Which regulator & octopus?

[GeoffB]

Anyone got any recommendations for a good quality regulator octopus setup, one that wont break the bank but give me years of good service. I'm new to all this still in the pool, but slowly building up my equipment as funds allow. By the way the nearest decent outlet for diving gear near me is dennys of Redcar!!

Geoff

[Adrian Kelland]

Always a tricky type of question Geoff. Most divers will have only used one or two different regulators. Even less can say why. Sometimes cheap price or techno fetish applies. Sometimes they just use what the instructor uses or what the local shop sells. The most expensive is not necessarily any better that lesser models down a marketing scale. Enough of that.

One thing about an octopus or pony reg - it needs to be at least as good as the reg you normally use. It needs to wrok when you most need it in what may be a very stressful situation.

I am using a pair (on a twin twinset) of Apeks TX50s (not ATX or XTX) on DS4 1st stages. I think that a pair of these would be better on a DST 1st satge to help hose routing, but it is not something I have done. Hopefully others here can confirm/deny. The ATX models are similar, but with a smaller body, the XTX range can have the hose on either hand. The TX/ATX ranges are right handed. The TXs are usually cheaper too, but not usually mentioned on shop websites. The are also very popular with the divers who go somewhat deeper and longer than I do, so they can't be all bad.

I chose mine after asking similar questions, and borrowing 2 or 3 different reg. I then chose on the basis of what felt comfortable to use when breathing hard in very cold water. A subjective, but fair test I think.

HTH, but you need to find something that works for you. Borrow before you buy.

Adrian

[John Bantin]

Warning: Unashamed Advertisement.

You need next months Diver Mag. Another regulator test in deep water and with ANSTI tests.

[Michael Purcell]

I love my Mares Abyss.

As you go deep there is no resistance to breathing.

And I am told this is the case even at depths far deeper than I intend at this point.

Having said that, when you go for a high-flow reg you need to remember that when it decides to freeflow at depth your tank is going to empty pretty quickly.

Also I can't whip it apart and self-service on a shot-line as you can with the Apexs rigs.

All of this gets me into a bit of a pickle now that I am adding a stage bottle. Do I add a Mares reg as matching kit provides the ability to swap components or do I switch to Apexs regs for some of the advantages the more technical crowd prefer.

I sure hate thinking about gear. :)

[michmoor]

I have tiguillos (think that how it is spelt, they got a good write up in a diver review last year, they are really comfortable and no resistance, cost about £70, I would look on the internet for a price, for whatever you end up choosing.

Hope this helps.

Michael Moore

[iain aitchison]

Hi Michael,

there is a resistance to breathing or there is a free flow, so even the Abyss has a slight resistance. Any reg in free flow has a malfunction - either caused by misuse, failure of components or freezing (normally in 1st stage first). The normal free flow is caused wither by inadequate maintenance or missuse (not using it correctly) or for what it is designed for.

Looking at the original post, I was surprised how good some entry level regs were when I tried them as hire kit. The basic Mares was not bad at sport depths in Ireland, although not having a side valve made me miss the flexibility in an AAS situation of my own Poseidons. My wife bought a Poseidon Cyclon as an entry reg ten years ago and it is still superb, even on much more advanced and technical dives now. Keeping them clean, well maintained and in frequent use is the key to long term satisfaction with any reg.

regards
Iain

[Ian@1904]

There is no one right answer to this. Do you intend to dive during the winter? In which case ensure that the regs are suitable for cold water diving.
Apex are popular, personally I like Scubapro.
As John has hinted some lower priced regs give surpisingly good performance.

FWIW
I dive all year round in fresh and salty water.
Make sure you get your regs serviced on a regular basis

[Chris Cherrington]

Any Apeks or Scubapro and you will not go far wrong. SP Mk2 (1st) is about as cheap as they come and is fine for recreational diving and makes a jolly good stage reg for technical diving when you get that far, 300 series 2nd stage would be my preference but 200 is OK too.... Apeks 40 2nd on a DS4 1st if you go for that brand (great after sales from a UK manufacturer BTW).

Avoid gimmicks like titanium (crap BTW) etc and buy a basic reg from a well know brand. At least that will sell on ebay if you don't like it or change your mind. :)

Chris

[Matt-75]

Apeks ATX40 with DST will set you back about £280 in the UK.

Thats what i got, and i love it. A TX40 will likely be less, and are what i trained on a couple of years back. Lovely regs.

Aqualung Titan LX are good as well and you can pick them up for about £280 as well.

Try GoDive for some prices, its where i got my apeks from.
http://www.godive.net/gdregs.htm

[Chris Cherrington]

Kent Diving.

ATX40/DS4 £147
http://www.kentdiving.com/prod.asp?partno=Apeks_ATX40_DS4
ATX40 Octo £90
http://www.kentdiving.com/prod.asp?partno=AP0506C

Or go for the Scubapro Mk2 package, reg octo and combo SPG all for £235 - free postage. (Mk 17 for a little bit more - just over 300)

http://www.kentdiving.com/prod.asp?partno=Scubapro%20Mk2%20R295%20Pack

I have bought from these guys lots of times without problem.

Chris

[Ian Barrie]

OCEANIC!!!!!!!!!

I've always liked the Oceanic brand.

The Oceanic Alpha 7 CDX and Alpha 7 octopus makes up a good set of regs. I've not used mine in water below 3C but for normal UK diving up to 50m I've never had problems with them.

Price them up and you'll find they're very reasonable.

If you keep them services every year as Oceanic recommend then there is only a basic charge regardless of any new parts replaced.

Ian

[Michael Purcell]

Hi Michael,

there is a resistance to breathing or there is a free flow, so even the Abyss has a slight resistance. Any reg in free flow has a malfunction - either caused by misuse, failure of components or freezing (normally in 1st stage first). The normal free flow is caused wither by inadequate maintenance or missuse (not using it correctly) or for what it is designed for.

Looking at the original post, I was surprised how good some entry level regs were when I tried them as hire kit. The basic Mares was not bad at sport depths in Ireland, although not having a side valve made me miss the flexibility in an AAS situation of my own Poseidons. My wife bought a Poseidon Cyclon as an entry reg ten years ago and it is still superb, even on much more advanced and technical dives now. Keeping them clean, well maintained and in frequent use is the key to long term satisfaction with any reg.

regards
Iain

My favourite British word learned this semester...

pedantic
:cool:

[SpeedDemon]

I use an Oceanic CDx5 1st stage coz its cold water rated so I can dive in the UK all year round :D

and I use 2 Oceanic Alpha 8s' for my 2nd stage and Octopus. My LSC recommended this combination as it offered quality build, good performance at an affordable price. Being Oceanic they also come with a lifetime warranty with FREE parts for life too, if required during the annual service :cool:

[Adrian Kelland]

I use an Oceanic CDx5 1st stage coz its cold water rated so I can dive in the UK all year round :D

and I use 2 Oceanic Alpha 8s' for my 2nd stage and Octopus. My LSC recommended this combination as it offered quality build, good performance at an affordable price. Being Oceanic they also come with a lifetime warranty with FREE parts for life too, if required during the annual service :cool:
All fair points, but bear in mind that it is probably unlikely that your LDS would have recommended something it did not sell.

Adrian

[Chris Cherrington]

... Being Oceanic they also come with a lifetime warranty with FREE parts for life too, if required during the annual service :cool:

Work out the cost of an annual service versus (say) a three year service to see if this is a good deal. Most regs don't need much in the way of parts.

That aside this is a reasonably good reg for sure.

Chris

[AndyDavis]

I am a big fan of Poseidon regs...and use Cyklon 5000s with my twins. having said that, I do own a set of Apeks T50d with T40 octopus that I bought secondhand 8 years ago. They still perform brilliantly...as close to bulletproof as you can get.

[Gordon]

Theres a quote on here somewhere from Woz, that goes along the lines of 'the only regs that can stand being dragged all the way across Capenwray every time the club go training are Poseidons or Apeks.'

Me and my dad are on cyklons/xstreams, mum and brother on ATX/XTX 40s.

Both cracking regs that you cant go wrong with.

[stevied]

Hi,

I use a Mares Proton on a V16 1st Stage and i have to say i really like it. I have never found it difficult at any of the depths i have been to. Saying that i also like the Cyklon (my AAS).

The most important thing when chosing a reg IMVHO is trying out as many different ones as you can. Ask your friends, other people in your club or LDS and i'm sure they will be happy to let you try them out.

Once you have used a few you can make an informed decision on which you prefer. :D

ATB

Steve

[Jon H]

i got a apex xtx50 first stage and a xtx 40 octopus and a cressi gage which cost me 425 quid but i got a free compass it isn't the cheapest around but i think there OK and i would rather spend more money there because there your life line

[iain aitchison]

Hi Steve,

I read this post that you mix a mares and poseidon? If so you should be very careful about combining first and second stages from different manufacturers and indeed different models of the same manufacturer. One the interstage pressures and flows may not be compatible, two you become the manufacturer of the combination in its legal sense. Theoretically by an incident where the cause could be identified in a regulator failure for which you were legally the manufacurer in this way, you could inadvertently subject yourself to the legal consequences. Apart from all of that, the manufacturers test the octopus as a AAS combination so theirs should be the best combination. Also an AAS is really only a pseudo safety cop out for shallow warm water direct ascents, so in the UK and in more technical situations and at all but a minimum depth we should be using redundant first stages as an AAS. Just think about what happens when that lone first stage goes down on you - what all do you loose? The MP ports are hose routing options after all and not a challenge to find things to use them for. Many divers would loose all gas and all bouyancy if their primary first stage failed - woops.

regards
Iain

[David Walker]

Lacking a bit of optimism there Iain... While twin first stages (or just twin cylinders) are nice, they do have their drawbacks. If you can't reach the valves - quite likely on a single with twin outlets - then there's little point in having the additional first stage. For new divers too, its an added complication they don't need.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about mixing manufacturers either. As long as the IP matches there should be no problem. In the end, the only link between the 1st and 2nd stage is through that hose, and the only variable is the pressure of the air (and how quickly the 1st stage reacts, but that will only cause the breathing to be a little strange, rather than any real problems). Most manufacturers use the same IP, and so most can be mixed & matched. And while it does make it an uncertified combination, the only way that would become a problem would be if you were selling them or renting them or something - actually diving on them yourself will never cause you any problems (unless you have insurance that says you're only covered for certain approved combinations.... but thats very unlikely, and you don't need insurance in the UK anyway because of the NHS).

Nothing wrong with wanting to stick to the default combinations, but there's not really any danger in not doing so, as long as the IP matches.

David

[mark - sandman]

Apeks for me,

Cold water sealed (beyond the European requirements). Reasonably priced. Good internal design that doesn't cause headaches for a service engineer. (Or cause you problems in the water). Easily obtainable spares as its all manufactured in the UK.
The bottom end of the range second stages are as good as the top end, just less knobs to play with for extra fine tune. Egress octopus works upside down so you or your buddy can use it without worrying about which way up it is.
The XTX range has a primary regulator that can be easily converted from left to right handed. Or ist that the other way around????

[Woz]

Theres a quote on here somewhere from Woz, that goes along the lines of 'the only regs that can stand being dragged all the way across Capenwray every time the club go training are Poseidons or Apeks.'

Me and my dad are on cyklons/xstreams, mum and brother on ATX/XTX 40s.

Both cracking regs that you cant go wrong with.Yep and I stand by that too.

Here's my ten pennorth:

Poseidon
Jetstreams- really a deep reg. Rubbish breathe in the shallows, great deep. Weird air delivery yu either love or hate.
XStreams- a Jetstream with a different hat on
Cyklons- more of a 'normal' reg but can be temperamental if not used regularly or soaked after use in fresh water
Servicing- neds to be done by an experienced Poseidon service tech. Expect to pay about 30% more for a service than other regs.

Apeks
TX range- love it. I've got a TX40 as my main reg and it breathes like a dream at any depth.
ATX- I've got a 100 as a backup reg. Doesn't breathe as nice as the TX40 and the 1st stage is a bit of a pain for twinset hose routing.
XTX- the club have just bought one. Looks like an ATX with a facelift.

So there. My recommendation would be to go for a TX/ATX/XTX 50 with the DST 1st stage and a TX or ATX 40 octo. The 100/200 is just jewellery and does not offer any benefit. Plus the 1st stage ports are a PITA- the turret is much better. Poseidons are not for beginners, especially the Jetstream and XStream. Cyklons are ok but do not breathe half as nice as an Apeks.

If you buy new be aware that most Apeks regs settle a bit on the 2nd stage seat so will need a little adjustment after a bit of use.

[Rich B]

Hi Geoff,
I agree with nearly everything everyone has said so far. I remember when i was buying my first regs. Lots of opinions from others, which is gd as long as you remember its their opinion. When you buy a reg and octo you have to feel comfortable with it. Also try to remember your budget, you have lots of other dive gear to buy. Balance this with comfort and safety which come at a reasonable price and you will get an excellent beginner set. Afterall this thing is going to be in ur mouth a while. Some people like side valves others dont, same with levers and those without (Poseidons) I think most people would agree when i say try them out. I spent a while at the bottom of the pool trying 5 different types before i bought one later on. They all feel slightly different. It all depends on what you feel comfortable with. A guide for you is, Mares, Apeks and Poseidon (not the only ones but they are gd!) Remember that this wont be your only reg for long and thats when the fun starts!:eek: hehehe well gd luck at trying them out, try and get a deal where you have the octo included. I hope this has balanced some of the rather persuasive posts on this thread.

If anyone wants to know my first pair was Cyklon 5000 (also gd for cold water diving) :D

[Michael Purcell]

Hi Geoff,
Remember that this wont be your only reg for long and thats when the fun starts!

And that is the place I am at.
Many of the people I dive with are going the "faux DIR" route. I too am switching to a wing setup, and while I read all of the GUE material will thankfully likely never be considered DIR. (Do It wRong)

I must say though there is significant pressure for me to dump my Mares Abyss and move over to the Apexs. As I am moving onto stages it presents a bit of decision. Buy more Mares. Or buy Apex for the stages and keep my Abyss or let my wife have my lovely Abyss and go strictly Apexs.

I see value in each decision but I still haven't made up my mind.
*Peer Pressure Sux* :D

[Woz]

Mares are perfectly nice regs. No problem with them myself apart from the bloody silly blanking plugs which are non-standard on the 1st stage. Too many spoilers, side skirts and tinted windows on them for my liking.

Going the DIR route sounds like a good idea but you are better off thinking about it long and hard first. I went Apeks cos lots of others in the club dive Apeks and they are a reliable reg. However if you are a Mares, S/Pro or even Sherwood club then look at theose possibilities and if possible have a try first.

I fancied an XStream. So when I had a chance at a pair I had a trial with them and they were rubbish for club diving. Great for taking to 60m on air but rubbish for 20m club dives.

[Roz]

I would strongly recommend that you stick to the same manufacturer for your First Stage, your regulator and your octopus. These have been designed and tested to work together. (I believe that you can put a Ford Oil Filter onto a VW, but it doesn't work as well as a VW Oil Filter that was specifically designed for the car. The same goes with diving).

With gauges, go and pick one that you can read easily, and you like looking at. You should have a depth and pressure gauge. Pick which ever manufacturer pushes your buttons visually. After all you will be reading (or attempting to) this gauge at depth, in the dark or in low viz.

Over the years I have dived many regs. Scubapro, Dacor, Apeks and Aqualung. I'm curently diving an Oceanic Delta 3 DX4 with an Alpha 7 Octopus which I bought new in 2001. This reg setup has done about 2,000 dives. It's looking used now, but still performs nicely thanks. I've found the Lifetime Warranty to first owner on Oceanic Life Support Products helpful, as I only pay for labour when my reg is serviced. This is one thing to consider when buying a reg. How easily can your LDS get servicing bits for the regulator you wish to buy?

You have been given a lot of good advice above. The lower Scubapro range are pretty indestructible, which is why a lot of schools use Mark 3, R290. It puts up with a lot of grief and still works and is fine in cold water.

You will find that you will probably buy a reg and in three years time, suffer from the all things shiny factor and want to upgrade. This is quite natural, we've all done it.

As for Denney Diving. They will give you good advice, Mr Denney Senior has been in the diving industry for I think 50 years, and is respected by many people. As your LDS you can't go far wrong with this shop. They will serve you well.

[GeoffB]

Finally dived in at the deep end after reading peoples replies on here and listening friends recommendations, my setup now consists of scubapro Mk17, R395, and 395 Octo..used in the pool twice where they have worked well apart from having a tendancy to freeflow with a vengence.took it back to Dennys who promply sorted it for me, dry suit was fine too...bought it in the end!!

[Tanya]

The best way to find a reg that will suit your diving quirements is to ask your fellow club members what they use and are they happy with it, it is not always what you should buy it is also as important to know what not to buy.

[Tanya]

The best way to find a reg that will suit your diving quirements is to ask your fellow club members what they use and are they happy with it, it is not always what you should buy it is also as important to know what not to buy.

[garethwoodruff]

Well,

if budget is tight, go for a set of Scubapro for £199 including postage.

http://www.deepbluedive.com/product.aspx?id=10931

If not an Apeks ATX 40 and ATX 40 Octopus is a nice set up.

Cheers,

Gareth.

[Chris Cherrington]

The best way to find a reg that will suit your diving quirements is to ask your fellow club members what they use and are they happy with it, ...

Why? What if no-one uses Apeks for example?

There's a lot more knowledge out here than in most clubs to be honest.

Chris

[John Bantin]

People will inevitably tell you to buy one like they own or one like they sell!
Just be sure the one you buy works properly. I am shocked that I have been supplied regulators by many well known manufacturers that have proved faulty when uised at depth. You would think they would be clever enough to check them before they send them to a magazine to use and write about. What chance does the ordinary consumer have?

[markbsac]

save up and buy a set of us divers conshelf supreme there what the military and many comercial divers use...they aint cheap...but what cost is quality and reliability ! MDE in leicester are the main agent for us divers kit.

[Chris Cherrington]

Are you still looking Geoff?

Deep Blue have SP Mk17/390 + octo (295) + twin console for £249 at the minute.

Chris

[Stormchaser]

I have spent a good amount of time researching for my first Reg purchase and it seems that the APEKS ATX40 comes out favourably. Whould there be any benefits in buying the more ATX200 model?

[Gordon]

ATX200s claim to give you a nicer breath at depth, but I know people that swear by ATX40s to 150m :eek:
If I didnt already have my Cyklons, Id either buy another set of them or a set of ATX 40s.

[PeteM]

I have spent a good amount of time researching for my first Reg purchase and it seems that the APEKS ATX40 comes out favourably. Whould there be any benefits in buying the more ATX200 model?

My TX40's are fine at over 50m on air, any deeper and I am on trimix so they will still be fine

[stu wall]

Hi,
For what its worth i have used many of the popular brands of regulators over the years but moved to Apeks a couple of years ago with the ATX 200 as my main regulator and an ATX50 as an octopus, an excellent rig which performs really well.
So pleased i currently have on order the XTX200 & XTX50.
My son owns the ATX 50 AND ATX 40 and these have served him well with regular servicing now for a number of years.

I guess i am just a satisfied customer for what its worth so at the end of the day the choice is down to you. ;)