View Full Version : Computers
Whats the best computer to start on in your views?
I don't know the first thing about them TBH but I feel that I need one as I'm starting to really get into diving.
Hi Matt,
Your likely to get a whole load of differing opinions about which is best and why people think so! So I wont go into a rant about what I think is best (although Sunnto Vytec's are a good all rounder).
What you should be asking first is what type of diving are you likely to be doing? Will you at some point be using mixed gases?
My advice try and see beyond your current needs and look 18months down the line, and buy one thats going to serve you for your future diving. Otherwise you could find yourself buy twice.
The best i can surgest is what John C has said , try and decide what and where your going with your diving , then go to your local dive shop and have a good look at the variety available , decide what you want loads of info or not on a screen , can you see everything on the screen is it practical for what you want . Also decide how much you want to pay and stick to it within reason , the dive mag usually has some good and objective write up's and does comparisons , have a good read ;)
The best i can surgest is what John C has said , try and decide what and where your going with your diving , then go to your local dive shop and have a good look at the variety available , decide what you want loads of info or not on a screen , can you see everything on the screen is it practical for what you want . Also decide how much you want to pay and stick to it within reason , the dive mag usually has some good and objective write up's and does comparisons , have a good read ;)
All good advice above but I'd add one thing. When you go to a LDS, make that at least two different shops and do not buy anything on either of the first visits to each.
Come away, ask around some more and reconsider. After that do the interweb search thingie for prices of your chosen model and see if your preferred LDS will price match.
Also remember there's a Dive show on the 1st and 2nd April which may offer a chance for a cheaper deal or at least an opportunity to compare different models.
I would recommed the Gekko over the Vytec (as this is posted in the 'just started diving' bit) as the Gekko does everything that I need including Nitrox to 50%.
The important bit is to suss out what you need it to do now, and what you are going to what it to do next and buy the one that does that.
eg if you are currently doing no stop dives on air (as I was when i bought the Gekko) look at one that will sort out deco and possibly cope with Nitrox as a dive gas.
would not advise going for one that is all siging because itll just get confusing.
Nick Kay
01-02-2006, 09:50
Assuming you know what sort of diving you want to do...
1. But a "Nitrox capable" computer - better resale value if you need to dispose of it
2. It needs to match the sort of diving you're intending to do
3. Depends on your eyesight - some are much easier to read than others
4. Suggested list:
- VR3 (the dogs b's)
- Vytek (twin mix, accelerated deco)
- Gekko (cheaper and does the same as the Cobra/Vyper, except no backlight, though luminescent, no upload)
^^ I have the Cobra, my son has the Gekko. If I were buying one of those two again, I'd go for the Gekko
- Gekko (cheaper and does the same as the Cobra/Vyper, except no backlight, though luminescent, no upload)
Matt - The Cobra's also air integrated and attaches to a hp hose where as the Gekko is a wrist mount.
Your likely to get a whole load of differing opinions about which is best and why people think so!
Yep, I knew that, but the more opinions the better IMO. ;)
So I wont go into a rant about what I think is best (although Sunnto Vytec's are a good all rounder).
OK, I'll have a look at that one, ta!
What you should be asking first is what type of diving are you likely to be doing? Will you at some point be using mixed gases?
Good point - Maybe... not yet but maybe.
My advice try and see beyond your current needs and look 18months down the line, and buy one thats going to serve you for your future diving. Otherwise you could find yourself buy twice.
Good advice, which is exactly why I've bought the twinset - If I go onto nitrox in the future I have the twin bottles to do the progression easily.
All good advice above but I'd add one thing. When you go to a LDS, make that at least two different shops and do not buy anything on either of the first visits to each.
Come away, ask around some more and reconsider. After that do the interweb search thingie for prices of your chosen model and see if your preferred LDS will price match.
Also remember there's a Dive show on the 1st and 2nd April which may offer a chance for a cheaper deal or at least an opportunity to compare different models.
Great advice, and I'll probably be going to that show too. thanks!
I would recommed the Gekko over the Vytec (as this is posted in the 'just started diving' bit) as the Gekko does everything that I need including Nitrox to 50%.
Cool, I'll look at that one too!
would not advise going for one that is all siging because itll just get confusing.
That's what I was worried about.
Assuming you know what sort of diving you want to do...
1. But a "Nitrox capable" computer - better resale value if you need to dispose of it
True - I probaby will anyway.
2. It needs to match the sort of diving you're intending to do
Yep, and more so I don't have to buy another one if I progress...
3. Depends on your eyesight - some are much easier to read than others
Ha! Very good point... (doesn't stop me moving the thing closer to my head tho.....:rolleyes: )
4. Suggested list:
- VR3 (the dogs b's)
- Vytek (twin mix, accelerated deco)
- Gekko (cheaper and does the same as the Cobra/Vyper, except no backlight, though luminescent, no upload)
^^ I have the Cobra, my son has the Gekko. If I were buying one of those two again, I'd go for the Gekko
Cool, I'll have a good old gander at those and see which is best for me, thanks!
Thanks for all the replies folks, much appreciated. I understand that you've probably had this post before a million times and those of you who have seen this question come up loads, I apologise for making you all type it out again!
Even though I have a Vytec, and think it's fantastic, I would get a Gekko over a Vytec if you are starting out. Remember that the people who post regularly on t'internet tend to be the most "enthusiastic" of divers and so tend to be involved in diving that is deeper than average.
If you are just starting out, a Gekko will last you for several years before you outgrow it, if you ever do. By then there might be something better on the market anyway.
Janos
Paul Oliver
01-02-2006, 19:24
Yes its all personal preference but i had a Vyper and was very happy with that, but once i moved into ERD i upgraded to a Vytec and sold the Vyper for a good price.
If i was starting out the Gekko would be my choice i think as i don't download profiles much, so it does everything i would want.
I personally would not consider an Air only computer 'cos the sooner you are on Nitrox the safer your diving will be :) I personally am very happy with the SUUNTO Deco model and i feel good after following its stop regime.
Shop around though, lots of VERY good deals on the interwebbythingy ;)
I'd avoid E-Bay as they go for stupid money on there. You can often get a new one for cheaper than bids on there.
James - Narked@50
01-02-2006, 19:58
Suunto are some of the best around for recreational diving. I would go for a Vyper if you want nitrox and a good all rounder and the Vytec if you want to start switching bottom or travel gasses. Both will have good re-sales. Anything else is personal preferance, these do it all.
James
Even though I have a Vytec, and think it's fantastic, I would get a Gekko over a Vytec if you are starting out. Remember that the people who post regularly on t'internet tend to be the most "enthusiastic" of divers and so tend to be involved in diving that is deeper than average.
If you are just starting out, a Gekko will last you for several years before you outgrow it, if you ever do. By then there might be something better on the market anyway.
Seconded :D
The other thing is Suunto have just brought out a new Vytec called the Vytec DS (Deep Stop). So you either buy the old one and not use the features for a while then wish you had the DS or you spend even more money and have loads of feature you will not use for a while then wish you had the XYZ latest model. Alternatively you save the money by buying a Gekko which will do everything you are likely to need for the next few years and then use that saved money to actually go diving more (which is after all the whole point of the exercise.
Richard Whitcombe
02-02-2006, 16:39
Ive got a Vyper. First computer i bought and still the only one i use.
Personally id get one that has a log download to a PC option as ive found that method of logging and recording dives far superior to the pen and paper method.
Adrian Kelland
02-02-2006, 16:57
Ive got a Vyper. First computer i bought and still the only one i use.
Personally id get one that has a log download to a PC option as ive found that method of logging and recording dives far superior to the pen and paper method.
As long as you back it up. It can be useful to have some kind of written record when on diving abroad too.
Adrian
Buy a cheaper computer, but make sure it does nitrox, becasue even if you wonder what on earth it is now, you will want it soon.
Other than that - no point in getting advanced stuff like gas switches or other frills as by the time you come round to needing it there will be a newer, better computer on the market that you want anyway, spend the extra money on actually diving in the meantime.
Gekko looks good (about £150?), Vyper is a bit more expensive, but if you are a computer geek, or lazy about writing up dives the PC link is nice - if a dive buddy already has the cable, so much the better because that is more money.
Richard Whitcombe
02-02-2006, 18:53
As long as you back it up. It can be useful to have some kind of written record when on diving abroad too.
Adrian
True - i print out off the SDM logging program and take those with me. I also back up the actual data file to CD periodically. That way it should be fairly well protected from losing the lot. (Whereas i can easily and have easily lost a paper only log book!).
Richard Whitcombe
02-02-2006, 18:54
if a dive buddy already has the cable, so much the better because that is more money.
... or if feeling creative make your own for about £5 :)
Chris Cherrington
02-02-2006, 20:09
These debates always make me laugh. "Hi I'm a new diver..." followed by "you want a multi gas deco model.." even thought the poster is yet to get a basic trox card...
Suunto Vyper. Sells well secondhand if you change your mind. Check it on ebay for price. The Vytec is for the distant future (and if you must buy that get one the DS.....great for 20m no-stop bimbles :D)
Chris
These debates always make me laugh. "Hi I'm a new diver..." followed by "you want a multi gas deco model.." even thought the poster is yet to get a basic trox card...
Suunto Vyper. Sells well secondhand if you change your mind. Check it on ebay for price. The Vytec is for the distant future (and if you must buy that get one the DS.....great for 20m no-stop bimbles :D)
Chris
Chris I think your being a just a little to negative and dismissive. You seem to be assuming that everyone will take a some time before they will be considering diving deep or using mixed gases.
How many people actually know from day one what they will be doing in 12months time? Very few I guess? (and I bet a lot of people with the benifit of hindsight would buy different had they known then what they know now).
I started to dive last June, and have just finished my SD course and looking to do TDI Nitrox and start my Dive Leader in the next 6 months.
Im not saying that I'm a good diver, (far from it) hell I'd be the first to admit I've still got a hell of a lot to learn.
But if I went out 6 months ago and bought something basic, for about £150, I know I'd be spending that again (and some) to meet my needs come June 06, and thats before I'd been diving 18 months.
You can never future proof any purchase, but I would say that spending and extra £100 today for something extra over you might not need for a while, has got to be better than buying twice after 12-24months.:(
I agree with a lot of what has been written above. However, one thing which is very useful is to look for a computer that has a gauge mode (depth and timer) - not sure that all of them do.
I have a Suunto Vyper and have recently upgraded to a VR3 as it can cope with gas swtiches, plus I like the deep stops it requires. However, the Vyper is always on my other wrist in gauge mode - if the VR3 fails, then the Vyper and a wrist slate with run times on it will get me out of the water safely.
It just means that what you buy now will not necessarily be surplus to requirements as your diving progresses. I would have been very frustrated if I had spent a couple of hundred quid on a computer and then had to dicth it after a couple of years (notwithstanding what you can get back through eBay etc).
Hope that helps a bit.
Keith Lawrence
03-02-2006, 00:19
These debates always make me laugh. "Hi I'm a new diver..." followed by "you want a multi gas deco model.." even thought the poster is yet to get a basic trox card...I disagree Chris, we're trying trying to stop people making the same mistake as many, many others have made!
Club notice boards and eBay are full of air only computers, ask them why they are selling and you will get the reply "Oh, I've gone over to nitrox and I need a nitrox computer", constrast that with how many nitrox computers you see second hand because people buy something they don't need.
A nitrox computer has a far higher resale value if you do want to get rid of it as well. My advice is always if you want a cheap computer then look on the club notice board, there's normally somebody selling a cheap air only one because they are upgrading. But if you're buying new then pay that extra £20 or so now for the nitrox model, because it will save you buying another in a years time and you'll get it back in resale value if you do want to get rid of it.
Cheers
Keith L
To follow what Keith said - there have been a lot a calls for the gekko, which is about as basic Nx computer as you can get.
Nick Kay
03-02-2006, 10:50
Let me add something ro my original response...
Gekko vs Vyper/Cobra (putting aside the air integration functionality)
1. Vyper/Cobra has download facility... In all honesty, I write up my dives (including all of those Instrucor dives) and every now and then update the PC at home via the Cobra<>PC link. In all honesty (IMHO) the link is a "nice-to-have" rather than a "must have"
2. When diving with my son, me on the Cobra, him on the Gekko, the think I like best about the Gekko is that you can "charge" the Gekko's face with your torch and its then readable for a considerable period of time, whereas I have to keep trying to remember which button to press to get the damn light to come on (and generally end up with loads of "bookmarks" because I've pressed the wrong button)
I'd therefore re-iterate...
1. Gekko as the 1st dive computer - does everything you NEED as a start-up computer, all the way through Nitrox and at this stage you're going to be writing up your logbook for signatures anyway
2. Vytek DS as your intro to tech diving
3. VR3 once you REALLY know that its tech diving you're into and/or you have the money
Chris Cherrington
03-02-2006, 11:48
Chris I think your being a just a little to negative and dismissive. You seem to be assuming that everyone will take a some time before they will be considering diving deep or using mixed gases.
I believe it is widely critisised to "rush" into deep diving. It has taken me many years to get to my current use of trimix, for which my Vyper is a good timer/depth device in gague mode.
I disagree Chris, we're trying trying to stop people making the same mistake as many, many others have made!
Club notice boards and eBay are full of air only computers,
My suggestion was the Vyper - its an EAN computer. I totally agree that air-only computers are the door-stop of tomorrow. I would advise anyone to buy EAN.
I stick to my recommendation the Vyper is a good computer for this person and the Vytec (at 300 quid) burns over £100 budget that would better be spent on other kit. if you bought a Vytec a while back no you cannot upgrade it to DS you gotta buy a new one (www.ebay.co.uk)
Chris
Ian@1904
03-02-2006, 23:01
As discussed on the thread there is no one right answer to this. In part it depends on the type of person that you are.
Some divers start on a budget computer, upgrade to something better, and upgrade again. I know of one diver going from a basic suunto, upgrade, upgrade, upgrade to VR3 in the space of 100 dives and one year.
Some people (like me)really like the download ability of some computers
Some people (like me) really like an integrated transmitter link
Nitrox is a given
Multi-gas diving, well that is up to you
My view is to take a guess at where you think your diving will go and purchase the best you can afford.
I purchased a Vytec in 2002 when they first came out.
In 2003 my beloved purchased a transmitter and I felt more relaxed in the water, better gas consumption.
In 2004 finally started using nitrox
In 2005 started to use multi-gas mixes
Personally I favour a Vytec as it does everything I need, for now. :)
Michael Purcell
09-02-2006, 20:32
I bought the D9 as my first computer and I love it.
I wouldn't consider it entry level but I do enjoy diving with it.
I really like the PC link because you get a great visual of your dive profile. Much easier to correct saw-tooth profiles.
I also like having the air integration.
The one "feature" which adds to the price is the compass. I've gotta tell you that isn't the strongest feature, but I even use that when I am out in the desert. (It stinks under-water because it seems to bugger up the air-integration.)
And Suunto needs a good kick in the a$$ for the software they distribute for managing your dives on the PC. If you can't trust the PC software it makes you get a little edgy about the firmware running the dive computer.
Helen (AKA Hellvet)
09-02-2006, 23:03
Another vote for the vyper - its my most favouritest bit of kit!
When i bought it as an ocean diver it did way more than i needed, but i rapidly moved into nitrox and was grateful i'd listened to all those who i consulted who said i needed a nitrox computer.
Its simple, easy to use, can be used with 1 nitrox mix, or air, as a gauge only, it downloads to my PC so i can log my profiles, has a user changeable battery, has a newish bubble model, and is just generally lovely.
The ONLY problem i have with it is i can't gas switch when using a different deco mix, so i do sometimes wish i'd got the Vytec, but in my defence the Vyper was a LOT cheaper at the time (like £150), and i really wouldn't have called on that much so far.
One last thing - consider what is in common use at your club. If those around you are familiar with how your computer works then it makes life easier when you're not quite sure for the first few dives, plus it means you're on the same deco profile as everyone else (i've known other computers give slightly more or less deco on the same dive for the same diver (one on each wrist)).
Vytec and transmitter for sale.
PM for a price
Francis James
10-02-2006, 00:37
I chose a Vyper about 3 yrs ago based on the good reports I got when asking other divers for their opinions and it has been superb for my mainly no deco diving.
I have recently purchased the download software and am just getting into the profiles and logs. In my opinion the Vyper is an ideal starting computer with facility to support just about any recreational dive.
garethwoodruff
10-02-2006, 10:06
Well about 4 of our new (last couple of years) divers in the club are using suunto Gekko's with no issues, the only problem is that the face is a little difficult to read if your eye site is not great.
Ultimately its personal choice, if your in a club, ask to borrow a few peoples different computers in the pool and see what you think of them.
Suunto vyper are good.
Thanks
mike collins
20-02-2006, 00:29
geat to see that people are giving the matter a lot of thought. if you are a diver who wants a computer to give just the basic dive protection the gekko is the best. however it is limited, it is designed as a entry level computer that will give you a bit more than a dive timer for not much more in price. however most divers will progress beyond the capeability of this unit and will want better log book information, a backlight and the ability to use nitrox,they will want to do multiple dives and serious decompression dives, then they should consider the suunto vyper.this will give you all the protection that you want at a very competitive price. of course if you want the best then go for the vitec with the optional transmiter or even better the new D9 if you want to spend big bucks. but what a computer the D9 is it gives you everythingincluding the kitchen sink
gthe gekko is the best. however it is limited, it is designed as a entry level computer that will give you a bit more than a dive timer for not much more in price. however most divers will progress beyond the capeability of this unit and will want better log book information, a backlight and the ability to use nitrox,they will want to do multiple dives and serious decompression dives, then they should consider the suunto vyper.this will give you all the protection that you want at a very competitive price
I think you might be getting a bit confused here - the Gekko has exactly the same deco model and display as the Vyper, i.e. it is just as capable as a Vyper for nitrox, multiple dives and serious decompression dives (unless you are talking about using guage mode in which case it would make more sense to go to the cheaper route of a D Timer or the more complete route of a Vytec)
I agree that the Gekko is an entry level computer, but it is capable of what I understand is average club diving, as it will cope with decompression and Nx to 50%. It is a fantastic first computer given the cost of Vypers, Vytecs, D9s etc.
As Nick said, Nx computers hold their value much better, so it isnt the end of the world if in a year or two you sell it and get the next model up.
Garry Whyke
20-02-2006, 13:31
Lots of good advice here, although personally I prefer the Aladin Pro Nitrox to the Suunto's. Basically because it has a larger screen and is easier to read. The Aladin is a very reliable and rugged (in my experience) and certainly should not be overlooked.
Saying that, the 3 mix Vytec is an excellent priced computer for the price, but it may be quite a while before you get to a stage where you are using full functionality.
My advice is definately to go for a Nitrox computer, whether its a Suunto or Aladin, as most diving is moving this way anyway it makes sense.
Although the VR3 really is the biz (and can be upgraded with new software as your demands on it increases) it is an expensive piece of kit, and certainly out of most peoples price brackets when they start odd.
Just make sure you look around and shop around for once you've decided what you want.
Good luck.
............. Garry
Nick Kay
20-02-2006, 13:44
And, just remember that you need a backup plan when diving with a computer
After all, electronics and water don't mix - just think of the potential for problems / product recalls if someone ever put electronics into a CCR :rolleyes:
So, backup plans:
:D Computer > Slate :D
:p CCR > OC :p
Garry Whyke
20-02-2006, 13:47
Oi,
I can guess who thats directed at.
Less of the ribbing.
Its working perfectly at just now (apart from that dive time issue:rolleyes: )
.......... Garry
Nick Kay
20-02-2006, 13:58
Garry
I'm so (NOT) waiting for the end of the Scapa trip when you compare O2 costs with us OC divers :(
David Walker
20-02-2006, 15:05
If you have a LOT of money to spend, and have enough for all the other kit you want / need, then something like a Vytec might be worthwhile now. But you won't use it for a couple of years at least (in my opinion).
If you're on any kind of a budget, then i'd suggest a Vyper / Gekko type computer. Single mix nitrox will become useful really quite quickly.
I would go for Suunto personally - the Aladdin ones were the main alternative when I got mine, but I didn't like the "lick your fingers" style buttons - found they didn't work very well just after you get out of the water (eg when someone wants to know where you'd been, or you wanted to plan the next dive).
David
Paul Morris
20-02-2006, 17:12
I would go for Suunto personally - the Aladdin ones were the main alternative when I got mine, but I didn't like the "lick your fingers" style buttons - found they didn't work very well just after you get out of the water (eg when someone wants to know where you'd been, or you wanted to plan the next dive).
Correct! I love my UWATEC SmartCOM, it gives me all the information I want underwater, download is brilliant (great profile, no interface required), but the wet contact buttons really are a real PITA. Try setting the O2 %age being bounced around on a wet RIB. :mad:
Right everyone, gather round, shield me from the waves, now who's got a nice dry tissue. Ok, nobody move its working 21...22....23...24.. Damn, its gone into dive mode again! :mad: :mad: What time is the next slack window? :)
shaunzxr
20-02-2006, 17:13
Choose the Gekko, same as Vyper You just cant download info to PC
Personally I like my stinger. :)
Personally I agree with Richard. I bought a Vyper 2 years ago as a Ocean Diver. I went for it as it gave the download facility and I, at the time, could not justify the extra £100 or so for the Vytec.
So far the Vyper is great, except when I forget to set the EAN % for a nitrox dive. I am sure I set it before going to Stoney last week but it had reverted back to 21% when looked again after getting to 3m. The download is great but I am still using ver 1.6 of the SDM
Richard : BTW Are you using version 2.3 yet ?
I am looking at doing Advanced Nitrox by end of this year and gas switching.
So only then could I do with the features of the Vytec........
I will keep looking on eBay...........
Regards
Nick
Emmsie-May
26-02-2006, 22:24
The Gekko. Try Days Diversified of Swansea.
David Walker
26-02-2006, 23:40
Correct! I love my UWATEC SmartCOM, it gives me all the information I want underwater, download is brilliant (great profile, no interface required), but the wet contact buttons really are a real PITA. Try setting the O2 %age being bounced around on a wet RIB. :mad:
Right everyone, gather round, shield me from the waves, now who's got a nice dry tissue. Ok, nobody move its working 21...22....23...24.. Damn, its gone into dive mode again! :mad: :mad: What time is the next slack window? :)
Hehe, brilliant! My only experience before I made my choice was the Uwatec D-Timers. Same buttons and stuff. I'd come out from a dive (as a trainee Ocean Diver at the time), the dive marshall would ask for my depth and time, so off I go licking my fingers, rubbing the contacts and doing anything I could to make it change to the log screen. Usually it would just not do anything... and then suddenly it would realise I was there and just cycle around and around for a few minutes until it got bored, then stop at a random point. Usually, after that, it would work :D Kind of puts you off spending £200+ on something with the same buttons though :(
David
David Walker
26-02-2006, 23:48
So far the Vyper is great, except when I forget to set the EAN % for a nitrox dive. I am sure I set it before going to Stoney last week but it had reverted back to 21% when looked again after getting to 3m.
Its a safety feature - defaults back to 21% after an hour or two. Means that you're not diving with the computer on 32% when you're on your afternoon dive having had an air top-off and forgot to change the mix in the computer. Safer to assume you're on air. But I always set it a bit early too and often forget to change it. :(
David
Richard Whitcombe
27-02-2006, 04:00
Richard : BTW Are you using version 2.3 yet ?
Im still using v1.6 for a few reasons. Firstly the earlier 2.x versions didnt like working with a RS232/serial interface and im far too lazy to bother building a USB interface despite having the schematic.
Secondly, after importing my dives and playing with it i found i really disliked the v2 software. It seems they went overboard on graphics and other things to make it look nice but at the same time sacrificed a lot of ease of use. Im stilling with 1.6 for the near future.
While on this subject, I'm also looking at buying a computer, and being a bit of a geek, would quite like the download facility, but ...... I have a Mac rather than a PC. Have done a bit of research, and UWATEC has software available, but it doesn't look like Sunnto do:( . Any Mac users out there that have been through this situation ???? With the comments above about the UWATEC comps, I am having doubts, so are there any other recommendations.
John Bantin
17-03-2006, 21:21
1) Buy a new one, not one that has been rejected for some reason.
2) I am not sure that it is possible to buy an air-only computer now. They are all nitrox compatible.
3) Read side-by-side reviews of the algorithms. The algorithm is the core function of any computer.
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