What when and how much [Archive] - BSAC Scuba Diving Forums

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peterstirk

08-12-2005, 18:18

I am after some genral advice on Kit, infact if some one could tell me what to stay clear of and what is good value it would help.

I have just started training with BSAC and have two boys 15 and 16yrs

Due to a divorce I am not exactly well off and I am trying to work out some sort of schedule to save up and buy what kit we will all need and when?

The club has the fins, masks and snorkles but I am wondering what to expect to buy.

It would be interesting to find out what people think is a good set of gear to have and what brands. I know that its quite common for people to go and just buy stuff , I cannot afford to make mistakes and need to get the right stuff at a reasonoble price.

Any advice please!!

Regarsd Peter

JamesStirling

08-12-2005, 18:25

what i did was just keep looking on web and at your local dive shop. From a christmas sale i got a drysuit with undersuit and gloves, hood for £275 and a full set of regs for £125 and also a 15 liter cyclinder for £50 from the club with a year i test. Just keep hunting you will find something also look on the BSAC forum and on the Dive magazine forum.
Cheers James :D :D :D

Taff Griffiths

08-12-2005, 18:36

My best advice to you is if the club has got all the kit you require to train, I would use that for time being.

After you have started training and have completed at least one open water dive and you are committed to the diving world then and only then would I start buying kit. Doing it this way you will be able to gleen information/ recommendations and possibly try bit of kit on with the help of other club members/instructors before putting hand in pocket.

Kit that I would expect any person to have before they finish their course would be the following;

Mask
Fins
Snorkel
Hood
Gloves
Knife
Wet suit boots

Ask around the club to where you can buy these items at the best price, you might find it cheaper to get them from a local dive shop than getting them over the internet, plus at a local dive shop you can try them on before you buy furthermore you might find that a local dive shop will be willing to do you better deals as you become known to them and a more valued customer

After finishing the course then I would expect someone to start buying the rest at a pace that they can afford.

Buying the expensive stuff you need to decide what type and how much diving you are going to do then set your self a upper limit for that item and then get the best deal within your price limit. For example I had to save 6 long months for my BCD!

Regards :)

Fiona

08-12-2005, 21:42

Peter

Although the club has a few bit you can borrow, I would recommend you buy your own masks. I good fitting mask can make all the difference to the enjoyment of your training.

Visit you LDS and try on lots and find one that fits, don't go to a sports shop they don't have the range and don't buy a mask off the internet, unless you know exactly which one you want.

You are going to need a snorkel, don't go for one with a drain valve buy a cheap one the start from a couple of quid and yes you will need fins, you could buy pool fins to start with or you could buy some openwater fins but you will need wetsuit boots for your pool training.

When I started I had to buy all my own kit for the open water section of the training the club equipment was for pool use only.

There is some good second hand kit around but if you do buy second hand maybe take another club member along with you before you buy and they can give you some advise on whether it is a good buy. I would recommend second hand BC's for your sons as they probably haven't finished growing.

garethwoodruff

09-12-2005, 10:27

Just get yourself a mask and use club kit until you have passed your Ocean Diver.

Fiona's advice about a mask is spot on above.

Then have a read around about kit and ask to borrow people's kit from the club and have a go in the pool. As well as that get some advice from your instructors. You don't have to follow it, but listen and see what they say.

Be careful with second hand kit, might not be worth it, particularly with internet discounts available these days.

Yazzyfooty

12-12-2005, 21:05

[QUOTE=Fiona]
You are going to need a snorkel, don't go for one with a drain valve buy a cheap one the start from a couple of quid QUOTE]

Hiya Fiona
I am interested why you suggested not to buy a snorkel with a drain valve, can I ask why? :confused: My one and only snorkel has a drain valve which I am comfortable using.

PeteM

12-12-2005, 21:15

I am interested why you suggested not to buy a snorkel with a drain valve, can I ask why? :confused: My one and only snorkel has a drain valve which I am comfortable using.

Probably because if it is used for diving there is a fair chance that it will get lost and for the little use they get it is not worth spending real money on a snorkel.

For what it's worth I have a snorkelling snorkel (self drainer) and a diving snorkel (cheap and non self draining), the latter is normally kept in a nice safe non loosable location: my dive bag

Yazzyfooty

12-12-2005, 22:24

Probably because if it is used for diving there is a fair chance that it will get lost and for the little use they get it is not worth spending real money on a snorkel.

For what it's worth I have a snorkelling snorkel (self drainer) and a diving snorkel (cheap and non self draining), the latter is normally kept in a nice safe non loosable location: my dive bag
Fiona
Thanks for clarifying that matter for me mine will probably only come out of my dive bag if I decide to go snorkelling on me hols.
Yaz

Fiona

13-12-2005, 17:30

[quote=Fiona]
You are going to need a snorkel, don't go for one with a drain valve buy a cheap one the start from a couple of quid QUOTE]

Hiya Fiona
I am interested why you suggested not to buy a snorkel with a drain valve, can I ask why? :confused: My one and only snorkel has a drain valve which I am comfortable using.

IMO too expensive to take diving, save it for your snorkelling trips.

Is there a snorkelling element of dive training still ? if there is that's just cheating. :D

Ben Panter

13-12-2005, 17:37

I agree with Fiona here - if you learn with a no-drain snorkel you get an inherent feel for how to do it right. When you've mastered that skill I would say move onto a snorkel with a drain to make it marginally easier.

Paul Watts

13-12-2005, 18:03

[quote=Yazzyfooty]

IMO too expensive to take diving, save it for your snorkelling trips.

Is there a snorkelling element of dive training still ? if there is that's just cheating. :D

and although a simple bit of kit, no drain/nout to go wrong (the silican flap/valve has a habit of getting sand under it or falling out, giving you a gob full of water when u least espect it!)

Standard snorkel...:p

John Williams

13-12-2005, 21:42

Everyone has forgotten the most important rule with regard to this particularly sticky issue....

...the chances of losing your shiny new snorkel expand exponentially in relation to the cost. (of course if you chose to by a matt black "stealth snorkel" - then you've lost it already!)

Spend £2 on a snorkel and it will be with you for life! (no matter how hard you try to lose it!)

Spend £90 on a snorkel and you are not likely to get it home from your first trip (if it makes it out of the carpark at it's first trip to the clubhouse ...assuming it makes it home from the shop!)

The only thing I would say is that it IS worth investing in a Nitrox version - just i case you decide to do some extra training and "go technical" later in your diving career! (it also gives you a wider potential market should you ever decide to sell!)

John

(PS don't take anything at all in this post seriously)

cephalopod

21-12-2005, 15:12

[QUOTE=John Williams]

The only thing I would say is that it IS worth investing in a Nitrox version - QUOTE]

well I've got a black tri-mix snorkel spare: any offers? ;)

by the way, according to etymonline.com, the word snorkel originates in
1944, "airshaft for submarines," from Ger. Schnorchel, from Ger. navy slang Schnorchel "nose, snout," related to schnarchen "to snore" (see snore). So called from its resemblance to a nose and its noise when in use. The Anglicized spelling first recorded 1949. The meaning "curved tube used by a swimmer to breathe under water" is first recorded in 1953.

So ebayers beware: don't buy any snorkel made before 1953: it could prove to be highly unsuitable.:eek:

Alison Boler

21-12-2005, 16:21

Yes, definitely. Of course, it's crucial to buy the right sort of snorkel, not only for gas mix (exhaling nitrox rich gas into an air snorkel can cause it to collapse or indeed ignite). But additionally don't buy a snorkelling snorkel if you are a diver and vice versa - potentially dangerous not to mention a real waste of money. The final point to consider is whether you want a right or left twist snorkel for mounting purposes.

It's amazing how many people just view it as a simple piece of kit.

:O

Alison Boler

21-12-2005, 16:38

Some really good advice here, Peter. I would hope that you would not need to buy anything other than your own masks and wetsuits before the end of OD. The reason I mention wetsuits is not so much for you as for your sons. Don't know how big they are.... they are probably strapping youths but if not, then you need to make sure that they have well fitting suits that fit them. Younger people feel the cold more than adults and there's nothing worse than shivering in a suit that flushes. Depends if you can borrow suits that fit. Not an issue in the pool obviously. Then start to look at 2nd hand kit from the branch, the buy and sell forum here, the Divernet personal ads, small ads in the back of Dive and Diver, Ebay. All of the post or internet options need to be treated with some caution obviously. Ask plenty of questions and check what the return policy is. I would also recommend having a good look at what's on offer at the Dive Shows: there is LIDS in London in March. I bought my daughter a new BCD at the Birmingham show for £290 when the exact same model in every way is in excess of £450 elsewhere. Some dive shops will do a very good deal for purchase of a full set of kit - just make sure every piece is what you want. Do some research first, decide what you want and then look around.
Also, you mention your two sons. Have a think about what sort of diving they are going to do. Are they going to dive in the UK or only on holiday? If the latter, you can get away with thinner wetsuits right now. If you are all going to dive in the UK, then I would work with borrowed thick wetsuits while saving with all my might for drysuits. No point in spending a lot of money on wetsuits if you are going to switch to a drysuit quickly.

Fins: I would borrow pool fins for the pool section of the course and hopefully borrow sea fins for the dives. After OD I would buy boots and sea fins. Pool fins are good for the pool and not much more. Don't buy sea fins with integrated feet. Reason: Imagine coming up from a dive with nice soft feet from being immersed in water, now imagine taking your shoe fins off to walk up the beach and then having to hobble up over all those pebbles....

Good luck

Allie

Woz

21-12-2005, 18:03

If you want cheap brand new stuff then lots of German shops sell online and they are astoundingly cheap- Apeks ATX100 regs for £185 (UK shops sell the exact same thing for £320). I'm all for supporting my LDS but not when there is an obvious price fixing cartel going on.

Anyway- off my high horse for a second.

Mask I'd look for a decent brand. Beaver Atomics seems to fit everyone but it's very much a matter of personal preference. A good one will set you back 35-40 in a dive shop. If you are really strapped then try a few on then order one online- an Atomic in your LDS will set you back £40 but they are available online for £25. Just a hint- a clear mask will turn yellow with age so it might pay you to look at a black silicone one.

Snorkels- cheap and cheerful. No more than a fiver. You will use it 3 times in the pool then leave it in your kit bag forever.

Fins- pool fins are about a tenner, maybe 15. For open water, you can't go wrong with a pair of Mares X3 or Quattros. Have a hunt round. Decathlon flog them off cheap every now and then. But remember you'll need boots to go with them and you should also remember that drysuit boots are bigger too.

As for the rest of it, look for 2nd hand stuff. eBay is well avoided as stuff is very expensive on there and often poorly described. BCD's are easy to come across as lots of people are getting wings so they come up very often. AP Valves Buddy range are bullet proof and will last forever plus the service from AP is excellent. Expect to pay about £120 for a BCD in virtually new condition.

Starting off in a semi-dry is the way to go. Loads of 2nd hand ones about- beg borrow or steal one as rental soon adds up at a tenner a shot.

As for regs, BSAC divers seem to have either Apeks or Poseidon :) but that's a whole new ball game and very expensive too. Again- ask around and have a play with a few to see what you like.

What else?
Er- deco computer. After about 10 dives you'll be sick of tables. 2nd hand Suunto Vypers are about 125 quid or a new Gekko for 135. Or at the dive show you can pick up an Apeks Quantum for about 140 which will do everything you will need for club diving (and a bit more).
Gloves- 5mm for winter, 3mm for summer. Again Beaver are ok and cheap.
Knife- small and cheap. Beaver Eclipse or something like that. They all rust and you'll lose it anyway.
DSMB and reel- at the SD stage, really. I reckon the Narked at 60 tekkie reel is the best club (and technical) reel on the market at the moment and at £38 is cheap, too. Blobs are about £25- cheap ones from www.advanced-diving-products.com. There are some awful reels out there so be very careful.
Drysuit- eventually you will want one. Again- a very personal choice. Look for 2nd hand ones- they do come up frequently and if you are an "odd shape" you'll pick one up cheap. My Otter membrane was £100 with undersuit, hood, bag and gloves.

You'll get a zillion different opinions here but this lot works for me.

Ben Thompson

21-12-2005, 18:22

Just a hint- a clear mask will turn yellow with age so it might pay you to look at a black silicone one.

I recently heard that with the newest masks, the yellowing is most likely to come from reacting with the the rubber in the foot pocket of fins when you stuff your mask in your fins before & after a dive. Anyone care to shed any light?

Oh, and I just find the black masks a bit scary really! (good for photography, bad for trainees... but then the two don't mix really, do they?)

David Walker

21-12-2005, 20:37

Oh, and I just find the black masks a bit scary really! (good for photography, bad for trainees... but then the two don't mix really, do they?)

Yeah I don't like trainees (particularly new divers) in black masks - you can tell a lot from people's eyes, and its much more difficult to see what their eyes are doing in a black mask. Maybe the same would apply to the instructor - a nervous student might find it reassuring to see their eyes?

And on a personal note I don't like them anyway - I like to see whats going on around me, and with my present mask (Cressi Horizon) I can see far far more around me than any black mask i've ever tried. And coming back to teaching, it means I don't have to be moving my head around quite so much, since if they're beside me I can see them out of the corner of my eye.

Definitely a preference thing though - some people love them so can't complain really.

David

peterstirk

22-12-2005, 00:19

Thanks to everyone for their advice and the diversion on snorkles was interesting too!

Regards Peter

scubadiver

19-01-2006, 16:04

Hi, as a training officer I get this question asked on a regular basis. As many have said already, use as much kit from the club as necessary, but my recommendation would be to buy you own mask, fins and snorkel. The mask I bought in 1990 when I first started diving is still going strong so was a good investment.

For openwater training, clubs:) usually have good links with dive shops and so the hire of drysuirs etc is not too expensive. Also remember buy in haste repent at leisure. Ask alot of questions before you buy so mistakes are not made. good luck with your training.

allanc

26-01-2006, 19:45

Fiona

26-01-2006, 20:02

TRY Ebay put scuba into your search on ebay its got loads

It does but only if you know what you are looking for and what it should cost.

Although I have sold and bought from ebay, I wouldn't recommend it for people just starting out. Better to see the item you are buying and even better take someone who is experienced along if you can view it.

Roz

30-01-2006, 22:03

A word of advice when you come to buy BCD's. I'm taking a bet that your two sons have not stopped growing yet. In fact they probably grow out of their brand new shoes as you walk home from the shop!

There are a number of manufacturers out there that make adjustable BCD's. About five years ago Zeagle launched a BC aimed at the teenage diver, which had the ability to grow as the diver did. Other manufacturers have models that can do this. I think DUI has one. If you are going to go down this route and buy BCD's, then it will be worth you doing your homework and finding one which will grow as your sons do. That way they will be able to dive it now and also in five years time as well, if they should so desire.

Alan Ewart

30-01-2006, 23:08