Subscribing with auto-responder email addresses

[Vic]

A few people have taken to using email addresses that automatically send emails back whenever someone sends you an email.

I'd like to point out that these are not welcome as subscription addresses for these fora.

They don't do you any good here - the only people who see these auto-responses are KL and I - and I'm most assuredly *not interested* in you thanking me for my mail / getting back to me as soon as possible / promising to send me your new catalogue.

My present policy is to reject all mail from the auto-responders I see. If the problem gets much worse, I will be tempted to name & shame.

Please - if you must use auto-responders (which are considered abusive in many circles), turn them off for your subscription here. It can only end in tears...

Vic.

[Badders (Dave)]

Vic

When I first signed up here, Keith explained to me about auto responders and how you all find them annoying, albeit he used a little more tact than your explanation above, I immediately gave him another email address, (my personal one), some people only use one Email and share it for business.

I just wanted to defend the auto reply, in as much as if used properly, it is a tool which aids communications, and to a lot of people makes Email a lot more efficient, knowing an email has arrived has to be a good thing.

My company uses the auto reply to tell people when a correspondence will be answered and gives an alternative contact medium in case of an emergency, it's a way to ensure I don't loose customers.

Please tell me what the harm is? and why should something so innocent "End In Tears"?

Also I seem to remember that when I signed up here I received an auto reply from this very web site! which I found very welcoming.

I think you administrators do a fantastic job and as I've already demonstated if auto response offends you, you can have another address.

But an explanation other than the fact that your not interested would be nice
and I'm most assuredly *not interested* in you thanking me for my mail / getting back to me as soon as possible / promising to send me your new catalogue.


Thanks

Badders

[Finless]

Vic

When I first signed up here, Keith explained to me about auto responders and how you all find them annoying, albeit he used a little more tact than your explanation above, I immediately gave him another email address, (my personal one), some people only use one Email and share it for business.

I just wanted to defend the auto reply, in as much as if used properly, it is a tool which aids communications, and to a lot of people makes Email a lot more efficient, knowing an email has arrived has to be a good thing.

My company uses the auto reply to tell people when a correspondence will be answered and gives an alternative contact medium in case of an emergency, it's a way to ensure I don't loose customers.

Please tell me what the harm is? and why should something so innocent "End In Tears"?

Also I seem to remember that when I signed up here I received an auto reply from this very web site! which I found very welcoming.

I think you administrators do a fantastic job and as I've already demonstated if auto response offends you, you can have another address.

But an explanation other than the fact that your not interested would be nice

Thanks

Badders

Badders,

You're not bad at all ..... in fact, you're very polite. I'm SHOCKED that a BSAC forum godlet can be seen to be decrying politeness ........ why, what is the world coming to?

I SUPPOSE one could get tired of anything if one gets too much of it ........ I just hope diving, women and sex ... oh, and beer are the exceptions that prove the rule!

I wonder if Vic was one of those cruel BSACers that used to take the pi ...... michael out of us poor PADI divers? I used to http://londondnb.com/forums/images/smilies/cryme.gif when I got home ...... I'm scarred for life you know ...... still scared of beards (of facial hair or any male hair) ...... I was certain there was a BSAC course in the subject of baiting PADI divers. Anyway, I got my own back ...... I used to tell my Mum!

:):)

[Vic]

When I first signed up here, Keith explained to me about auto responders and how you all find them annoying, albeit he used a little more tact than your explanation above

If you're looking for tact, you're looking in the wrong place. My task is to make sure this server runs as effectively as possible with as little administrative loading as possible. To that end, I favour clarity and conciseness over diplomacy - in the final reckoning, I don't actually care if people like the message I'm putting across, I just want to be sure they can't misinterpret it.

some people only use one Email and share it for business.

That's fair enough - but someone with enough control over their mail system to instantiate an auto-responder should also be in a position to disable it for some situations. To do otherwise is to send email to accounts which do not appreciate it, and that's a real good way to get yourself LARTed.

I just wanted to defend the auto reply, in as much as if used properly, it is a tool which aids communications, and to a lot of people makes Email a lot more efficient, knowing an email has arrived has to be a good thing.

Can't agree. If you want people to know their mail has arrived, enable return-receipts - both from the server and from client programmes. This gives each sender the choice whether or not to be notified.

My company uses the auto reply ... it's a way to ensure I don't loose customers.

You'd be surprised. Many people (including me) see a boilerplate auto-ack as abusive. I'll go out of my way to avoid doing business with any company that uses tools like this - and I'm not alone. If you want to send a useful acknowledgement, send a tracking ID, so that next time I call/mail, I can reference my previous query.

Please tell me what the harm is?

Someone has to deal with those mails. That takes time - who is going to pay for that time? You? BSAC? Or me?

and why should something so innocent "End In Tears"?

Email abuse of any sort is never innocent. You might find it acceptable - if so, you're out of step with many email administrators. I find it to be the thin end of the wedge, that leads to notifications of news and offers from places that have received email from me in the past, to exciting new ways to increase the size of my genitalia or buy into the next sure-fire company to make the top of the Fortune 500, that's currently trading at only 55 cents a share, ...

My view on this is simple - if you've got a message for me, send it to me. If your computer is sending me something automatically, it's *incredibly* unlikely that it's got a message I want to hear.

Also I seem to remember that when I signed up here I received an auto reply from this very web site! which I found very welcoming.

You received an acknowledgement of your action. That's a very different state of affairs from receiving an acknowledgement of someone else's action.

But an explanation other than the fact that your not interested would be nice

Processing email costs money. If you're prepared to pay my fees, I'll be happy to accept your automatically-generated zero-content email.

Vic.

[Vic]

I wonder if Vic was one of those cruel BSACers that used to take the pi ...... michael out of us poor PADI divers?

Since I held a PADI qualification before I held a BSAC one, that would be a somewhat bizarre thing for me to do, don't you think?

Vic.

[Finless]

Since I held a PADI qualification before I held a BSAC one, that would be a somewhat bizarre thing for me to do, don't you think?

Vic.

No, not really. I'll bet 3p that you probably like some self http://londondnb.com/forums/images/smilies/whip.gif? Well, you DID cross over?

:):):):)

[Finless]

If you're looking for tact, you're looking in the wrong place. My task is to make sure this server runs as effectively as possible with as little administrative loading as possible. To that end, I favour clarity and conciseness over diplomacy - in the final reckoning, I don't actually care if people like the message I'm putting across, I just want to be sure they can't misinterpret it.

Vic,

Surely you prevaricate and are indeed guilty of politeness?

Surely, if true to your word, your reply would be be "turn the autoresponder off when using this forum or I'll punch your 'k#n 'ead!"?

:):)

[Nigel Hewitt]

I consider an autoresponder to be the height of pig ignorance.
It does not tell me you will get back to me, it tells me probably won't so you've instituted an automatic excuse generator.

"I am away from my desk" is in the kill file with "hot asian chicks" etc.

[Finless]

I consider an autoresponder to be the height of pig ignorance.
It does not tell me you will get back to me, it tells me probably won't so you've instituted an automatic excuse generator.

"I am away from my desk" is in the kill file with "hot asian chicks" etc.

Is it anything similar to NOT leaving a message on an answerphone?

Where were these hot Asian chicks? I just want to make sure I don't go wherever they are by mistake, is all ....... I wouldn't ask otherwise!

:)

[Badders (Dave)]

Vic

like I said, I was asked by Keith not to have an auto reply. naturally I obliged immediately, in kind. I have a lot of respect for what you chaps do and you all deserve that consideration.

If you're looking for tact, you're looking in the wrong place. My task is to make sure this server runs as effectively as possible with as little administrative loading as possible. To that end, I favour clarity and conciseness over diplomacy - in the final reckoning, I don't actually care if people like the message I'm putting across, I just want to be sure they can't misinterpret it.

Respectfully, that's an interesting attitude! If you don't have either the inclination or the ability to get a point over clearly and concisely and conduct yourself in a tactful manner at the same time, that's none of my my business.
Email abuse of any sort is never innocent. You might find it acceptable
My auto reply simply states "I'm away from my computer until xx:xx on xx:xx if you need me urgently please me ring me on 012234 765432. all the best Dave.

If that's email abuse to you then I apologies, but really!

I favour clarity and conciseness over diplomacy

Most people favour clarity and conciseness, however all was neither clear nor concise in your first posting, regards this matter. It consisted of abrupt threats to punish people for not doing something that was not clearly requested in the first place!

People would perhaps respond better to a request stating that; it is a forum rule for all users to disable any auto responder on Email addresses, to prevent us extra work and server difficulties , and perhaps, mention that anyone not complying with the request would be vaporised :D

To close; I have learned something here so thanks for that, I had no idea that people were offended by this form of communication, as it's never been pointed out to me before.

Keep up the good work

Badders

[David Walker]

Auto-responders may be useful to email sent from live people - if someone isn't going to reply I like to know so I can find the information I want a different way. Better than just ignoring email, although not as good as actually answering them or redirecting them to someone able to help.

But to use auto-responding email addresses for automated systems is just silly - the forum system doesn't care that you are out of the office, and, as already said, someone had to read through them incase there is a legitimate question from one of our members.

That said, the other option is to have all forum emails sent from an unmonitored address, with a note in the email for queries or problems.

David

[Vic]

If you don't have either the inclination or the ability to get a point over clearly and concisely and conduct yourself in a tactful manner at the same time, that's none of my my business.

You'll not see me arguing that point.

My auto reply simply states "I'm away from my computer until xx:xx on xx:xx if you need me urgently please me ring me on 012234 765432. all the best Dave.

If that's email abuse to you then I apologies

If I've made no attept to contact you, then yes - that turning up in my inbox is abusive. And if it's my personal inbox, I respond as badly to that sort of abuse as I do to any other.

Most people favour clarity and conciseness, however all was neither clear nor concise in your first posting, regards this matter.

I've yet to see anyone not get the point - so it seems clear enough. The only complaint I've had is from you, about the tone I took. And, TBH, I couldn't care less.

It consisted of abrupt threats to punish people for not doing something that was not clearly requested in the first place!

Refraining from sending unsolicited email is not something you should need telling about.

Vic.

[Michael Purcell]

My auto reply simply states "I'm away from my computer until xx:xx on xx:xx if you need me urgently please me ring me on 012234 765432. all the best Dave.



Yeah heaven forbid if I send you an email that I expect a response and that if you are out of the office I wouldn't want to know. ;)

I'm not actually sure what Vic was on about so I tried to bite my tongue.

But

Why is he emailing you if he doesn't expect a response? If it is registration information shouldn't it come from an account that doesn't receive incoming mail therefore is a none issue?

Like I said I probably don't understand the whole issue but the IT guy in me wanted to lash out :D

But what do I know...I wouldn't want the hassle of administrating the forums so far be it from me to criticize the person who does...I just thought the tone was a little off considering he represents BSAC.

[Vic]

Why is he emailing you if he doesn't expect a response?

I'm not mailing anyone.

The Apache programme (that runs the whole of this server, including these fora) mails people on request about various things. These include registration confirmations, and notifications of anything you've decided to watch.

Such mails are sent with a valid return address - so people with problems can get a mail back to someone who can fix problems. That's fine.

But auto-responders just send junk. There is no need whatsoever for the forum system to know that someone's away. No need to know that someone has received one of these notifications and will grinningly get round to reading it just as soon as he's got some more Prozac.

And who gets this junk? Me. And I don't want it.

If it is registration information shouldn't it come from an account that doesn't receive incoming mail therefore is a none issue?

No, not if we can help it. There are people who will receive that sort of mail who really do have trouble with confusers. The ability just to reply means they can get help. To turn off that sort of thing means they'll have to fend for themselves. I'd rather we keep things as they are - but that means putting a stop to auto-responders.

Like I said I probably don't understand the whole issue

You don't, it would seem.

But what do I know...I wouldn't want the hassle of administrating the forums so far be it from me to criticize the person who does...I just thought the tone was a little off considering he represents BSAC.

I don't represent BSAC. I represent the bloke who has to clean up after whatever happens to this box. That's why I take proactive measures to defend it.

Vic.

[Vic]

That said, the other option is to have all forum emails sent from an unmonitored address, with a note in the email for queries or problems.

That means we lose any info we get from non-deliveries. That'll increase the workload for you lot...

Vic.

[Mike Halligan]

I don't represent BSAC. I represent the bloke who has to clean up after whatever happens to this box. That's why I take proactive measures to defend it.


Vic,

This is getting out of hand, way over my head and quite possibly offensive. I'd best get my coat and not bother coming back here for a month or two.

Mike
[accessibility]

[Andy Wade]

A few people have taken to using email addresses that automatically send emails back whenever someone sends you an email.

I'd like to point out that these are not welcome as subscription addresses for these fora.

They don't do you any good here - the only people who see these auto-responses are KL and I - and I'm most assuredly *not interested* in you thanking me for my mail / getting back to me as soon as possible / promising to send me your new catalogue.

My present policy is to reject all mail from the auto-responders I see. If the problem gets much worse, I will be tempted to name & shame.

Please - if you must use auto-responders (which are considered abusive in many circles), turn them off for your subscription here. It can only end in tears...

Vic.

I've been wondering if anyone ever uses this feature.
I have all mine disabled as they'd also send an auto response to all the spammers, which just confirms the email address is valid so that spammers just send more junk to it.

[Badders (Dave)]

Micheal

Thanks I thought I was going mad here.

Why is he emailing you if he doesn't expect a response? If it is registration information shouldn't it come from an account that doesn't receive incoming mail therefore is a none issue?

Interesting Point.

Vic
I'm not going to dignify your last posting with a reply. it's erroneous and argumentative!

Badders

[Mike Halligan]

I have all mine disabled as they'd also send an auto response to all the spammers, which just confirms the email address is valid so that spammers just send more junk to it.

Andy,

Quite. :)

I knew there was a reason, couldn't remember it and didn't care sufficiently to expend great effort on the matter. Easier by far to go get lost a while and let the acrimony blow over. :eek:

Mike

[MattS]

This is getting out of hand, way over my head and quite possibly offensive. I'd best get my coat and not bother coming back here for a month or two.Mike, I can assure you it is no more offensive than a Monty Python sketch - although you would need to be familiar with our user handles to see the humour in it.

The point however is pertinent. As a BSAC member which would you prefer, the voluntary Vic in the raw (as it were). Or the gift wrapped branded product which you (and I) have to pay for. The quality of what is inside does not change. I can arrange things either way but I can not stop Vic being Vic, and neither would I wish to.

Should we have a poll?

[Keith Lawrence]

OK, I can see that this is getting a little out-of-hand, I'm going to close the thread. OK, maybe Vic was a little harsh in what he said but I do know exactly where he is coming from - I have just come back from a few days away to find my inbox partially clogged with "I am away from my desk..." auto responders :(

In the context of automatic systems such as the forums they are a total PITA, they are unwanted and unnecessary. We have to keep the 'From' email address open to look for problems with either the forums or the mail systems or for you to be able to contact us. It is a total waste of our time to see all of these "I am away from my desk..." messages when somebody registers, gets a PM, has subscribed to a thread...

Sure, we could turn it off - all that would do is hide the numerous real problems that people have (and we sort out for them) and degrade the service for the rest of our users.

So, the policy on this (and the vast majority of forums) is "no auto-responders please". When we get a moment we'll add that request to the registration screens. Auto-responders may (debatably) have a place, but on behalf of Vic and myself I can assure you that the place for them is not as your email address for forums systems. They annoy the SysAdmins, they clog up our inboxes, they degrade the service for everybody else because we have to waste time dealing with them.

So no auto-responders please.

Keith Lawrence
Forums Manager