No Mask in public pools & Kids in branches

[scott.l.]

Hi all,
I have my own thoughts but wondered the general opinion about the following...

I have a 4 year old son who has taken like a duck to water. Naturally I wanted to let him see the underwater world asap, so bought him a mask and snorkel set and proceeded to the local pool. To my surprise we were not allowed to use the mask? When I asked why they said it covered his nose?!
Since he spends 90% of the time underwater with a pair of goggles I could not see the logic. As it turns out all the local pools in the area will not allow childeren or adults in with a mask on during public times.
I have had to resort to finding a Scuba training session, to allow him to learn to snorkel, this in turn became a hot topic as not all branches in my area agreed with teaching kids to snorkel along side scuba training as they were a distraction.

Luckily I have found a comercial PADI shop who is willing to let me use their pool to teach him snorkelling along side normal scuba training ,and I am happy to pay the entrance fee to do this.

I had hours of fun as a child with a mask on in a pool diving for stuff before all this HSE issues ,and it created my interest for diving. My first ever dive was age 11 and diving has been a major part of my life.

Now over to you for comments....

[MSutcliffe]

When I asked why they said it covered his nose?!

Perahps they are concerned that it will keep the bogeys in, thus ensuring the pool stays clean?

utterly ridiculous. Can't see any sense in it.

Can understand that they may not permit fins, but banning masks!!! Please.

[NJT]

I have the situation were during club use I can swim in the pool with a snorkel. If I take the same snorkel to the same pool for a public session I am not allowed to use it ! All I got when asking for an explianation was public liability insurance. I use swimming goggles and a nose clip which allows me to swim much flatter meaning I keep my back straight.

Regards
Nick

[judithbodkin]

You will find it's the same in most pools. The only time that we are allowed
to use a mask, snorkel with fins when our club hires the pool & diving pit.

Even then they can be slightly funny "you have got tempered glass in your mask?"

But there again it's a safety facter.

[scott.l.]

I hear kids are not allowed to play conkers anymore without safety glasses and the other day we were told that they now sell crash helmets for kids learning to walk, incase they bump there heads.................

The world has gone mad!!!!

[Paul Beal]

It was the same when I worked as a lifeguard. I was a diver at the time and knew some of the people bringing their snorkel kit or getting their kids into it. I had to tell them they could not bring masks, fins or snorkels or any combination thereof in. The official line from the pool was that there was no glass allowed in the pool area full stop and that fins can injure other people. Even with tempered glass it would be an absolute nightmare to ensure no glass was left in the pool if there was an accident. I was never sure on the reasons for not having snorkels.

Not a popular rule I know and even worse for a diving lifeguard to try and enforce. I guess pools have to be very careful about health and safety these days.

Paul

[Badders (Dave)]

How do
The world hasn't gone mad just the idiots in charge of it! :(
All probably on fat OTT salaries, thinking of ways to "improve" life and when they think of the new improvement usually with a thread of common sense behind it, it is ENFORCED on you or I exactly how they thought it up, no discussion, no compromise and based on biased facts, or a knee jerk reaction to some over sensationalised politically motivated (not party politics) story about a person who lost their whole leg or something, because of a snorkel!!
I mean perhaps no glass by a swimming pool is a good thing, but usually face masks for kids anyway are made of polycarbonate!
If your local baths are anything like some in my area, these people should perhaps focus on the things that spoil your swimming experience like: showers not working, lack of general cleanliness and hygiene particularly around the loos, decor, plaster hanging off or too many people swimming because of a lack of pools ,to mention some. Instead of focusing on something that in all fairness enhances your watery experience.
mmm:D

[Adrian Kelland]

How do
The world hasn't gone mad just the idiots in charge of it! :(
All probably on fat OTT salaries, thinking of ways to "improve" life and when they think of the new improvement usually with a thread of common sense behind it, it is ENFORCED on you or I exactly how they thought it up, no discussion, no compromise and based on biased facts, or a knee jerk reaction to some over sensationalised politically motivated (not party politics) story about a person who lost their whole leg or something, because of a snorkel!!
I mean perhaps no glass by a swimming pool is a good thing, but usually face masks for kids anyway are made of polycarbonate!
If your local baths are anything like some in my area, these people should perhaps focus on the things that spoil your swimming experience like: showers not working, lack of general cleanliness and hygiene particularly around the loos, decor, plaster hanging off or too many people swimming because of a lack of pools ,to mention some. Instead of focusing on something that in all fairness enhances your watery experience.
mmm:D

Sounds all too familiar. :(

Do you really want to wear a mask in the pool? There are times when I would rather not see what is floating around. :(

Adrian

[tony J]

How do
The world hasn't gone mad just the idiots in charge of it! :(

I don't think the world hasn't changed. 20 years ago I was told I could not wear a mask in a pool. What has changed is that information is now more quickly available.

Who knows why, someone somewhere thought it was a bad idea

ie http://www.blackburn.gov.uk/server.php?show=ConWebDoc.16979

says 'due to H&S implications' without suggesting what the implications are.

Another council says why they allow goggles but not masks..

"We would have to clear the pool, drain it and then clean it, which would inconvenience a lot of people. Goggles are allowed in the pool because if they break the pieces would be smaller. We have no signs up indicating which items are banned because we would rather educate people ourselves if we see them taking something into the pool, which is not allowed. We're not planning to put signs up, but it is something we may look into."

I think someone has come up with a rule then has to justify it later.

I wear a 'Seal aquasphere mask' when swimming, it is about the same size as my diving mask, but doesn't enclose the nose - so is allowed.

Tony

[Badders (Dave)]

Sounds all too familiar. :(

Do you really want to wear a mask in the pool? There are times when I would rather not see what is floating around. :(

Adrian

Yuk! here is an idea. A new invention. "The ROse TinTed nonE Nasel enclosing face mask" R.O.T.T.E.N!


I think someone has come up with a rule then has to justify it later.

Tony


Great quote. In fact I've seen quite a few great quotes on this forum during my first few weeks.
I think I'll start a thread called "Great Quotes"
If thats allowed? A place for us all to put some of the great quotes from members of this web site for posterety.:D

Dave

[Cornholio]

I don't think the world hasn't changed. 20 years ago I was told I could not wear a mask in a pool.
Me too. I was a child in the 1970s and we were not allowed mask, fins or snorkels in any of the local pools. To be honest, I never knew that there were pools where they were allowed.


I wear a 'Seal aquasphere mask' when swimming, it is about the same size as my diving mask, but doesn't enclose the nose - so is allowed.
I have one of those. At first I expected the lifeguards to question me about it, but they never have done. Funny old world...

[scott.l.]

I wear a 'Seal aquasphere mask' when swimming, it is about the same size as my diving mask, but doesn't enclose the nose - so is allowed.

Tony

So if this magically gets smashed and breaks into tiny pieces then thats ok, but a 'full' diving mask with the extra nose section is very dangerous?
Im sorry but the only difference I can see is the nose section and the argument about pieces of mask in a pool does not qualify if they allow the 'Aquasphere mask'?
If the HSE worry is bits of mask in the pool then why do they allow Scuba training in the same pool but at different times?
As I say.. the world has gone mad and I find it sad that I have to find it so difficult to encourage my son to do something that he loves, just because someone, somewhere thinks it is dangerous!
My son loves to climb trees, go sledging, skiing and ride his bike as well as snorkel in a pool. I just hope he can continue to be a kid and not shut behind doors wrapped in cotten wool, because of HSE!

I work offshore and have done it for several years.... We now have instructions beside the toaster , incase someone doesnt know how to use it and hurts himself.

What has the world come to???!!!

[Ben Panter]

Probably, as mentioned earlier in this thread, it's down to trying to stop glass lenses. The logic would go, "Goggles tend to be plastic. Masks tend to be glass" (tempered or otherwise). Rather than inspect every single item that comes into a pool, the lifeguards are trained to look for things that are obvious. Hence the generalisation. I'd suggest that Tony's mask looks sufficiently like a pair of goggles that it doesn't get noticed - indeed, the lenses are made of Plexisol, a polymer, hence are recognised as 'safe'.

Get a plastic mask, take it to the lifeguard and pool management, explain what it is. Who knows - you might get lucky.

Ben

[Scary Monster]

I work as a lifeguard in the same pool our club use, when I trained as a lifeguard we were told fins weren't allowed because of the injury they could cause others if they swim into them, and masks and snorkels weren't allowed because of the resuscitation and rescue implications. Apparently they are allowed in the snorkelling/scuba sessions as the instructors for those are specially trained to work round these obstacles...

It made no sense at the time but there we go.

[Carol]

Hi,
Either some activity is inherently dangerous or it is not! :confused:
Is using M F S in a pool inherently dangerous?
They dont think so in New Zealand where I taught my grandchildren to snorkel!
(BTW did you hear? In Sydney there are 80 (yes 80) 50m pools.
We in Scotland have, I think, just the one in Edinburgh!)
I *could* understand fins being dangerous since they could hit someone but NOT mask and snorkel.
I think that BSAC should take this up with the HSE.
But then, if kids could use the stuff in pools they might not join......
Cheers,
Carol

[Paul Morris]

Apparently they are allowed in the snorkelling/scuba sessions as the instructors for those are specially trained to work round these obstacles...

Hi Scary. Welcome! :)

Hmm. Special training to work around the obstacles of wearing a mask. Nope can't remember that one from the IFC :rolleyes:

How about taking the mask off, is that the bit that requires the special training - I suppose you might pull someones hair if you didn't know what you were doing :p

Oh... p-lease.:D

[tony J]

Hi,
Either some activity is inherently dangerous or it is not! :confused:
Carol
I'm not sure that society (or even I ) agrees

We have now introduced the work Risk...

What has a low risk with person a in situation b may be a high risk with person c in situation d.

We protect small children from boiling pans of water, open fires etc, things which I do not consider 'dangerous' to me.

An easy solution for those taking decisions (and the responsibility) is to ban it for every one.

The other way this happens is to require unreasonable insurance (My council requires me to have 10 million pounds 3rd party insurance to use the local playing field. Ok, so I want to do a hot air balloon launch in it - but every where else requires a 10th of that...)

Tony

[Geordie_cy]

I can understand that fins may be banned as they could injure someone without the snorkeller being aware (they are quite long and unwieldy)

However, risk management is the application of safeguards taking into account the severity of a situation and it's likelihood. Surely they could reduce the likelihood, by running BSAC/PADI/NAUI basic snorkelling, and only allowing those with a pass in the pool with mask and snorkel.

[ChrisA]

As we are all sensible people on here the trained user policy might work , but you try telling some irate parent on a sunny sunday afternoon that his pride and joy hasn't got a pass so can't use mask, fins, gavin etc, I used to work in a pool and have had stand up rows because parents thought that just because their non swimming kids had armbands on they could let them drift off into 2mts of water, the average joe public needs to be saved from themselves most times.

[Keith Lawrence]

...the average joe public needs to be saved from themselves most times.The real problem Chris is that the average sensible person is not given the choice! Jobsworths make rules because of a minority and to protect their own backsides rather than manage the situation, it's that which annoys most people because the nanny state approach infringes on the rights and choice of the majority.

Keith L

[Dave]

(BTW did you hear? In Sydney there are 80 (yes 80) 50m pools.
We in Scotland have, I think, just the one in Edinburgh!)


There are about 7 50m pools in Sydney vs 22 in the whole of the UK.

Dave

[Cornholio]

Speaking of risk management, did any one hear the government spokesperson on the radio this morning?

The hot water in your house is a scalding risk. Therefore, they want all new homes (indeed, all new bathrooms if they get their way) to be fitted with thermostatic valves. That way, the water can be kept no higher than 48'c and the world will be a much happier place!?!

Aaaaahhhhh!!!!:eek:

[John Williams]

Speaking of risk management, did any one hear the government spokesperson on the radio this morning?

The hot water in your house is a scalding risk. Therefore, they want all new homes (indeed, all new bathrooms if they get their way) to be fitted with thermostatic valves. That way, the water can be kept at or lower than 48'c and the world will be a much happier place!?!

Aaaaahhhhh!!!!:eek:

My central heating/water heater is set to about that level anyway.

And my kids still complain about the water being too hot!

What's the problem? No-one wants higher heating bills...just to keep a reservoir of water at boiling point! (that then needs diluting with water from the cold tap!)

...and no-one wants water too hot to wash their hands in (except to make a cup of tea/coffee....and I do that from the kettle - not the tap!)

Let's not just resist sensible change because it is a restriction on a stupidity that we would not want anyway!

However ...banning masks in pools - that is a stupidity I would wish to resist!

it's all in the syntax!

see...all tax is a syn (sp):p

QED

John

[Dave]

Let's not just resist sensible change because it is a restriction on a stupidity that we would not want anyway!

However ...banning masks in pools - that is a stupidity I would wish to resist!


John

So, what you are saying, is that it's ok to set rules for some people where you don't care , but that there shouldnt be rules where it affects you?

There is reasoned logic for banning glass in the pool during normal public swimming.

Seems to me that on one hand people whine about safety rules being in place , but would be the first to sue if they could see compensation dollars.

if people were not suing where unsafe practices lead to accidents, then there would be not companies needing to protect against it.

Dave

[shaunzxr]

I'm off to the Red Sea tomorrow, would have been nice to take my children
(6 & 9 years old) to the local pool to practice snorkeling. Got to teach them there in the pool and hopefully get them in the sea to see Nemo before the end of the holiday.
Before anyone say's anything about I should not teach them it should be done through BSAC. You shouldn’t do this you shouldn’t do that. It's you people that cause rules like not being able to wear a mask in a pool. ( rant over)

[John Williams]

So, what you are saying, is that it's ok to set rules for some people where you don't care , but that there shouldnt be rules where it affects you?

There is reasoned logic for banning glass in the pool during normal public swimming.

Seems to me that on one hand people whine about safety rules being in place , but would be the first to sue if they could see compensation dollars.

if people were not suing where unsafe practices lead to accidents, then there would be not companies needing to protect against it.

Dave

Not at all!
Banning tempered glass masks designed for swimming in water is stupid!
They know that...because they allow it when they know they will not get away with banning it!

The idea that lifeguards need training to remove a mask is laughable!
(do they need extra training to remove nose clips too? They allow those!)

That plastic goggles, or tempered glass swimming masks are allowed in public sessions and diving masks are not is risible.
There is no additional glass risk...just a soft rubber/silicone nose pocket!

So...the "reasoned logic" you refer to fails at every hurdle!

However ...there is absolutley no reason to have dangerously hot water coming from household taps (unless you can enlighten me?)


..and I care about people in BOTH situations!


HTH

John

[John Williams]

I'm off to the Red Sea tomorrow, would have been nice to take my children
(6 & 9 years old) to the local pool to practice snorkeling. Got to teach them there in the pool and hopefully get them in the sea to see Nemo before the end of the holiday.
Before anyone say's anything about I should not teach them it should be done through BSAC. You shouldn’t do this you shouldn’t do that. It's you people that cause rules like not being able to wear a mask in a pool. ( rant over)

You can do anything you like...as long as no-one has banned it!:rolleyes:

However - BSAC snorkel training might be a better way to go than doing it yourself:) ;)

The important thing is to get your kids into the water and having fun ...safely!

Let's hope that they see Nemo and his Mum and all his little brothers and sisters
(cos in real life, as everybody knows, that nasty barracuda from the film was frightened away by a Daddy Diver - but not the mean one (P. Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney) who steals Nemo away from his Daddy at the drop-off later in the film...he was a PADI diver and a DENTIST!)

(My girls are 9 and 3! - and they need to have their prejudices and hang-ups imprinted early!)

John

[Dave]

Not at all!
Banning tempered glass masks designed for swimming in water is stupid!
They know that...because they allow it when they know they will not get away with banning it!

The idea that lifeguards need training to remove a mask is laughable!
(do they need extra training to remove nose clips too? They allow those!)

That plastic goggles, or tempered glass swimming masks are allowed in public sessions and diving masks are not is risible.
There is no additional glass risk...just a soft rubber/silicone nose pocket!

So...the "reasoned logic" you refer to fails at every hurdle!

However ...there is absolutley no reason to have dangerously hot water coming from household taps (unless you can enlighten me?)


..and I care about people in BOTH situations!


HTH

John


I don't class 48C as particularly hot and I like hot showers

Also, if a person sets the temperature for themselves, they are not putting members of the general public at any risk

Banning glass during public sessions as an absolute is a lot more simple to enforce rather than creating lots of exceptions. During a private hire, the users of the pool are all part of that private hire and the company does not have the same liability risk as they would if someone took some glass into a pool during a public session

Fortunately my apartment block here in sunny Oz has a 20m private swimming pool and so the issue is moot :)

Dave

[Finless]

I can see it in my "mind's eye" - HSE and the Spanish lot have joined forces! It seems like the world has been taken over by orcs and goblins only they are not marching on Helms Deep but surreptitiously marching on common sense and ..........

I have to say the "mask in the pool thing" was around when I was a kid and everything was still black & white.

I despair over today's Nanny State mentality. On the radio today I heard someone waffling on about the need for thermostatically controlled baths because about 600 people a year scald themselves - FFS!!!! 600 out of 55ish million in the UK so all new baths should have .........

Oh God, I don't think I can take anymore.

What next, thermostatically controlled Y fronts so we don't get cold willies? No hot women in case we get willy burn .........

Sorry, knob gags ARE a British tradition!

[John Williams]

I don't class 48C as particularly hot and I like hot showers

Also, if a person sets the temperature for themselves, they are not putting members of the general public at any risk

Banning glass during public sessions as an absolute is a lot more simple to enforce rather than creating lots of exceptions. During a private hire, the users of the pool are all part of that private hire and the company does not have the same liability risk as they would if someone took some glass into a pool during a public session

Fortunately my apartment block here in sunny Oz has a 20m private swimming pool and so the issue is moot :)

Dave

OK...so now we are arguing about the temp.:rolleyes:

I can't remember what mine is set at...it might be a shade over 50*C?

However... having a thermostat...and having it set at 48*C as a start point seems reasonable.

if you wish to alter it in your own home...then you should be allowed to do so.

But ...until you move in - it's NOT your home...and the builders take some responsibility for leaving it "safe" when you move in.

As to glass in the pool...you make my point remarkably well!
if glass is to be banned - then it should be banned!
You cannot say that a diving mask - with tempered glass and a nose pocket - is not acceptable and then go on to say that a non-tempered glass swimming mask without a nose pocket IS aceptable.

"Simplifying" stuff without understanding it is irresponsible. Those that make rules for swimming pools (and anywhere else) should seek advice from those who know before making summary decisions.

John

[Vic]

What's the problem? No-one wants higher heating bills...just to keep a reservoir of water at boiling point!

Those of us with Combi boilers do nothing of the sort.

(that then needs diluting with water from the cold tap!)

That depends on what you're doing with it. Now why should I have my use limited by what you want to do?

Let's not just resist sensible change because it is a restriction on a stupidity that we would not want anyway!

Let's not. But at the same time, let's not introduce stupid rules just because we've erroneously deemed ourselves representative of all mankind...

However ...banning masks in pools - that is a stupidity I would wish to resist!

...And one I wouldn't.

Tempered glass in a pool is no problem - but there is lots of glass about that isn't tempered. Ever tried to find bits of broken glass underwater? It's all but invisible.

So we have two possible situations :-

- Permit tempered glass and ban everything else
- Ban all glass.

The first requires extreme vigilance on the part of those running the pool - in short, it's not going to happen. So banning glass - whilst regrettable - is the only viable solution for public sessions.

Private sessions are slightly different - partly because there are generally fewer people involved, and partly because you can make more exacting requirements of those people. So we could permit tempered glass during private sessions, whilst keeping the ban during public sessions.

Which is what I've seen whenever I've been to a public pool.

Vic.

[garethwoodruff]

Of course there is the other way of looking at it......

If I go for a swim, do I really want a mask, fins and snorkel clad lad, popping up everywhere..... specifically if he knows how to use the gear properly, disapearing and reapearing at will. A fin in the chest can be a bit painful as well (I've watched it happen to a rather plump middle aged woman, who was somewhat anoyed with a 24 year old lad!).

Mind you if they ban then for consideration for other users, they should say so.

[Finless]

Of course there is the other way of looking at it......

If I go for a swim, do I really want a mask, fins and snorkel clad lad, popping up everywhere..... specifically if he knows how to use the gear properly, disapearing and reapearing at will. A fin in the chest can be a bit painful as well (I've watched it happen to a rather plump middle aged woman, who was somewhat anoyed with a 24 year old lad!).

Mind you if they ban then for consideration for other users, they should say so.

Oh my ..... a snorkel in the "nethers" ........ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_17_3.gif

[Ant Slegg]

Does anyone know of a manufacturer of all plastic masks? It's got to have been tried and I would have guessed that cheaper children's masks would be more likely to try plastic over tempered glass.

I'm not saying this will get you past the "jobsworth" at your local pool but it might at least provide some entertainment watching them struggle to come up with a new reason to ban a mask.

Ant S

[MattS]

On the radio today I heard someone waffling on about the need for thermostatically controlled baths because about 600 people a year scald themselves...Some people drown in the bath as well. They are clearly and inherently unsafe devices, obviously they need to be banned. It's the only logical solution. I'm on a roll here...if we were not born in the first place, no one would have accidents. Ban childbirth, it's the only sensible answer!!!

:D

[Gareth]

Once upon a time the world ran on the principle of natural selection.

If you did something stupid, you either:
a/ Applied thought & inteligence & didn't do it or minimised the risk
b/ learnt not to do it again
c/ suffered until you couldn't do it again (death or injury)

Now the world is run by idiots & lawyers (maybe thats the same thing)

Now the worlds is run on the basis of the stupidest individual. Doing something stupid is now always someone elses fault. No one is personnally responsible for anything. Even if you tell someone not to do something & they do it & get injured it's still your fault because you didn't stop them, & if you do you've breached their human rights - bloody lawyers!!!

I'll stop my rant now

Gareth

[Finless]

Some people drown in the bath as well. They are clearly and inherently unsafe devices, obviously they need to be banned. It's the only logical solution. I'm on a roll here...if we were not born in the first place, no one would have accidents. Ban childbirth, it's the only sensible answer!!!

:D


Shhhhhhh!!!! FFS, there are people out there that will take this seriously and, just because they are not divers, does not mean they won't be looking on here for things to regulate or ban!!!!

:confused:

[Finless]

Once upon a time the world ran on the principle of natural selection.

If you did something stupid, you either:
a/ Applied thought & inteligence & didn't do it or minimised the risk
b/ learnt not to do it again
c/ suffered until you couldn't do it again (death or injury)

Now the world is run by idiots & lawyers (maybe thats the same thing)

Now the worlds is run on the basis of the stupidest individual. Doing something stupid is now always someone elses fault. No one is personnally responsible for anything. Even if you tell someone not to do something & they do it & get injured it's still your fault because you didn't stop them, & if you do you've breached their human rights - bloody lawyers!!!

I'll stop my rant now

Gareth

Rant on!, good sir. You'll get my vote in the election! :)

[verybadloser]

You are allowed to use masks in public swimming pools, if you get permission from the manager. This is along with cameras and other things (i've not read the whole thread this might already have been said).

Several masks have smashed in pools and it's a major pain getting the glass out. This would be a major annoyance if it happened during normal hours, and alot less of one if it happened during a private pool session, say a snorkel club?

[Adrian Kelland]

You are allowed to use masks in public swimming pools, if you get permission from the manager. This is along with cameras and other things (i've not read the whole thread this might already have been said).

Several masks have smashed in pools and it's a major pain getting the glass out. This would be a major annoyance if it happened during normal hours, and alot less of one if it happened during a private pool session, say a snorkel club?
A very general statement, and one I would expect to be right or wrong depending on the conditions applied by the management or event their clients if they are running the pool on behalf of the local authority.

We have had a manager want us to stop reg. dust cap water clearing with cylinders because of the noise. We are the only ones using the pool at the time.

Ah for the days when petting was frowned upon :)

[Alan Taylor]

Hi all,
I have my own thoughts but wondered the general opinion about the following...

I have a 4 year old son who has taken like a duck to water. Naturally I wanted to let him see the underwater world asap, so bought him a mask and snorkel set and proceeded to the local pool. To my surprise we were not allowed to use the mask? When I asked why they said it covered his nose?!
Since he spends 90% of the time underwater with a pair of goggles I could not see the logic. As it turns out all the local pools in the area will not allow childeren or adults in with a mask on during public times.
I have had to resort to finding a Scuba training session, to allow him to learn to snorkel, this in turn became a hot topic as not all branches in my area agreed with teaching kids to snorkel along side scuba training as they were a distraction.

Luckily I have found a comercial PADI shop who is willing to let me use their pool to teach him snorkelling along side normal scuba training ,and I am happy to pay the entrance fee to do this.

I had hours of fun as a child with a mask on in a pool diving for stuff before all this HSE issues ,and it created my interest for diving. My first ever dive was age 11 and diving has been a major part of my life.

Now over to you for comments....

The part of this little chat that caught my eye. Is not about the use of basic kit in public swimming sessions but the fact you where not made welcome in some branches and you had to resort to using a commercial shop to help you out. Surely there was at least one branch of BSAC up there or indeed SSAC that could have made you both welcome. Of course they do have a right to say no. Is it your wish that just your 4 year old wants to splash about now or are you willing to help a branch actively promote junior snorkelling, you know the full monty, lectures bath sessions etc.as a prelude to full BSAC/SSAC diving traning and membership. Have a look at Tameside's club as an idea of what can be done.

Get a life Get a Tube.:)

[Daniology]

That's such a shame. Snorkelling is a great way to gain water confidence. My old dive club was a family orientated club. The pool let them hire both the baby and the main pool. This meant that diving dads/mums could take their small children with them on a pool night and let them splash about with masks and snorkels even rubber ducks, whatever really. As long as the parent was a member of the club and looked after the child they didn't mind. Still don't as far as I know.

[John Williams]

The part of this little chat that caught my eye. Is not about the use of basic kit in public swimming sessions but the fact you where not made welcome in some branches and you had to resort to using a commercial shop to help you out. Surely there was at least one branch of BSAC up there or indeed SSAC that could have made you both welcome. Of course they do have a right to say no. Is it your wish that just your 4 year old wants to splash about now or are you willing to help a branch actively promote junior snorkelling, you know the full monty, lectures bath sessions etc.as a prelude to full BSAC/SSAC diving traning and membership. Have a look at Tameside's club as an idea of what can be done.

Get a life Get a Tube.:)

Praps the key thing is "4-year-old"?

BSAC Snorkelling clubs are not open to children of that age!

(I was going to say that it would have been nice to welcome someone in and give them a corner of the pool to play in...but I guess insurance and liability would preculde that in today's world)

HoHum!

What do snorkelling clubs do with younger siblings? (you know ... snorkellers-in-waiting)

My 9-year-old has asked to switch Brownie Packs in order to free up Mondays to attend the local snorkelling club...but I'll need to take the 3-year-old along too!
(I will be providing 1 new member and two new Snorkelling Instructors into the deal too!)

John

[scott.l.]

Im not sure about 'Snorkelling Clubs' but the 'entry' Snorkelling course run by BSAC does not have any age limit attached as far as I know.

I was met by mixed opinion so hence I started this thread to find an overall picture.
Some peoples idea was that childeren in a pool along side Scuba training was a big distraction to those undergoing the dive training.
Also, that since kids were generally good in the water, then if any dive student was struggling (say for example duck diving with MFS on) and they spotted a child swimming effortless underwater with MFS and waving to them that this would upset the adults confidence.
I can understand the worry of kids running wild in a pool during Scuba training, but the child is the responsibility of the instructor/parent so this should not be an issue.
I have seen a PADI school have at least 10 kids in the water in the shallow end while scuba training was conducted at the deeper points and it all seemed to work well.

Where I am situated I have very limited choice to BSAC clubs, so the views are from a small minority.

One club close to me does not have a pool as they cannot justify the cost due to not enough trainees. Surely a combined Snorkel/Scuba night would be beneficial?

I started this thread to get an overall view of peoples ideas as I wasn't sure if I was just being unjustified in my views.

Thanks for all your input.

Yes, im keen to get involved..... Have Snorkel Instructor ticket.... need pool....!!:)

[scott.l.]

From BSAC web site--

BSAC Snorkel Diver Grades
Basic Snorkel Diver
This is an introductory course, available to anyone who is confident in the water and capable of swimming. It will train them in the use of basic snorkelling equipment of mask, fins and snorkel in a pool environment. No age limit is imposed but younger students should be confident in the water. Membership of the BSAC is mandatory to embark on this training course.

[Ben Panter]

...but unfortunately I think that BSAC membership does have an age restriction?

Ben

[scott.l.]

Does it? For a snorkel member? Would be keen to know what age so we can clarify this? Maybe that should be stated on the web site then?

[Adrian Kelland]

http://www.bsac.org/services/membership0502.htm

Youth snorkelling member is 8 years and over.

[scott.l.]

yep just found it-

Youth Snorkel/Snorkel Member - available to any individual aged 8 years or over £14.00 Does not include BSAC magazine or Club voting powers. Snorkel Members are not able to scuba dive with a Branch.

''Sigh''.............. another thing to contend with.......

BSAC should really note this on their Snorkelling page so not to cause confusion.

[Alan Taylor]

What do snorkelling clubs do with younger siblings? (you know ... snorkellers-in-waiting)

My 9-year-old has asked to switch Brownie Packs in order to free up Mondays to attend the local snorkelling club...but I'll need to take the 3-year-old along too!
(I will be providing 1 new member and two new Snorkelling Instructors into the deal too!)

John[/QUOTE]

Could try buddy bands to secure the 3 to the 9!:D

[Badders (Dave)]

I spoke to a friend of mine about no face masks etc. He is the HSE manager in a large city council, He has also been involved in locating dive clubs in pools, he's a dive leader and has been a BSAC member for well over 20 years, so I asked him if he new anything about this topic. The reply he gave me was quite a surprise. He told me that the glass in face masks was not the issue, in fact face masks are made of tempered glass and are complaint with HSE requirement's. The rule here is believed to be from a very old bylaw or act of parliament based on Victorian values to protect "modesty" which includes cameras amongst other things during "public bathing sessions". Finns and snorkels are just on a list of stuff along side dinghies and other "toys" prohibited at a local level at certain times. I'll find out what this law is called and post my findings
Badders

[John Williams]

I spoke to a friend of mine about no face masks etc. He is the HSE manager in a large city council, He has also been involved in locating dive clubs in pools, he's a dive leader and has been a BSAC member for well over 20 years, so I asked him if he new anything about this topic. The reply he gave me was quite a surprise. He told me that the glass in face masks was not the issue, in fact face masks are made of tempered glass and are complaint with HSE requirement's. The rule here is believed to be from a very old bylaw or act of parliament based on Victorian values to protect "modesty" which includes cameras amongst other things during "public bathing sessions". Finns and snorkels are just on a list of stuff along side dinghies and other "toys" prohibited at a local level at certain times. I'll find out what this law is called and post my findings
Badders


Just stupid enough to be true....but I did check the date you posted before responding!

Sounds like a plausible explanation....like the one that says all Hackney Carriages within the city walls of London must carry a bale of hay! (from when they used to have horses instead of horsepower!)

John

[Badders (Dave)]

It looks like the bit of legislation is found somewhere in the public health act 1936 sec 221, 222, 223 & 227. I had a look but it all got a bit boring so I gave up. Suffice to say it's still a silly rule wherever it came from. Just out of interest, you can still be put in gaol for not practicing archery on a Sunday, I've been led to believe that it is still lawful to shoot a welsh person found in Chester at certain times!! and we still have the death sentence for starting a fire in a naval dock yard, probably all urban myths but nothing would surprise me.

Badders

[Daniology]

It looks like the bit of legislation is found somewhere in the public health act 1936 sec 221, 222, 223 & 227. I had a look but it all got a bit boring so I gave up. Suffice to say it's still a silly rule wherever it came from. Just out of interest, you can still be put in gaol for not practicing archery on a Sunday, I've been led to believe that it is still lawful to shoot a welsh person found in Chester at certain times!! and we still have the death sentence for starting a fire in a naval dock yard, probably all urban myths but nothing would surprise me.

Badders

I thought it was you can shoot a welsh person inside cardiff castle with a bow and arrow if you're standing on the castle wall. Mind you the chance of finding a welsh person inside the castle is probably quite small think its mostly full of tourists. Another silly one not sure if its true is you can be done for treason for sticking a stamp on a letter upside down.

Ah the wonder of google.


http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/international/united-kingdom/


I particularly like:

It is illegal for a lady to eat chocolates on a public conveyance.

[Paul Renucci]

It all started here:
If I remember correctly - it was some 35 years ago when I was a competitionn swimmer for my school and county.

A new type of snorkle was introduce!

Do you remember the type that had a floating ball which stopped the water entering the snorkle? It caused several deaths by Asphyxiation, that led to bad press and calls to ban it, and that, I believe, led to the whole discussion on pool safety and consequent banning of gear except for plastic swimming goggles.

[Jon H]

Basically in my view the pool is saying you can’t take the mask in because you can't breath when you come up. Its called a mouth. O no I cant breath underwater. I would like to see were they are coming from.

When i went on holiday i forgot my swimming goggles. And i hate swimming without them. SO went to the local shop on site next to pool and bought the only pare there was. It was a mask covering my nose and they didn’t let me in.

[Tisserant]

Hmm my local pool sell's snorkels and lets you use them. I guess some people are just to afraid a one in a million acident wil happen and sum1 will sue them big time. The world is getting just that little bit to pc.

[Jon H]

They might but do they sell the masks aswell? and probly i think we gone to american with this sueing thing

[Terry]

Divers
Last week I was packing my dive gear ready for an upcoming dive and whilst packing I dropped the dive mask that Ive been using for the last 2 or 3 years on to the tiled bathroom floor. Both lenses shattered into a multitude of pieces and whilst picking up the pieces I managed to cut myself, not once but twice. At that point I gave up and washed the floor and the rest of the bits down the drain.
Very simple to do in a small bathroom.
KDS KDS
Terry

[craigdiver]

I'm surprised that this theory has not been brought up - specially with the recent incident I read about (if anyone else also read this please let me know because I cannot remember for the life of me where I read it!)

If a child is floating face down in a pool with a mask and snorkel - appearing to be snorkeling, how do you know they have not drowned (recent fatality in swimming pool at holiday camp where child was thought to be snorkeling but had actually drowned).

[*Gill]

Okay this thread has annoyed me a little (understatement). :mad:

Here's the scenario:

Your son is allowed in wearing a snorkel and mask, practising snorkelling, another child jumps in the water and accidentally lands on his back.
The lifeguard team rescue him treating the situation as a possible spinal injury, and he is lifted out of the pool on a spinal board.

The lifeguard team then attempt to recusitate him, only to discover his nose is covered by the mask (a main point of recusitiation on a spinal casualty to avoid moving the chin/neck) and his mouth has a snorkel in it (removing this involves moving the lips/chin - possibly causing paralysis).

They then have to decide :confused:
Do they remove his mask (moving your neck, possibly causing paralysis) to recusitate through his nose?
Do they use his mouth thereby removing snorkel, moving your chin to open airways, and possible causing paralysis?
Do they leave him for dead?

Goggles do not cause this problem as they only cover the eyes, nor do nose clips as they are easily removed.

Ultimately all lifeguards (snorkel specialised or not) in that scenario would risk causing paralysis in order to save a life, however if the parents had considered this in the first place and accepted the fact the pool has this policy for a reason, the child would never have been placed in the situation of ending up in a wheelchair for life or dying. :eek:

PS I am a lifeguard and snorkel instructor, snorkels and masks are not toys, and should not be used in public swimming sessions.

[Tony Dwyer]

Gill

Interesting post.

In the event of a suspected spinal injury:-

If you can't move the head and you can't do a chin lift, how do you ensure that you have an open airway?