BSAC web pages out of date problems?

[James - Narked@50]

I am sure it is apparent to everyone that we have a serious problem with many of the links of info being totally out of date on the BSAC site.

For example: Try looking up info on the NW coach or the regional web site - the site was last updated over 2 years ago and is still advertising courses from 2004.

Does anyone "in the know" have an idea what is happening with these as it is literally impossible to get "accurate" information in some cases and puts over an amateur and unreliable appearance for the BSAC as a whole?

I know we are gathering club info though project Neptune, but surely stuff like the regional websites can be done immediately?

James

[Adrian Kelland]

I know we are gathering club info though project Neptune, but surely stuff like the regional websites can be done immediately?

James
Hi James,

The problem is 'Who by', there just are not enough volunteers, especially with the right skills.

I 'look after' the SW site, it too is out of date. I hope to be able to start using a CMS soon, which will make it technically easier to keep up to date. Those updating will not have to know about HTML and how to construct links. Or upload via FTP. However my time is limited too.

The trouble is - it still needs someone to do it. I have done the same for my club site, but few if any members submit news or dive logs. I have got a bit fed up with trying to keep it live and changing.

Adrian

[Sean Gribben]

Are you volunteering James?
If so I am sure we could use your help if you have the expert know how.

Sean

[James - Narked@50]

Are you volunteering James?
If so I am sure we could use your help if you have the expert know how.

Sean

Sadly this is not one of my fortes :confused:

I thought with a membership of thousands, and an HQ to boot, we may have had the resources to do this. The web is becoming the first point of call for people looking for information on anything, the price of an advert in Dive would go far on this.

James

[Steve Pearson]

Hi James

I can only speak for the NW website, and as you rightly say is very much out of date. The problem in the past as has been stated is one of volunteers with the necessary skills to keep it updated.

This has now been addressed and in the near future the NW website will have a new look, and be up to date.

I have been appointed REDS coordinator for the region as one of my hats so watch the site for news of the large multi-branch exped being organised for September 06, it will be an exciting and fun opportunity for several hundred divers to get out and have some fun.

Steve

PS. I've put you forward as an area coach and you'll be notified of the meeting in February. If you haven't been given details by mid January contact me and I'll ensure you get them. :D

[James - Narked@50]

Hi James
PS. I've put you forward as an area coach and you'll be notified of the meeting in February. If you haven't been given details by mid January contact me and I'll ensure you get them. :D

No Problem Steve.

If I can cause a degree of controversy on the internet, just imagine how much trouble I can get into in person. LOL :D

James

[Alan Taylor]

I am sure it is apparent to everyone that we have a serious problem with many of the links of info being totally out of date on the BSAC site.

For example: Try looking up info on the NW coach or the regional web site - the site was last updated over 2 years ago and is still advertising courses from 2004.

Does anyone "in the know" have an idea what is happening with these as it is literally impossible to get "accurate" information in some cases and puts over an amateur and unreliable appearance for the BSAC as a whole?

I know we are gathering club info though project Neptune, but surely stuff like the regional websites can be done immediately?

James

Suppose it depends on what your looking for. Its not all doom & gloom.

Saw course advertised in the BSAC 2006 programme enclosed with DIVE in November . Used the links for NW coaching team as advertised w/e 11th Nov. Received a reply and application form, I think from Richard Northing on 16th Nov. Now that in my mind is 'up to date' and 'accurate' information. Still waiting for a reply to the same query from the other side of the pennines, but i am sure they will get round to it in time.

BSAC run by members for members gets there in the end?

[Alan Taylor]

Hi James

I can only speak for the NW website, and as you rightly say is very much out of date. The problem in the past as has been stated is one of volunteers with the necessary skills to keep it updated.

This has now been addressed and in the near future the NW website will have a new look, and be up to date.

I have been appointed REDS coordinator for the region as one of my hats so watch the site for news of the large multi-branch exped being organised for September 06, it will be an exciting and fun opportunity for several hundred divers to get out and have some fun.

Steve

PS. I've put you forward as an area coach and you'll be notified of the meeting in February. If you haven't been given details by mid January contact me and I'll ensure you get them. :D

Further to my last,

I thought i would share the attachement with you all. These laws can fit one and all me included. I knew i had them tucked away in a safe place. If i remember correctly they come from those woolly backed NW divers up in the frozen wastes of Saddleworth, don't forget to breathout on the way home.

The thought and sight of several hundred? BSAC divers together having fun should have the opposition 'Diving for cover' (sorry).

Best of British with the plans, will watch out with interest.

[MattS]

If i remember correctly they come from those woolly backed NW divers up in the frozen wastes of Saddleworth, don't forget to breathout on the way home.I can tell you somewhat catagorically that the rules orginate with Southsea Sub-Aqua Club - circa 1996

Here is the original.
General Laws of Diving for the Cynic (http://www.southseascuba.co.uk/SSAC_diving_laws.html)

Now I wonder who thought them up ;)

[Alan Taylor]

As i said elsewhere the old onesare still the best. All those laws and the Mary Rose.;)

[Marcus Allen]

Just thought you would like to know that we have just appointed a CMS provider and are now carrying out a complete rewrite of bsac.org. If anyone has any helpful suggestions please email them to the project manager Jim Watson. jimw@bsac.com Hopefully we can address as many of the issues with the current site as possible. Much of the content is being done by volunteers and offers of help will be most welcome.

Marcus

[John Williams]

Just thought you would like to know that we have just appointed a CMS provider and are now carrying out a complete rewrite of bsac.org. If anyone has any helpful suggestions please email them to the project manager Jim Watson. jimw@bsac.com Hopefully we can address as many of the issues with the current site as possible. Much of the content is being done by volunteers and offers of help will be most welcome.

Marcus

What's a "CMS provider"?

John

[Adrian Kelland]

CMS - Content Management System

The problem with web pages is that specialist software or knowledge (usually both) is required to make a page with links and upload it. Up load by lots of people can be fun.

A CMS allows user to add and edit a page on the website itself. Much less specialist knowledge although learning of to use the CMS is still required.

Depend on the system, different people can be given permissions to edit certain areas. So marketing could edit their parts, but not the training areas. Also pages can be submitted for approval, and only be published (visible to all of us) once approved. Pages can be set to only display for a certain period etc.

Page templates are used to control look and feel. If BSAC want to change the site design, just change the template. The content remains the same.

HTH John, its just a start.

Adrian

[Andy Wade]

CMS - Content Management System

The problem with web pages is that specialist software or knowledge (usually both) is required to make a page with links and upload it. Up load by lots of people can be fun.

A CMS allows user to add and edit a page on the website itself. Much less specialist knowledge although learning of to use the CMS is still required.

Depend on the system, different people can be given permissions to edit certain areas. So marketing could edit their parts, but not the training areas. Also pages can be submitted for approval, and only be published (visible to all of us) once approved. Pages can be set to only display for a certain period etc.

Page templates are used to control look and feel. If BSAC want to change the site design, just change the template. The content remains the same.

HTH John, its just a start.

Adrian

So... is it a bit like a Wiki but without trolls?

[Adrian Kelland]

So... is it a bit like a Wiki but without trolls?
Yes Andy, at its simplest. More control over who edits what.

[Ben Panter]

The fundamental concept in CMS is seperating the content from the presentation. A better analogy might be these forums - there is a huge code base running a big database which stores all the information that makes pages as you request them, compiles "new post" lists, sets the interface to be the one you've asked for, communicates with the BSAC membership server... blah blah blah. As a user, you don't have to have a clue about all this stuff - you put your post in, type a smilie or two and, hey presto, it appears - with all links on all other pages updated automatically. CMS is a term which covers this sort of thing applied to a normal website. For example, if the date of a SDC was incorrect and needed fixing, rather than getting a tech-literate person to fix the html page, check their code, upload it to the server etc. etc., a non-techie authorised user could log in, change the date, log out. Everything else would be automatic and [hopefully!] dead links become a thing of the past.

Hope that helps,

Ben

[Keith Lawrence]

Ben's forums analogy is very good! That's actually the problem we face right now with our main web sites, especially bsac.org. Imagine what it would be like if you had to submit your forum post to a technician to post it for you, if you wanted to edit it or do a quick reply you would have to go through the whole process again. You know what you need to say and what needs doing, you simply lack the skills and the resources to do it! That is exactly the problem we have with the likes of bsac.org, we know all about them, we know things need updating, but the people who "own" the information and know the right words simply don't have the means to do it themselves.

That is why we are putting in a CMS system, it is being set up right now, I was talking again to the company involved last week. It will have all of the bits that have been mentioned above, permissions, areas that people have responsibility for, publishing control, templates... So what it will do is put the capability of actually updating the web site directly in the hands of the people who are responsible for the content (with the appropriate training of course!).

There's been an awful lot going on in the past few years, your Council have known about all of these problems for some time and we set about solving them, that takes time with all of the planning and the finance and resources to do it. You are now beginning to see the results, we stopped just talking about it some time ago and started doing it, we have been for about the past year at least :) These new web servers and these new forums are all part of it, we needed the new web servers before we could run the type of CMS that we needed. Then of course there is the investment at HQ with all of the new systems there and Project Neptune progressing very well indeed.

So... it's all in hand! It's all going on right now. Your current Council are building upon the firm foundations laid by the previous Councils and are right in the middle of delivering it all. It will still be the same BSAC, but it will be a modern 21st Century club with modern 21st Century facilities to server the needs of modern 21st Century members. We'll still be doing everything that we do now (modernised where needed of course) but we will be doing it a lot better and a lot faster than we have been able to in the past.

Welcome to the 21st Century BSAC - watch this space as they say :)

Keith L
BSAC Council Member

[Andy Wade]

Ben's forums analogy is very good! That's actually the problem we face right now with our main web sites, especially bsac.org. Imagine what it would be like if you had to submit your forum post to a technician to post it for you, if you wanted to edit it or do a quick reply you would have to go through the whole process again. You know what you need to say and what needs doing, you simply lack the skills and the resources to do it! That is exactly the problem we have with the likes of bsac.org, we know all about them, we know things need updating, but the people who "own" the information and know the right words simply don't have the means to do it themselves.

That is why we are putting in a CMS system, it is being set up right now, I was talking again to the company involved last week. It will have all of the bits that have been mentioned above, permissions, areas that people have responsibility for, publishing control, templates... So what it will do is put the capability of actually updating the web site directly in the hands of the people who are responsible for the content (with the appropriate training of course!).

There's been an awful lot going on in the past few years, your Council have known about all of these problems for some time and we set about solving them, that takes time with all of the planning and the finance and resources to do it. You are now beginning to see the results, we stopped just talking about it some time ago and started doing it, we have been for about the past year at least :) These new web servers and these new forums are all part of it, we needed the new web servers before we could run the type of CMS that we needed. Then of course there is the investment at HQ with all of the new systems there and Project Neptune progressing very well indeed.

So... it's all in hand! It's all going on right now. Your current Council are building upon the firm foundations laid by the previous Councils and are right in the middle of delivering it all. It will still be the same BSAC, but it will be a modern 21st Century club with modern 21st Century facilities to server the needs of modern 21st Century members. We'll still be doing everything that we do now (modernised where needed of course) but we will be doing it a lot better and a lot faster than we have been able to in the past.

Welcome to the 21st Century BSAC - watch this space as they say :)

Keith L
BSAC Council Member

So. That old card index system at HQ has gone then?
Wow. :D

[James - Narked@50]

So. That old card index system at HQ has gone then?
Wow. :D

Steady Andy! - We are just going to laminate them. http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/crazy/071.gif

James

[Andy Wade]

Steady Andy! - We are just going to laminate them. http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/crazy/071.gif

James

Shucks, I was going to make an offer too, my abacus and chalkboard system needs updating. :D

Love the dancing smilies. Saved.

[Alan Taylor]

Suppose it depends on what your looking for. Its not all doom & gloom.

Saw course advertised in the BSAC 2006 programme enclosed with DIVE in November . Used the links for NW coaching team as advertised w/e 11th Nov. Received a reply and application form, I think from Richard Northing on 16th Nov. Now that in my mind is 'up to date' and 'accurate' information. Still waiting for a reply to the same query from the other side of the pennines, but i am sure they will get round to it in time.

BSAC run by members for members gets there in the end?

Whoops, sorry to the PRofY, the Pennines run further north.:o

[John Williams]

Thank goodness for that!...back to posts about interesting stuff like "dancing smilies".

For a moment then I thought my computer had switched to a foreign language ...it even said something about bringing the BSAC into the 21st Century (I knew it was confused at that point:p )

I know, I know...you are going to say
"well - you started it!"

I can only apologise ...in a moment of weakness I saw a TLA (three letter abbreviation) that I did not recognise and made the mistake of asking what it meant!

Not nearly as interesting as
BCD
CNS
CPR
ABC
SCR
CCR
SDC
LOL

or the FLAs
UPTD
ABLJ
YBOD ( a personal favourite that one!)
BSAC
ROFL


John;)

PS
Thanks for explaining CMS... I think I get it (on a purely practical level... it means that I can do it myself rather than ringing the IT dept and asking them to do it - once I've been given the permissions to do so!)

[Keith Lawrence]

Thanks for explaining CMS... I think I get it (on a purely practical level... it means that I can do it myself rather than ringing the IT dept and asking them to do it - once I've been given the permissions to do so!)You've got it, that just about sums it up. So (for example) if some of the pages on a web site were "yours" and they needed updating, then you could go and change them yourself via an online interface - very much like editing a forum post on here.

Keith L