View Full Version : Weight problem
paul davies
07-09-2006, 23:31
I have just done a course involving using a dry suit for the first time. The instructor involved didn't have a weight belt for me and gave me some weights which he told me to put in the pockets of my BCD. This was not a problem during the training part of dive. However, afterwards one of the weights came out of my pocket during the dive which I didn't notice, only for the fact that my bouyancy changed and as I began to ascent I noticed another weight slip out of my pocket. I emptied all the air out of my BCD and dry suit, but ascended very rapidly to the surface. Could you tell me if putting the weights in BCD pockets is safe practice for dive instructors to tell novice divers?
There are two issues here.
First up it is an absolute that you must have some form of ditchable weight.
What you experienced was exactly what would happen if you ditched a belt.
A rapid ascent only done as a last resort in an emergency.
So the first mistake was not to have a weightbelt.
Is it ok to put weight in pockets etc?
Many BC's have pockets and pouches designed to take weights. These are
used for trim and to take some of the weight off your hips and onto
your shoulders. As you have found, just putting them in your pocket isnt
ideal and there is the very real risk that they may come out with the
circumstances you described.
It is common for divers to be underweighted during training dives and most
Instructors will either add to the weightbelt or more often then not, use a
clip-on. A weight with a piston clip attached to a BC D-ring.
You may find that some do put a weight in the pocket, but again there is
often a built in D-ring for a piston clip. The main problem is that many BC's
have a velcro flap over the pocket and even the slightest inversion, may
mean that the weight will come out.
The bottom line here is that you should have had a weighbelt in the first
instance and any ADDITIONAL weights in pockets, must be secured by more
than just a zip or velcro.
To put it as bluntly as I can and as long as the facts in your post are
correct, then yes this was unsafe even for more experienced divers. let
alone a novice.
TerryH
Michael Purcell
08-09-2006, 07:16
First up it is an absolute that you must have some form of ditchable weight.
TerryH
The rest of what you said I agree with.
I can see how not being able to ditch weight on the surface could be argued, but I think detachable weight underwater provides as many risks (and likely more) than does having them.
Of course when you are talking about the 6 pounds I need these days as opposed to the 40 pounds I needed back in Canada I guess it is a completely different situation.
Regardless right now I am happy with all of my extra weight distributed between a steel tank and my steel backplate.
Christopher Bullion
08-09-2006, 07:41
Hi,
My problem is that the instructor thought it was OK to put all your weights into your BC pockets. The reason being that firstly, you couldn't ditch your weights easily in an emergency, and secondly, they could fall out (as in your case) and give you an uncontrolled ascent. If you or your instructor didn't have a weight belt for your dive, then it should have been binned. Part of the training dive should have been familiarising yourself with how the weightbelt 'fits' in your new kit set up.
I know it sounds like I'm being picky, but after seeing the results of the shortcuts taken by some instructors, I feel this sort of action should be clamped down on.
Taff Griffiths
08-09-2006, 09:38
The instructor involved didn't have a weight belt for me
Curious, why didn't you or the instructor have a weightbelt? :confused:
That aside I feel it is not best practice to load weights into a pocket for the very reasons you have stated, they fell out!
Saying that I have done it in the past for underweighted divers but I have always breifed them on the possibility of loosing the weights and I have kept a closer eye on my buddy.
Andy Wade
08-09-2006, 15:01
There are two issues here.
First up it is an absolute that you must have some form of ditchable weight.
What you experienced was exactly what would happen if you ditched a belt.
A rapid ascent only done as a last resort in an emergency.
So the first mistake was not to have a weightbelt.
Is it ok to put weight in pockets etc?
Many BC's have pockets and pouches designed to take weights. These are
used for trim and to take some of the weight off your hips and onto
your shoulders. As you have found, just putting them in your pocket isnt
ideal and there is the very real risk that they may come out with the
circumstances you described.
It is common for divers to be underweighted during training dives and most
Instructors will either add to the weightbelt or more often then not, use a
clip-on. A weight with a piston clip attached to a BC D-ring.
You may find that some do put a weight in the pocket, but again there is
often a built in D-ring for a piston clip. The main problem is that many BC's
have a velcro flap over the pocket and even the slightest inversion, may
mean that the weight will come out.
The bottom line here is that you should have had a weighbelt in the first
instance and any ADDITIONAL weights in pockets, must be secured by more
than just a zip or velcro.
To put it as bluntly as I can and as long as the facts in your post are
correct, then yes this was unsafe even for more experienced divers. let
alone a novice.
TerryH
Agree with all of Terry's points.
This is a dive cancelling decision IMHO, but the only way I'd consider doing this dive would be to equip the trainee with my weightbelt and find a way to lash my weights to myself, rather than compromise the safety of a trainee.
Although in practice I'd just reach for the spare belt in the boot... :D It would be next to the spare fin straps and spare mask and spare everything else.
Saying that I have done it in the past for underweighted divers but I have always breifed them on the possibility of loosing the weights and I have kept a closer eye on my buddy.
I'm guilty of this too in the past, But never placing all of the weight in the pockets that's just crazy, We ensure all students have their own belts, The weight they can borrow from the club, which we have control that, the belts just tend to walk.....
Typically it's only a 1 or 2kg weight to help fine-tune their buoyancy should them find they are slightly underweight in the water.
Incidentally when I'm teaching I always carry extra weight in my drysuit pockets for the benefit of the student, should they get floaty towards the end of a dive we can improvise, add extra weight and make a safe comfortable ascent rather than use them as a DSMB with me hanging onto a d-ring.
Dave Sydenham
08-09-2006, 15:49
Incidentally when I'm teaching I always carry extra weight in my drysuit pockets for the benefit of the student, should they get floaty towards the end of a dive we can improvise, add extra weight and make a safe comfortable ascent rather than use them as a DSMB with me hanging onto a d-ring.
Yeah, when I was first learning to dive I was always advised to carry a spare weight in the pocket of my ABLJ in case I found I needed more weight during the dive - then I could simply slip it onto my belt and viola, perfect weighting. :D
Yeah, when I was first learning to dive I was always advised to carry a spare weight in the pocket of my ABLJ in case I found I needed more weight during the dive - then I could simply slip it onto my belt and viola, perfect weighting. :D
That sounds far too clever for me too understand.:confused:
And why did you take your viola diving?:D
Was it for entertainment on long deco stops?
Nigel Hewitt
08-09-2006, 16:56
Yeah, when I was first learning to dive I was always advised to carry a spare weight in the pocket of my ABLJ in case I found I needed more weight during the dive - then I could simply slip it onto my belt and viola, perfect weighting. :DHas nobody pointed you at the new inflatable weight belts?
Dave Sydenham
08-09-2006, 17:48
Has nobody pointed you at the new inflatable weight belts?
You know, I've been looking for those for ages - I find the ones made out of lead are a bit heavy personally. :p
You know, I've been looking for those for ages - I find the ones made out of lead are a bit heavy personally. :p
I would go for the water filled weights, far better value for money than the inflatables and lets face it, if you are diving there will be water there. Also has the big advantage that you get automatic adjustment between fresh and salt water by filling from where you are going diving
Christopher Bullion
08-09-2006, 19:33
Ah, but if you get the Heavy water ones, you don't have to carry quite so much. ;)
Lindsey Doyle
08-09-2006, 20:25
Why would the lump of lead "weigh more" (ie, affect buoyancy) only on weightbelt, not in pocket???
Lindsey Doyle
08-09-2006, 20:29
Hopefully your max depth was only 6m as it was first drysuit dive, so less risk of injury if fast ascent?
I wouldn't put all of weight in ANY diver's pockets, nor advocate adding air to BC as well as drysuit when training in it!
What did the instructor say about it in the debrief?
Why would the lump of lead "weigh more" (ie, affect buoyancy) only on weightbelt, not in pocket???
It is quiet complex maths but you can find the explanation here (http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=joke)
paul davies
08-09-2006, 21:05
the instructor gave me one of the weights back and said "so thats why you ascended so quickly."
Hopefully your max depth was only 6m as it was first drysuit dive, so less risk of injury if fast ascent?
What!!!
A rapid ascent and shall we say distracted student to say the least,
wont be paying much attention to blowing bubbles (no jokes about
monkeys).
So that will be lungs trying to get to 1.6x original capacity.
Dont know about you, lungs like being the same size as what they started
the dives with.
While its true that DCI isnt really an issue here, lung expansion at shallow
depths very much is. This is one of the major reasons a stop is built into
AAS & CBL skills in the early stages. Just in case it's a big quick.
Tel.
Christopher Bullion
08-09-2006, 23:41
What!!!
A rapid ascent and shall we say distracted student to say the least,
wont be paying much attention to blowing bubbles (no jokes about
monkeys).
So that will be lungs trying to get to 1.6x original compacity.
Dont know about you, lungs like being the same size as what they started
the dives with.
While its true that DCI isnt really an issue here, lung expansion at shallow
depths very much is. This is one of the major reasons a stop is built into
AAS & CBL skills in the early stages. Just in case it's a big quick.
Tel.
As Someone who has had a pnuemothorax from just such an incedent (albiet from 30m) 'nuff said, in my opinion.
paul davies
13-09-2006, 20:40
:) :) Thanks to everyone who answered my thread.As being new to diving .it,s made me see that maybe i need to change dive club.
Lindsey Doyle
13-09-2006, 22:47
It is quiet complex maths but you can find the explanation here (http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=joke)
Sorry, my mistake for not realising the green symbol/icon means contributor is joking, guess I thought regional coaches/regular forum contributors etc would be giving "sensible" advice to genuine questions! After all, it was straight after some sensible advice about instructors carrying extra lead in case student needs it.
I have no idea what all those icons mean, guess I'll stick to Divernet where the forum looks/functions like the BSAC one did before..................
...guess I'll stick to Divernet where the forum looks/functions like the BSAC one did before..................:rolleyes:
Jo Brooks
30-10-2006, 17:16
When I have a trainee with me and I am unsure of what weight they require I tend to place weights in their BC pocket.
I must stress that this is only whilst conducting a weight check and it is in only about 2m of water. As soon as I am happy the weighting is correct then I get the trainee to exit the water and place the weights on a belt.
There is nothing worse than presenting a belt with too much lead!
Yes its true, some BC's (Jackets) are designed to carry weight, but for those with velcro pockets you can guarantee there is an accident waiting to happen. Given that dive centres hire equipment out, there is no excuse for not having a weight belt.
Chris Cherrington
31-10-2006, 11:51
:) :) Thanks to everyone who answered my thread.As being new to diving .it,s made me see that maybe i need to change dive club.
You need to change instructor at the very least.
Chris
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