome. Who knows, someone might even buy you a pint. :)
Mines a Bombadier! Cheers. :)

PeteM

10-03-2007, 08:11

Come on Pete, don't be shy. :)

Shy is one thing I have never been accused of ;)

Chris Cherrington

10-03-2007, 08:31

Andy looks like you have got lots of offers of new friends to dive with. That's the really really good thing about joining a club.

Please though, don't get bogged down in the training thing. If you want to go to Fiji in September I would do the PADI AOW before you go and work through any additional club based training at your leisure. In fact do the AOW as soon as you finish the OW. If you get a decent club they will help with both the experience and the "retention".

I would hate for you to find that September arrives and you haven't finished the BSAC qualification in time - a very very real possibility.

PADI AOW would let you dive to 30m in the club, although you and they would probably want to take it easy at first - again a good thing.

Chris
(PS beware of Bombardier drinkers ;) we're a funny lot!!)

PeteM

10-03-2007, 16:56

Oh dear.

I can see this turning in a perfect excuse for Andy "needing" to go to the pub!

Thanks very much for the help so far.

Are you Andy's significant other?

If so don't worry a lot of branches (including Chelmsford) have lots of social events for which you will "need" a new outfit ;)

Nina

10-03-2007, 20:20

Are you Andy's significant other?

Yep

If so don't worry a lot of branches (including Chelmsford) have lots of social events for which you will "need" a new outfit ;)

I think I may be round to the idea of moving over to BSAC:D

Steve Grrr

10-03-2007, 20:26

Trouble is they are likely to expect a little black neoprene number!

Matt Smith

10-03-2007, 22:01

.....Or, to use the driving analogy above, "you pass your test, then you learn to d(r)ive"......
I crossed over to BSAC from PADI recently. I reached Rescue Diver and 6 specialities in a short amount of time!

It seemed to me that under PADI you can get the training and qualifications easily but gaining experience and honing your skills is left down to you after your courses and a minimal amount of diving required between courses.

I feel becoming "qualified" should have an experience element to a dive qualification not just training as is PADI course. A "measurable" and "examined" level of experience/competance should be a goal post to reach as part of each qualification.

This makes you take time to hone your skills and develop yourself as a diver and IMHO produces better divers in the long term. I feel the PADI system propogates "card collectors" and I don't feel cards are necessarily an accurate measure/indicator of a PADI divers expertise. I have seen some PADI DM's that don't dive as well as some PADI ADV Divers with a Drysuit qual simply because they have rushed to get quals without developing their diving slowly and in an appropriate time

Perhaps the true measure of someones diving abilites after training is to observe and make your own discernment as to who you'd like to dive with

I certainly wouldn't discern a PADI ADV OW Diver with only 9 logged dives (min req to acheive this level of qual) as advanced in any way! as for potentially being able to qualify as a PADI DM after only 50 dives and lead novices!!! - now that just scares me!

But then PADI is a business and money is the name of the game whereas BSAC is a club and not for profit so more time can be taken

I'd rather take it slower, become a good SAFE diver and not have a lightweight wallet - BSAC better all round for me

Just my 02's worth!!!!

.......Alternatively you could join a BSAC club and continue doing things with PADI. A lot of people nowadays hold multiple qualifications with multiple agencies. Me included.

I am fortunate that I know a very good PADI instructor whom is also a personal friend and can get courses frugally cheap. I'll be sticking with BSAC but may do other PADI courses on ad hoc basis secondary to furthering my diving with BSAC. Had I not started with PADI I probably would'nt consider starting with PADI now if I was a novice just starting out!

..........Do the Padi route then crossover at a later date......

Well that would work but it's an expensive way to do it! Think of all the money you could save by not spending it on PADI training. If you are strapped for cash any would be PADI course fees could go straight on dive kit and experience if with BSAC from the outset!

At the end of the day it's your choice, I sugar my tea maybe you don't - over to the individual!

Stormchaser

11-03-2007, 22:04

I have only been browsing this forum for 9 months and I am sure this type of thread has been discussed dozens of times, but regardless, I will add my opinion to the debate.

The arguments are the same, PADI rush you through your training, with BSAC it is slower and more thorough. I was at a smilar crossroads last summer, I had recently completed my AOW and was keen to do some diving in the UK. BSAC seemed the way forward but unfortunately after taking advice on here for a club to join, that is where my BSAC interest ended.

I contacted a club and although initially enthusiastic about me starting my Sports Diver that was it. No reply to emails or any messages I left on the answerphone. I do not doubt that this is typical of most clubs but first impressions count and I decided to continue the PADI route.

Got my drysuit speciality and then basically dived. Maybe I was lucky, the company I completed my Dry Suit course with had a real active dive scene and I have gradually built up my skill and experience in a variety of UK conditions. 50 dives later and my recent Rescue Diver qualification under my belt i consider myself still a beginner but basically a lot more confident under the water. I think this has been achieved by sensibily combining diving certifiaction with lots of diving.

I believe that I could cross over as a Sports Diver now and I am curious to know just how many dives in open water would i have completed to get to Sports Diver if i had joined BSAC from the beginner and on average, how long would of this took??

Edward

12-03-2007, 06:56

I believe that I could cross over as a Sports Diver ...

This is the mis-conception we are attempting to get rid off.

You would join a BSAC Branch, pay the appropriate fees, and dive on your PADI Rescue Diver certification.

Only, (And I mean only) if you wanted to undertake Dive Leader training would the equivalence kick in. But there is nothing preventing you from continuing your PADI coursed to Instructor and then there is a 'crossover' the a BSAC OWI by attending an Instructor foundation course.

The choice of how someone gets their diving training is down to the individual. BSAC is about going diving.

Regards

Edward

andywg

12-03-2007, 10:12

BSAC is about going diving.

And it is for this reason I will be joining. Now I have bought all my own gear, I want to use it! :D

Chris Cherrington

12-03-2007, 10:18

.......
The choice of how someone gets their diving training is down to the individual. BSAC is about going diving.

...

Hurrah... Wheeeeyy....

Well said Edward - I've tried often enough..

Now lets set about converting the dinosaurs... ;)

Chris

Michelle Haywood

12-03-2007, 13:22

What's the conversion rate for dinosaurs these days?

And what would you convert them into???

Michelle

andywg

12-03-2007, 13:48

And what would you convert them into???

Saturday night kebab meat.

Just think, One T rex could give enough meat for all the kebab shops in Southend!

Michelle Haywood

12-03-2007, 13:55

For about a year!!!

Just think of how big the grill would have to be....and how long the inside of the meat would have been there for before it was finally cooked and carved....yeuk!

I'd like to convert them into ballerinas personally.......just the idea of making some of them wear pink tutus appeals to my ongoing frustration and sense of injustice at their hands!! It's a mental image I use when talking to them that keeps me smiling.....scares the life out of them.

Michelle

Chris Cherrington

12-03-2007, 14:11

...
I'd like to convert them into ballerinas personally.......

http://www.allbrands.com/images/products_main/M_8227_adbmcbar2.jpg

Chris

Adrian Kelland

12-03-2007, 14:29

Richard Whitcombe

12-03-2007, 14:53

It seemed to me that under PADI you can get the training and qualifications easily but gaining experience and honing your skills is left down to you after your courses and a minimal amount of diving required between courses.

A lot of this is an argument for the club system as opposed to between 2 agencies.

There is no way on earth i'd have felt happy diving in the UK after 5 dives with an instructor and being qualified as an ocean diver, in the same way i doubt an open water diver after 4 dives would.
In the same way i wouldnt be happy after 10 dives and a Sports diver or 9 dives and AOW diver all with an instructor.

This is a situation you can get with both PADI courses and BSAC schools - pretty much any commercial enterprise where you pay for training.

The beauty of a club based system is things arent left like that, you're diving regulary with more experienced buddies and often instructors outside the regular training structure itself and therefore getting "real" diving experience at the same time. Yes its slow but i was far happy doing it this way. The club system (when it works...find a good club) is in my view a safer and much nicer way to start and continue diving and training as the structure of it allows or even demands experience is gained instead of just training then nothing.

Mike Halligan

13-03-2007, 18:53

A lot of this is an argument for the club system as opposed to between 2 agencies.

There is no way on earth i'd have felt happy diving in the UK after 5 dives with an instructor and being qualified as an ocean diver, in the same way i doubt an open water diver after 4 dives would.
In the same way i wouldnt be happy after 10 dives and a Sports diver or 9 dives and AOW diver all with an instructor.

This is a situation you can get with both PADI courses and BSAC schools - pretty much any commercial enterprise where you pay for training.

The beauty of a club based system is things arent left like that, you're diving regulary with more experienced buddies and often instructors outside the regular training structure itself and therefore getting "real" diving experience at the same time. Yes its slow but i was far happy doing it this way. The club system (when it works...find a good club) is in my view a safer and much nicer way to start and continue diving and training as the structure of it allows or even demands experience is gained instead of just training then nothing.

Richard,

Would that it were so simple. Regrettably, some clubs have in the past been so parochial that they demanded every skill completed and signed off in a BSAC school was to be repeated. :o

As Michelle has said, we need a conversion system for dinosaurs. Otherwise, they will cause us to haemorrhage members. :eek:

Richard Whitcombe

13-03-2007, 19:05

I agree, hence the "when it works" part in my comment :)

Chris aka divingchef

13-03-2007, 22:36

Saturday night kebab meat.

Just think, One T rex could give enough meat for all the kebab shops in Southend!

I did a 3 day stint at a Southend school,,,,dont think it would last long !!:D