View Full Version : A Flag awareness campaign
Hi folks, as you may have seen in Dive & Diver this month, Torbay BSAC have started a poster campaign to try and inform other water users of the meaning of the international code A flag, i.e. there are divers in the water - will you please not run them over!
Down here in Torbay, we have a lot of casual and weekender water users, plus a lot of divers and it can lead to some heated discussions!
The posters are designed to be displayed on marinas, slipways and in boating related shops. They have been approved by the coastguard and RNLI and display their logos.
Please feel free to download a copy from our website
www.Torbay-BSAC.co.uk
and display them wherever you dive (please ask permission before posting them on notice-boards), and encourage chandlers and other boating shops to display copies.
The version currently on the website has the Torbay Harbour Authority logo on it - they helped us with the production costs. A 'generic' version will shortly be posted, and this has a clear white area where you can add your own club logo or other local information.
Please let us know via the website if you are joining in.
Safe diving, all !
Nick
Adrian Kelland
31-05-2006, 14:24
Good work Nick.
Do you think it would work better if we had two flags - Foxtrot and Oscar? :)
Adrian
Nice one :)
Great that someone has taken the initiative to do this.
Please feel free to download a copy from our website
www.Torbay-BSAC.co.uk
Please let us know via the website if you are joining in.
Safe diving, all !
Nick
Hi Nick
Nice one ;)
You will now find a link to your site from the Diving Safety (http://www.bsac.org/safety/index.html) pages under Downloads.
also under the Safety Advice (http://www.bsac.org/safety/advice.htm) page under Seamanship
Regards,
Jim:cool:
Good work Nick.
Do you think it would work better if we had two flags - Foxtrot and Oscar? :)
Adrian
An exocet missile is often needed
judithbodkin
31-05-2006, 16:23
Brilliant idea.:cool:
Ben Panter
31-05-2006, 19:23
Nick,
Welcome to the forums, and great idea. Posters look great!
Ben
Ian@1904
31-05-2006, 21:01
An exocet missile is often neededTaking along a paintballing gun and pellets has certain attractions.;)
Rich Foster
31-05-2006, 21:45
Great Idea!
Many times I've had to 'educate' (using words I wouldn't use in a classroom) the drivers (lets face I can't call them skippers) of Gin Palaces and seaborne Chavs (jet skiers) when theyhave come barreling over a dive site, despite the A Flag and SMB's.
Hopefully this will make people understand what these mean.
Thanks, Jim. That's great.
Rhodus Aquanaut
01-06-2006, 15:12
Hi Nick,
Good posters, good to try and get the message out to non-divers and alike.
One major problem is that any idiot can buy a boat or seacraft and use it, no training, no knowledge.
There are more and more idiots grabbing a floating or almost floating objects and throwing them, at speed, through the water and anything that is in its road.
At least if these posters save one person from unwanted idiots, brilliant.
Although I have experienced some of these people within dive boats I have been in, but thankfully after a brief exchange they saw the error of their ways.
Rhodus :cool:
Martyn Ward
02-06-2006, 01:28
One major problem is that any idiot can buy a boat or seacraft and use it, no training, no knowledge.
And sadly, that includes quite a few dive boats.
Having lived for 5 years within spitting distance of the Breda, in Oban, I've seen some incredible antics with dive boats. In our first year up there, the best one we saw was a local hard boat get stuck for the day on the submerged rocks at the westernmost end of Ardmucknish Bay. When the Coastguard called them on the VHF, they said they had "about ten divers on board" !!!
Me and Liz used to plod out for a dive on the wreck in the evening after work on ocassion whenever we could. On one trip, me and bro-in-law surfaced to find another RIB moored to the shot with a very nervous woman on her own in it. After climbing aboard, I made to return to shore but Liz made us wait a while. Apparently, two guys staying at Tralee Bay were diving from the RIB and had taken the woman along as cover, even though (which she admitted) she hadn't a clue what to do and didn't really want to be there. Their last words to her before rolling in were: "If we don't come back up, press the button on the microphone and tell the Coastguard what's happened, they'll send somebody out to find us". The mind boggles!! We stayed there until they surfaced and the look of relief on her face was a picture!
On 2 ocassions, we had club RIB's full of dive gear washed up on our beach after their moorings had come undone. One of these almost prompted a full-scale search until the daft tw*ts responsible for it rang the Police and told them their boat had been stolen!!
On one ocassion I came home and noticed an empty RIB moored above the wreck. After 45 minutes and no sign of anyone, I alerted the Coastguard by 'phone. Their calls on channel 16 went un-answered to the point where they were considering sending a patrol boat out to investigate. After one full hour, three divers surfaced, climbed aboard and headed back towards Oban, still not answering the radio!!
I could go on and on with many more incidents, all witnessed by me and Liz, and ocassionally heard :eek: by visitors to the caravan site but I don't think there's much point. While I agree that Torbay BSAC's initiative is a great idea, I personally think that as divers, we ought to clean up our own back yards before we ask other water-users to clean theirs up. You only have to see the council roadsigns at Chesil Cove reminding divers to " remember there are people living nearby so please exercise decorum when getting changed" (or words to that effect) to realise what a hard task that will be!
As the saying goes: don't hold your breath!
Martyn.
Andy Wade
02-06-2006, 08:34
And sadly, that includes quite a few dive boats.
Having lived for 5 years within spitting distance of the Breda, in Oban, I've seen some incredible antics with dive boats. In our first year up there, the best one we saw was a local hard boat get stuck for the day on the submerged rocks at the westernmost end of Ardmucknish Bay. When the Coastguard called them on the VHF, they said they had "about ten divers on board" !!!
Me and Liz used to plod out for a dive on the wreck in the evening after work on ocassion whenever we could. On one trip, me and bro-in-law surfaced to find another RIB moored to the shot with a very nervous woman on her own in it. After climbing aboard, I made to return to shore but Liz made us wait a while. Apparently, two guys staying at Tralee Bay were diving from the RIB and had taken the woman along as cover, even though (which she admitted) she hadn't a clue what to do and didn't really want to be there. Their last words to her before rolling in were: "If we don't come back up, press the button on the microphone and tell the Coastguard what's happened, they'll send somebody out to find us". The mind boggles!! We stayed there until they surfaced and the look of relief on her face was a picture!
On 2 ocassions, we had club RIB's full of dive gear washed up on our beach after their moorings had come undone. One of these almost prompted a full-scale search until the daft tw*ts responsible for it rang the Police and told them their boat had been stolen!!
On one ocassion I came home and noticed an empty RIB moored above the wreck. After 45 minutes and no sign of anyone, I alerted the Coastguard by 'phone. Their calls on channel 16 went un-answered to the point where they were considering sending a patrol boat out to investigate. After one full hour, three divers surfaced, climbed aboard and headed back towards Oban, still not answering the radio!!
I could go on and on with many more incidents, all witnessed by me and Liz, and ocassionally heard :eek: by visitors to the caravan site but I don't think there's much point. While I agree that Torbay BSAC's initiative is a great idea, I personally think that as divers, we ought to clean up our own back yards before we ask other water-users to clean theirs up. You only have to see the council roadsigns at Chesil Cove reminding divers to " remember there are people living nearby so please exercise decorum when getting changed" (or words to that effect) to realise what a hard task that will be!
As the saying goes: don't hold your breath!
Martyn.
Couldn't agree more, we divers usually only bother to learn one flag, then we get annoyed when other boat users don't know what ours means. There are quite a few flags used out there and all boat users should take trouble to learn them.
The awareness campaign is a great idea of course.
I'm also wondering how many divers think the 'divers down' flag is white with a red diagonal flash? I get a bit fed up seeing it splashed all over dive kit when it isn't even used in this, or many other countries. Probably more a Merkin thing than a PADI thing I guess.
I'm also wondering how many divers think the 'divers down' flag is white with a red diagonal flash? I get a bit fed up seeing it splashed all over dive kit when it isn't even used in this, or many other countries. Probably more a Merkin thing than a PADI thing I guess.
It is not even a merkin thing, it is a Florida thing. Legislation there says divers have to have a SMB showing that flag - the dive boat should still be showing the international standard A flag.
It has got corrupted over the years to become a general diving flag accepted all over the states and the US influenced world - which of course with PADI means most of the world
Andy Wade
02-06-2006, 08:49
It is not even a merkin thing, it is a Florida thing. Legislation there says divers have to have a SMB showing that flag - the dive boat should still be showing the international standard A flag.
It has got corrupted over the years to become a general diving flag accepted all over the states and the US influenced world - which of course with PADI means most of the world
A policy of misinformation perhaps?
That couldn't happen in todays World could it? :D
Adrian Kelland
02-06-2006, 09:00
I'm also wondering how many divers think the 'divers down' flag is white with a red diagonal flash? I get a bit fed up seeing it splashed all over dive kit when it isn't even used in this, or many other countries. Probably more a Merkin thing than a PADI thing I guess.
That's because it is 'divers down' and is also used on bouys and markers.
The A flag is for the boat and indicates that the boat has restricted movement due to 'diving operations'. Surface supply comes to mind for the restriction. I couldn't find anything in colregs that even says that the flag should only be flown when divers are in the water. In other words shot placement and retrieval might be diving operations? If a boat is following a spread out group of SMBs on a drift, it'smovements are not very restricted...
Now if you are not using a boat, no A flag is required. Common sense, rare that it is, would say use some kind of indicator. For some reason US sport divers used a different flag. US law has recently changed requiring dive boats on inland waters to use the A flag too.
Adrian
A policy of misinformation perhaps?
That couldn't happen in todays World could it? :D
I think it was a case of divers thinking the flag was cool therefore plastering it everywhere
Couldn't agree more, we divers usually only bother to learn one flag, then we get annoyed when other boat users don't know what ours means. There are quite a few flags used out there and all boat users should take trouble to learn them.
The awareness campaign is a great idea of course.
I'm also wondering how many divers think the 'divers down' flag is white with a red diagonal flash? I get a bit fed up seeing it splashed all over dive kit when it isn't even used in this, or many other countries. Probably more a Merkin thing than a PADI thing I guess.
The 'A' Flag and the Red/white/red flag are not completely unrelated! :rolleyes:
The 'A' Flag as we know is the Col Reg "optional" day signal to indicate the vessel is engaged in underwater operations and in the case of the 'A' flag specifically diving. In reality what you are signalling is you are restricted in your ability to manouver due to the underwater operation and the actual daysign should be ball/diamond/ball (which I would suggest would need more than a poster campaign for all seagoing 'muppets'? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: )
In restricted visibility, night, fog, heavy rain, daysigns of course are less visible and so you should display the appropriate lights. For this the correct light sequence is :
Red/white/red
sound familiar?:rolleyes:
Jim:cool:
PS I have no idea if the Merkin (Florida) flag actually derived from the light signals but if nothing else it is a useful way of remembering the light sequence:p
Adrian Kelland
02-06-2006, 09:25
The 'A' Flag and the Red/white/red flag are not completely unrelated! :rolleyes:
The 'A' Flag as we know is the Col Reg "optional" day signal to indicate the vessel is engaged in underwater operations and in the case of the 'A' flag specifically diving. In reality what you are signalling is you are restricted in your ability to manouver due to the underwater operation and the actual daysign should be ball/diamond/ball (which I would suggest would need more than a poster campaign for all seagoing 'muppets'? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: )
In restricted visibility, night, fog, heavy rain, daysigns of course are less visible and so you should display the appropriate lights. For this the correct light sequence is :
Red/white/red
sound familiar?:rolleyes:
Jim:cool:
PS I have no idea if the Merkin (Florida) flag actually derived from the light signals but if nothing else it is a useful way of remembering the light sequence:p
Given that charter dive boat skippers are seen as taxi drivers with responsibility stopping when it comes to the diving, I wonder where this leaves the flag or ball/diamond/ball symbols? I've only seen one skipper recently who uses the latter.
Adrian
An exocet missile is often needed
Knowing where you dive I now understand this. Your not kidding are you!!!
GaryC
York
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