Scuba Hazards

[Rosie]

Hi,

I am new to Scuba Diving and i just wanted to ask if there is alot of deaths associated with this sport? I am just quite nervous about scuba diving an do not know very much about it.

Thanks

[Dave (Simmo)]

Hi Rosie,

No there aren't lots of deaths associated with diving. Deaths do occur but in real terms once you've driven the car to the dive site it gets much safer. You could say it's more risky than Crochet but safer than being a member of a road cycle racing club.

you can read the BSAC incident reports for our incidents on line on the www.bsac.org web site if you wish but seeming a number of the 20 or so deaths which occur annually in the UK seem to be deaths whilst diving rather than diving deaths [heart attacks and the like].

Diving is a bit like squash, you cant go diving to get fit you need a moderate level of fitness to go diving as it can be physically strenuous then if you follow the safe diving practices, dive within a club/school environment [not on your own] within the realms of your experience or under suitable supervision the risk is minimal.

Dave
Ps. I seem to recall reading recently there are something like 2,000,000 million dive annually in the UK which rather puts the 20 or so deaths in perspective.

[JamesW]

Every time I dive I am nervous what happen's if this happens ect I am allways thinking forward, once I don't bother or become non nervous its time for me to stick my kit on here or on ebay.
Happy Diving

[Chris Cherrington]

Scuba diving can be and mostly is, very safe - just take it easy and respect the environment you are in. Like so many things the thought is worse than the reality.

Give it a shot. Don't be pushed by anyone - take your time. it is a great privilidge to enjoy an "alien" environment.

Dave is right - the biggest "worry" is the drive to and back from the dive site.

Chris

[Alan Ewart]

Dave
Ps. I seem to recall reading recently there are something like 2,000,000 million dive annually in the UK which rather puts the 20 or so deaths in perspective.


Emmmm Sorry Dave I don't think so. This would equate to 33,333 dives for every man, woman and child in the UK per year.

This means every single person in the UK doing 91.3 dives per day, that would be almost 4 dives per hour for every single person in the UK.

I'm sure if all 60 million people in the UK dived our membership would be a lot bigger

[Dave (Simmo)]

Emmmm Sorry Dave I don't think so. This would equate to 33,333 dives for every man, woman and child in the UK per year.

This means every single person in the UK doing 91.3 dives per day, that would be almost 4 dives per hour for every single person in the UK.

I'm sure if all 60 million people in the UK dived our membership would be a lot bigger


you may have a point there Alan - perhaps i meant 2 million i seem to have duplicated myself

i am somewhat surprised that it's taken some 13.5 hours before anyone pointed it out - perhaps they're all off diving.

[Andy Wade]

you may have a point there Alan - perhaps i meant 2 million i seem to have duplicated myself

i am somewhat surprised that it's taken some 13.5 hours before anyone pointed it out - perhaps they're all off diving.

I was going to say something last night, but apparently I think that 2 + 3 x 4 = 20, when the correct answer is 14.
So I now have a 'simple' about my maths.
(I would have a 'complex' but I haven't got the brains for it). :D

[Dave (Simmo)]

I was going to say something last night, but apparently I think that 2 + 3 x 4 = 20, when the correct answer is 14.
So I now have a 'simple' about my maths.
(I would have a 'complex' but I haven't got the brains for it). :D

I read that thread and am now so glad i didn't answer the maths question

now i've tried sitting on my hands i may do it again it again.....:D

[Matt-75]

From what i gather the main problems that might kill you in diving are running out of air and untreated DCI. One can be avoided by checking your gauge, the other most of the time can be avoided by slow ascents and safety stops.

So the message is if you treat your diving with respect and practice a lot, you run a better chance of not ending up a statistic. Although their are exceptions.

Just read as much information as you can, and you will get the picture eventually.

[Alan Ewart]

I was going to say something last night, but apparently I think that 2 + 3 x 4 = 20, when the correct answer is 14.
So I now have a 'simple' about my maths.
(I would have a 'complex' but I haven't got the brains for it). :D


Now you have my brain ticking over, but actually I think you are correct. It would however be 14 if it was written 2 + (3 X 4).

I think ;) :rolleyes:

[Andy Wade]

I read that thread and am now so glad i didn't answer the maths question

now i've tried sitting on my hands i may do it again it again.....:D

I know, but I just had to try.
Opens mouth, places foot in mouth, hops away. :D

The way it was worded, it was obviously some kind of a trick.
And I thought PeteM was a nice bloke, apparently he's a bit of a tinker... :D

[Andy Wade]

Now you have my brain ticking over, but actually I think you are correct. It would however be 14 if it was written 2 + (3 X 4).

I think ;) :rolleyes:

My reasoning too. :confused:

[derek Perry]

HI Rosie
I think what Dave was trying to say is that you are statistically more likely to be killed driving to a dive site than actually diving, which is true. On average 20 people a year die in diving accidents, during millions of dives. Some deaths are around new diving technology, viz re-breathers. I saw a statistic that showed there was 1 death for every 1,000 re-breathers owned in the UK, in the early years. That is a phenomenal amount of deaths per thousand kits owned. It's like saying one death for every 1,000 cars owned.
Everything has to be put into perspective. If you don't go out of your house, you'll have a very boring but fairly safe life. However people even get killed in their house!!
Join a club, with people you are happpy to dive with, and don't go beyond your own limits until you are ready to. Don't be afraid to say NO. If anyone tries to pressure you, then you are in the wrong club.
Derek

[Matt-75]

Now you have my brain ticking over, but actually I think you are correct. It would however be 14 if it was written 2 + (3 X 4).

I think ;) :rolleyes:

If you've seen my other post you'll know the answers lies with the order of operation you use on the numbers. Practically speaking, by using the BIDMAS/BODMAS rule. The fourth operation is multiplication, the fifth addition. So multiplication takes precedence over addition in the question. 3x4=12+2=14

Hmm, enough maths talk though...please. ;)

[PeteM]

Now you have my brain ticking over, but actually I think you are correct. It would however be 14 if it was written 2 + (3 X 4).

I think ;) :rolleyes:

The rules precedence in maths say you should always do calculations in the order
1 exponents and roots
2 multiplication and division
3 addition and subtraction

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations

This is the grammar of maths.

So follow these rules for the equation 2+3x4. There are no exponents or roots so you can forget them, you do have a multiplication so 2+3x4 becomes 2+12, finally you do the addition giving 14. The brackets in 2 + (3 x 4) are redundant because they do not change anything.

[Michael Purcell]

Of course then there is McDonald's Math. (or Maths if you prefer)

Employees are told that

2+3x4=20
2+3x4=14

are both appropiate answers for the skill-testing questions.

Gotta love it. (American Math & English)

Which would beg the question is this a balanced equation according to McDs?

2+3x4=4x3+2 :confused:

:cool:

And if I dive an American made computer will this be the sort of Math they are using for the deco stops?

(Mind you even these calculations would be safer than the flaw in my Suunto D9. I'm still waiting for it to kill me.) :mad:

[tony J]

Dave is right - the biggest "worry" is the drive to and back from the dive site.
Chris

not sure where that idea comes from.

As we do not know how many poeple dive it is not possibly to say but...
BSAC membership is about 50000 (less I think). 20 people die a year (some are BSAC, lets say 5)

so 1 in 10000 risk per diver. (i think i have underestimated)

there are probably 50,000,000 car users and 1,675 car users died last year that is

1675 in 50,000,000 i.e. 1 in 30000

This seems to disagree with what other people have written. You are more likely to die as a diver than as a driver If you think that only some of your miles are to the dive site then the chance of a car accident on the way to a dive site must less than 1 in 30000

I've had a couple of friends die diving, but none of my friends have died in car accidents.

But statistics and anecdote are tricky things, I guess we could do it per dive and per drive to dive site trip

1 death per 200,000 dives

1675 deaths per 20,000,000 cars * 10000 miles= 1 in 100,000,000 miles

so a 2 dive weekend driving 200 miles

dive death risk is 1 in 100,000
driving death risk is 1 in 600,000

obviously my numbers are approximate, but do people have better ones ;-)

Looking at the most recent accident figures, cycling is getting more dangerous - as more poeple do it. Cycling near cars is very dangerous (in an accident at 30 mph the cyclist dies and the car driver needs a minor respray of a panel...)

Diving has risk, you can minimise risk (that is part of what makes it exciting) . You can choose you own level of risk in diving.

Tony

ps just worked out at 1 in 200,000 dive risk, the chance that I have died is 1 in 150. that is not good odds (and explains why friends have died U/W)
but I have only driven say 200000 miles in my life == 1 in 600)

pps lots of mad assumptions here about only one person being in a car etc.

[Dave (Simmo)]

So Rosie,

we've speculated wildly mused about what the potential risk may be compared with other activities
Crochet/Cyceling/Driving/watching TV

the bottom line is there is a risk associated with diving, which can be minimised by following good diving practices,

you pays your penny and you takes your choice - life can be very boaring watching TV!

Dave

Ps. we're assuming of course your not one of those people who goes to bed with the electric blanket on of course that can be very dangerous as well;)

[Janos]

there are probably 50,000,000 car users and 1,675 car users died last year that is

1675 in 50,000,000 i.e. 1 in 30000

Tony. Wheere is the 1675 from? I'd check if it includes Scotland and NI. Many government figures are quoted for England and Wales, with Scotland and Northern Ireland quoted seperately.

Also I'd question whether there are 50,000,000 active drivers in the UK. I would guess that the figures is closer to 30M. (You can discount everyone under 16 for a start).

That evens it up a little bit :)

Janos

[PeteM]

Tony. Wheere is the 1675 from? I'd check if it includes Scotland and NI. Many government figures are quoted for England and Wales, with Scotland and Northern Ireland quoted seperately.

Also I'd question whether there are 50,000,000 active drivers in the UK. I would guess that the figures is closer to 30M. (You can discount everyone under 16 for a start).

That evens it up a little bit :)

Janos

I think you also need to take out the deaths whilst diving (i.e. heart attacks) to leave just deaths caused by diving which probably evens it up even more

[tony J]

Tony. Wheere is the 1675 from? I'd check if it includes Scotland and NI. Many government figures are quoted for England and Wales, with Scotland and Northern Ireland quoted seperately.

Also I'd question whether there are 50,000,000 active drivers in the UK. I would guess that the figures is closer to 30M. (You can discount everyone under 16 for a start).

Janos

quote sources eh, this gets serious ;-) 1675 for britain Rospa https://www.rospa.com/news/releases/2006/pr461_29_06_06_road.htm

and I said "car users" not "drivers"

There are larger stat holes to pick in my maths (cars have multiple occupancy, so are safer per man mile than my maths)

Also, someone said we should take out diving deaths by heart attack. I thought 5 bsac deaths was already a low number - and heart attacks are less fatal on the surface. So I stick by my 5 !
Tony

(non car owner, worrying that 148 cyclist died on the roads last year - very unsafe per man mile)

[Janos]

Those are GB figures. But the figure you should be using is 3 221 was the number of road users. You've missing out motorbikes, vans etc. :)

Either way, although diving is dangerous. The risks are very well understood and controlled. I believe that Horse Riding is a far more dangerous sport (in terms of deaths per participant).

Janos

[tony J]

Those are GB figures. But the figure you should be using is 3 221 was the number of road users. You've missing out motorbikes, vans etc. :)
Janos

I wanted to use car (vehicle) users. I think it is a silly idea to ride / cycle / hitch to the dive site with twin 12's, you probably deserve to get knocked down. (from someone that did once try cycling with a twin set)


Tony

[Helen (AKA Hellvet)]

What i know most about diving is how much i love it :p - its not a sport in the classical competitive sense - its all about being in tune with the underwater environment - you do need to be constantly aware that the underwater environment is an alien one, and it is not a natural place for the human body, but it is an IMMENSE privilege to experience it - and for me that more than makes it worth the risk, whatever it may be.
You can minimise the risk by getting good training, good equipment, and good buddies, but ANY sport has its risks. You pays your money and takes your choice to a certain extent! For example - i wouldn't go jumping out of planes on a regular basis, or fly a light aircraft - thats not my thing!
I say the same sort of thing to clients who bring their pets in for an anaesthetic - every procedure (in this case every sport) carries a risk - but the techniques we use are designed to minimise risk...;)
Personally i think life is for living, and a bad day diving is much better than a day spent in front of the telly, carpe diem and all that...why not try it and speak to the members of a local club - someone there may have felt the same when they started diving and may be able to advise you?

[Janos]

I wanted to use car (vehicle) users. I think it is a silly idea to ride / cycle / hitch to the dive site with twin 12's, you probably deserve to get knocked down. (from someone that did once try cycling with a twin set)


I think there's a photo somewhere of Nigel on a motorbike with twin 10s...

Janos

[PeteM]

I think there's a photo somewhere of Nigel on a motorbike with twin 10s...

http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/stuff/bikefill1.jpg
http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/stuff/bikefill2.jpg

[Paul Morris]

http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/stuff/bikefill1.jpg
http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/stuff/bikefill2.jpg
Has anyone dared tell him his twinsets' the wrong way up! :D

[Alan Ewart]

If you've seen my other post you'll know the answers lies with the order of operation you use on the numbers. Practically speaking, by using the BIDMAS/BODMAS rule. The fourth operation is multiplication, the fifth addition. So multiplication takes precedence over addition in the question. 3x4=12+2=14

Hmm, enough maths talk though...please. ;)

;) Just goes to show I know sod all about maths ;)

Mind you I can work out how much back & deco gas I need for any given dive. Do I need more ? :D