An insurance must no!.

[ray]

Hi.

Does any member who dives off private, or club ribs, make sure that the boat owner Carrie's Member to Member insurance as part of the boat insurance.

If not you are putting yourself as a diver, or as an helmsman at risk. BSAC insurance does not cover you for this kind of eventuality.

Or do you no different?

[John Williams]

Can one BS-AC member claim personal injury or damage to property caused by another BS-AC member?
Yes, if it's as a result of negligence and results in a legal claim, this is called "Member to Member Liability" and is stated in the policy.

Lifted from:

http://www.bsac.org/services/insurancefaq.htm

I've always beleived that this is one of the key points of the BSAC insurance...and that member to member liability is in place regardless of what equipment you use (or who owns it) - as long as it complies with BSAC rules/regulations/recommendations (or whatever you want to call them!)

Of course - if the "fault" lies with the equipment and not the member then you would not have a claim against the member!

(or some such legalese get out clause!)

John

[ray]

Can one BS-AC member claim personal injury or damage to property caused by another BS-AC member?
Yes, if it's as a result of negligence and results in a legal claim, this is called "Member to Member Liability" and is stated in the policy.

Lifted from:

http://www.bsac.org/services/insurancefaq.htm

I've always beleived that this is one of the key points of the BSAC insurance...and that member to member liability is in place regardless of what equipment you use (or who owns it) - as long as it complies with BSAC rules/regulations/recommendations (or whatever you want to call them!)

Of course - if the "fault" lies with the equipment and not the member then you would not have a claim against the member!

(or some such legalese get out clause!)

John

Hi John.

Thanks for your reply.

One bit I would like firmed up please.

you are in a private boat not owned or belonging to any BSAC club, and there is a member to member incident involving any person voluntarily going diving off the same boat, BSAC or other, would BSAC insurance cover such an incident, or would the boat owner have to carry his own Member to Member liability clause to cover him/herself in such an eventuality?.

I understand that if you hit someone in the water from another boat/ club etc 3rd party would kick in automatically, your own boat insurance or BSAC 3rd party insurance whatever/whoever has the blame, its the getting out voluntarily of your own boat, unless it is to save life or similar emergency, thats the funny bit!.

Are you still covered by the BSAC insurance in the above scenario's?.

Official response please, plain English (With no weasel words).

[John Williams]

Official response please

Then, since I'm not in a position to offer such a response...I, regretfully, must dedcline to respond!

However - if the liability is member to member then I beleive that you are covered.

if the liability is boat to member (the boat failing causes damange to someone/something) then the boat must be insured.

If the member driving the boat does something daft that causes harm then it is the member who is at fault and not the boat...so cover would apply

In my *non-official* understanding of the situation.

John
NB
Perhaps a forum is not the best place to ask for an official response?
Perhaps an email to HQ? ... but feel free to ask permission to post the response for us all to see!

[Andy Wade]

Perhaps a forum is not the best place to ask for an official response?
Perhaps an email to HQ? ... but feel free to ask permission to post the response for us all to see!

Hmmm...
I'd venture that the public forums are precisely the best place for an official response to a fairly innocuous question.
I thought that was the point of the forums anyway.
If it was specifically to do with BSAC business, then the Members forums are probably the place, but this is a pretty average question about the insurance.
By the way, I think your answer is correct anyway john.

[Keith Lawrence]

Official response please, plain English (With no weasel words).OK – you want an official response, I’ll give you one as a BSAC Council member. You have asked for a black or white answer to a hypothetical situation, here’s you official answer – it’s grey!

That will always be the official response that you will get to such questions, quite simply because we are incapable of answering in any other manner. It is not for you, me, HQ or an insurance specialist to answer your question “yes” or “no” – only a court of law can answer it, given a real situation and a real court case.

Sorry mate, but we really, honestly, genuinely cannot give you a better answer than that. Simply because the specific, exact circumstances, given all of the millions of possible variations on one particular case, have not been before a court of law. Only a court of law can answer your question, nobody else can.

Cheers

Keith L
BSAC Council Member

[ray]

Hi.

Well chaps thanks for your replies, me thinks the best action would have to be belt and braces, pay extra on my boat insurance and have it written on the schedule that member to member cover is included, which I already have, :confused: and trust in the 3rd party BSAC cover a well..

The only person who the member to member cover does not cover is me as the boat owner, as the underwriter bluntly points out. YOU CANT SUE YOURSELF!.:p hey ho you can but try:D

I will have to make sure somebody else chops my head off, then erindoors will be OK:p

[Philip Smith]

Ray,

I am not official either, but this is one of the few areas of diving activity where BSAC has a longstanding RULE rather than a recommendation:

BSAC Rule 5E (http://www.bsac.org/services/rules/bsacrules.htm): All watercraft (other than hand propelled watercraft) used by a Branch or by any member of the Club on Branch or Club activities must be insured for Third Party risks with a minimum indemnity limit of an amount stipulated by Council from time to time. All policies in existence now or in the future must be endorsed to indemnify Council for the time being and any employer of BSAC and affiliated Clubs and Branches.

As I understand it, the normal members' 3rd party insurance does not cover use of boats (BOH 1.5.6). I largely agree with John's summary, except that I think that damage to a third party (member or not) due to a fault by the coxswain would be referred to the boat insurance (like car insurance).

Phil S.

[ray]

Ray,

I am not official either, but this is one of the few areas of diving activity where BSAC has a longstanding RULE rather than a recommendation:



As I understand it, the normal members' 3rd party insurance does not cover use of boats (BOH 1.5.6). I largely agree with John's summary, except that I think that damage to a third party (member or not) due to a fault by the coxswain would be referred to the boat insurance (like car insurance).

Phil S.


Thanks Phil.

Me thinks it really wants firming up a bit, as the boss said it is a grey area, but it is a little to grey!.:rolleyes: