View Full Version : Rib deck layouts
Ben Thompson
30-11-2005, 11:09
Howdy all,
My club is in the process of getting a new rib, and have sorted out the hull and the tubes, but are currently undecided about the deck layout.
So, for a rib used specifically for diving, do people have any opinions about the deck layout? (Console position & size, bottle racks)
It's a 6.5m rib, so looking at taking up to 10 divers (on singles) or less on twins...
Ta!
John Williams
30-11-2005, 11:53
Depends upon the type of diving, the type of weather you typically go out in and the type of diver - and the type of kit they use! (amongst other things!)
No point in one of those fancy "picton" style consoles with insets for single cylinders if you all use twins!
Do you make your kit up (and wear separate life jackets) for the journeys to/from the site - or do you have your kit in a goody bag, cylinder in the rack and wear your BCD to and from?
How many usually ride in the boat. We had a 6.5 and regularly got 8 and a cox into it - but it could also be full with 4 and a cox (depending on the journey and the divers)
What engine? What Prop? There's no pont in providing for 10 divers and their kit if your engine/prop wont push the weight onto the plane!
What does the manufacturer recommend? - they have far more experience of what others have done with their boats than anyone else could possibly have accumulated!
Do you have any special considerations? (like a low door to your boat shed that would limit the height of a console or console screen)
What have you seen and liked (or disliked). Have you tried different configurations with holiday operators/other branches?
Guess what big Regional Boathandling courses are good for?
A little more info might get you more informed answers/opinions
HTH
John
Ben Thompson
30-11-2005, 12:28
The engine and prop, weather and all that lot are sorted out...
The question really is, if you're sticking 10 divers on a rib, and you're looking at taking a mix of singles and twins, fully kitted up, in a large variety of conditions and experience (we're a uni branch) where do you stick the console, and racks?
Is a double console a good idea? Gives you a co-cox to do nav and comms and good for teaching, but reduces the ability of the cox to get to the opposite side of the boat, and changes the visibility down one side, and also uses up a lot of space.
One long rack for cylinders behind the console, or a short one (say 6 singles) and then 2 either side of the engine at the back? Leaving large amounts of deck space free?
The boat we're getting is here:
http://www.ribcraft.co.uk/ribcraft6.5.html
And I'm going to ask them what they recommend, but was just looking for ideas. I've seen (and been on/driven) numerous boats, but have never really had a chance to talk about exactly why consoles are put where they are, and racks and safety gear.
Everyone does it differently, I know how I do it, but was looking for any opinions really!
E.g., what do you have? We've been using a single narrow console with a single long tank rack behind it. We've found that the cosole is a bit too narrow to get to the electrics easily if you're not driving, and it's quite difficult to use the radio if you're not the cox. The tank rack works mostly OK, but bootless twins often end up lying down at the back of the boat... Hence the ideas for the wider console and split tank racks...
Erm... waffling now...
Thought of NO bottle rack!
Bottle racks restrict deck space. OK if a standard cylinder, but 12l dumpys don't useually fit, twin sets take up a lot of the rack. Difficult to secure Rebreathers.
If only 4 on the rib the space is marvellous! if 6 OK and 8 no prob. Lying kit down is fine.
If the brown stuff hits the fan - a more usable working area - even if the poor sod is lying on top of the kit.
Selling on may be easier too - Waterski-ers don't want a bottle rack so you will have a larger market.
£300+ for a rack is a lot of fuel!
Just my farthing's worth
Ben Thompson
30-11-2005, 13:22
Thought of NO bottle rack!
A good point... do you not have a problem with kit sliding around the deck? I've only ever been on smaller ribs (up to 6 people) without a rack, which worked OK, but I'm not sure how well it would work with 10 sets of kit?
No problem with kit sliding about, and easier to get back onto the RIB as when you gracefully? pull yourself in over the tubes you have the whole deck to flop about in!
Paul Morris
30-11-2005, 14:27
A good point... do you not have a problem with kit sliding around the deck? I've only ever been on smaller ribs (up to 6 people) without a rack, which worked OK, but I'm not sure how well it would work with 10 sets of kit?
Well, I can't see you having a problem with 10 sets of kit :eek:
Everything will be packed in nicey tighty. No sliding around.
More likely to be a prob with 2-4 divers when the sets can roam around your vast aft deck. :p I'm just jealous.
Our club have two RIBs. A small 4.8m Ribcraft, and a 5m Humber. The Ribcraft has a single console, the Humber is tiller steered. Neither have bottle racks. I agree with your points about the single console. Only the cox, or someone standing directly behind him can see or use the instruments. But you trust the cox, right ;)
Our guys tend to use singles so we can get four sets (2 rows x2) which sit snugly between the tubes. As the Humber doesn't have a console we can do another row and get 6 sets onboard safely.
If its twinsets, then two (maybe 3) twinsets on the Ribcraft, four on the Humber, although my 300bar 7s take up the same deck space as a single set
Downside of not having a bottle rack is care of the kit. My twin 7s get scratched just above the bands as they abrade on the deck. Most people diving singles use cylinder mesh to protect the cylinders. Thats the minor problem. The major problem, is no matter how hard you try people will stand on kit accidentally, or otherwise with the risk of damage to vulnerable second stages, and integrated computers or transmitters. This has to be the main plus of a bottle rack.
There was a group in our club that campaigned for a bottle rack on our 4.8m Ribcraft. Nice idea, would look good but we'd have to take it in turns to sit at the bow and fit our fins! :D If you fit a rack, just bear in mind the beam of the boat, and the all important inner width between the tubes though I'm sure that won't be a problem on your monster RIB.
John Williams
30-11-2005, 14:54
The engine and prop, weather and all that lot are sorted out...
You might have got it sorted...but we can't really advise you from a position of knowing what you intend to do with the boat if we don't know what your intentions are???
The No bottle rack option is good in a millpond...or if the deck can be packed tight (and no-one wants to move about on a long run out to that wreck 40 miles offshore)
You've also been given a no console option ...again - not a reasonable concept if you have separate sounder, magno, GPS, Plotter, Radar, Radio ...or an engine bigger than a 50 (which would be fine for a potter out to a local reef off the plane!)
John
Paul Morris
30-11-2005, 16:16
You've also been given a no console option ...again - not a reasonable concept if you have separate sounder, magno, GPS, Plotter, Radar, Radio ...or an engine bigger than a 50 (which would be fine for a potter out to a local reef off the plane!)
Important point about the open deck. The open deck Humber was meant to be a secondary boat for us, teaming up with the smaller Ribcraft with all its electronics to get us to the right spot. As its happened, the Humber is imminently more usable (for most of our diving), the extra space is to die for but surprisingly ?? there's no queue of eager coxons for a tiller boat :(
I'd agree not a great option for a primary boat these days, but we've got around the major problems with handheld or wrist mounted GPS units, battery powered sounder fixed to an A-frame bracket, and handheld radios with a fixed aerial on the A-frame (if we get around to fixing it!). Oh, and plenty of rechargable batteries in the emergency boat box :D
Power is limited due to tiller steering, but we went for the Evinrude E-tec 40 which we had re-chipped (at the factory, I hasten to add) to 50hp. The engine has outperformed all our expectations, beats the cr*p out of our 60hp Mercury and will plane at 20kts with 6 divers onboard (in good conditions!). We probably could have got away with the 40hp e-tec, on the shallow-v humber alpha hull. However, in slight to moderate sea state, its a nightmare.
As it happens, we're now talking about fitting a jet ski battery (at least they're good for something) into a transom mounted box to give us onboard power, and electrically-assisted start (to power the e-tec electrickery, rather than pulling 14-times to re-prime if you run out of fuel!).
Its a great boat for pottering around in, but in the right conditions its as good as any. This summer I had it 12 miles out of West Bay on the Sidon doing 21kts all the way with 6 divers onboard. We left the Ribcraft at home as it was too small!
Sounding too positive here, so as I said above this option does have severe limitations in handling in rougher seas, and of course it needs to be a small boat if you take tiller steering. To be honest, its not really going to be an option for you - sorry.
As for magnos, plotters, radars, navtext, satellite phones. No lottery grants here mate! :)
Never had a problem with gear sliding about, and we've taken it to the Scillies in a less than calm sea!
Load the boat correctly - and with the kit in order of use.
We have a single seat Console, fuel tank built in. Person sta on tube alongside Cox'n can operate the GPS & sounder without getting in the way.
All we need know is the enthusiasm and members to take our 5.8 Tornado out!
Ben Thompson
01-12-2005, 13:06
You might have got it sorted...but we can't really advise you from a position of knowing what you intend to do with the boat if we don't know what your intentions are???
Understood... I'm not sure how much difference it would make though. It's got a 150 2-stroke Mariner on the back of it, which on the old 6.8 with a not very good hull went like stink.
Weather conditions are mostly going to be less than 4/5's, but we'll probably take it out in 6's for training/fun/scaring ourselves silly.
Bearing in mind the beam of the boat we're looking at is going to be a bit wider than most, is a double console a good idea?
I'm still just mostly looking for any preference people have- the points about not having a bottle rack or console are good, but given that we'll be having a console, and that we'd prefer to go for a rack, are there any really bright ideas about where we stick them?
Cheers,
Ben
Dave Bewick
04-12-2005, 21:16
My club has a 6.5m Ospray. We spent alot of time and beer deciding on the layout and have been very happy with it. We have a small anchor locker, which kit bags rest on, a single consol and an athwart-ships bottle rack just behind that. This leaves a big area aft for kitting up or flopping into, but retains the ability to strap all the kit together for rough transits. We use 11 as a max number in calm seas and 9 in rough. Most divers have at least a pony, with some twinsets and a couple of rebreathers. The gap between the support stanchions for the bottle rack and the tubes is just the right size to slip a twin 7lt or Evolution between.
David Walker
04-12-2005, 22:43
Do you make your kit up (and wear separate life jackets) for the journeys to/from the site - or do you have your kit in a goody bag, cylinder in the rack and wear your BCD to and from?
... or alternatively just trust that your a zipped up drysuit (or semidry if you're that way inclined) will float! :rolleyes:
My old club RIB sounds a bit like what you're getting - a very wide 6.5m hull. Ours was single engine, single centre console with a short bottle rack behind - had a big A-frame too. I don't have any measurements or anything, but the layout left roughly 2m behind the bottle rack of 'free' floor space. With up to 10 divers (many with twinsets) there was always plenty of space- if we wanted to we could all move up and leave the back end behind the bottle rack completely clear.
Not sure about going without the bottle rack. With that much space I think it tidies up the layout and doesn't take much space. Also gives people something to hold onto if you're standing up (more comfortable I find). We tend to strap a few twinsets / stage bottles to the back end of the bottle rack if we're short on space - but its always strapped in. Another RIB i've used a lot (much smaller) without a bottle rack was basically cylinders all lying down which completely covered the deck space. Not unmanageable, but unnecessarily untidy, hard to get at kit etc, and difficult to kit up with crap lying around everywhere. Not recommended in my opinion.
If by a double console you mean one beside another I don't see the point - takes up valuable deck space for very little (if any) benefit. Never seen a RIB like that actually :confused:
David
John Williams
05-12-2005, 01:34
Quote:
Do you make your kit up (and wear separate life jackets) for the journeys to/from the site - or do you have your kit in a goody bag, cylinder in the rack and wear your BCD to and from?
... or alternatively just trust that your a zipped up drysuit (or semidry if you're that way inclined) will float!
You could do that....but what guarantee do you have that you'll float the right way up!
If you get knocked out as you fall out - you'll need a buoyancy device that will hold you upright and facing the sky!
I guess it's all about risk-assessment.
Hey - speaking of assessing risk at sea!
has everyone taken advantage of this free service from the RNLI yet?
http://www.rnliseasafety.org.uk/leisure/seacheck
John
You could do that....but what guarantee do you have that you'll float the right way up!
If you get knocked out as you fall out - you'll need a buoyancy device that will hold you upright and facing the sky!
So not a BCD then?
Certainly all the Buddies we have down the club have large labels that say they are not flotation devices and don't guarantee a heads up position.
We encourage everyone to wear a semi-dry or a zipped up drysuit.
Janos
Paul Morris
05-12-2005, 12:59
So not a BCD then?
...
We encourage everyone to wear a semi-dry or a zipped up drysuit.
Not knocking this directly, as we do exactly the same but you must accept there is little chance a semi-dry or drysuit will hold an unconscious casulalty face up at the surface, the buoyancy characteristics are wrong. Surely a drysuit would float you feet up, or kind of / in the water with your head just under (little buoyancy around shoulders).
A fully inflated BC or lifejacket should hold your shoulders clear of the water (if it has sufficient buoyancy in the first place!).
Most BCs are designed with this in mind, and I'm sure the disclaimer you saw on the buddy range is intended to protect against any possible litigation.
Paul.
manxdiver
05-12-2005, 13:37
Ben
We have the 7.8m version of this boat. Double width touring console as far forward as it would go, thought about aft mounting it but decided against it so that a complete idiot could still cox the boat. We have a bottle rack mounted in the middle of the free deck space and it works great. Let me know if you want some pictures
Steve
Ben Thompson
05-12-2005, 13:41
Yeah, a piccy would be good- do you not find the console takes up a lot of space? I guess you've got a longer boat, so that's ok... Guess I should have spoken to you about this on saturday whilst I was actually talking to you!
Doh!
Hi.
You want a bottle rack or something similar, or even a bog standard stainless steel looped tube fastened to the back of the console big enough for four divers to hold on to, even with one extra standing, because your passengers usually congregate around the back of the drivers seat when underway, and it is safer for your passengers to be leaning in to wards the centre of the boat, than hanging on the lines round the outside, where they could bounce out.
You can even fasten two YBOD's on the end rather than lying them down, all the normal bottles twin sets etc can be safely laid down with the bags on top.
I do not think it is a good idea assembling the kit before you set off, I have seen to much stuff broken when bounced about while underway, it is safer in your diving bag, pity about any puckers having to kit up in a swell though!.
David Walker
05-12-2005, 23:58
I do not think it is a good idea assembling the kit before you set off, I have seen to much stuff broken when bounced about while underway, it is safer in your diving bag, pity about any puckers having to kit up in a swell though!.
Really? How many others go out in RIBs without the kit assembled? Chances are that between dives you won't strip it all down again and put it back in your when you're travelling, so why before you get to the first site? Much easier to carry and stow on the boat when its assembled, you won't unnecessarily soak your kit bag (which I very rarely use - put kit together before I leave home, dissasemble it when i'm ready to wash it when I get back).
If its getting damaged in transit then maybe a different boat layout would help? All cylinders standing up strapped to a bottle rack has never caused any problems for us. As long as you don't leave long hose regs trailing halfway around the boat then I can't see what damage you can do. Obviously fins and mask etc need to be kept tidy - we generally use the net "goody bags" for keeping fins and things in until we're ready to dive - all usually chucked infront of the console.
Just get a big strap and you won't have any kit bouncing out - for the cylinders we find one of the types of strap used to secure the boat to the trailer is easy to use and very strong.
David
Really? How many others go out in RIBs without the kit assembled? Chances are that between dives you won't strip it all down again and put it back in your when you're travelling, so why before you get to the first site? Much easier to carry and stow on the boat when its assembled, you won't unnecessarily soak your kit bag (which I very rarely use - put kit together before I leave home, dissasemble it when i'm ready to wash it when I get back).
If its getting damaged in transit then maybe a different boat layout would help? All cylinders standing up strapped to a bottle rack has never caused any problems for us. As long as you don't leave long hose regs trailing halfway around the boat then I can't see what damage you can do. Obviously fins and mask etc need to be kept tidy - we generally use the net "goody bags" for keeping fins and things in until we're ready to dive - all usually chucked infront of the console.
Just get a big strap and you won't have any kit bouncing out - for the cylinders we find one of the types of strap used to secure the boat to the trailer is easy to use and very strong.
David
Thats one way of doing it, maybe you have a big rib. On boats that are less than 6 metres the gear takes up less room stacked near the back of the boat in your bag, with the bottles laid down, put the weight belts up front to balance the weight distribution more evenly. We always put the gear back in the bags before we set off back as well, if you do it methodically you will usually end up with same amount of equipment you set off with. Hmmmmm why have I so many left handed gloves. my mate has a lot of right handed ones as well. I cant understand it?.
Get rid of your bottle rack and you will be amazed at the amount of room you gain, after all they are so 80's, they should have gone out with Disco!:D.
David Walker
06-12-2005, 13:29
Thats one way of doing it, maybe you have a big rib. On boats that are less than 6 metres the gear takes up less room stacked near the back of the boat in your bag, with the bottles laid down, put the weight belts up front to balance the weight distribution more evenly. We always put the gear back in the bags before we set off back as well, if you do it methodically you will usually end up with same amount of equipment you set off with. Hmmmmm why have I so many left handed gloves. my mate has a lot of right handed ones as well. I cant understand it?.
I was particularly describing the layout of a 6.5m RIB, but even on a small narrow 5.3m RIB i'd never consider taking kit in bags - for one thing its too bloody small to squash bags on - we struggle to get 4 sets of kit on the thing! With 4 sets of kit there's basically no floor space... and to be honest I think its more likely we'd lose a fairly light bag bouncing over the side compared to a full scuba set!
If it works then fine - I just didn't think people used them like that, I can't imagine doing it myself. :)
David
Ind to be honest I think its more likely we'd lose a fairly light bag bouncing over the side compared to a full scuba set!
:)
David
How fast are you going, it would have to be a speed fast enough to make your ears bleed, to bounce gear out!:rolleyes:
Our rib is a 5.5 rib and we can get six sets of kit (including the odd twinset) on. Although it's a bit cosy. This is a console with a six bottle rack behind it (twinset goes on the end).
With six it's a bit of a pain for everyone to kit up and once so, if we're not diving in waves, we get the first pair in which gives the others space to kit up themselves. Weightbelts and goody bags go up front.
A bigger rib would be nice though.
Janos
Not knocking this directly, as we do exactly the same but you must accept there is little chance a semi-dry or drysuit will hold an unconscious casulalty face up at the surface, the buoyancy characteristics are wrong.Keep going...You are in danger of working out the benefits of an ABLJ :D
Adrian Kelland
07-12-2005, 20:41
Our rib is a 5.5 rib and we can get six sets of kit (including the odd twinset) on. Although it's a bit cosy. This is a console with a six bottle rack behind it (twinset goes on the end).
With six it's a bit of a pain for everyone to kit up and once so, if we're not diving in waves, we get the first pair in which gives the others space to kit up themselves. Weightbelts and goody bags go up front.
A bigger rib would be nice though.
Janos
Sounds just like ours.
A bit small, but too much bigger and less people can tow it.
Adrian
Not knocking this directly, as we do exactly the same but you must accept there is little chance a semi-dry or drysuit will hold an unconscious casulalty face up at the surface, the buoyancy characteristics are wrong. Surely a drysuit would float you feet up, or kind of / in the water with your head just under (little buoyancy around shoulders).
A fully inflated BC or lifejacket should hold your shoulders clear of the water (if it has sufficient buoyancy in the first place!).
Most BCs are designed with this in mind, and I'm sure the disclaimer you saw on the buddy range is intended to protect against any possible litigation.
Hum. I'm not sure. Try wearing an inflated BCD in the pool without a tank as a counterweight - it does tend to tip you forward.
Janos
Sounds just like ours.
A bit small, but too much bigger and less people can tow it.
Adrian
We are quite lucky in our club we have 4 private boats between 5.2 and 5.6 metres all with big engines 110 / 130 hp, and as they are private boats we keep the numbers to 4 per boat, (less damage) and it gives you plenty of room to kit up, 2 up boat handling 2 diving per boat.
We nearly all dive with large twin sets and rebreathers, so space is soon gobbled up with kit.:rolleyes:
The club rib goes out maybe once or twice a year, usually August bank holiday at the Farnes when we usually have up to thirty divers from our branch, the rest of the year's diving is taken up easily by the private boats.;)
Adrian Kelland
10-12-2005, 10:50
We are quite lucky in our club we have 4 private boats between 5.2 and 5.6 metres all with big engines 110 / 130 hp, and as they are private boats we keep the numbers to 4 per boat, (less damage) and it gives you plenty of room to kit up, 2 up boat handling 2 diving per boat.
We nearly all dive with large twin sets and rebreathers, so space is soon gobbled up with kit.:rolleyes:
The club rib goes out maybe once or twice a year, usually August bank holiday at the Farnes when we usually have up to thirty divers from our branch, the rest of the year's diving is taken up easily by the private boats.;)
May as well not have the RIB by the sound of it Ray. Thats a lot of money tied up to be used a couple of times a year.
IMHO of course.
Adrian
May as well not have the RIB by the sound of it Ray. Thats a lot of money tied up to be used a couple of times a year.
IMHO of course.
Adrian
Your not wrong but politics come into play, :confused: we would have the monopoly on the diving if we controlled all the boats through the private sector.:rolleyes:
Still it sometimes comes in handy if we break one of our boats, (blew mi engine up in the sound of Mull, ouch).:confused:
Cost a fortune with the repairs, and insurance etc when it only goes out a couple of times a year, but hey ho its paid for and it does give it a run!.:D
Adrian Kelland
11-12-2005, 19:06
Your not wrong but politics come into play, :confused:
Ah yes, the downside of clubs.
That and 'tradition' :(
Adrian
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