Ice Diving SDC - Feb '07 [Archive] - BSAC Scuba Diving Forums

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Ben Panter

02-11-2006, 11:29

I've arranged to run an Ice Diving SDC in Taucherhof (www.taucherhof.de), Aitrag, Germany for the weekend of the 17/18th Feb, 2007. Unfortunately the group that I had booked in can no longer make the trip, so I'm opening the course to individuals or groups. Entry requirements are: current BSAC member, Sports Diver with at least 20 post qualification dives and drysuit. The course consists of a morning of lectures, an afternoon of local diving and then on Sunday a whole day of Ice Diving high in the Alps, where we can guarantee working from the ice surface. We've measured the visibility at the lake we use in previous years at 80m: The photo below is a crop of one taken from a hole 50m from the one in the picture....

263

Some photos of a previous course at:
http://www.benpanter.co.uk/diving/ice1/

You will be responsible for getting yourself to Munich, we will meet at the airport on the Friday night and I will arrange transport to get to the dive base. It's a place that we've used for these courses for three years now, very comfortable with excellent English-speaking staff, equipment and on site sauna / hot tub!

Based on 6 students and 2 instructors, the cost will be roughly £220 plus flights (or, if you prefer, you can drive) and Munich accommodation on Sunday night. This breaks down as follows:

Transport, diving, food & accommodation costs: £120
Dinner on Friday in pub: £15
BSAC course fee: £12
BSAC regional costs: £70

These costs are mostly upper limits, everything will be confirmed within a week of the course filling.

Please feel free to either PM or email me if you would like further information. I'd like to make a yes/no decision on this trip in the next week or two so the quicker the better.

Thanks,

Ben

Chris Cherrington

02-11-2006, 11:49

We might drive over to say Hi and have a dive, but not interested in the training bit, if that helps with the numbers.

Chris

Adrian Kelland

02-11-2006, 11:57

Ben,

If flying is involved, are there plenty of sets of appropriate cylinder available?

Adrian

Ben Panter

02-11-2006, 12:04

Hi Adrian,

Yeup. Cylinders with Y/H valves and weights availiable on site and included in the price. Participants will need to bring their suit, BCD and two sets of first stage + second stage. It may be possible to hire BCD on site if that turns out to be cheaper than bringing it along.

Regs should have been recently serviced, or at least had their filters changed - the filter seems to be the most critical component, as it has lots of very small holes which suffer from icing.

We've had people do the course on rebreathers in the past, it is tricky but certainly possible, and helps keep the diver warmer.

Ben

Ben Panter

02-11-2006, 12:06

Luke K

02-11-2006, 12:59

We've had people do the course on rebreathers in the past, it is tricky but certainly possible, and helps keep the diver warmer.

Ben

We went diving with them ealier this year, We didn't do the course but the center took us diving and the Viz was amazing.

http://www.ttnt.co.uk/diving/images/IceDivingJan2006Luuuke/GrownUpSACPhotoGalleryIceD/index.html

also good for rebreather :rolleyes:

http://www.apdiving.com/php/gallerydetail.php?imageID=800

Fran Duinker

02-11-2006, 12:59

Hi Ben,
You mention accomodation on the Sunday night, what about the Friday or Saturday night?
I'm very tempted, just need to convince my other half. We would drive over as we both have re-breathers.
What time would we have to be there on the Saturday morning? and what time does the course finish on the Sunday? just looking at driving over and back then at night as the roads are slightly quieter. Also how many days we would have to take of work.
Cheers
Fran

Luke K

02-11-2006, 13:09

What time would we have to be there on the Saturday morning? and what time does the course finish on the Sunday? just looking at driving over and back then at night as the roads are slightly quieter. Also how many days we would have to take of work.
Cheers
Fran

To give you an idea we drove last time, Leaving UK Thursday morning and returning Monday evening. The full report can be seen below to wet the appetite. Well worth the travel.

http://www.ttnt.co.uk/diving/images/IceDivingJan2006a/triprep.html

Ben Panter

02-11-2006, 13:38

Superb - that has to be the most innovative use for a shovel I've ever seen! Glad to see you had the good weather.

cheers,

Ben

Ben Panter

02-11-2006, 13:42

Hi Fran,

Friday and Saturday night's accomodation included in the package from Taucherhof. We start early on the Saturday, and it's a long day so would certainly advise arriving Friday evening. The fastest I've ever done it from Calais is ten hours, and that is some driving... also be aware that winter conditions in Germany are serious, and that winter tyres or snow chains can be essential when the weather closes in. I'd suggest setting off from UK Friday morning and getting there in the evening, then probably start driving home on the Sunday evening after the course and stay enroute somewhere in France / Germany - usually travel lodge / Formula 1's are pretty reasonable (in stark contrast to the UK!).

Cheers,

Ben

Luke K

02-11-2006, 14:05

Unfortunately what the photo didn’t show was me stacking it at the bottom of the slope and one rebreather cover requiring reconstructive surgery…….

:o

Chris Cherrington

02-11-2006, 14:18

Hi Chris,

Taucherhof will be happy if you've got a qualification - and if you've already got an instructor ticket of some sort I'd be very interested in getting you to be an ice diving instructor - there are plenty of locations in Belgium to dive!

cheers,

Ben

Hi mate,

We have an IANTD Cavern/Overhead Environment ticket and already ice dive here in the lake. Dunno if that counts. The missus would like to go, so if we can tie up the loose ends I'm happy.

We use cave dive technique with a reel and not the USN/PADI tethered diver technique.

I'd like to do the OWI as my nephew is getting near to an age where he will soon be able to dive. If I do the BSAC SDC does that go through automatically like the PADI Speciality Instructor?? (Forgive my PADI background..:p) (Does that mean I have to put something in my old QRB - I was gonna flog it on ebay :D)

Chris

Fran Duinker

03-11-2006, 10:47

Hi Luke,
I like your report :)
Getting out sounds interesting!
Hi Ben, we would be very interested and would like more details, there's 2 of us that want to go. We've got a Land Rover Discovery so it should survive the roads and the weather

Chris Cherrington

03-11-2006, 11:10

...We've got a Land Rover Discovery so it should survive the roads and the weather

It depends on the tyres. Four wheel drive is a great asset in snow, whether it is a horrid gas-guzzling SUV :) or a 4X4 Fiat Panda, but without the tyres much of the advantage is lost.

Drivers of FWD also have a tendancy to forget that while the vehicle will have more traction its ability to stop is just the same as any other vehicle. A big SUV (like a disco) is also far harder to stop since there is more weight.

Ben is right - the conditions can be very difficult and make it hard to travel much over 70khm even on the motorway. Snow tyres or chains are essential and a legal requirement on some roads.

Drive safe and dive safe.

Chris

Ben Panter

03-11-2006, 11:16

Hi Fran,

That's great! I'll let you know as soon as I get some more interest. I'll be in touch via your forums email address.

cheers,

Ben

Dave Woodward

03-11-2006, 14:06

Hi Ben,
Is that me and Mark in the picture, or someone else?
Still can't get back to do it, but may have a chance to do Lake Biakal(?) in Siberia. Have to catch it before the ice gets more than a metre thick though! You're welcome to come out, there is a train goes right past!

Have fun

Dave

Ben Panter

03-11-2006, 14:26

Hi Dave,

I think so - from the course in 2005. Biakal sounds interesting... and I've always fancied that train journey!

Hope you're doing well,

Ben

Fran Duinker

05-11-2006, 10:32

Hi Ben,
I spoke to Steve my partner, and he's convinced it would be a good idea!
How do we book onto the course, what deposit do you need?:)
Cheers
Fran

David Walker

05-11-2006, 11:45

Owwww if only I had time and money :(

I'll start a queue for the 2008 course though! :D

David

Paul Rosendale

05-11-2006, 20:45

Hi Ben,

See you there in Feb. Our dive trip report from last years course can be found on our club web site if anyone wants to read it. WWW.hs-ac.co.uk click on 'members dives'
great fun.

Cheers

Paul

Ben Panter

06-11-2006, 10:42

Hi Fran,

That's great. I now have three spaces filled, the course is going to happen. I will let you know further details towards the end of the week, but briefly: transport you book yourself, the BSAC component goes straight to BSAC and the accomodation etc. in Germany goes direct to them via bank transfer. Unfortunately no refunds will be possible unless the space can be filled, and standard travel insurance diving insurance is required.

Thanks,

Ben

Fran Duinker

06-11-2006, 11:05

Hi Ben,
Brilliant, Is that three spaces including us, if there are three more spaces I know a couple of people who will be interested in the course.
Cheers
Fran

Ben Panter

06-11-2006, 11:22

Hi Fran,

Currently there are three spaces taken including yourselves, 3 further spaces to be filled.

Ben

Fran Duinker

06-11-2006, 15:04

Thnaks for that Ben,
There are several people I know who would be interested, I'll give them a ring
Cheers
Fran

Nigel Hewitt

06-11-2006, 16:16

Chris Cherrington

06-11-2006, 17:20

Hummm....
I have the dirty great SUV and a rebreather but no snow chains. I'll take advice on this one. Do I fly and use OC or drive and go CCR?
Perhaps somebody is down my way and would share the drive?

Red Sea on Wednesday <grin>. With 30Kgs of excess baggage. <sigh>

Flying/driving doesn't make much odds CO2 wise.... (a passenger halves it too :))

The lakes are not that deep - so its personal preference...

The missus and I drove from Switzerland to the UK winter before last when we were in Italy - with regular tyres..... We stopped off with friends near Munich and the main roads were OK, but the little ones were horrendous. You just slid about all over. 4WD would have made it better, but for sure Pirelli P6000 are not much cop in the snow!!

(I know its near impossible to buy chains in the UK but our local DIY place was selling them last winter at €30 a pair... anywhere off the ferry would do them. The "Feu Vert" chain (http://www.feuvert.fr/Content/services/produitsservices/index.html) sell them cheap and have lots of places near the ferry ports....

Chris

edit - Feu Vert mostly 50 euro http://www.feuvert.fr/Content/services/actualitespromotions/actualites/dossierchaineneige/index.html
Maybe more for the "gas guzzler" :D (oh and four's best on 4wd... :D)

Ben Panter

06-11-2006, 17:50

My own experience of winter driving has been with deep tread winter tyres and no snow chains. And it's fine. The biggest problem you face is that the driving is very different to what you will experience in the UK - drivers on the autobahns continue to drive at 80mph despite the fact that snow is falling. Whether the winter tyres are good enough or not for that is up for debate! As Chris says, buy chains over there because every big supermarket stocks them and they are a shed load cheaper than in the UK. Having said that I don't know if that holds for big SUV tyres, but the number of X5s whizzing around suggests to me there is probably a market.

I think, and this is a big think, that you will be fine without winter tyres as long as you don't rush it. The mountain stuff all happens from Taucherhof's transport, the main problem you have is getting back from the village to the autobahn on Sunday night. I'm sure that Taucherhof will be happy to let you have another night's B&B if there is a problem at a very low price, and the roads will be cleared by 9am - this was true last year on a Sunday when we had two feet of snow overnight. Alpine Germany is a country that deals with snow for 4 months of the year rather than 4 nights - it's a different set up to here!

Ben

Chris Cherrington

06-11-2006, 18:04

.. - drivers on the autobahns continue to drive at 80mph despite the fact that snow is falling. Whether the winter tyres are good enough or not for that is up for debate! ..

We followed a guy for a while (then I chickened out) with a 4WD Audi A4 last year coming back from Liege high up in the Ardennes. I don't know what tyres they were but the tracks behind the car were nearly clear dry tarmac. If I could have caught the guy at the service station I would have had a look and bought some....

Deeply impressed. The plumes of snow made it look like a jet-ski.

We overtook a Spanish lorry driver (the trailer said Murcia) and his eyes were so far out of his head they were stuck on the inside of the windscreen :) He was doing about 10kmh with the hazards on. Not sure the poor guy had ever seen snow before :D

Chris

Ben Panter

06-11-2006, 18:17

Yeup - even though I've moved back I still have mine on the car. The number of times a year we have serious snow is small, but the increased traction on cold, wet roads is worth the slight degradation in fuel economy.

The biggest problem I had was when I was parked up for a week at 2000m. It got as warm as -13 C during the day, and down to -20 C at night. To my suprise after a little encouragement the car did start once I had dug it out, and gave no further problems for the duration!

Ben

Chris Cherrington

06-11-2006, 18:34

..The number of times a year we have serious snow is small, but the increased traction on cold, wet roads is worth the slight degradation in fuel economy.
..

At least you're in Scotland. In England they close the roads if the snow is over 1cm. Then you have to argue with a idiot copper in a Range Rover who claims he couldn't get through with 4WD.. :)

Chris

Adrian Kelland

06-11-2006, 22:19

Permission grudgingly given Ben - put me on your list please.

Adrian

Ben Panter

06-11-2006, 22:38

Great news - 2 spaces left!

Cheers,

Ben

David Walker

06-11-2006, 22:53

Alpine Germany is a country that deals with snow for 4 months of the year rather than 4 nights - it's a different set up to here!

Hehe yeah, I remember when I first moved down to the Midlands from the North East... it was only the lightest covering of snow, but there were cars sliding all over the place! Always easy to tell where people came from - some were "wow, look at the snow, its amazing, yey for snow", and others were "is that it?". I couldn't understand how people couldn't just get on with driving around :(

Clarke Duncan

06-11-2006, 22:55

Hi Ben,
Fran mentioned this course to me and I would like to book on it as well. I also have a rebreather. Looking forward to it already :)
Cheers, Clarke

Fran Duinker

06-11-2006, 23:17

Hi Ben,
I spoke to another friend of mine Clive Macro who also wants to book onto the course, he also has a rebreather.
Cheers
Fran

Ben Panter

06-11-2006, 23:33

OK. That is the course full then - excellent. Thanks for your interest all!

I'm away on a work trip till Thursday evening, I may be online but I can't promise anything. By then hopefully I will be able to give you more exact details of how to pay for the course and joining information. I'll take emails from your forum registrations, Fran if you could send me Clive's in a PM that would be excellent.

cheers,

Ben

Adrian Kelland

16-11-2006, 19:28