New computer required - HELP!

[Paul Morris]

Following the catastrophic death of my UWATEC SmartCOM on Good Friday, I'm in the market for a new dive computer.

I'm having trouble ensuring I spend my hard earned (or hopefully the insurance companies ill gotten gains :rolleyes: ), on the right bit of kit for my needs.

I've outgrown the SmartCom so are now looking for:
multi-mix Nitrox (preferably back gas + 2 nitrox)
future ability for Trimix
air-integration would be nice.

I don't know which way to go. I liked the air-integration & easy download ability of the SmartCOM to PDA or Mac, but could probably live without it. I outgrew the single mix Nitrox, and understandably now HATE wet contacts :mad:

I'm thinking Vytec/VR2/VR3/SmartTec, but favouring the VR? route at the mo.

Vytecs are popular, but no trimix and the transmitter pairing seems a faff from what I've seen. VR3 seems to tick most boxes, has VPM-B, but at a hefty price and to be honest I've heard as much bad as good regarding them - largely around Delta Ps money grabbing PIN code & upgrade system, but also some usability gripes.

Any others I should consider, or any experiences (particularly usability/reliability) of either Vytecs or VR3s.

Download features for PDA or Mac would also be a welcome bonus. :cool:

Thanks,
Paul

P.S. The "catastrophic death" was nothing more exciting than being stepped on in the RIB, and being broken clean in two. :eek: Had to give myself a quick refresher on diving BSAC Nitrox tables the whole weekend ;)

[David Walker]

I like the Suunto's. Very reliable, easy to use, proven track record, etc. Some say the wireless link for the transmitter on the Vytec is a little unreliable, others have no problem with it. *Personally*, i'd ignore the air integration and stick with an SPG, but hey thats just me! :rolleyes:

The VRx's are very good if you need the extra stuff they do (trimix or CCR), but for simpy multi-mix nitrox i'd think they were way over the top, both in terms of price and size. A friend of mine has one, but ever since he got it he really didn't like pressing the buttons underwater because of their tendency to pop out (I found this out as he was explaining all the things you could do with them, but that he didn't because of the button problem). To be fair its probably not that much of an issue, but there is definitely a bit of a DIY quality of the VRx's that the Suunto's obviously don't have.

However, if you're looking for the future trimix ability, then of the two your only choice is the VR3!

David

[MattS]

I have been using a VR3 since the old brick model was launched. Previous to that I had Suunto's, Aladins and Cochran's. For my money, inwater the current VR models are the most usable of the tech computers. The way you use them is quite intuitive. Some people struggle with the interface but that will always be a problem when you are restricted to a couple buttons.

The diver on the shotline visual ascent reference is a touch of genius. It's instantly comprehensible however task loaded or narced you happen to be. The gas switching method is as simple as it can be and intuituve if you think about it from the point of view of physically switching gasses. Some of the newer features have made it a little more complicated than it was originally but it's not rocket science. You just need to check that your in switch mode prior to trying to switch.

I have around 1000 hours logged on VR3s and encountered almost no problems on the newer model. Mine is an early production version so has the old flimsy circlips. One popped out once, but it has stayed put since I refitted it. Newer versions have much more robust circlips holding the buttons in. Battery life has caught me out once or twice, with the VR3 shutting down close to the end of a long deep dive in sub 10C water. My choice of rechargeables and cheap batteries obviously doesn't help in this respect.

Unfotunately very few people can get their heads around the fact that software development tends to cost more than engineering and manufacturing the hardware these days. The traditional Aladin and Sunnto scheme is to make the same computer, disable some features in software and call it a different model. When you need the additional features you are forced to buy a new computer. Personally I view the VRs PIN number upgrade scheme as a benefit. You pay for the software features you need/want as an when you need/want them. The VPMB upgrade is expensive if you have an old model, but then again virtually all the electronics needs replacing to accomodate it. I tend to think those that complain about the PIN scheme are the same types that think they have a God given right to pirate software.

I have recently been trialling a VR2 for some development work. The plastic display cover is not quite so good as the mineral glass of the VR3 but other than that it is every bit as easy to use and a lot more comfortable to wear. It's a shame that so many people discount it. Trimix diving is a suitably expensive passtime that I would not base a computer purchase choice on the basis that you might do it in the future. A VR2 does everything a VR3 does except Trimix but at a price similar to the Suunto's. I guess the VR2 looks a little odd but after using one I will not hold that against it. It's a bit of a gem really.

HTH

[Chris Cherrington]

Just to confuse you a little more there is another one to look at:

http://www.diveriteexpress.com/computers/nitekhe.shtml

The reports I have seen suggest its not a bad unit. Certainly worth a look if the VR3 is not to your liking.

FWIW we use gauge mode for trimix diving and depending on how many mix dives you do a year you might find that adequate. The price difference between the VR3 and the Vytec is enough for a new twinset!!

Chris

[Darren27]

I was looking at the Delta P website a couple of weeks ago and there is a mention of the VR2 being upgraded to Normoxic Trimix, the following is cut and pasted from their website.



Announcement: 14th November 2005

New Versions of the VR2

In response to a number of requests from divers we are pleased to announce two new versions of the VR2 which will permit owners, both open circuit and closed circuit divers to use the computer with helium based gas mixtures containing a MINIMUM of 20% oxygen and a MAXIMUM of 40% helium..

We are calling these Normoxic Trimix upgrades.

Ask your VR Computer dealer for product code B3 if you want to buy the Open Circuit Nitrox and Normoxic Trimix VR2.

Ask your VR Computer dealer for product code B4 if you want to buy the Open and Closed Circuit Nitrox and Normoxic Trimix VR2.

If you are currently the proud owner of a Nitrox-only VR2 you can upgrade your computer to Normoxic Trimix level by returning it to us either directly or via your dealer. This is not a PIN upgrade. The VR2 does need to come back to Delta P Headquarters to be reprogrammed.

Consult your dealer for pricing information.

[Bob K]

Just thought I would add in some of my experiences with the VR3. I happen to think its a brilliant piece of kit, but it does have a few foibles and a fairly steep learning curve. You cannot just strap it on and go !

If I had to single out one feature, that has not been mentioned so far, its the backlight. It knocks the socks of a Vyper, and its 'really' comforting to be able to just look at when you are on one of those 'dark' dive sites,
without have to press any buttons.

My buddy & I were recommended to go down the VR3 route after we had completed our Normoxic trimix course.
Up to that point I was using a Vyper in gauge mode, and runtime tables.

I was given a quick run through by our trimix instructor on how to use it. Which was great, but by the next day I had forgotten it all.

As always its a case of RTFM, and asking other owners. I was surprised at how many people that I met on charter boats did not have a clue how to use them. They appeared to be using them as some kind of 'medallion' !!!

IMHO gas switching is not well explained in the manual. The best way to learn is to use the simulator function repeatedly before you go diving. Then do some shallow dives, and do dummy gas switches until you can do it blindfold.

Problems that I have had or seen:-

1) Would not go into dive mode - because some 'idiot' had put a sticker with his name on the back, which just happended to cover a 'small' hole (leading to the pressure transducer) :-(

2) Buttons popping out / stroke breaking !

3) Pressing buttons before a dive having no effect - fixed by 'washing' in a sink !

4) Losing all your settings / history when changing battery - because I did not turn it on first.


I have just qualified with a CCR, so will have to fork out for an upgrade, but I believe its worth it :-)

[Chris Cherrington]

I was looking at the Delta P website a couple of weeks ago and there is a mention of the VR2 being upgraded to Normoxic Trimix, the following is cut and pasted from their website.


Thanks for the heads up will check it out.

Nice bike!

Chris

[Paul Morris]

Thanks for the advice. It looks like I'm going to go down the VR3 route. Hopefully test diving one next weekend. I've had a good play with the simulator on their website, and didn't find it too bad, though I'm pretty computer literate. I can understand its easy to get lost when setting up gases and switching them on/off.

For now I'm going to go for the mono screen & just OC Nitrox for now, to spread/hide the cost! ;-)

The VR2 with Normoxic was very tempting, but I was afraid of getting sold into a dead end if I venture into full trimix.

Cheers,
Paul.

[Adrian Kelland]

Thanks for the advice. It looks like I'm going to go down the VR3 route. Hopefully test diving one next weekend. I've had a good play with the simulator on their website, and didn't find it too bad, though I'm pretty computer literate. I can understand its easy to get lost when setting up gases and switching them on/off.

For now I'm going to go for the mono screen & just OC Nitrox for now, to spread/hide the cost! ;-)

The VR2 with Normoxic was very tempting, but I was afraid of getting sold into a dead end if I venture into full trimix.

Cheers,
Paul.
You must have a keyboard with 2 keys then :)

[Paul Morris]

You must have a keyboard with 2 keys then :)
Yep, although I'm in the market for a new z & x now. :p It's been a bit like playing Daley Thompsons on the keyboard the last few days.

Although the simulator didn't have drills for pinging buttons round the room and sticky buttons :p Though I'm told thats no longer a problem. :rolleyes:

[Chris Cherrington]

..

The VR2 with Normoxic was very tempting, but I was afraid of getting sold into a dead end if I venture into full trimix.

...

Well that would take a few years and by then there should be a healthy secondhand market.

I'm eyeing up the normoxic. At 530 quid it looks like a good deal to me..

Chris

[Darren27]

At the risk of sounding like a complete numpty,

What is the depth limits for Normoxic trimix, specificaly with respect to the mix limits of the VR2?

Cheers

Darren

[Chris Cherrington]

At the risk of sounding like a complete numpty,

What is the depth limits for Normoxic trimix, specificaly with respect to the mix limits of the VR2?

Cheers

Darren

Generally agreed at 60m (based on PPO2 at an FO2 of 21%). That is the limit for most courses.

The VR2 IIRC can cope with an higher PPO2 so the theoretic depth is greater although you would be "mad" to do it....

Chris