Latex Versus Neoprene Neck Seal on Membrane Drysuit!

[scubadoo]

Hi,

looking for help and advice about neck seals on a membrane drysuit. I am going to order a new drysuit but am unsure about neck seals, one guy in my club says to get neoprene and the other says latex.

Help!

[Gareth]

Hi

I have been UK diving for over 13 years. I started with a membrane suit with Latex seals. When I changed the suit for a newer crushed neoprene I again went for Latex seals.

A few years ago I had the neck seal changed for Neoprene, just before Christmas the wrist seals where changed for Neoprene. I would not go back to Latex. The neoprene is more comfortable. Prehaps more importantly, its significantly harder wearing, & a lot less likely to fail in the field, & easier to repair if it does so!

My reluctance to change originally was related to the fear of the unknown, & the expense & disruption of having them changed back again!

In addition, I don't suffer from neck rash anymore after a weeks diving!

Gareth

[judithbodkin]

I would go for a Neoprene Neck Seal having tried both the Neoprene is a
lot more comfortable. Plus the other reason that changed I have a allergy
to Latex which I only found out after buying my drysuit with a Latex Neckseal!!!

Cost difference isn't that much either.

[Alan Ewart]

I like neoprene, warmer & more comfortable, but prone to a bit of a trickle down the back of your neck.

I found latex uncomfortably restrictive, especially on a long rib trip

[Nigel Hewitt]

looking for help and advice about neck seals on a membrane drysuit. I am going to order a new drysuit but am unsure about neck seals, one guy in my club says to get neoprene and the other says latex.Probably one is a thin one and one is a tubby one.

Neoprene is gentler and warmer but if your ligaments stand out like steel wires, as mine do, it will leak like a sieve and the snap tight - rubber band effect of latex is the only way to go.

[Roz]

There is another big difference between a male and female diver. A male has a big head and a big neck. Effectively if you look at the head and neck as one object, it is a large rectangle or big block. A female diver is different. She will have a big head, (ok, stop laughing at the back), and a little neck. This is important when you think about seals.

A traditional neoprene neck seal has not much give and stretch, and so is ideal when dealing with a block head (male). Give it to a female diver and you get a different story. If you can get it over the head, then there is room for a barn dance in the neck, and you are likely to suffer from that breath taking away water gush whenever you move your head. If it fits the neck, then getting it over the head is like giving birth and you can end up pulling out great clumps of hair. It has also been noted that thick neoprene neck seals can be so tough that you almost put your neck out when getting them on. Painful! O’Three gave this consideration and developed a special horizontal extending fabric for the neck seal called “Super Stretch”. It has the properties reminiscent of neoprene, so that either sex benefits from a warm neck and easy donning and doffing without suffering from an involuntary haircut or a water gush down the neck whenever they twitch.

Neoprene seals are a lot tougher and do not suffer degradation from UV Rays when compared to latex. I had a latex neck seal go after four months in the Red Sea, but I was diving it almost every single day, 3 or 4 times a day. (It effectively got the equivalent of two or three years of normal diving). But I am still a latex girl, it’s wonderful stuff. These seals are light, a dream to don and doff, trim and stretch, and they fit a whole range of neck sizes. Ok, so they can puncture, but in a decade of dry suit diving I’ve never ruptured or holed one, and I love wreck diving. If you get into the mind set that this seal is a consumable you will be just fine.

Remember that with a too tight fitting neck seal there is a chance of Carotid Sinus Reflex occurring. This is where the neck seal exerts pressure on the Carotid Artery. The brain perceives this as high blood pressure and lowers the pulse rate. If this cycle keeps on occurring, eventually the diver will lose consciousness. This is less of a hazard when on dry land. Underwater the diver is more likely to drown. So when you go and pick up your suit, talk to the manufacturer as to what they would suggest you do to get your seals to fit you properly.

[John Williams]

There is another big difference between a male and female diver. A male has a big head and a big neck. Effectively if you look at the head and neck as one object, it is a large rectangle or big block. A female diver is different. She will have a big head, (ok, stop laughing at the back), and a little neck. This is important when you think about seals.

A traditional neoprene neck seal has not much give and stretch, and so is ideal when dealing with a block head (male). Give it to a female diver and you get a different story. If you can get it over the head, then there is room for a barn dance in the neck, and you are likely to suffer from that breath taking away water gush whenever you move your head. If it fits the neck, then getting it over the head is like giving birth and you can end up pulling out great clumps of hair. It has also been noted that thick neoprene neck seals can be so tough that you almost put your neck out when getting them on. Painful! O’Three gave this consideration and developed a special horizontal extending fabric for the neck seal called “Super Stretch”. It has the properties reminiscent of neoprene, so that either sex benefits from a warm neck and easy donning and doffing without suffering from an involuntary haircut or a water gush down the neck whenever they twitch.

Neoprene seals are a lot tougher and do not suffer degradation from UV Rays when compared to latex. I had a latex neck seal go after four months in the Red Sea, but I was diving it almost every single day, 3 or 4 times a day. (It effectively got the equivalent of two or three years of normal diving). But I am still a latex girl, it’s wonderful stuff. These seals are light, a dream to don and doff, trim and stretch, and they fit a whole range of neck sizes. Ok, so they can puncture, but in a decade of dry suit diving I’ve never ruptured or holed one, and I love wreck diving. If you get into the mind set that this seal is a consumable you will be just fine.

Remember that with a too tight fitting neck seal there is a chance of Carotid Sinus Reflex occurring. This is where the neck seal exerts pressure on the Carotid Artery. The brain perceives this as high blood pressure and lowers the pulse rate. If this cycle keeps on occurring, eventually the diver will lose consciousness. This is less of a hazard when on dry land. Underwater the diver is more likely to drown. So when you go and pick up your suit, talk to the manufacturer as to what they would suggest you do to get your seals to fit you properly.

I began my membrane drysuit diving career with a latex seal...and two days diving gave me open sores that stung like hell in salt water. (something I never had with my neoprene drysuit)

I moved to neoprene seals on membrane suits (I like the way membranes dive and the flexibility of different undersuits) and had all the problems that Roz mentions with the more traditional/older neoprenes. Tight over my <block> head and then not particularly snug around my neck (though my neck would probably fill it out nowadays:( )

When the more modern. stretchier neoprene neck seals arrived I eventually moved to those and have never looked back! (nor would I wish to!)

One of the main advantages (I feel) is comfort and warmth. No open sores after two days. No extended neck on my hood to turn up and get in the way of my reg. You cannot expect to use a latex seal in the UK (in winter) without some other thermal protection for your neck (perhaps in the Red Sea you got away with this Roz?)

I'd not dive in latex ever again (unless the option was not to dive at all!). I'd go to extraordinary lengths to ensure a neoprene neck seal - to be sure that my neck was still in a fit state to dive for more than two days!

I do still prefer latex wrist seals though!

My wife finds latex wrist seals (particularly the heavy-duty ones) cut off the circulation to her hands. She overcomes this by pre-stretching them with baked bean tins overnight. Be sure to remove the bean tins and allow the seals to "relax" in plenty of time for the dive if your wrists are smaller than bean tins! (she got very wet the day she removed the tins just before the dive!
She also uses latex neck seals!

HTH

John

[MattDuke]

Interesting.

I tend to swap between both every time I change them, as I find advantages to both!

In the end I have come to these conclusions:

Neoprean neck seal:

+ No neck sores!
+ Longer lasting and easy to repair holes
+ Warm neck!
- Can leak a bit if you are skinny necked
- Can be a fiddle to put on and "Rolled" when it's very cold
- I find it lets water in when scootering.

Latex neck seal:

+ Excellent seal & dry, even when scootering
+ Easy to change out if it tears
+ Easy to put on
- Gives me nasty neck rash
- Less durable than neoprean
- Can be cold if you have a short hood

Neoprean Wrist seals:

+ Longer lasting and easy to repair holes
+ Warm wrists!
- Can leak a bit if you are skinny wristed
- Can be a fiddle to put on and off. But not with KY/Soap
- I find it lets water in when scootering & doing valve drills

Latex wrists seals:

+ Excellent seal & dry, even when scootering
+ Easy to change out if it tears
+ Easy to put on
- Less durable than neoprean
- Can be cold if you have short gloves.

My current configuration:
Neoprean Wrist seals, A latex neck seal and Beaver Warm neck hood.
This suits me for wreck diving and scootering, but my forearms are wet every dive.

Best

Matt

[Ben Thompson]

Probably one is a thin one and one is a tubby one.

Neoprene is gentler and warmer but if your ligaments stand out like steel wires, as mine do, it will leak like a sieve and the snap tight - rubber band effect of latex is the only way to go.

I've found the complete opposite! My first suit with Latex seals- I went through four different wrist seals trying to get a dry fit, my current suit, neoprene wrists, now 3 and a bit years old, still like new- bone dry.

As for the neck- neoprene every time. Warm, I don't get a trickle which a few people tend to, and can wear it all day, every day for a couple of weeks, and don't have any "hang marks" on my neck! Just had a new neck put on, the last one was really starting to go (after five years, and 500+ dives!)

Also, when they break, they're a lot better- my last latex seal fell into multiple pieces when I took it off, whereas the neoprene wasn't even leaking... it was just getting to the point where you could see through the tape to the underlying stitches (on the inside of the seal) :eek:

[Janos]

I used to have dreadful leaks with my latex neck seal, but then someone suggested that as I have a 'short' neck [1] then I would be better off with a neoprene seal. That's what I have and it's great.

But then other people I know have gone the other way and love their latex seals.

Janos

[1] - I'm still trying to work out if this is a euphemism for wide.