Freediving

[Bob Healey]

If there are so many keen and enthusiastic freedivers, true freedivers not snorkellers, within the BSAC why haven't they formed a Freediving Section alongside Scuba and Snorkelling? For the true Freediving fanatic.

Bob:cool:

[Adrian Kelland]

If there are so many keen and enthusiastic freedivers, true freedivers not snorkellers, within the BSAC why haven't they formed a Freediving Section alongside Scuba and Snorkelling? For the true Freediving fanatic.

Bob:cool:
Maybe they don't have to 'form' anything. They just go and do it - no hastles.

Adrian

[Janos]

If there are so many keen and enthusiastic freedivers, true freedivers not snorkellers, within the BSAC why haven't they formed a Freediving Section alongside Scuba and Snorkelling?

Ok Bob I'll bite. Why do you think that there are so many keen and enthusiastic freedivers?

Janos

[Ben Panter]

If there are so many keen and enthusiastic freedivers, true freedivers not snorkellers, within the BSAC why haven't they formed a Freediving Section alongside Scuba and Snorkelling? For the true Freediving fanatic.

I think you might be taking people's responses out of context again Bob. You asked what might get people involved in a non-scuba dive context, and Free Diving was one of the answers you got. Nobody claimed to be an expert in freediving, or even know much about it... just that we'd be interested in trying it, and that it might boost numbers. Is that what you asked, or did I miss something?

You're getting responses from scuba divers, since for whatever reason there are very few snorkellers participating in the fora at the moment. Maybe there are some BSAC members who are heavily into freediving - perhaps as the Snorkel (or non scuba?) representative on council you'll know who those people might be? Find them, and you've found people far more qualified than me to write a Freediving SDC (although as mentioned on the other thread I'm dead keen to try one once it's there and help out along the way!).

Ben

[Nigel Hewitt]

If there are so many keen and enthusiastic freedivers, true freedivers not snorkellers, within the BSAC why haven't they formed a Freediving Section alongside Scuba and Snorkelling? For the true Freediving fanatic.Well I only know me and some guys who aren't BSAC.
So what would a freedive section do for us?

Scuba I'm a member of a club and so I have access to boats, a compressor, a pool, oxygen if I needed it and and endless supply of buddies.

Freediving?....

Perhaps I need somebody to explain the current snorkeling system to me or is somebody going to tell me I shouldn't be going to 25m because I'm only crossed over as an Ocean Snorkler?

[Neil R]

As far as i know , and i might be wrong , there isn't a depth limit for snorkelling . We do teach that you DON'T Hyperventilate :eek: before doing a snorkel dive , to try and prologe your time underwater !

[Bob Healey]

I think you might be taking people's responses out of context again Bob. You asked what might get people involved in a non-scuba dive context, and Free Diving was one of the answers you got. Nobody claimed to be an expert in freediving, or even know much about it... just that we'd be interested in trying it, and that it might boost numbers. Is that what you asked, or did I miss something?

You're getting responses from scuba divers, since for whatever reason there are very few snorkellers participating in the fora at the moment. Maybe there are some BSAC members who are heavily into freediving - perhaps as the Snorkel (or non scuba?) representative on council you'll know who those people might be? Find them, and you've found people far more qualified than me to write a Freediving SDC (although as mentioned on the other thread I'm dead keen to try one once it's there and help out along the way!).

Ben
I didn't ask, WOZ did, just interested in the responses.

Bob

[Ben Panter]

Sorry Bob, should have been clearer. I was talking in the context of other current threads in the snorkelling forum.

[Nigel Hewitt]

As far as i know , and i might be wrong , there isn't a depth limit for snorkelling . We do teach that you DON'T Hyperventilate :eek: before doing a snorkel dive , to try and prologe your time underwater !Interesting. I assume you do some sort of breath up before going deeper.

What about packing? If I just do a deep breath I can't clear at 15m. With packing, pause-more-pause-more etc. I can get to 25+ before my mask/ears call time.

What about time between dives?

Or am I going the wrong way and snorkeling doesn't think in terms of getting down in among it but picking your site so you don't need to. Hence depth/time aren't a problem and there are other considerations that are obvious to a snorkeler but I'm not seeing? I am hardly a trained free-diver. I did one experience weekend at the SETT and have just gone diving since. My ignorance is probably amazing. A friend and I dived a warm water 18m wreck on breathholds using the stuff we were taught including taking it in turns and the surface into one another's arms trick in case you've overcooked it and samba. I was thinking that I need to learn more but BSAC hadn't occurred to me.

[allanc]

If there are so many keen and enthusiastic freedivers, true freedivers not snorkellers, within the BSAC why haven't they formed a Freediving Section alongside Scuba and Snorkelling? For the true Freediving fanatic.

Bob:cool:


They have not got much for snorkelling never mind free diving.

[iain aitchison]

Dear Bob,

free diving is for me just that - no rules, no clubs, no qualifications. A bit like serious climbing - you know what you have done and you know you did it for you and why. Nothing to prove. You were there on the day and you just did it.

regards
Iain

[Bob Healey]

Interesting. I assume you do some sort of breath up before going deeper.

What about packing? If I just do a deep breath I can't clear at 15m. With packing, pause-more-pause-more etc. I can get to 25+ before my mask/ears call time.

What about time between dives?

Or am I going the wrong way and snorkeling doesn't think in terms of getting down in among it but picking your site so you don't need to. Hence depth/time aren't a problem and there are other considerations that are obvious to a snorkeler but I'm not seeing? I am hardly a trained free-diver. I did one experience weekend at the SETT and have just gone diving since. My ignorance is probably amazing. A friend and I dived a warm water 18m wreck on breathholds using the stuff we were taught including taking it in turns and the surface into one another's arms trick in case you've overcooked it and samba. I was thinking that I need to learn more but BSAC hadn't occurred to me.
The only technique that I know that is taught to extend dive time is slowly "whistling" under water, reduces the urge to breathe. Would love the opportunity to learn more techniques but only for time under water not depth, we will leave depth to the scuba divers, there's plenty to see between 10 metres and the surface.

Bob

[Nigel Hewitt]

Would love the opportunity to learn more techniques but only for time under water not depth, we will leave depth to the scuba divers, there's plenty to see between 10 metres and the surface.Interesting. Try swallowing. Your body assumes that if something is being swallowed breathing could be bad news as you might choke so it kicks the clock back a bit. The normal worry is that if you are pulling tricks and ascending from deep you might Samba (shallow water blackout) so you realy do need to be coming up into the hands of your buddy.

I'm working round to doing another course soon. The more I dive the more I realise I want to know. I may be getting somewhere on scuba/ss diving but on freediving I'm an absolute novice. Like zilch rescue skills other than watching one demo.

[Eugene Farrell]

Are we not confusing two things here?

Freediving has entered the realm of extreme sports, teaching and competing in depth competition with and without ballast, and static breath holding. This is not the same sport we are teaching within BSAC, where we do teach limited breath hold diving as a sport.

There are several training organisations out there teaching freediving, including IANTD who teach:
Snorkel/Skin Diver (surface to 15ft/5m)
Open Water Freediver (max. 33ft/10m)
Advanced Freediver (max. 66ft/20m)
Master Freediver Course (max. 99ft/30m)

I don't think we want to move into the competitive territory, but there are techniques from Yoga and visualisation which can help to "train" extended breath holding. Maybe we should be looking at some of these?

IMHO there are two audiences, kids and adults, these can be subdivided in to different segments. Young kids might be attracted to snorkelling as a fun thing, to gain water confidence, get trained and achive fun rewards in the shape of qualifications. Older kids have different needs, moving into real achievements with proper qualifications, extending to open water and rescue training.

I think our material is aimed at younger kids, and the fun stuff. I would agree older kids are very savvy, their needs are different and our appeal looks "child-like" to them.

As for adults, I am not sure we really do reach them at all. Snorkelling is something you do on your holidays isn't it? Surely you dont need to be qualified!:p

So what we need to do is find out who the customer is, segement them and address their needs seperately.

[Andy Wade]

Are we not confusing two things here?

Freediving has entered the realm of extreme sports, teaching and competing in depth competition with and without ballast, and static breath holding. This is not the same sport we are teaching within BSAC, where we do teach limited breath hold diving as a sport.

There are several training organisations out there teaching freediving, including IANTD who teach:
Snorkel/Skin Diver (surface to 15ft/5m)
Open Water Freediver (max. 33ft/10m)
Advanced Freediver (max. 66ft/20m)
Master Freediver Course (max. 99ft/30m)

I don't think we want to move into the competitive territory, but there are techniques from Yoga and visualisation which can help to "train" extended breath holding. Maybe we should be looking at some of these?


Yeah, you might be right there.
There's some stuff on the BSAC Wiki about learning to control breathing through these methods.
It's here:
http://bsacforum.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Heavy_Breathing

[Cornholio]

...true freedivers not snorkellers...

Hello! I'm new here, although I qualified as a BSAC Open Water snorkeller more years ago than I care to admit to.

What is the difference between a freediver and a snorkeller? Sorry, I'm honestly not trying to be difficult. I once heard a definition that went some thing like "Snorkelling is swimming on the surface whilst breathing through a snorkel. Freediving is swimming under the water without the aid of breathing apparatus." I wasn't quite convinced by that.

I've courted SCUBA a few times over the years, but have never really taken to it. I guess I've always considered myself to be a snorkeller, although I like to hang out at the kind of depths that SCUBA divers frequent. Does that make me a freediver?

When I did my snorkel training I was told that I must never hold my breath for more than 3 minutes. As I now hold it for twice that time am I a freediver?

I guess my question is “what would the difference be between BSAC Snorkelling and BSAC Freediving”?

Some people may see freediving as being a sport of records; who can dive the deepest, swim the furthest, hold the longest. However, I've been hanging out on a freediving forum for a long time and there are a lot of people there who, like me, just want to chill out in the water without the bulky kit.

Maybe snorkelling and freediving are one and the same thing. I must say, though, that I would quite like to see a BSAC course that covers the more ‘extreme’ forms of breath-hold diving.

[Carol]

on breathholds using the stuff we were taught including taking it in turns and the surface into one another's arms trick in case you've overcooked it and samba. I was thinking that I need to learn more but BSAC hadn't occurred to me.[/QUOTE]

This is a completely different skill to normal snorkelling.
I joined (for an evening) a freediving club at Edinburgh University a few years ago and realised that it *can* be very dangerous and that when training, you MUST have a buddy very close by. Not everyone will understand the term "samba"
If you dont survive a samba you die!
There is a website called http://www.deeperblue.net/
which goes into techniques in the forums.
But, hey, guys..... if you're young, fit and can hold your breath to get down to 25m go for it - lucky devils!
Carol

[David Tombs]

I can add nothing to the debate as such. I am a keen BSAC diver,who has moved into the mine diving world via TDI training. I have mainly dived in the UK but with the ''usual'' addition of warm water holiday diving that began to pale. I usually added Snorkelling with my daughters for fun,education etc. I came back yesterday from Sharm,not diving,but simply Snorkelling with my youngest daughter who has finished a snorkelling course in the club.I have to say it was a joy,she is naturally good at it anyhow,but the course added so much for her. To see her fin down to the reefs,hold her position,and take pictures before returning to the surface was really great. It extended my love of being underwater,and in that environment made me prefer to snorkel than dive! The look on the trainee scuba divers was a picture!
But what seems to be clear is that even in thisl evel of snorkelling you have to be fitter,have better control over breathing,pehaps even better awairness and confidence than when scuba diving. But to be able to stay under for two or three minutes must give such a sense of freedom. Pehaps I will not go to stoney just to practice scuba skills in future!

[sharkhunter]

I read the "freediving" post debate with much interest.

I tend to agree with what Eugene has to say, that freediving is not what BSAC is all about.

Ok, you can teach some techniques that may help and would benefit scuba divers and snorkellers alike, but how can you teach someone to be "at one with the water", a spiritual thing, an instinct that is still within some of us from when we first evolved from the sea. Natural Freedivers believe we were originally dolphins and this is why man has this special bond with these magnificent creatures.

A freediver feels more at home in the water than on land. It is their sanctuary the place where they are at peace, and this is what freediving is all about, NOT how deep you can go or how long you can stay there. How can you teach this to someone who doesn't already have this natural instinct?

I have been a BSAC diver since the 1980's, and skin diving (freediving) since I was old enough to swim and even at the age of 46 I still sometimes freedive down to 30m + to compose and take a photo before returning to the surface. I have never been trained to freedive, and yet I know how to do it, .....it comes from within. ;)

[David Tombs]

Well said! There is a certain enjoyment of the equipment and mastery of technique in scuba,but you also feel pehaps a little distant from the water because of it. For me I agree with the comment re feeling more at home in the water than out sometimes,there are joys in both.

[Nick Stevens ASI 400]

Folks,

Freediving is quite a different discipline to snorkelling. But many elements are common to the two. AIDA, the governing body for freediving has many diferent grades that all divers are 'free' (pardon the pun) to get involved with. Infact it has been shown to improve and reduce your air consumption utilising the relaxation techniques they use before a dive. So it could be a benefit for all divers to have a go.

I run the Kingston & Elmbridge Junior Snorkellers Club and recently had a freedive instructor, who I had befriended, come down the club to give the kids some pointers. Not only were they absolutely hooked, but I saw them develop massively in only a few sessions! Their confidence in the water grew, and they were so relaxed that their breath holds extended up to almost three minutes. BSAC only require 30 sec breath holds for the snorkel diver qualification (sports diver equiv) Ideal for a snorkeller!

I recommend anyone have a go. It makes a nice change to humping kit on to a boat and is cheaper. Not to mention it helps out your diving when you are doing scuba.

check out www.notanx.com (http://www.notanx.com) for the guy who helped us. Marcus is British Champion in his particular discipline. He is a BSAC member too...