View Full Version : European UnderWater Federation Cert?
Hi, I would like to ask somebody that knows about this subject, this being the accreditation by the European UnderWater Federation and the fact that BSAC has not, up til now, registered itself. This is particularly important for BSAC Schools that want to operate inside Greece.
Living in Greece and waiting now for the new laws to come into force it has been pointed out to me by the Ministry of Merchant Marine that ONLY those organisations that are recognised by the EUF can work (Dive Center / Dive Schools) here.
Does anybody know anything about this and does BSAC have any intentions of getting the accreditation? This is the site and here its possible to see the 8 organisations that have had their training systems accepted by the EUF.
http://www.euf-certification.org/
Thanks for any info..........
Adrian Kelland
31-01-2006, 13:50
Last time I looked at this organisation, membership seemed to be predominantly the European arms of American agencies. Lack of recognition by this body probably has not been an issue. Think of all the agencies that are not members. CMAS probably represents more organisations.
However if the Greek government will only accept EUF recognition, then perhaps things might have to change. On the other hand, it could be worht getting the Greek government to look at CMAS too.
Unless the EUF thing is really about only enabling a limited group of agencies...
Adrian
Ben Panter
31-01-2006, 13:59
However if the Greek government will only accept EUF recognition, then perhaps things might have to change. On the other hand, it could be worht getting the Greek government to look at CMAS too.
Is BSAC in CMAS? I thought not - so probably we have to be recognised by someone like EUF to be able to have schools in Greece.
Ben
Adrian Kelland
31-01-2006, 14:02
Is BSAC in CMAS? I thought not - so probably we have to be recognised by someone like EUF to be able to have schools in Greece.
Ben
BSAC would have to have the syllabus and standards looked at. I wonder how much 'recognition' costs?
Keith Lawrence
31-01-2006, 14:13
BSAC would have to have the syllabus and standards looked at. I wonder how much 'recognition' costs?As with all things European - THAT is the problem! We have been involved with the EUF, the guy you need to speak to is Deric Ellerby (Council), I've got some stuff knocking around somewhere from a year or so back that Deric did, he's put a lot of work into this area.
But IIRC (don't quote me on this, I haven't checked back) there is a registration fee and it is not insubstantial, it was a damn good four figure sum at least with all of the work we would have to put in! There is the dilema, we're spending members money here - just what is the benefit to our members if we do go down that route? When we're spending members money the very first thing we look at is what are the benefits to our members and could the money be better spent elsewhere? That's what you've got Council members for :)
I honestly don't know whether we are registered or not or whether we're in the process of doing so - as I've said, ask Deric, that's who I would have to ask to answer your questions :)
HTH
Keith L
However if the Greek government will only accept EUF recognition, then perhaps things might have to change. On the other hand, it could be worth getting the Greek government to look at CMAS too.
Unless the EUF thing is really about only enabling a limited group of agencies...
Adrian
CMAS isn't recognised either..........And yes only those recognised by the EUF can work (Legally) in Greece..........Of course its a money decision and I can understand being accountable to your members............One way around it, I could imagine, and here Im only guessing. Are BSAC instructors allowed to work as instructors in other EU countries? By that I mean can a BSAC Instr open a diveshop say in Spain or Germany? Because if they can then there is a loophole. The EU law requires that any certificate of education be recognised in all member states............IF the person holding that certificate has actually worked in that profession in his member state country..........Damn I h8 this EU crap sometimes........:eek:
Anyway I have a meeting with an offical of the Ministry of Merchant Marine on Saturday, Its the PADI member forum here in Athens, I'll ask about BSAC and see if they can give me any answers...........
Chris Cherrington
31-01-2006, 14:32
If the website is anything to go by there's not much in it as far as I can see. The federation (http://www.euf.org.uk/) claims "the EUF directly represent over 3,000,000 divers, 5,000 clubs, 60,000 diving instructors and 1,000 diving schools. Recreational diving activities account for an estimated direct turnover of some 1,400 M ECU per annum"
Since the ECU is a defunct 16th century French currency I think they mean Euro......
There are words of utter wisdom like "Make your boats identifiable, this can help rescue agencies and shows you have nothing to hide."
LOL I'll take down the international flag for "drug smuggling" then....
Chris
Adrian Kelland
31-01-2006, 14:34
The EU law requires that any certificate of education be recognised in all member states............IF the person holding that certificate has actually worked in that profession in his member state country..........Damn I h8 this EU crap sometimes........:eek:
IIRC Greece has a bit of a poor record in this regard. Problems with Civil Engineers comes to mind. Could be wrong though.
Adrian
Chris Cherrington
31-01-2006, 14:35
... can a BSAC Instr open a diveshop say in Spain or Germany? ......
BSAC instructors do not work. They are voluntary unpaid people and tend not to open dive shops.
Chris
BSAC instructors do not work. They are voluntary unpaid people and tend not to open dive shops.
http://www.bsactravelclub.co.uk/schools/schoolstable.htm
If the website is anything to go by there's not much in it as far as I can see. The federation (http://www.euf.org.uk/) claims "the EUF directly represent over 3,000,000 divers, 5,000 clubs, 60,000 diving instructors and 1,000 diving schools. Recreational diving activities account for an estimated direct turnover of some 1,400 M ECU per annum"
Since the ECU is a defunct 16th century French currency I think they mean Euro......
There are words of utter wisdom like "Make your boats identifiable, this can help rescue agencies and shows you have nothing to hide."
LOL I'll take down the international flag for "drug smuggling" then....
Chris
ROFLMAO Chris I whole heartedly agree with you but somehow these are the guys that are pulling the strings. I would like to get a BSAC School going here in Greece but as things stand not much chance of that........Strange that of all the Training agencies I am a member of (PADI, CMAS and TDI) only PADI has got the accreditation to allow their Instr's to work legally...... hmmmm wonder who owns EUF:confused:
Adrian Kelland
31-01-2006, 14:41
BSAC instructors do not work. They are voluntary unpaid people and tend not to open dive shops.
Chris
Apart from those who own or work in schools etc. :)
It could be argued that the BSAC schools could/should contribute to EUF recognition, but if they are already PADI, what is the point.
Adrian
Adrian Kelland
31-01-2006, 14:41
hmmmm wonder who owns EUF:confused:
Nail on head.
Chris Cherrington
31-01-2006, 14:42
Yes I'm aware of the BSAC schools, but no-one sets up as BSAC only school do they? Our Greek friend seems keen to promote another one of his interests as well as his dive school.
Chris
Ben Panter
31-01-2006, 14:45
It would appear that the chap responsible is a Dr. Peter Jonas
c/o ON Austrian Standards Institute (from the EUF website). I don't know ON, is it an official body like DIN and British Standards?
Ben
Apart from those who own or work in schools etc. :)
It could be argued that the BSAC schools could/should contribute to EUF recognition, but if they are already PADI, what is the point.
Adrian
Adrian, to answer your question.........They would not be allowed to teach any BSAC training methods e.g. Though who would know is beyond me......Also there are a whole mess of laws that govern end suppliers (Training Agencies) and what they are allowed to do as regards even using teaching material from a non authorised agency...........
Yes I'm aware of the BSAC schools, but no-one sets up as BSAC only school do they? Our Greek friend seems keen to promote another one of his interests as well as his dive school.
Chris
Firstly Chris..........I'm NOT Greek........Im as British as you are if not more so. But thats not the point.
Now please would you explain what your comment means? (Plain English Please)!!:mad: I am not trying to promote anything here. I don't even have a Dive School Yet............
Chris Cherrington
31-01-2006, 14:51
Domain Name:EUF-CERTIFICATION.ORG
Created On:21-Oct-2004 13:28:06 UTC
Last Updated On:22-Oct-2005 01:39:11 UTC
Expiration Date:21-Oct-2006 13:28:06 UTC
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Chris Cherrington
31-01-2006, 14:56
Firstly Chris..........I'm NOT Greek........Im as British as you are if not more so. But thats not the point.
Now please would you explain what your comment means? (Plain English Please)!!:mad: I am not trying to promote anything here. I don't even have a Dive School Yet............
OK you said you're setting one up... And fair enough - nowt wrong with that at all....good luck with it.
As to the nationality sorry if I rubbed you up the wrong way as you haven't put your name I didn't know and just used the URL link in your profile to the dive shop... nothing meant by it (after all the Greeks are jolly nice folks).
Chris
Argo,
You might want to give these people a call - under useful info it says they are trying to set themselves up as a BSAC school and obviously Crete is part of Greece. Strangely BSAC has them down as a premier school on one part of the BSAC site and a resort centre (along with 3 others) on another part of the BSAC site
http://www.creteunderwatercenter.com/home.htm
http://www.bsactravelclub.co.uk/reports/crete.htm
Best of luck with your venture if you do start up any further progress on the new wrecks/diving areas opening up yet?
Rick
As with all things European - THAT is the problem! We have been involved with the EUF
I honestly don't know whether we are registered or not or whether we're in the process of doing so - as I've said, ask Deric, that's who I would have to ask to answer your questions :)
Keith L
This EUF looks quite amusing really. To me it looks like what 'IDEST' is for cylinder testing - a trade group . Tell everyone how importantant they are, get lots of people on your side and then others will have to Join or they will be disadvantaged. As far as I can see UF has nothing to do with the any Eurpean body.
I'm glad the BSAC is spending my money wisely. If the EUF does take off, and is a useful thing to belog to , I'm sure they will not refuse the BSAC's suscription fee.
On a similar note, a bloke in bath set up the 'Road safety 2000', which lobbies on saftey issues. When I delved deeper it appeared to have one member (him) but when he wrote letters to the local paper / mp's People took him more seriously as he looked like an organisation - rather than a bloke trying to get a speed limit installed in his village !
Adrian Kelland
31-01-2006, 16:35
This EUF looks quite amusing really. To me it looks like what 'IDEST' is for cylinder testing - a trade group . Tell everyone how importantant they are, get lots of people on your side and then others will have to Join or they will be disadvantaged. As far as I can see UF has nothing to do with the any Eurpean body.
I'm glad the BSAC is spending my money wisely. If the EUF does take off, and is a useful thing to belog to , I'm sure they will not refuse the BSAC's suscription fee.
On a similar note, a bloke in bath set up the 'Road safety 2000', which lobbies on saftey issues. When I delved deeper it appeared to have one member (him) but when he wrote letters to the local paper / mp's People took him more seriously as he looked like an organisation - rather than a bloke trying to get a speed limit installed in his village !
Perhaps BSAC should join up with the BSI and define what Advanced means in diving :D
Argo,
You might want to give these people a call - under useful info it says they are trying to set themselves up as a BSAC school and obviously Crete is part of Greece. Strangely BSAC has them down as a premier school on one part of the BSAC site and a resort centre (along with 3 others) on another part of the BSAC site
http://www.creteunderwatercenter.com/home.htm
http://www.bsactravelclub.co.uk/reports/crete.htm
Best of luck with your venture if you do start up any further progress on the new wrecks/diving areas opening up yet?
Rick
Rick, there is a PADI member forum on Sat 4th Feb where we will all learn Exactly what is required to open a School/Dive Center...... I have a lot of wrecks on the south coast of Crete that I want to get to, including a German Sub which I want to find of which I have only the long Lat position........Theres a lot of stuff to be found without annoying the Archeological society:D
Argo,
http://www.creteunderwatercenter.com/home.htm
http://www.bsactravelclub.co.uk/reports/crete.htm
Best of luck with your venture if you do start up any further progress on the new wrecks/diving areas opening up yet?
Rick
Yeah I know Pavlos from the CreteUnderWater Center very well we are good friends..........He runs a good shop and considering the fact that he has the Port Police on his neck all season he is doing well for himself.......I would also like to add that if anyone needs info on any dive center in Greece they can either PM or email me......... I've been here for the better part of 25 yrs on and off and now live here "full time" we (Instructors & shop owners) are a very close knit community and everybody knows everybody.......... So the offers there for all to use if they want............
BTW my email can be found in the profile.......
I sent them a email about 2 months ago with regards to the EUF in france. As of now I still have no answer. The French being the French it will take them years to sort it out and if the French don't want to do it they won't. To work in France you need the BEES 1st degree to teach and earn payment out of scuba. I have the EUF on my Padi Instructor card but its not much use with out the BEES 1st degree. I hope they can make the French change but I am not holding my breath.
Thanks :cool:
I sent them a email about 2 months ago with regards to the EUF in france. As of now I still have no answer. The French being the French it will take them years to sort it out and if the French don't want to do it they won't. To work in France you need the BEES 1st degree to teach and earn payment out of scuba. I have the EUF on my Padi Instructor card but its not much use with out the BEES 1st degree. I hope they can make the French change but I am not holding my breath.
Thanks :cool:
Why don't you just do a crossover to CMAS....... this would solve that problem..... I was in france working and they accepted my 2** CMAS Instr card that was done in Bulgaria :D
Will try and clarify things a bit. Firstly the reference standards are those published by the European Standards organisation, CEN, to which national standards bodies such as BSI and DIN belong. ON is the Austrian national standards body and was the lead organisation in the development of these standards. Subsequently ON has teamed with EUF to offer a validation process by which training agencies may have their training schemes certified for compliance with the standards. This involves ON in a significant amount of work, including inspection visits so cannot be undertaken for free. However considerable effort is made to ensure costs are kept to a minimum.
EUF is an open platform for European diver training agencies, not owned by anyone, simply a forum where non-profit national federations and profit organisations can meet together and hopefully protect the interests of recreational divers at a European level. Not surprisingly there are often issues that are shared in common by all divers and a European voice in such matters is beneficial. BSAC was a founder member of EUF and remains the UK representative. Other than the certification initiative there is no link with ON.
PADI were the first organisation to offer themselves up for validation and have been followed by a number of other organisations, including some federations. BSAC has started but not completed this process.
It may be worth noting that the European recreational diver training standards are currently under consideration for adoption by the world standards organisation, ISO and are very likely to be adopted. It is also worth noting that EVERY training organisation validated so far has had to modify its system in some way to achieve certification - it is far from being a rubber stamp.
Hope this is useful.
Deric
I have CMAS ** & Nitrox Instructor certs and CMAS diver certs you still need that BEES to teach scuba as a job in France.
Thanks
Adrian Kelland
31-01-2006, 19:50
...
BSAC has started but not completed this process.
...
Hope this is useful.
Deric
Thank you Deric, very useful. Any idea on the timescale for completion of the inspection process?
Adrian
Keith Lawrence
31-01-2006, 19:56
Will try and clarify things a bit. Ah! I forgot Deric was actually around - sorry Deric :o Ignore me (i.e. business as usual, I did put a 'health warning' on what I said) as Deric has been instrumental in all of this and he's been managing it on behalf of the BSAC. At this point I will bow out and defer to Deric.
Cheers
Keith L
Thank you Deric, very useful. Any idea on the timescale for completion of the inspection process?
Adrian
Deric.......... I also would like to say thank you for your time and the answer.
If you have any other information about this subject please keep me informed. My email is now active (No autoresponders, again sry Keith)...........
Greetings from Greece
DS aka Argo
Adrian - sorry, no idea - its an NDC budget/priority decision
Argo - will do - drop me an email
Keith - no problem, you know as much as me on likely future progress!
cheers
Deric
Chris Cherrington
31-01-2006, 23:11
James is quite correct (hello mate how's it going?) no BEES no work. That's the law in France and there are no exceptions.
Chris
Paul Renucci
01-02-2006, 01:14
Personally speaking if this is some legal dive regulation that the greeks are accepting then it ain't worth the paper it's written on. They don't have any law that recognises a tourist in that country in any event.
They can do what they like to you, including drowning, and you don't have a leg to stand on - ooops i mean fin :mad: .
We are regular's to the Greek islands - but I certainly wont dive there under their laws. As for the website I agree - there's little substance and probably all hot air advertising and scare mongering in order to try and force the world into submission - no chance.
Can't believe the greeks on this one - the last stupid thing they done was to arrest tourists for playing games on their mobile phones and psp's.
Do you remember that year? We do because we saw it in action :(
Personally speaking if this is some legal dive regulation that the greeks are accepting then it ain't worth the paper it's written on. They don't have any law that recognises a tourist in that country in any event.
They can do what they like to you, including drowning, and you don't have a leg to stand on - ooops i mean fin :mad: . :(
Some Pretty strong words. Especially about the drowning. Would you care to elaborate on this? Where? When? Who? and with which Dive Center? Does any country have laws to recognise tourists? ( please explain )
Admittedly the Greek laws leave a lot to be desired in some areas BUT having lived here for 25 yrs on and off I feel happy with the situation in General.........As for the diving laws:- if an accident happens at a LEGAL dive shop, which is required by law to have insurance, then the licence holder is responsible and can be heavily fined and / or imprisoned if he was responsible in any way for the accident.
Can't believe the greeks on this one - the last stupid thing they done was to arrest tourists for playing games on their mobile phones and psp's.
Do you remember that year? We do because we saw it in action :(
What happened here was really stupid if you mean the plane spotters? But if you go to another country even on holiday you have to abide by their laws........Just cos smoking dope is legal in Holland I don't think the British police would like it if the Dutch started smoking dope in England!! The offenders would be arrested!! Same thing here!!
Another thing to remember here is that the Government has changed and the present one is trying, from what I can see, to change some out of date laws so as to enable an almost non existent industry (Diving) to pick up..........
Any change from the way things were is great, as up til now in the whole of Greece only 178 divesites were free to dive. This has now been changed.......... So perhaps Paul you'll come again and maybe you'll change your mind about diving here. As for Equipment, what can I say. I'm sure there are bad dive shops in GB as well...........?
James is quite correct (hello mate how's it going?) no BEES no work. That's the law in France and there are no exceptions.
Chris
I worked in two dive centres in france, one in 1995 and one in 1996. My understanding was that a centrs had to have one BEES1, but as long as you were MF1 equivalent (CMAS moniteur **) you could work at that centre.
Whille working at ooe centre I was investigated by the police twice !. Once as I was getting out of the water - they wanted to see my certification as I was working for money. The second time, we had a double death while I was diving on the boat and had to give a statement in the poilce station. On neither occasion was I told that I could not work. This was 10 years ago and may be thigns changed (especially as the accident we had at work involved a not BEES)
May be things have tightened up since then - but even in those days people used to say "you have to have a Brevet Etat to work in france"
May be it just the classical french trick of having lots of rules and not applying them (unlike the UK which tries very hard to apply every riule it can find)
I'm sure Mike Busitilli could give the current position.
Tony
Chris Cherrington
01-02-2006, 09:23
May be things have tightened up since then .....
May be it just the classical french trick of having lots of rules and not applying them ....
I think it sort of varies a bit from time to time :D
Naturellement......
Chris
Chris Cherrington
01-02-2006, 09:32
Any change from the way things were is great, as up til now in the whole of Greece only 178 divesites were free to dive. This has now been changed..........
This is good news. Greece seems to me to be an undervalued place for diving, mainly due to the regulations, while at the same time a popular (and inexpensive) holiday destination.
Why not tell us some more on a new thread (this one is perhaps not the best place...) I'm sure no-one would think a report to give us all the up-to-date info was conected to your dive business (and if they do blame me ;) I'm looking for a good winter venue and the Canaries are a bit of a long flight)
Chris
This is good news. Greece seems to me to be an undervalued place for diving, mainly due to the regulations, while at the same time a popular (and inexpensive) holiday destination.
Why not tell us some more on a new thread (this one is perhaps not the best place...) I'm sure no-one would think a report to give us all the up-to-date info was conected to your dive business (and if they do blame me ;) I'm looking for a good winter venue and the Canaries are a bit of a long flight)
Chris
Your right Chris.........
Be more than glad to supply BSAC forum with a report of Diving in Greece and the new regulations. I don't want to open such a thread though..........might be wrongly construed.....When did you say you wanted to come :rolleyes: ?
Chris Cherrington
01-02-2006, 10:09
Your right Chris.........
Be more than glad to supply BSAC forum with a report of Diving in Greece and the new regulations. I don't want to open such a thread though..........might be wrongly construed.....When did you say you wanted to come :rolleyes: ?
I have been looking at venues for the winter months, say November through March. The Med is not reliable (Mistral and all that) and Northern Spain tends to stop operations as they think its cold (its minus 4 here today and we were diving below the ice at the weekend - cold??)
There is a big gap in the market here as many UK divers want to dive in the winter but there just aren't the venues.
I would imagine (but I have done no research) there are some good deals to be had on travel and accomodation to Greece in what is the low season for mass tourism? I knew that the diving in Greece was strictly controlled and therefore never bothered to look. If things have changed you would, I am sure, be doing us all a big favour by updating us, if that helps your business then a double positive - life can work out right sometimes :D
Chris
I have been looking at venues for the winter months, say November through March. The Med is not reliable (Mistral and all that) and Northern Spain tends to stop operations as they think its cold (its minus 4 here today and we were diving below the ice at the weekend - cold??)
There is a big gap in the market here as many UK divers want to dive in the winter but there just aren't the venues.
I would imagine (but I have done no research) there are some good deals to be had on travel and accomodation to Greece in what is the low season for mass tourism? I knew that the diving in Greece was strictly controlled and therefore never bothered to look. If things have changed you would, I am sure, be doing us all a big favour by updating us, if that helps your business then a double positive - life can work out right sometimes :D
Chris
As I said..........I only need 1 person to ask about diving in Greece and I'll gladly supply the information required.........BUT on another thread:)
Paul Renucci
01-02-2006, 10:49
Hi Argo - (embarrased Paul)
Thanks for helping with my ignorance on the points you make. I ran into a situation in Zante which was admittedly not related to diving but impacted upon with the fact that under greek law tourists are not recognised even with witnesses and video, nor was I. It has left me with serious concerns about the diving situation in Greece.
I nearly ended up spending eight weeks in one of their jails over a yob that clashed with me, much to the distress of my wife. That experience left me with little faith as to what would happen if a diving accident occured.
However your positive observations on insurance cover are welcome but it's going to take time to get my confidence back with the greek legal situation - because at the end of the day if it's a greek instructor in a greek diving shop - well I'll be giving he / she a miss for sure.
Worse, when we got home, and stared talking about our incident, we were stunned at the number of people who had experienced the hard hand of Greek law including one couple who's daughter had been left for dead on the roadside and tragically died in hospital - they got the person but no prosectution was carried forward despite every attempt by the parents in what was here in Cumbria a high profile case.
I wasn't having a go at BSAC schools over there - I'm more than happy on that score and I do appologise for my temper when i read that the Greeks were involved with these new laws that were mentioned - Had BSAC been the instigator of these new laws things would have been much more promising from my perspective.
I also note that Chris Sherrington mentions that diving in Greece is strickly controlled - I'm feeling better and a little bit more confident.
Franklyn
30-05-2006, 23:24
It would appear that the chap responsible is a Dr. Peter Jonas
c/o ON Austrian Standards Institute (from the EUF website). I don't know ON, is it an official body like DIN and British Standards?
Ben
Yes, same as BS, DIN, NSAI, ANSI... ON stands for Austrian Norming-institute. As it is a European standard, you can buy it from your local standardisation body. If you do intend to buy the standard, it pays to shop around the national bodies for substantial savings!
Cheers, Franklyn
Chris aka divingchef
31-05-2006, 11:59
I have been looking at venues for the winter months, say November through March. The Med is not reliable (Mistral and all that) and Northern Spain tends to stop operations as they think its cold (its minus 4 here today and we were diving below the ice at the weekend - cold??)
There is a big gap in the market here as many UK divers want to dive in the winter but there just aren't the venues.
I would imagine (but I have done no research) there are some good deals to be had on travel and accomodation to Greece in what is the low season for mass tourism? I knew that the diving in Greece was strictly controlled and therefore never bothered to look. If things have changed you would, I am sure, be doing us all a big favour by updating us, if that helps your business then a double positive - life can work out right sometimes :D
Chris
Ehrrrrrrr.....excuse me
We dont close down or get blown out.
And are in the process of setting up a BSAC resort.
And the water temp is neaver below 14C but the max is 20 C
Today the air temp is 30C
Chris;)
Chris aka divingchef
31-05-2006, 12:03
Hi, I would like to ask somebody that knows about this subject, this being the accreditation by the European UnderWater Federation and the fact that BSAC has not, up til now, registered itself. This is particularly important for BSAC Schools that want to operate inside Greece.
Living in Greece and waiting now for the new laws to come into force it has been pointed out to me by the Ministry of Merchant Marine that ONLY those organisations that are recognised by the EUF can work (Dive Center / Dive Schools) here.
Does anybody know anything about this and does BSAC have any intentions of getting the accreditation? This is the site and here its possible to see the 8 organisations that have had their training systems accepted by the EUF.
http://www.euf-certification.org/
Thanks for any info..........
Hi
I know this is probably a bit late but try talking to Mike Clack at HQ
BSAC has started but not completed this process.
Is there any upadate on this?
Thanks
Alison Boler
27-09-2006, 10:37
Well, I had some very pleasant diving in Corfu this summer with a school there and you can read the report amongst others here.
http://www.bsactravelclub.co.uk/reports
Argo - send me any trip reports you would care to write and I would be glad to publish them on the BSAC Travel Club website. Send me the text and any pix seperately.
All the best
Ben Panter
09-02-2007, 15:07
Just to go full circle on this, have a peek at the BSAC press release on the matter here:
http://www.bsac.org/uploads/documents/euf_press_release.pdf
(Short version, we're now accredited. Well done to all involved!)
Ben
If Ocean Diver is Level 2, what on earth is Level 1...
and if DL is Level 3 then where do AD and FCD 'fit'...and SD for that matter, 2.5?
If OWI is Level 2, what happens about AI and NI and what is a Level 1 Instructor?
Loads of information at www.euf.eu, but what's it all fundamentally about?
David.
Ben Panter
09-02-2007, 16:38
This might be a better link for info:
European Underwater Federation Certification Body (http://www.euf-certification.org/)
All levels explained.
Ben
Just to go full circle on this, have a peek at the BSAC press release on the matter here:
http://www.bsac.org/uploads/documents/euf_press_release.pdf
(Short version, we're now accredited. Well done to all involved!)
Ben
And special thanks to Deric Ellerby, the Council Member who has been Project Managing this on our behalf.
Thanks Derek.
Edward
Richard Whitcombe
10-02-2007, 15:23
If Ocean Diver is Level 2, what on earth is Level 1...
Possibly something like the PADI "scuba diver" which doesn;t allow anyone to dive without being supervised by a divemaster or above.
This might be a better link for info:
European Underwater Federation Certification Body (http://www.euf-certification.org/)
All levels explained.
Ben
I was at Eccy Delph last weekend on Dennis Wigg's OWIC. One of the visitors was taking photos of everything.
We must have impressed them. However there was some surprise, on their part, as to why diver training was continued after OWI was reached. Claire Peddie gave them a good account of the BSAC way.
Regards
Nick
Rhodus Aquanaut
11-02-2007, 11:08
For those of you who are interested and I am one of those, looks like from the 9th February 2007 we will be accredited as members of the EUF.
Happy days, looking forward to hols at my local BSAC dive centre in GREECE now, preferably Rhodes. :D :D :D :D
http://www.bsac.org/uploads/documents/euf_press_release.pdf
Rhodus :D :D
Only one other question, what is the BS EN number for AD, FCD, AI, NI or is that still to come.
Very well done to all concerned, another watery step further into the world of diving
Adrian Kelland
11-02-2007, 11:44
Only one other question, what is the BS EN number for AD, FCD, AI, NI or is that still to come.
As far as I can tell from the UEF sites, Instructor 2 is the top. I also have the impression that it is a linear progression from DL to Instructor 1.
More practically, I wonder how this will be implemented by the BSAC. Is a qual card going to be issued on request like the CMAS card. Will it replace the CMAS card - CMAS don't appear to be involved in the UEF? Most of the agencies with UEF certification appear to be the well known commercial ones.
Adrian
Rhodus Aquanaut
11-02-2007, 15:08
It will be interesting to see how or if this develops further, expands on both the diver grades and instructor qualifications across the board and how cross-overs are applied via the various agancies.
Rhodus
Adrian Kelland
11-02-2007, 15:47
It will be interesting to see how or if this develops further, expands on both the diver grades and instructor qualifications across the board and how cross-overs are applied via the various agancies.
Rhodus
The full list of existing certifications is listed here (http://www.on-norm.at/publish/1347.html?&L=1). It is easy to see what grades meet the various EN standards.
The certification of standard is for 5 years.
Adrian
Don Tovey
14-02-2007, 17:18
Hi everyone,
Am I just a bit tight fisted or tired of more self perpetuating orgaisations.
This to me seems like a way to start an organisation where the organisers earn a very good salary even though the organisation itself is non profit making.
Surely BSAC, PADI , CMAS & others dont need to be regulated by someone else.
Its the same old thing, more red tape & more money to fork out.
Does this new organisation train divers as well or just live off the backs of those who have already qualified.
happy diving guys,
Tight fisted of Leeds
Hi everyone,
Am I just a bit tight fisted or tired of more self perpetuating orgaisations.
This to me seems like a way to start an organisation where the organisers earn a very good salary even though the organisation itself is non profit making.
Surely BSAC, PADI , CMAS & others dont need to be regulated by someone else.
Its the same old thing, more red tape & more money to fork out.
Does this new organisation train divers as well or just live off the backs of those who have already qualified.
happy diving guys,
Tight fisted of Leeds
Hi Don,
BSAC has been forced to acquire this accreditation, so you may continue to dive in EU countries.
Edward
Don Tovey
14-02-2007, 17:53
Thanks for the Info Edward.
Its a pity BSAC has been forced to do this.
There are hundreds of BSAC instructors & Members who give up their free time to train others to dive for no reward. It would be interesting to know how much the administrators of the EUF earn from monitoring other peoples hard work.
Happy Diving
Chris aka divingchef
14-02-2007, 18:42
Hi Don,
BSAC has been forced to acquire this accreditation, so you may continue to dive in EU countries.
Edward
Edward
Don't you mean some EU countries !
In Spain it is not recognized as an official accreditation.
There is a lot of debate on this subject as it flyes against current legislation.
Its a good thing because it would legalese the likes of PADI & SSI etc
But there Will be a lot of resistance from FEDAS.
Ill keep you posted.
Chris
Adrian Kelland
14-02-2007, 18:59
Edward
Don't you mean some EU countries !
In Spain it is not recognized as an official accreditation.
There is a lot of debate on this subject as it flyes against current legislation.
Its a good thing because it would legalese the likes of PADI & SSI etc
But there Will be a lot of resistance from FEDAS.
Ill keep you posted.
Chris
CMAS don't appear to be members of the EUF - certified or not.
Chris aka divingchef
14-02-2007, 19:14
CMAS don't appear to be members of the EUF - certified or not.
If CMAS get EUF acreditation,,,that will really put the proberbial gato amongs the palomas ! :eek:
Chris aka divingchef
14-02-2007, 19:19
However if the Greek government will only accept EUF recognition, then perhaps things might have to change. On the other hand, it could be worht getting the Greek government to look at CMAS too.
Adrian
Just been looking at the CMAS site and noticed that Greece was a founder member back in 1959
Chris
Adrian Kelland
14-02-2007, 19:56
Just been looking at the CMAS site and noticed that Greece was a founder member back in 1959
Chris
BSAC were founder members too IIRC - that doesn't seem to matter.
Edward
Don't you mean some EU countries !
In Spain it is not recognized as an official accreditation.
There is a lot of debate on this subject as it flyes against current legislation.
Its a good thing because it would legalese the likes of PADI & SSI etc
But there Will be a lot of resistance from FEDAS.
Ill keep you posted.
Chris
No, all EU countries. This has been decided by the EU Parliament and the standard is based on the Austrian one.
As a mater of interest CMAS does not award qualifications, but sets the equivalent for recognition between individual National bodies - for the UK the SSA.
Edward
Adrian Kelland
14-02-2007, 21:05
No, all EU countries. This has been decided by the EU Parliament and the standard is based on the Austrian one.
As a mater of interest CMAS does not award qualifications, but sets the equivalent for recognition between individual National bodies - for the UK the SSA.
Edward
Surely the EN standards make this less of an issue?
I realise we are in the area now where both BSAC DL and AD will have the same EN level and that there will still be some equivalency discussion, but some of the CMAS aspects have been removed apart from the politicing.
No, all EU countries. This has been decided by the EU Parliament and the standard is based on the Austrian one.
As a mater of interest CMAS does not award qualifications, but sets the equivalent for recognition between individual National bodies - for the UK the SSA.
Edward
Who's going to tell the French then !!!!!!
Chris aka divingchef
14-02-2007, 22:57
As a mater of interest CMAS does not award qualifications, but sets the equivalent for recognition between individual National bodies - for the UK the SSA.
Edward
Exactly and are the only ones recognised by the current law.
So what I'm trying to say is on the one hand, take an example PADI , are not recognised by CMAS and therefore FEDAS, but on the other hand the EU say they are !
oh by the way typo SAA !
Chris
Chris aka divingchef
20-02-2007, 20:51
No, all EU countries. This has been decided by the EU Parliament and the standard is based on the Austrian one.
As a mater of interest CMAS does not award qualifications, but sets the equivalent for recognition between individual National bodies - for the UK the SSA.
Edward
Hi Edward
As promised
This quarters FEGAS dive mag has 3 and a half pages on this, pointing out all the different levels of EN numbers.
But it doesn't mention EUF as been the accreditation agency but CEN.
I had a look at their web site and the only diving related topic I could find is http://www.cen.eu/cenorm/news/pressreleases/diving.asp
Makes interesting reading.
And AENOR http://www.aenor.es/desarrollo/normalizacion/normas/resultadobuscnormas.asp
That you have to pay !
So were still none the wiser !
Chris
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