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Hi,
I am wondering if you can provide me some information. I am not a diver (so please excuse my lack of knowledge)...
One of our neighbours who is a keen diver is storing lots of (minimum 10) compressed gas cylinders of varying sizes in both the garage and their flat.
My concern is that there is no signage at all on the garage which is no more than 15 meters from the main building, and we have concers that if a fire did start there could be huge problems due to the compressed gas.
The second concern is that they also often keep the cylinders in their flat and we have the same safety concers regarding this.
I don't know if anyone can let me know what the 'official' storage procedures are regarding this, as it seems that there should at least be some sign or 'something'... esp as they also store a motorbike in the same garage (petrol + compressed gas = bad news?!?!?).
Would appreciate your reply,
Regards,
Mez
Alan Ewart
02-02-2006, 22:05
Well the first thing I would do is discuss your concerns with your neighbour.
There is no legal requirement for him to display a sign saying that he's storing compressed gas. You are right of course there is a danger if compressed gas is exposed to a fire. That said do you store dangerous items in your garage, petrol, old tins of paint, Parrafin etc etc. All innocous until mixed with fire.
I would suggest that the motor cycle is more of a danger than the diving cylinders.
Hi,
I am wondering if you can provide me some information. I am not a diver (so please excuse my lack of knowledge)...
One of our neighbours who is a keen diver is storing lots of (minimum 10) compressed gas cylinders of varying sizes in both the garage and their flat.
My concern is that there is no signage at all on the garage which is no more than 15 meters from the main building, and we have concers that if a fire did start there could be huge problems due to the compressed gas.
The second concern is that they also often keep the cylinders in their flat and we have the same safety concers regarding this.
I don't know if anyone can let me know what the 'official' storage procedures are regarding this, as it seems that there should at least be some sign or 'something'... esp as they also store a motorbike in the same garage (petrol + compressed gas = bad news?!?!?).
Would appreciate your reply,
Regards,
Mez
It sounds to me (IMHO) as if your looking for a reason to shop the guy rather than assess the real level of risk to you and others.
Yes any compressed gas can present a risk given the right situation, but I bet theres as many of these risks in your own home as there are in your neighbours, e.g. hair sprays, air fresheners, spray deoderants etc. all of which have butane gas as the propelent.
If stored correctly (in sound and tested cylinders) compressed air is no more dangerous than the tyres on your car.
Do you even know if all the cylinders are fully charged??
As Alen said, try talking to the guy, you might be surprised at how accommodating your neighbour is.
[QUOTE=mez]Hi,
I am wondering if you can provide me some information. I am not a diver (so please excuse my lack of knowledge)...
One of our neighbours who is a keen diver is storing lots of (minimum 10) compressed gas cylinders of varying sizes in both the garage and their flat.
I suspect that as the person concerned being a diver are fully aware of their responsibility as to the storage and maintenance of their cylinders but in relation to your question perhaps a read of this will allay your fears.
http://www.powys.gov.uk/uploads/media/indg308.pdf
as you can see provided the cylinders are stored correctly and kept in a serviceable condition they are quite safe. It is only in the event of a major fire that they may and I stress may become dangerous. I also suspect that the person concerned would give the fire service adequate warning of any such danger.
As the other respondents have suggested perhaps you should talk to your neighbour? This I am sure will be of benifit to you both.
One of our neighbours who is a keen diver is storing lots of (minimum 10) compressed gas cylinders of varying sizes in both the garage and their flat.
That's not so bad. I've just looked round my computer room here, and I can count 12 cylinders. And my main dive kit is in the other room...
My concern is that there is no signage at all on the garage which is no more than 15 meters from the main building, and we have concers that if a fire did start there could be huge problems due to the compressed gas.
OK, let's allay some of those fears.
Firstly - there's no need for signage. If your neighbour is a professional diver, he'll need signs on the vehicle he uses to transport them, but the garage is not a problem.
As for the fire risk - don't worry. Diving cylinders are inspected regularly, and part of that inspection involves pressurising them to 150% of their rated working pressure - that's almost 350 atmospheres for the type of cylinders I use, and 450 for that used by some people. The cylinder must not just survive, it must not deform plastically. This means that dive cylinders are easily capable of withstanding these pressures.
Now if we use the Ideal Gas Equation (which isn't strictly valid at this sort of-pressure, but it's near enough), raising the pressure by 50% by means of a fire would happen by raising the temperature (in Kelvin) by 50% - in other words, the temperature of the cylinder would have to rise by about 150 degrees centigrade to get to the pressure that the cylinder is known to survive. At that sort of temperature, the valve seats will likely fail - leading to a very loud, but harmless depressurisation of the cylinder - but the cylinder walls will hold.
The second concern is that they also often keep the cylinders in their flat and we have the same safety concers regarding this.
I think you're worrying over nothing.
I don't know if anyone can let me know what the 'official' storage procedures are regarding this, as it seems that there should at least be some sign or 'something'...
From what you've told us, your neighbour is behaving perfectly properly.
esp as they also store a motorbike in the same garage (petrol + compressed gas = bad news?!?!?).
A motorcycle and *fire* is bad news. Any petrol vehicle and fire is bad news. The diving cylinders will make no difference...
Really - you shouldn't worry. The safety margins for diving cylinders are enormous.
HTH
Vic.
Keith Lawrence
03-02-2006, 00:38
I am wondering if you can provide me some information. I am not a diver (so please excuse my lack of knowledge)...
One of our neighbours who is a keen diver is storing lots of (minimum 10) compressed gas cylinders of varying sizes in both the garage and their flat.
My concern is that there is no signage at all on the garage which is no more than 15 meters from the main building, and we have concers that if a fire did start there could be huge problems due to the compressed gas. The second concern is that they also often keep the cylinders in their flat and we have the same safety concers regarding this.Hi 'Mez'
If you don't know about such things then I can see why you are concerned, but you really are worrying over nothing and I also suggest that you simply talk to your neighbour.
I'll give you a few simple facts that I hope will help -
These are probably breathing gas diving cylinders, there's nothing in them that will explode, nothing like the TV pictures of propane cylinders exploding.
If one did go off (very unlikely!) it would probably dent his garage door a bit and not a lot else.
These things are tested and inspected at very regular intervals, by law. They are tested to a far higher pressure than a fire is likely to take them to.
They are the same as the cylinders on firemans backs that they quite happily take into fires.Go and do a bit of Google research, try and find some news reports of these things exploding and devistating the neighbourhood, if you do find any (I can't!) then we'd love to know about them. This really is a non-issue, you are worrying yourself about nothing. Do you think that we, as divers, would knowingly put our own houses and families at risk if these things were actaully dangerous?
HTH
Keith L
It sounds to me (IMHO) as if your looking for a reason to shop the guy rather than assess the real level of risk to you and others.
Just to clarify,
the reason I came to this forum was because I had searched the internet and couldn't find any answers, and thought you guys might be able to put my mind at ease, or advise me accordingly. I do not wish to 'shop in' our neighbour, but just wanted to find out what the situation was before I spoke to them...
ie If I was concerned over nothing, then there is no reason to ask them really...
As I said, I am not a diver, so have never really needed to know this information, and thought you guys as divers could probably help. I didn't mean to offend any of you with my lack of knowledge in these matters...
Our neighbours are rarely there (usually away diving most weekends) and it's difficult to catch them on the evenings ... even when they are away some of the cylinders are still in the garage... hence my concern regarding no one being able to inform the emergency services accordingly if necessary.
To those of you who have given reassurance, thank you.
Just to clarify,
I don't think there's any reason for you to clarify. :)
If you're not a diver then you've no idea whether diving equipment is safe or not. I think I might be curious too as to whether there was any danger if I was in your situation, but I hope we've been able to reassure you that there isn't.
Cheers,
Janos
PS - Why not learn to dive yourself. Go on. You know you want to :D
PS - Why not learn to dive yourself. Go on. You know you want to :DHave always thought diving would be fun.... but due to sinus pressure problems, have never been able to give it a go... :(
Thanks for the reassurance....
Mez :D
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