Salvage on War Graves

[SUNDODGER]

Just seen on DM online that the Cloggies are ripping three WW1 warships to bits copy follows........

An insult to our war dead: Dutch vessels ransack sunken British warships containing the bodies of 1,500 sailors for scrap metal
By Daily Mail Reporter

Last updated at 5:06 PM on 27th September 2011

Comments (25) Add to My Stories Share Dutch salvage vessels are illegally ransacking three sunken British cruisers in an attempt to find valuable scrap metal, it has emerged.

Looters have enraged the British naval community by scouring through the remains of the three warships sunk in the First World War and which are the final resting place of 1,500 sailors.

Netherlands police are now attempting to end the looters' activity, which has seen them use heavy-duty claws on cranes to tear through the shipwrecks 22 miles off the Dutch coast.

HMS Aboukir, above, HMS Hogue, below, and HMS Cressy, bottom, which were sunk off the Dutch coast by a German torpedo in 1914. They are the last resting places of 1,500 British seamen


According to The Times, the Ministry of Defence and the Dutch Cultural Agency have condemned the disturbance of the war grave.

Vice-Admiral John McAnally, president of the Royal Naval Association, urged the metal hunt to stop in telling the paper: 'Leave our sailors alone. Let them rest in peace.'

The three ships were sunk off the Dutch coast on September 22, 1914, after being hit by torpedos from a German submarine.

HMS Aboukir was struck at 6.20am, while its fellow British warships Hogue and Cressy were also unable to avoid the German torpedos.

An estimated 1459 British soldiers aboard the armoured Royal Navy cruisers perished during the attack by the German U-9 sub.
The Times reported that local dive operators raised the alarm about the illegal salvage after seeing the damage to one of the North Sea's most popular diving sites.

Netherlands coastguard officials confirmed that salvage vessels were on the site and that they had been found with pieces of wreckage, but the destruction has not been stopped.

Marine conservationists and maritime historians have now warned Britain of the scavenging in a letter to the Ambassador to the Netherlands.

It has been alleged that two ships in the port of Scheveningen, the MS Bernica and MS Bela, are the ones responsible for the raids.

A spokesperson for the Ministry of Defence said: 'We do not condone the unauthorised disturbance of any wreck containing human remains.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042294/Dutch-vessels-ransack-sunken-British-warships-containing-bodies-1-500-sailors-scrap-metal.html#ixzz1ZBsakxvF

Get Jane Maddocks on the case says I!!!! ;)

[Chris aka divingchef]

Hi Sundodger

Aparently these three vessels were sold by the MOD to german salvages in 1954, suggesting that the salvage is legit :mad:

However there may be a case under the Geneve Convention 1948 regarding the treatment of war dead.

C

[Richard Mason]

If it's illegal under UK law, can't they use a EAW to bring the offenders before the UK courts?

[Nigel Hewitt]

If it's illegal under UK law, can't they use a EAW to bring the offenders before the UK courts?
If they were sold for scrap and we want to change the rules I guess we'd have to buy them back first.

Attitudes change and if we took the money back then it's no good us whinging now.

[Mike Halligan]

If it's illegal under UK law, can't they use a EAW to bring the offenders before the UK courts?

England has a long history of making up laws for other peoples but I guess the Netherlands Crown and Government would have something to say about an attempt to interfere in their jurisdiction. :o

Aren't the Dutch entitled to sail right up the Thames without a pilot? (Because that's precisely what their fleet once did! Now that HMS Belfast has been airbrushed out of the water by our Olympic publicists, would we be able to keep them back? Best let these sleeping dogs lie, I'd say. :eek:

[Mike Keane]

Anybody know if there is a list available of vessels sold for salvage by the MOD or successive governments?

I expect the only practical solution for vessels sunk outside of any owning states waters is to sell them for salvage as you may be asked to remove your vessel particularly if it is full of explosives or other contaminants.
With ownership comes responsibility.

[Eddie Clamp]

I have just been passed this by a well informed source:

It seems that the crews of these ships were nearly all Coastguards.The Admiralty was then in charge of the CG and all CG were Naval Reservists and could be called up at any time. It was the highest loss of CG's in both World Wars. The three cruisers were classed as Coastguard Vessels.

At one time most of the RNLI lifeboats were crewed by CG's as well. The CG's had the highest amount of RNLI medals and this caused the Government then to stop CG's manning the Lifeboats. This was a plan to stop the Public then demanding that the Government pay for the RNLI.

[Chris aka divingchef]

Here is a link to the legislation:


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/35/section/2?view=extent


Enjoy:rolleyes:

[one_tc]

Anybody know if there is a list available of vessels sold for salvage by the MOD or successive governments?

I expect the only practical solution for vessels sunk outside of any owning states waters is to sell them for salvage as you may be asked to remove your vessel particularly if it is full of explosives or other contaminants.
With ownership comes responsibility.

The "Richard B Montgomery" a WW2 liberty ship is sunk in the Thames estuary, U.S. owned and still full of ageing explosives.

[ChristianG]

Best let these sleeping dogs lie, I'd say. :eek:
Chuckle. :D

[Mike Keane]

I think the "Richard B Montgomery" is still on loan.:rolleyes:

The SAM ships group were 200 ships representing the DAS Appropriation Act agreed by Congress on the 27th of March 1941, the number of ships represented only 7.5 per cent of the total tonnage built and were loaned to Britain on lease lend terms.

It was generally thought that the nomenclature ‘Sam’ stood for Uncle Sam however the prefix in fact stood for Superstructure Aft of Midships a designation given them by the Ministry of War Transport. For two years after the war the Sam ships continued to operate under Britain’s control but in a wave of ‘American Nationalism’ Americans called for their return and subsequent mothballing. After acrimonious and protracted meetings the Americans finally agreed to sell 100 of the ships to their British operators at a price far and above the vessels true value.

The price had to be agreed because of the dire shortage of tonnage within the British Mercantile Fleet due to Britain’s high wartime losses. Most of the outstanding ships left after those purchased by British Companies did in fact go into the Reserve Fleet never to sail the seas again.

[one_tc]

This makes interesting reading on the Montgomery.
http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=6051.0;wap2

Also good Youtube clip for an overview, for those not familiar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9UePXNdqlQ