Diving cylinders on ferries

[tony J]

Has anyone had any (recent ) problems with carrying pressurised vessels on ferries.

I fly hot air balloons and we have been having trouble with carrying propane due to recent changes in eu law (and the interprettation of that law)

I now can only go on a passenger ferry if all my cylinders are empty (and purged)

My cylinders are 45 litres and filled with propane (a bit more dangerous than a 10 litre cylinder of air).

In the discussion we have had, messages like 'divers have to empty their cylinders' have popped up, which is obviously untrye ??. As balloons we are easy to spot, so have declare our cargo. A diver would not be so visible.

It appears than anyone carrying pressure cargo must fill in a DGN (dangerous goods notice ) and carry the appropriate (25cm wide) stickers. I wonder if we should be proactive about doing something about it and talking BSAC to MGCA

As I said rules and regs changes a few years ago and it was only last year than the MGCA started enforcing the rules (before that the ferry companies did what they wanted).

The worse case scenario is being turned back at dover with a van full of cylinders as they are not properly stored.

You probably do not know that there is a maximum of 3 gas cylinders per vehicle (even those little half litre ones)

Tony

[PeteM]

This is not just a problem with ferries. Technically you should pull over into the dangerous load area (the one where the tankers wait for an escort) to use the Dartford crossing when carrying cylinders, not that anyone does.

[Chris Cherrington]

We use Speed Ferries and their rules are no more than two "gas cylinders". They do not need to be emptied (Speedferries are also cheaper than POSL)

I have always take "gas" to be inflamable. We have made the crossing with two twins two singles and two stages on a couple of occassions!! However, the ferry companies have never looked in the car to be honest so we have never had a problem.

Chris

[John Williams]

You probably do not know that there is a maximum of 3 gas cylinders per vehicle (even those little half litre ones)

Guess that buying the 4-pack of soda fountain cartridges (is it "Sparklets Bulbs"?) in the big continental booze markets is a no-no then!

Don't even think about getting busy with the fizzy (Soda Stream!)

Especially if you've got a 6-pack of squirty cream in the car too!

...still...gives you an excuse not to pack the deodorant!

(just got to choose between the WD-40 and the silicone spray now!)

Ain't legislation an ass?

John

[tony J]

We use Speed Ferries and their rules are ...
Chris
One of my points is that in the old days (pre november 2005) each ferry company had its own rule for 'gas cylinders' on passenger ferries, now there are MGCA rules.

There is a big difference in the type of 'gas cyclinder' as it comes under a different category, and can mean a different place on the ferry (I usually end up on the outside deck !). Propane is class 2.1,. You have to list the class on the Dangerous goods notice. And have different stickers for each one (4 * 25mm for each class)

I would all plead ignorant at the moment, as the form filling can add an extra hour on to loading time, and there are a limited number of places for dangerous cargo.

I use norfolk line (cheaper than P and O) as you can't get a 3.5 metre trailer on speed ferries (I think the corners are too tight)

Tony

[Keith Lawrence]

Oh joy (NOT!) :( I bet that one goes down a bundle with the campers heading over to the continent every summer! I've flagged this one up to the guys at HQ who are in constant contact with the MCA et al, it will probably be well after the new year break that we can get a correct answer, but I'll try and get this one clarified for you.

Cheers

Keith L

[Chris Cherrington]

We were in the UK about 3 weeks ago. There were all the usual camper vans caravans and so on (on the boat). There are less this time of year for sure but they are there.

I'm sure that there are all sorts of regulations if you want to be pedantic. I believe the carriage of dangerous goods act requies you to have black and white quarters on the tank but I saw all white ones for sale in Kent Diving on our visit...

For most divers I'm sure its easier just to rent when you get to where you are going. The French and Norwiegens will not fill tanks unless hydroed in the last two years and most continental outfits include the tank hire in the dive price.

I cannot find anything on any of the company websites. I think its a non-issue.

Chris

[Alistair Reynolds]

Hi Tony,
Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention. It is often not until our members bring these situations to our notice that we really appreciate there is a problem.

I shall phone our MCA contact for some advice and discuss it at the next meeting in January.

Alistair Reynolds
Technical Manager

[DannyB]

This is not just a problem with ferries. Technically you should pull over into the dangerous load area (the one where the tankers wait for an escort) to use the Dartford crossing when carrying cylinders, not that anyone does.

And if you go to a little known layby just before the dartford crossing you will find vans taking all kinds of plates off....

The thing that always concerned me is that they get all the DG vehicles together in a convoy and escort them through together? So Petrol Tanker follows Radioactives follows compressed gas follows explosives follows petrol tanker follows flammable gas and so on, anyone want to follow this convoy?

Having been driver of one of said vehicles stuck in the middle it was one of the scariest 5 minutes of my life!

Danny

[Darren27]

I would not put warning triangles on your car while driving to and from the ferry terminal. Transport of dangerous goods by road in the UK and most of Europe comes under the ADR regulations. The important bit is that dangerous goods can only be driven by a driver holding the relevant class ADR licence. The ADR licence will take several days to complete, there is the core module and exam (1.5 days) and then a module for each class of goods (1 day each). Failure to have your ADR licence would lead to a big fine if stopped. However as a non commerical/individual driver you do not require the licence, but if you show the warning signs you have effectively opted into ADR.

Transport by sea is under IMDG regulations and that is different again. If you think getting a couple of porpane cylinders across the channel is difficult, try carrying radioactive material, you would not believe the paperwork involved in that one! In my experience the gimps who work in the ferry companies havent a clue what the official company policy is on transporting potentially dangerous goods. You can speak to the same person on two days and get two different answers, even then they will change their mind if the weather is not what they had hoped for, or they hadnt got any last night, didnt like the football results etc.

One point to remember is that if you are carrying the propane for your ballone in a commercial capacity, then you should really be complying with ADR/IMDG. Most divers would probably be in a personal capacity and I understand are not subject to ADR/IMDG but must still comply with the operating companies own policy.

HTH

Darren

[Andy Botten]

We did a club trip to the Scillies earlier this year.
As a club we booked a small container and all the kit went in that.
Other clubs/groups were doing the same. I think they stayed on deck rather than in the hold.
Talking to the skipper of the dive boat previously, he said he could not get O2 for Nitrox because of DG.
So the Scillonian did not see Air cylinders as an issue but other gasses are.

[Gareth Davies]

I've been aware that different operators have different rules. But have always found that it's best to be ignorant to these. I've not been stopped and this is on ferries to Norway, Ireland, France & Orkneys.

I've taken numerous cylinders, O2 & compressor and not been asked once what's in the vehicle. I just make sure it's all stashed in the boot hidden from view, once the trailors on I'm sure they couldn't be bothered doing a stop check.

Fingers crossed as I'm back off to france with the gear in April.

Gareth