View Full Version : If you want to attract and retain people to BSAC snorkelling...
Call it freediving.
It's all about image. Snorkelling is, to the general public, bobbing about on the surface in Malaga in a £5 snorkelling set from the beach shop or something to do with the kids.
Freediving is all fancy long fins, low volume masks, meditation and glamerous blondes doing silly things.
It's like Technical diving and Recreational diving. 99% of the diving in the UK is recreational but stick "Technical" or "Twinset" somewhere in the title and people think it's something special.
So- ditch the Snorkelling completely. Not what BSAC wants to hear, I'm sure, but if BSAC wants this snorkelling thing to fly, then they need to approach it from a completely different angle. After all, if you were in the pub and told someone you were a "snorkeller" they would laugh. But if you told them you were a "freediver a bit like that Tanya Streeter except possibly not quite as good looking in a wetsuit" they might just buy you a pint and ask a bit more.
It's all in the name.
Bob Healey
25-01-2006, 12:29
Unfortunately they are different sports and trade description might just come into play. But would be interested in what other sensible names members can come up with. If we were PADI we would be skin divers, which has a completely different connuctation in some minds. Mmm could improve membership though until they found out it was Snorkelling. LOL
Bob
Unfortunately they are different sports and trade description might just come into play. But would be interested in what other sensible names members can come up with. If we were PADI we would be skin divers, which has a completely different connuctation in some minds. Mmm could improve membership though until they found out it was Snorkelling. LOL
BobYes. I know they are different. And you know they are different. But if you want to sell something, you have to fancy it up. Like PADI "Advanced Open Water". Sounds great. Advanced? Hahahahahahaha pull the other one. But it's marketed well- PADI know how to do that.
I don't think that Trades Description would care about the difference between snorkelling and freediving as they are so similar. Just make it a progressive thing- start off with a basic course, introducing snorkelling techniques. Then an intermediate with more freediving. Then an advanced with nothing but freediving.
Do it this way, and BSAC will attract members. Stick with "snorkelling", and people will continue to snigger. Who wants to be a "snorkel member"? No self-respecting teenager. Who wants to be a "freediving member"? Sounds much cooler. You could be a "sport freediver" then an "advanced freediver" then a "1st class freediver". Sounds great, that does. I'd want to be an "advanced freediver". It would get me more beers on club night.
http://www.sfdj.com/sand/freedive.html
First google hit on free diving looks similar to snorkelling to me
If you define Free diving as diving without a cylinder the snorkelling is free diving, it doesn't have to be all about 'no limits', 'constant weight' etc just doing some exploring of a reef is free diving if you do it without taking an air supply with you.
Paul Watts
25-01-2006, 13:21
Unfortunately they are different sports and trade description might just come into play. But would be interested in what other sensible names members can come up with. If we were PADI we would be skin divers, which has a completely different connuctation in some minds. Mmm could improve membership though until they found out it was Snorkelling. LOL
Bob
It's called Marketing.... Woz is absolutely correct. I can't imagine Trade Description having anything to do with it, a free diving association might have but hey, competion!
As Woz says, stick with a similar hierachy structure, ocean, sports etc... Our membership will soar... You know he's right :eek:
Bob Healey
25-01-2006, 13:27
Perhaps it comes down to marketing? No where near is spent on Snorkelling as Scuba, look at the Dive Shows hardly a mention, if at all, yet it is a large money earner for the Club.
Bob
Bob Healey
25-01-2006, 13:30
It's called Marketing.... Woz is absolutely correct. I can't imagine Trade Description having anything to do with it, a free diving association might have but hey, competion!
As Woz says, stick with a similar hierachy structure, ocean, sports etc... Our membership will soar... You know he's right :eek:
See the other Branch of this posting about the marketing of Snorkelling. Tell me the solution, a couple of voices for snorkelling are not being heard by the multitude.
Bob
Perhaps it comes down to marketing? No where near is spent on Snorkelling as Scuba, look at the Dive Shows hardly a mention, if at all, yet it is a large money earner for the Club.
BobYou don't need alot of kit to freedive. But one of the most popular talks and celebs at the show was Tanya Streeter. Associate "BSAC Freediving" with that and you are laughing. Mention "BSAC Snorkelling" and people will look skywards and start to giggle. Kids don't want a cartoon character with big feet and a silly mask. Well maybe the 5 year olds do. But get to 8+ and they want PSP's, mobiles and stuff. Or than new Motorola PEBL. So make BSAC Freediving cool and BSAC will make a killing in the UK. There's no-one doing it apart from a few people doing courses at places like SETT. Keep at the "BSAC Snorkelling" thing and it will go no-where. Honestly. It won't.
Bob Healey
25-01-2006, 13:36
You don't need alot of kit to freedive. But one of the most popular talks and celebs at the show was Tanya Streeter. Associate "BSAC Freediving" with that and you are laughing. Mention "BSAC Snorkelling" and people will look skywards and start to giggle. Kids don't want a cartoon character with big feet and a silly mask. Well maybe the 5 year olds do. But get to 8+ and they want PSP's, mobiles and stuff. Or than new Motorola PEBL. So make BSAC Freediving cool and BSAC will make a killing in the UK. There's no-one doing it apart from a few people doing courses at places like SETT. Keep at the "BSAC Snorkelling" thing and it will go no-where. Honestly. It won't.
I agree fully with you about SNORK, its official name, and have suggested it be dumped for something more upto date and I do take on board what you say about the name. Would love to hear from Snorkellers what their feelings are.
Bob
Nigel Hewitt
25-01-2006, 13:57
Would love to hear from Snorkellers what their feelings are.Can't help you there as I don't snorkel: Which has the image of bumbling along shallow, a spectator rather than a participant in the ocean.
Can we somehow 'broaden the church'? The snorkel, as a piece of equipment, has it's place but it is not the defining feature of breath-hold diving. It's just one aspect of it. The 'new look' BSAC of the last couple of years is inclusive not exclusive so there may be a case for playing with our words here. Not enough to annoy the stalwarts but enough to be as welcoming to free-divers as we have become to crossovers.
I agree fully with you about SNORK, its official name, and have suggested it be dumped for something more upto date and I do take on board what you say about the name. Would love to hear from Snorkellers what their feelings are.
BobFrom a marketing view, dump the kid angle altogether. It's patronising and doesn't work. Kids are far more savvy these days. You need to "sex it up". Look at the way a PSP is marketed, or an XBox. You don't see "XBoxey" a box on legs that runs round in a furry suit. You see dark, smokey, monochrome images with buff people moodily lit. Tap into that with "BSAC Freediving" and you'll switch people straight on to it.
However, for the training, that needs to be simple, professional and organised.
As ever, it's not what you say, but how you say it. There is a perception that snorkelling is a sport for kids. Wheras freediving is a sport for adults. On another thread I said that I'd be interested in a freediving SDC. I'm not sure that I'd be interested in learning to snorkel.
Woz is right for once.
Janos
Nick Kay
25-01-2006, 17:17
And...
Where does Snorkelling appear within DTS???
Its now really limited to:
OD1(?) where you snorkel/dv switch
OD4 where you teach duck dives
And...
If you blindly follow OD4, the snorkelling comes after you do forward somersaults in full kit:
a) its more progressive if you do it the other way around (i.e. the snorkelling skills before the full kit skills)
b) If you do the snorkelling skills 2nd, I wonder which skills get "missed" if time is tight?
On another thread I said that I'd be interested in a freediving SDC. I'm not sure that I'd be interested in learning to snorkel.
Yep, exactly the same for me
Bob Healey
25-01-2006, 21:07
From a marketing view, dump the kid angle altogether. It's patronising and doesn't work. Kids are far more savvy these days. You need to "sex it up". Look at the way a PSP is marketed, or an XBox. You don't see "XBoxey" a box on legs that runs round in a furry suit. You see dark, smokey, monochrome images with buff people moodily lit. Tap into that with "BSAC Freediving" and you'll switch people straight on to it.
However, for the training, that needs to be simple, professional and organised.
And how do retain membership for Scuba, sex that up as well?
Bob
Adrian Kelland
25-01-2006, 21:22
And how do retain membership for Scuba, sex that up as well?
From many ads around, I would say that is already the case.
Perhaps it is the sterotype BSAC member that puts prospective and existing members off.
Adrian
Bob Healey
25-01-2006, 22:08
From many ads around, I would say that is already the case.
Perhaps it is the sterotype BSAC member that puts prospective and existing members off.
Adrian
So should we widen the question in that case? What do we do to attract and retain people in the BSAC?
Bob
Rhodus Aquanaut
25-01-2006, 23:38
Having read the recent messages about "snorkelling" I would tend to agree that a new image or face for BSAC Snorkelling may not be such a bad idea.
The likes of BSAC Freedivers would fit in quite nicely with the governing body of underwater swimming and also look trendy to younger members, as well as giving more senior members some street cred and a conversation starter for those who need an opening to impress others and make them look more exciting.
Freediving is snorkelling taken to its furthest progression, just like scuba. In scuba, many of us start at a lower level and progress, but we are still known as scuba divers. So in saying our snorkelers are freedivers is that fair, or is it more correct to say that freedivers are snorkelers at the highest level.
Todays market place is all about sell and we need to be competative and offer our potential customers / members something that sells them a dream or idea and says yes they want that.
A possible re-branding of BSAC Snorkelling may be well worth considering.
Rhodus :cool:
Andy Wade
26-01-2006, 01:49
Having read the recent messages about "snorkelling" I would tend to agree that a new image or face for BSAC Snorkelling may not be such a bad idea.
The likes of BSAC Freedivers would fit in quite nicely with the governing body of underwater swimming and also look trendy to younger members, as well as giving more senior members some street cred and a conversation starter for those who need an opening to impress others and make them look more exciting.
Freediving is snorkelling taken to its furthest progression, just like scuba. In scuba, many of us start at a lower level and progress, but we are still known as scuba divers. So in saying our snorkelers are freedivers is that fair, or is it more correct to say that freedivers are snorkelers at the highest level.
Todays market place is all about sell and we need to be competative and offer our potential customers / members something that sells them a dream or idea and says yes they want that.
A possible re-branding of BSAC Snorkelling may be well worth considering.
Sam :cool:
This thread is really interesting, with a genuinely new idea.
Well, to me at least.
I like the idea of a re-brand, and since snorkellers and freedivers both dive with only the barest minimum of equipment, I'd have no problem with BSAC using the term 'free' diver as a catch all to describe this whole section of the sport.
And since the use of the term Sub Aqua does describe us all, it would be quite fitting if the British Sub Aqua Club led the way for a change.
Would this mean that I could join the branch that has Tanya Streeter in it?
Yes please :D
Tristan Green
26-01-2006, 02:28
Would this mean that I could join the branch that has Tanya Streeter in it?
Yes please :D
Andy,
I'm not sure that's what Woz had in mind when he said "sex it up" :eek: .
Oh dear, another thread descends into innuendo ... :o
Cheers,
Tristan
Ian@1904
26-01-2006, 10:06
I'm not sure that's what Woz had in mind when he said "sex it up" :eek: .
I think I know exacty what Woz had in mind when it came to sexing things up.
http://www.yorkshire-divers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=31377
b) If you do the snorkelling skills 2nd, I wonder which skills get "missed" if time is tight?
Surely on any lesson if time is tight you just do it the next time in the pool?
Personally when I am doing lesson 4 I will tend to split it over two weeks anyway so we can make sure we cover everything properly.
Paul Watts
26-01-2006, 10:26
See the other Branch of this posting about the marketing of Snorkelling. Tell me the solution, a couple of voices for snorkelling are not being heard by the multitude.
Bob
Bob, my apologies, I wasn't lecturing or trying to be smart. I was refering to Woz's suggestions to sex the whole thing up... It's covered more in the latter posts.
Interestlingly I found this from another agency http://www.iantd.com/FreeDiving/
The marketing doesn't appear flash, but the tone and description of the qualification is perhaps a little more appealing than plain 'snorkeling'
Steve Pearson
26-01-2006, 10:59
I totally agree with Woz and Paul, re-branding is the solution, and marketing the same way as iantd have done with the same type of structure to the qualifications.
The only problem to stand in the way of this progression would be the reluctanttochangeasaurus, :eek: the dinosaur that still exists within BSAC at various levels.
Will those at the top of the snorkel tree feel that things shouldn't progress because they wouldn't be able to do the freediving skills and be instructors for that. Hopefully not and they will accept that there will be others more suitably qualified to instruct the technical side of 'free' diving (snorkeling).
I'm all for change and progression and hopefully most of you are as well.
Steve
Bob Healey
26-01-2006, 12:21
I totally agree with Woz and Paul, re-branding is the solution, and marketing the same way as iantd have done with the same type of structure to the qualifications.
The only problem to stand in the way of this progression would be the reluctanttochangeasaurus, :eek: the dinosaur that still exists within BSAC at various levels.
Will those at the top of the snorkel tree feel that things shouldn't progress because they wouldn't be able to do the freediving skills and be instructors for that. Hopefully not and they will accept that there will be others more suitably qualified to instruct the technical side of 'free' diving (snorkeling).
I'm all for change and progression and hopefully most of you are as well.
Steve
Please Steve where are these would be Instructors. plenty of talk but your future Instructors still seem entrenched in the woodwork.
Bob
Adrian Kelland
26-01-2006, 13:35
APOLOGIES TO ALL
I appear to have damaged this thread while attempting to split it. I'm not sure how, as the breadcrumb trail at the top was consistent with the location I had copied it to. The posts missing from here are not the ones I selected for deletion.
I apologise for the lost posts. I hope that you will continue this thread as intended and perhaps start a new one regarding rebranding of BSAC as a whole.
Adrian
Steve Pearson
26-01-2006, 15:30
Please Steve where are these would be Instructors. plenty of talk but your future Instructors still seem entrenched in the woodwork.
Bob
Hi Bob
The instructors for a new skill are the same as we have in other parts of BSAC, they get instructor status with another agency, then write the SDC/training manual for BSAC as a BSAC course, then hey presto people start to book on it to do it, and as it becomes more widely attended and advertised the more people that want to do it.
Jeff Reed has done this with RB and Mixed gases and they are to be a BSAC course, Iain Aitcheson has done a sterling job creating an SDC for Ice Diving, and people are already booked on these courses.
Create it, and it will grow.
I doesn't happen overnight. You're probably getting more suggestions and feedback from experienced divers, who would actually contemplate becoming snorkeling freedivers than you've ever had.
I personally would like to try freediving because it is a new skill set to be learned and a challenge.
Steve
I've seen lots of freedivers up at Dorothea, maybe go up there and ask?
iain aitchison
27-01-2006, 20:32
Hi Woz,
have you tried it - I mean saying I am a freediver and getting bought a pint?
The long fins are not as easy to use as they look - a bit like downhill with cross country skis.
The other thing is the snorkel is a pain if you are doing a big free dive - it is just drag, so it is not really snorkelling when you are doing it because you do not have the thing with you on the dive.
regards
Iain
iain aitchison
27-01-2006, 20:55
Hi Nick,
I know one thing, by the time I got finally a shot on a cylinder, I had learnt to swim and to snorkel to a very high standard. A whole winter in the pool at branch pool nights. That foundation of experience still helps me even on much more advanced dives. I think a lot of this buoyancy, finning, mask and ear clearing stuff can be taught without cylinders. We get different divers from teaching it that way.
I know mixed gas instructors who can do a 15-20 snorkel/free dive to free an anchor or the like and who regard it as a matter of honour to visit caverns first found by spearfishermen by free diving into the air chambers found by them too. Entry level caverns, but hard with no cylinder.
Snorkelling has a surface orientated holidaymaker on Majorca image. Free diving like diving have moved on a lot in the last few years. Perhaps it was the Big Blue film - it was for me. That endless blue got me into ERD and the rest just to see it. I wanted to be there without all the kit and gas bills but was not good enough.
What would be a way is to teach it in the Med on an event each year. Why do we have to make all BSAC courses teachable in Stoney Cove and the like? We want to do it and have fun. Why not in warm water? How about a week on Malta or Menorca doing "proper diving" instead of "tooling around" as Simon Campbell might put it in another context?
regards
Iain
iain aitchison
27-01-2006, 21:00
If you spent a fiver on a snorkel you were ripped off. In a spanish supermarket they cost about half that.
Andy Wade
27-01-2006, 22:38
Hi Nick,
I know one thing, by the time I got finally a shot on a cylinder, I had learnt to swim and to snorkel to a very high standard. A whole winter in the pool at branch pool nights. That foundation of experience still helps me even on much more advanced dives. I think a lot of this buoyancy, finning, mask and ear clearing stuff can be taught without cylinders. We get different divers from teaching it that way.
I know mixed gas instructors who can do a 15-20 snorkel/free dive to free an anchor or the like and who regard it as a matter of honour to visit caverns first found by spearfishermen by free diving into the air chambers found by them too. Entry level caverns, but hard with no cylinder.
Snorkelling has a surface orientated holidaymaker on Majorca image. Free diving like diving have moved on a lot in the last few years. Perhaps it was the Big Blue film - it was for me. That endless blue got me into ERD and the rest just to see it. I wanted to be there without all the kit and gas bills but was not good enough.
What would be a way is to teach it in the Med on an event each year. Why do we have to make all BSAC courses teachable in Stoney Cove and the like? We want to do it and have fun. Why not in warm water? How about a week on Malta or Menorca doing "proper diving" instead of "tooling around" as Simon Campbell might put it in another context?
regards
Iain
Oh Joy.
Right on the nail, I couldn't agree more. Hacking up the training scheme in order to compete in the marketplace was for me the most heartbreaking aspect of the last 20 odd years being in BSAC. (Although I do understand why).
Have a greenie on me Iain. :)
If you spent a fiver on a snorkel you were ripped off. In a spanish supermarket they cost about half that.
Hmmmm.... when was this written?
Just came across it!
I spent £22 on my Rolls Royce Impulse 2 and have not regretted it for a minute.
Carol
Nigel Hewitt
27-06-2008, 15:43
Hmmmm.... when was this written?
January 2006
Just came across it!
I spent £22 on my Rolls Royce Impulse 2 and have not regretted it for a minute.Wasn't that the engine in the Harrier jump jet?
no...
hang on...
Pegasus. My bad.
Phil Laughton
27-06-2008, 23:17
The one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that in the early days members had to learn to snorkel / freedive before they were ever allowed near an aqualung. This training was covered in groups A to D with group D being the Out Door Skin Diving Test. The trainee also had to attend at least three out door meetings using basic equipment only. We were then allowed back into the pool to start aqualung training but only if our snorkeling technique was up to the mark and signed off by the DO.
Snorkeling can be fun and should be pushed.
Phil
Nigel Hewitt
28-06-2008, 09:59
Snorkeling can be fun and should be pushed.
Is the problem that the current BSAC scheme of things implies it is something you 'grow out of'?
If we were offering the more exotic breath-hold diving techniques, as an SDC maybe, would we get a take up from divers? I did AIDA two star and very much enjoy the freedom from my usual deep water kit I get. There is a world of difference between the two but would the fact that it was presented as an SDC rather than the beginning of OD magically make it attractive?
(OK. I know ODs aren't expected to do 20m dives and a buddy rescue from 10m wearing suit, fins and a mask but who knew that?)
The one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that in the early days members had to learn to snorkel / freedive before they were ever allowed near an aqualung. ... Snorkeling can be fun and should be pushed. Phil
On the first point, that was indeed the arrangement when I joined Leeds University sub aqua club back in the mid 1960s. On the second point, I do think the "fun" element often seems to be forgotten when there's too much of a focus on the "ever climbing up the climbing way" of training courses and on making all forms of underwater swimming into an adrenaline-fuelled extreme sport perpetuated by macho individuals.
What about offering pool sessions, with training only for those who want or need it, to the general public where anyone and everyone can access the simple enjoyment of swimming around with a mask, snorkel and fins safely indoors? That's how I started as a teenager back in the early 1960s. Now that the "Elfinsafety" brigade have banned snorkelling equipment from public sessions, many young people will have their first experience of snorkelling in a much less safe environment, namely the sea. Unlike the Germans, we don't have "swimming lakes" where snorkelling can be enjoyed. If my local pool offered a snorkelling equipment session once a week, as a "senior citizen" I would be prepared to go along with my own gear, certainly during the winter months when outdoor snorkelling is less enticing. All this may not be very attractive to seasoned scuba divers, but it might get the summer snorkellers along who want to get in a little practice before they flit to sunnier climes.
Just my two cents' worth.
Snorkeling can be fun and should be pushed.
Phil
Why???
Snorkelling has not a lot to do with Diving and I am glad people see sense now adays. ANd I am glad there is little of it left in the training scheme.
Cant think why it should be pushed. Snorkellers just get in the way at pool sessions.
If its what individuals want to do thats fine but it adds no value to a dive club as far as I can see.
Gary
rick stevens
28-06-2008, 19:45
Why???
Snorkelling has not a lot to do with Diving and I am glad people see sense now adays. ANd I am glad there is little of it left in the training scheme.
Cant think why it should be pushed. Snorkellers just get in the way at pool sessions.
If its what individuals want to do thats fine but it adds no value to a dive club as far as I can see.
Gary
Sorry Gary
But thats precisely the narrow minded , selfish attitude that is stopping snorkelling becoming more popular.
Why on earth would snorkellers get in the way of divers at pool sessions? I have done plenty of pool sessions with divers and theres never been a problem, you stop at the bottom and we'll stop near the top.
Why does it not add value to a dive club, easy money from my perspective, no loan of expensive equipment - all income and no expenditiure, plus, if a snorkeller wants to move over to diving they've already got basic water skills.
Just because snorkellers dont want to go to great depths doesnt exclude them from the diving experience - personally Im snorkelling to about 7 metres, down, why has that got nothing to do with diving??
Michael Purcell
28-06-2008, 21:14
And judging from this advert I just received from one of the local dive shops it looks like Freediving can be quite a cash cow (no investment, all revenue):
Experience the ultimate thrill of the Big Blue!
Learn to freedive with the current US masters record holder Aharon Solomons and his partner instructor MT Solomons.
- Dive into the blue zone
- Feel the thrill
- Experience the chill
- Explore your mental potential
This is the ULTIMATE of freediving courses taught by the oldest deep Constant Weight freediver in the world! (69 years old, 60 metres)
Course price: 1200USD/4400 AED
Location: Divers Down, Khor Fakkan, Sharjah (UAE)
Dates: 21st – 25th August 2008
28th – 1st September 2008
4th – 8th September 2008
No previous experience of freediving required.
rick stevens
28-06-2008, 21:17
how much !!! :eek:
Michael Purcell
28-06-2008, 21:18
That's why I bolded it :)
:eek:
On our club night the pool is split 2 lanes scuba (training), 1 lane swimming, 1 lane snorkelling.
It is noticable that the snorkelling lane has the least use.
We have run snorkelling courses in the past. But people generally come to us to learn SCUBA not snorkelling. We do heavilly encourage members to practice snorkelling. We can provide the facilities but me can't make people use them.
Gareth
Nigel Hewitt
28-06-2008, 22:34
On our club night the pool is split 2 lanes scuba (training), 1 lane swimming, 1 lane snorkelling.Our club doesn't segregate things.
OK the guys playing scuba down the deep end have to put up with me mooching around on the bottom breath holding and if they've got the buoyancy hoops out I want to play too.
I probably get in the way a bit but I've got great big Cressi Garas on so I can out run a DPV so I don't stay in the way for long.
This is the whole problem. What fun is there is trundling up and down a lane snorkeling? I wouldn't want to do it so I don't see why anybody else should. You'll be asking me to go jogging next :confused:. However I can do a three minute static breath hold and fin the length of the pool and back, dodging everybody, on a single breath and without touching the surface. I can manoeuvre and tumble in the water. I can 'join in' on quite a lot of things. I have a lot of fun. :cool:
If we fix the 'snorkeling' image problem other people can have a lot of fun too.
Richard Whitcombe
28-06-2008, 23:40
Snorkeling can be fun and should be pushed.
Phil
Not really sure why. If you enjoy snorkelling it can be fun. However i fail to see its relevance to diving. If im underwater i want a metal tank on my back and not rely on my lungs alone to stay down there and see stuff.
For me, the fun of snorkelling ended when i learned to dive as it made me realise just how restrictive it is. Since then when i am snorkelling i get frustrated at only being able to spent 30 seconds or so looking at something when i could get an hour with a tank.
Some people enjoy snorkelling but i dont really see why it should be inflicted on people that just want to dive.
builder_russ
29-06-2008, 00:51
Sorry Gary
But thats precisely the narrow minded , selfish attitude that is stopping snorkelling becoming more popular.
Why on earth would snorkellers get in the way of divers at pool sessions? I have done plenty of pool sessions with divers and theres never been a problem, you stop at the bottom and we'll stop near the top.
Why does it not add value to a dive club, easy money from my perspective, no loan of expensive equipment - all income and no expenditiure, plus, if a snorkeller wants to move over to diving they've already got basic water skills.
I have allready been tarnished with the "narrow minded , selfish attitude" of a typical BSAC diver so don't bother quoting and adding more insults.
Well, as you would probebly guess, I have to agree with Gary!!!...
Here at York BSAC we do not activly search to recruit snorklers or encorage our divers snorkel. We are a dive club, first and formost!!! just because the snorkling can be seen as another underwater activity does not group it in the same catagory as diving even if there is money to be made. If people approach us wanting to snorkel we will happily forward them to your broad minded clubs, "Repeat" as i said before we do not kyac, water ski, surf or snorkel we are a dive club!
Please happily sit here tommorrow and write your responses, while the rest of us in York BSAC go dive instead of posting comments on forums!!!...
Sorry Gary
But thats precisely the narrow minded , selfish attitude that is stopping snorkelling becoming more popular.
It probably is narrow minded but I have to say why shouldn't it be.
Personally I don't want to snorkel. I don't want to promote it either. Why is it that I am perceived to be at fault when I am not doing anything. Some people (and I presume its Snorkellers) seem to have a view that divers should promote snorkelling. Why is that?
I don't own a snorkel. I dont want to go snorkelling. I am happy for others to snorkel, but I cant see why they think a dive club should provide anything for them. Other than basic pool sessions like normal swimmers.
Why on earth would snorkellers get in the way of divers at pool sessions? I have done plenty of pool sessions with divers and theres never been a problem, you stop at the bottom and we'll stop near the top.
They don't really any more than swimmers do. But you have to remember that divers can come to the surface quickly on occasions.
Why does it not add value to a dive club, easy money from my perspective, no loan of expensive equipment - all income and no expenditiure, plus, if a snorkeller wants to move over to diving they've already got basic water skills.
Just because snorkellers dont want to go to great depths doesnt exclude them from the diving experience - personally Im snorkelling to about 7 metres, down, why has that got nothing to do with diving??
What value does it add then. I can't see anything. We have people that snorkel in the pool but thats it.
Personally I would not take snorkerlers out diving with me. Most diving is below 10 metres other than training. Having snorkelers on a dive boat would at least take a place of a diver and and worse add danger.
I am happy for people to go snorkelling. I just can't understand why snorkelers think that divers should be helping them along. Can't they do that themselves?
Gary
Nigel Hewitt
29-06-2008, 10:03
I am happy for people to go snorkelling. I just can't understand why snorkelers think that divers should be helping them along. Can't they do that themselves?OK.
We get the message.
York BSAC doesn't want to know about snorkeling.
Then why not stop posting to the snorkeling section of the BSAC forum.
You aren't interested in us and, frankly, we aren't interested in you.
Do you go into motorcycle news groups and post that cars are better?
I have allready been tarnished with the "narrow minded , selfish attitude" of a typical BSAC diver so don't bother quoting and adding more insults.
Well, as you would probebly guess, I have to agree with Gary!!!...
Here at York BSAC we do not activly search to recruit snorklers or encorage our divers snorkel. We are a dive club, first and formost!!! just because the snorkling can be seen as another underwater activity does not group it in the same catagory as diving even if there is money to be made. If people approach us wanting to snorkel we will happily forward them to your broad minded clubs, "Repeat" as i said before we do not kyac, water ski, surf or snorkel we are a dive club!
Please happily sit here tommorrow and write your responses, while the rest of us in York BSAC go dive instead of posting comments on forums!!!...
Blimey. Have you read THIS BOOK (http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0091906814/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214745163&sr=8-1)
Are you the same person who was wondering why your trainees kept leaving?
I don't snorkle, but I have no problem with people doing whatever floats their boat, diving, snorkelling, or whatever.
Janos
builder_russ
29-06-2008, 22:16
Blimey. Have you read THIS BOOK
Are you the same person who was wondering why your trainees kept leaving?
I don't snorkle, but I have no problem with people doing whatever floats their boat, diving, snorkelling, or whatever.
Janos
__________________
Janos - i dont need any more friends - Obviously!!!
I too have no problem with people snorkling, My arguement is that as a dive club we do not have to provide non divers with the facility to use our pool to snorkel. I would much rather see our pool full of divers.
Russ
Janos - i dont need any more friends - Obviously!!!
I too have no problem with people snorkling, My arguement is that as a dive club we do not have to provide non divers with the facility to use our pool to snorkel. I would much rather see our pool full of divers.
Ah. Sorry. I didn't realise your pool was full of divers and that you're turning people away. That's why you're insulting snorkellers. Fair enough.
Janos
Dave Lev
30-06-2008, 08:43
As feedback from someone who has not read into the BSAC snorkeling arena, I don't really see what a snorkeler would get out of diving within a BSAC system. What essential training is necessary for anyone to go splashing around the rocks at the holiday beach? Why would I, as a diver, recommend that snorkeling friends join BSAC?
If the BSAC snorkeling presence is designed as an introduction to bring children/novices into the diving world (as "Snork" makes it appear, quite frankly, on the bsacsnorkelling.co.uk homepage) then I would suggest those people have already been directed towards BSAC by friends/family who are already divers and therefore might well be future diving members of the club anyway.
It appears to me that the club system is only attractive to real enthusiasts, for whom the term "freediving" might carry more gravitas/status/coolness than "snorkeling"; if the aim is to attract non-scuba, sub-aqua devotees to the club then, for what it's worth, I think Woz makes a very valid point.
It is quite likely that I have completely misunderstood the whole point of BSAC snorkeling. But maybe I'm not alone in that..?
I don't really see what a snorkeler would get out of diving within a BSAC system. What essential training is necessary for anyone to go splashing around the rocks at the holiday beach?
Perhaps "training" is the wrong word to use in connection with snorkelling. As a regular snorkeller, I would welcome the opportunity to snorkel in an indoor pool during the winter months. I don't require training. Young people planning to snorkel during a family trip abroad might want to try out their gear in an indoor pool here too before they go, so they become familiar with it before venturing into the sea. I learned to snorkel first in an indoor pool during the early 1960s, but the use of snorkelling gear is no longer permitted in public pools, thanks to the helpful Health and Safety people. If there's a demand there, it's certainly not being met. Of course, the BSAC isn't obliged to step in and meet this demand, but if they don't, the snorkeller's voice will remain unheard. Online forums such as "Deeper Blue" cater for freedivers, not snorkellers, and I'm very happy to remain in the latter camp. The equipment discussions on freedivers' forums are all about the expensive long fibreglass bi-fins and monofins worn by a minority, not the standard snorkelling gear worn by the majority. Does anybody know of an active snorkeller's online discussion group other than this one?
Adrian Kelland
30-06-2008, 10:01
Perhaps "training" is the wrong word to use in connection with snorkelling. As a regular snorkeller, I would welcome the opportunity to snorkel in an indoor pool during the winter months. I don't require training. Young people planning to snorkel during a family trip abroad might want to try out their gear in an indoor pool here too before they go, so they become familiar with it before venturing into the sea. I learned to snorkel first in an indoor pool during the early 1960s, but the use of snorkelling gear is no longer permitted in public pools, thanks to the helpful Health and Safety people. If there's a demand there, it's certainly not being met. Of course, the BSAC isn't obliged to step in and meet this demand, but if they don't, the snorkeller's voice will remain unheard. Online forums such as "Deeper Blue" cater for freedivers, not snorkellers, and I'm very happy to remain in the latter camp. The equipment discussions on freedivers' forums are all about the expensive long fibreglass bi-fins and monofins worn by a minority, not the standard snorkelling gear worn by the majority. Does anybody know of an active snorkeller's online discussion group other than this one?
The name of the Company of persons interested in underwater activities (which is hereinafter called "BSAC") is "BRITISH SUB-AQUA CLUB"
The Registered Office of BSAC will be situated in England.
The objects for which BSAC is established are: To promote underwater sport exploration science and related studies to promote safety in these activities and by co-operation with other organisations with related objects to provide the widest exchange of knowledge and experience therein and by setting and maintaining the highest standards to sustain recognition as the governing body for all such amateur activity.
In pursuance of these objects but not further on otherwise BSAC shall have the following powers:I'd say that, given the general underwater sport phrases (my bold) in our Memorandum of Association, BSAC is obliged, and possibly branches too if they have used similar wording. If is was only to be scuba based, the writer should have said so. I take this to mean that the writers wanted BSAC to be more than just scuba. Perhaps we have lost our way in trying to compete with other purely scuba based organisations.
Adrian
Nigel Hewitt
30-06-2008, 10:23
I'd say that, given the general underwater sport phrases (my bold) in our Memorandum of Association, BSAC is obliged, and possibly branches too if they have used similar wording. If is was only to be scuba based, the writer should have said so. I take this to mean that the writers wanted BSAC to be more than just scuba. Perhaps we have lost our way in trying to compete with other purely scuba based organisations.
Each branch to it's own. There are some branches that don't do training and others that focus on a particular style and, as we know from this thread, York don't do snorkeling but that's diversity. A look at my avatar shows I don't always do the Self Contained part of SCUBA but I doubt BSAC as a whole would treat that as anathema.
Oh and we get more traffic here than the BFA boards so I have to come hear to talk about monstrous fins et. al. :rolleyes:
Adrian Kelland
30-06-2008, 11:15
Each branch to it's own. There are some branches that don't do training and others that focus on a particular style and, as we know from this thread, York don't do snorkeling but that's diversity. A look at my avatar shows I don't always do the Self Contained part of SCUBA but I doubt BSAC as a whole would treat that as anathema.
Oh and we get more traffic here than the BFA boards so I have to come hear to talk about monstrous fins et. al. :rolleyes:
Indeed, which is why I said possibly. However the HQ/Council setup would seem to have been given a wider remit/requirement by the people who formed the Memorandum.
We have someone who comes along on our pool night with a mono-fin, because we let them. Another penny or two in the funds does not hurt. It's not as if we fill the pool with scuba divers every week.
Adrian
Ron Evans
30-06-2008, 22:40
In my club we encourage people (ie, divers) to snorkel for our weekly session of an hour, so that they build up finning power for diving. Hard to do this by jogging (yeuk ... concrete/tarmac roads) or by usual swimming strokes.
By promoting snorkelling (and I also think free diving is a better term), there is the opportunity to turn this into a bit of a laugh, by playing snorkelling games, which puts variety into the hour. If you don't know the games, see your friendly neighbourhood Snorkel Instructor ;) .
Perhaps all of us dive folk could benefit from free-diving skills to enhance air consumption, but I'd like to know if that is true from those that have given it a try????
HU1 Diver
15-07-2008, 14:16
It’s in the name: British Sub Aqua Club. Its members are scuba divers. When not attending committee meetings, working the compressor or training new members, they are planning diving trips or saving up for that must have gismo. Wannabe snorkellers are considered by many to be a hindrance. Branches it appears are encouraged to promote snorkelling, but not to get people wet. Snorkelling is being sold to branches as a means to secure additional funds. Social inclusion within BSAC (scuba or snorkelling) doesn’t exist either. Indeed most clubs are geared towards the affluent and not those who struggle to make ends meet. True, scuba diving is everything, but it isn’t or everyone, simply because not everyone can afford the expense.
There are around three million people in the UK who aren’t working, while millions more live below the poverty line. There isn’t a level playing field, and for a sizeable proportion of our population to scuba dive will remain a dream. Some people like snorkelling because it’s cheap and gets you out of the house. Snorkelling is about dressing up and getting wet – to escape from reality and to explore what some might consider mundane, but which is still an adventure to others. One man’s rock pool is another man’s abyss.
That is why snorkelling is an important sport : because it is accessible to the majority, but is governed my a minority, but who simply don’t get it.
But what do I know…
Me and Snorkelling
I remember that first day trip to Bridlington in the mid 1970s. There was a young teenager. He was attired in a tatty, old wetsuit, mask, snorkel and flippers (not called fins by us kids in the 1970s). This lad was snorkelling amongst the rocks near the harbour. The joyous simplicity of it all. No membership fees or club politics. I was maybe nine or ten at the time and totally envious. I also wanted to wear a wetsuit and explore the rocks. Thirty years later and I’m still fighting both indifference (social exclusion) and circumstance (subject to status).
Like many my interest in snorkelling and diving was nurtured through television. My Action Man (qualified scuba diver) also played his part. During the Queen’s Silver Jubilee in 1977, the Filey Sub Aqua Club put on a display at Driffield (East Yorkshire) and I was enthralled by a demonstration put on by its members. Why couldn’t I scuba dive or snorkel like my contemporaries – those junior members, now middle-aged, who I still envy to this day?
Problem was in the 1970s I couldn’t swim. My parents also couldn’t afford the equipment or tuition, while there wasn’t a dive club in Driffield. But most importantly of all, snorkelling also wasn’t me. I was expected to be interested in Airfix models and little else.
Maybe my aversion to dive clubs and authority is in direct response to my experiences at School?
In the fourth year - secondary school, it was policy that all pupils should be able to swim at least one length of the pool before the end of term. Accordingly, for the three or four kids from my year who couldn’t swim (me included), extra lessons on Thursday lunchtime were provided. For ten weeks we would gather at Driffield’s swimming pool. Unfortunately, while the school was keen for us kids to make an effort, none of the PE teachers were that keen on teaching us, so we ended up being supervised by a six-form student (with a life-saving certificate) and told to teach ourselves.
Now between the boy’s and girl’s changing rooms was a storeroom, which one Thursday was left unlocked. Inside I discovered a mask and snorkel. Before you could shout “bogies”, I was in the pool and snorkelling. The simplicity of it all. Despite not being able to swim a single length of the pool, I found that snorkelling was invigorating and confidence building, and I managed several lengths, albeit with my head submerged and my hands by my side. I duck dived and had the best time of my life – never bettered, and all unauthorised and against the grain. Must have broken every BSAC rule in the book.
Weeks later and during a proper swimming lesson, the PE teacher took offence to me wearing my own dive mask, which he confiscated. Ever since then I have always felt the system and circumstance have been against me from taking up the sport.
In the mid 1980s (after leaving school) I learnt to swim. I attended swimming lessons on Saturday morning and increased my confidence by attending late night public sessions. It was here that I learnt to tread water and dive. The deep end became a welcomed friend, not to be feared. Then one day I brought along my mask and snorkel, only to be told that they were banned. I was even told by the lifeguard that it was safer to use a mask and snorkel in the sea than in ‘her’ swimming pool (sic). I had previously bought my mask, snorkel and fins in 1983. it would be another ten years before I finally used them.
There are a number of other issues relating to the sport and a few dislikeable individuals which I am unwilling to comment on, but which made it difficult to part-take in the sport. In the end I was left to my own devices. After visiting various second-hand shops in Scarborough, Filey, Bridlington and Hull, and after scanning the classifieds in my local newspaper, I secured a 5mm wetsuit (from the Northern Wetsuit Factory in Scarborough), and finally went snorkelling in the sea at Bridlington in 1992. Sadly, I chose to snorkel off Bridlington’s sandy north beach with its zero visibility. Furthermore, without a weight-belt I found it impossible to duck dive and I accomplish little, other than entertain thousands of bemused holidaymakers. I felt totally dejected and didn’t return to the sport for another ten years, and I haven’t snorkelled in open water since.
Today, as then, snorkelling isn’t a preoccupation nor obsession. However, it is always present – just below surface. Every now and again I get the urge to accomplish my childhood ambition. But personal circumstances always get in the way (including lack of transport and equipment). Funds are always non-existent, while my fledgling business recently failed and I’m back on the dole. It’s summer now and Hull is not the best place to be if you want to go snorkelling. Sundays are a nightmare, while bank holiday weekends are apocryphal in their bleakness. Then again, it’ll pass (always does) and I’m back to normality (debts, bills and Pepsi Max).
Being a wannabe snorkeller makes me knowledgeable in the subject, and accordingly these are my observations:
Firstly, snorkelling is a hazardous sport that needs to be taught and practised in the confines of a swimming pool. Yet as most of you know, councils have banned the use of mask, snorkel and fins during public sessions, while demand is too limited to justify the provision of snorkelling courses or snorkelling lanes during public swimming sessions, or so we are told.
When I moved to Hull in 1996, there were plenty of opportunities to snorkel through the local swimming baths, but only for children. Hull City Council provide Rookie Life Saving Lessons during the school holidays, which includes snorkelling. But if you are an adult it is either BSAC or nothing. Yet it’s about time that BSAC and PADI acknowledge that they are subservient to the aqua-lung or SCUBA. Plain and simple. Neither BSAC nor PADI are suited or geared towards snorkelling anymore.
My personal belief is that snorkel training and the awarding of certificates should be administered by the Amateur Swimming Association. Only with the help of the ASA will snorkelling be allowed back into local authority swimming pools. Snorkelling isn’t as complex as scuba diving. Yes, it is a skill, but one not reliant on loads of technical equipment and facilities. Also it must be noted that the vast majority of individuals who would benefit from structured lessons, mostly those planning a holiday, aren’t interested in becoming a member of their local BSAC, nor are they that keen to waste their hard earned money on branch/club fees.
I don’t want to get involved in the snorkelling is for kids and free-diving is for adults (tech-diving on the cheap?) argument. I don’t even think there is an image problem with snorkelling as a sport. Snorkelling is the easy bit. The problem is that snorkelling takes second billing to sub-aqua and always will now. What BSAC does need to do is offer a value for money service, where becoming a fee-paying member is an option, not a condition or requirement. Snorkelling should be about creating opportunities and shouldn’t be seen as a distraction by branch members.
My experiences with PADI are thus: Around ten years ago I paid a dive shop in Hull (since closed) £20 for a PADI one-to-one snorkelling lesson. Cometh the day (or rather the evening) and I ended up at a school in north Hull (used by various dive clubs and schools). Firstly I wasn’t given any weights to counteract the buoyancy of my wetsuit. My mask also leaked. My instructor was also pre-occupied with a group of PADI Open Water Diver trainees. One minute my instructor was attentive and the next he was at the other end of the pool, giving instruction to other, more profitable, clientele.
I left the session feeling deflated and dejected. What I realised from that lesson was that snorkelling isn’t as easy as some people might think. Snorkelling (like swimming) is a craft or skill that needs to be practiced. Good fin action and properly executed duck-dives reduce effort, making snorkelling a relaxing pastime. On the other hand, scuba diving is about technology. Why do you think kids and the disabled and even non-swimmers are now allowed to scuba dive? Press one button and you go down. Press another button and you go up. Simple.
When I was growing up and when my ambition/obsession (you decide) surfaced, I would often read the same old book in my local library. It dictated that you must be able to accomplished a variety of swimming tasks before being allowed to wear “fins”. Most frustrating.
It also took me years to learn that the most important thing about diving was this: snorkelling and diving is more fun with likeminded individuals, namely your friends, especially if they look worse than you do in neoprene. Sadly I honestly don’t think that joining BSAC will provide me or anyone else for that matter with that level of friendship or support needed – especially if all I want to do is get wet and snorkel dive. My mate’s three year old son can run and jump. He’s not that keen going back to crawling again. Good analogy? Would you rather wet-nurse a 42 year old obsessive through his first open water snorkel dive or would you rather dive on that historic wreck at 50m? Snorkelling and snorkellers need a wholly independent club – separate from BSAC – for the sport to flourish. The Amateur Swimming Association might be the catalyst needed.
Gary from York wrote: “Snorkelling has not a lot to do with [scuba] diving and I am glad people see sense nowadays. And I am glad there is little of it left in the training scheme. Can’t think why it should be pushed. Snorkellers just get in the way at pool sessions. If it’s what individuals want to do that’s fine but it adds no value to a dive club as far as I can see.” Russ wrote: “I too have no problem with people snorkelling. My argument is that as a dive club we do not have to provide non-divers with the facility to use our pool to snorkel. I would much rather see our pool full of divers.” These chaps are not alone. Maybe it’s time for BSAC to as honest as its members?
Ben Panter
15-07-2008, 15:06
Gary from York wrote: “Snorkelling has not a lot to do with [scuba] diving and I am glad people see sense nowadays. And I am glad there is little of it left in the training scheme. Can’t think why it should be pushed. Snorkellers just get in the way at pool sessions. If it’s what individuals want to do that’s fine but it adds no value to a dive club as far as I can see.” Russ wrote: “I too have no problem with people snorkelling. My argument is that as a dive club we do not have to provide non-divers with the facility to use our pool to snorkel. I would much rather see our pool full of divers.” These chaps are not alone. Maybe it’s time for BSAC to as honest as its members?
Hello and welcome to the forums.
I'll give you a counter opinion those expressed above - I think (as a long time diver) that snorkelling is great fun. I do a lot of shore diving, and snorkelling is great for the surface intervals and for exploring regions where an aqualung is just to clumsy and big to be of use. I've even done trips where I could have dived but instead chose to just snorkel. I also really enjoy octopush, as do enough other members of my branch. So many that we can even put out a team!
Although a fair bit of training takes place in a pool, snorkelling is all about getting out and about and exploring remote and interesting sites. Snorkelling skills learnt in a pool are only a small part of the training - the vast majority of which tallies very nicely with the skills needed for diving. I'm very happy for snorkelling to stay within BSAC, and very glad that it will remain. 42 year old obsessive snorkeller? We'd be glad to have you on board.
Ben
OK.
We get the message.
York BSAC doesn't want to know about snorkeling.
Then why not stop posting to the snorkeling section of the BSAC forum.
You aren't interested in us and, frankly, we aren't interested in you.
Do you go into motorcycle news groups and post that cars are better?
Bit over the top isnt it?
It is my opionion and sorry it doesnt match your views.
I thought the idea of the forum was open views.
Personally I dont want to snorkel and I dont want to get involved with teaching it. As far as the branch goes that is up to the individual Instructors.
Although I dont think that I am particularly alone in this view.
I would be happy for a Snorkel Instructor to teach it and run it it thats what they wanted. Fact is there aint many around.
Snorkelers need to get away from the view that they can expect any diving branch to take them on. Dont think this is going to happpen much.
May be BSAC can draw up a list of banches happy to get involved with snorkeling so that people can get an informed view.
Appolgies if its already there and I have not seen it.
Tristan Green
16-07-2008, 02:52
May be BSAC can draw up a list of banches happy to get involved with snorkeling so that people can get an informed view.
Appolgies if its already there and I have not seen it.
Like this?
http://www.bsacsnorkelling.co.uk/training/branches.htm
Cheers,
Tristan
HU1 Diver
16-07-2008, 11:35
Personally I dont want to snorkel and I dont want to get involved with teaching it. As far as the branch goes that is up to the individual Instructors.
Although I dont think that I am particularly alone in this view.
I would be happy for a Snorkel Instructor to teach it and run it it thats what they wanted. Fact is there aint many around.
Snorkelers need to get away from the view that they can expect any diving branch to take them on. Dont think this is going to happpen much.
And that's the problem with BSAC and Snorkelling. There is no uniformity and no universal commitment. For BSAC head office to leave local provision to the whim of local instructors only shows how little snorkelling is appreciated.
I was recently offered the chance to tag alone with a couple of divers. Now, I’ve snorkelled in the sea (albeit once in 1992) and have done some pool training (through PADI – waste of money). However, these divers soon changed their minds and requested that I undergo additional training. But where and with who? How do you approach a Diving Instructor, who probably has better things to do…
Ben Panter
16-07-2008, 11:49
But where and with who? How do you approach a Diving Instructor, who probably has better things to do…
Tristan's given you the link already - very easy, just find a BSAC branch who likes snorkelling, join it and start learning. As an organisation, BSAC doesn't force branches to snorkel - just as it doesn't force them to SCUBA dive - that's up to the branch in question. If you're finding it hard to find a branch, then please get in touch with HQ, I'm sure they will help you out.
Cheers,
Ben
Nigel Hewitt
16-07-2008, 11:59
And that's the problem with BSAC and Snorkelling. There is no uniformity and no universal commitment. For BSAC head office to leave local provision to the whim of local instructors only shows how little snorkelling is appreciated.This is diversity.
There are branches that snorkel, mine doesn't because on the South Coast you don't find anything inshore and shallow, there are branches that don't do trimix, devil gas, there are branches that only use one sort of equipment, I'd go mad. HQ dictates standards not interests, they try to keep us safe not tell us what to do.
This is why we always advise somebody who wants a branch to get a list of local ones from the website and go round and visit them. Find the guys that share your enthusiasm no matter what it is for. This is far better than pressuring assistance out of people that are less than enthusiastic for your subject.
And that's the problem with BSAC and Snorkelling. There is no uniformity and no universal commitment. For BSAC head office to leave local provision to the whim of local instructors only shows how little snorkeling is appreciated. Scuba diving is treated no differently by BSAC. The BSAC branches exist because, people have formed them, financed them, qualified as instructor, overcome the access barriers created by local authorities and the HSE, organised and participated in the activities they personally enjoy.
Some branches provide snorkeling facilities, some do not.
Ron Evans
16-07-2008, 20:16
And that's the problem with BSAC and Snorkelling. There is no uniformity and no universal commitment. For BSAC head office to leave local provision to the whim of local instructors only shows how little snorkelling is appreciated.
I was recently offered the chance to tag alone with a couple of divers. Now, I’ve snorkelled in the sea (albeit once in 1992) and have done some pool training (through PADI – waste of money). However, these divers soon changed their minds and requested that I undergo additional training. But where and with who? How do you approach a Diving Instructor, who probably has better things to do…
If you fill in your personal details, especially your location, so that they appear on your mailings, you may find that you get snorkel instrustors contacting you. So, where are you?
frogbmth
16-07-2008, 23:26
This is diversity.
There are branches that snorkel, mine doesn't because on the South Coast you don't find anything inshore and shallow
You're kidding right?:eek:
Nigel Hewitt
17-07-2008, 00:47
You're kidding right?:eek:
A bit...
...but my home and my office both lead down to Brighton Beach and I really don't fancy there's much there. You need to go a bit east or west.
The club teaches the OD lessons in a pool and rather drops it after that.
frogbmth
17-07-2008, 01:16
Now that makes sense.
I've been scuba diving for 15 years and recently gave it all up to concentrate on snorkel and freedive trips. I've never enjoyed the water so much. For me its just freedom. I'm in a small minority and realise that.
I've done PADI, SAA and BSAC and can honestly say that the only people who I have ever found taking snorkelling seriously are BSAC divers. Many people see snorkelling as a childrens or novice's activity or for those who haven't made it to scuba.
I very much think that clubs and individuals need to decide for themselves whether snorkelling or freediving forms part of their world. If a club doesn't provide what you are looking for, dont join - or better still form your own. :)
Hi HU1 Diver,
What a pity you are not near me in W of Scotland.
I hardly go out at all cos I dont have anyone to go with.
And how many others are like you and just cant get the training they want ann need.
Carol
JesterSevens
24-08-2008, 13:18
i snorkel because i get asthma and im not aloud to dive, (at least iv not found anywhere that will let me! anyone knows any different let me know!!), despite not having an attack in nearly 25 years and being a strong confident swimmer:( so at least with a mask and snorkel i can see some under water stuff! :)
i snorkel because i get asthma and im not aloud to dive, (at least iv not found anywhere that will let me! anyone knows any different let me know!!), despite not having an attack in nearly 25 years and being a strong confident swimmer:( so at least with a mask and snorkel i can see some under water stuff! :)
If you have not had an attack in 25 years then there should be no problem, you will need to speak to a medical referee and get their OK but that should not be a problem. I would have a chat with a referee on the phone, if they are happy go and see them to get formal sign off, then go and find your local BSAC club and look forward to spending more than your disposable income on diving :D
See here for details of risks
http://www.uksdmc.co.uk/standards/Standards-%20asthma.htm
and here for details of referees
http://www.uksdmc.co.uk/main/Medical%20referees.htm
Richard Whitcombe
24-08-2008, 16:00
i snorkel because i get asthma and im not aloud to dive, (at least iv not found anywhere that will let me! anyone knows any different let me know!!), despite not having an attack in nearly 25 years and being a strong confident swimmer:( so at least with a mask and snorkel i can see some under water stuff! :)
Go see one of the diving medical referees off the BSAC site. If the asthma is historic or controlled chances are you'll be certified as fit to dive.
If you haven't had it for 25 years and dont suffer from random bouts of it im fairly certain you'll be signed up. So if you want to go diving and see underwater properly its worth going to one of the medical referees (NOT your local GP who doesnt know about diving medicine)
JesterSevens
24-08-2008, 20:05
:cool: that sounds promising, cheers, i will check that out! :D
The Australians have differentiated different asthma catergories. If you do not use inhaled steroids, and only occasionally use your salbutemerol you should be able to dive. Also you need to NOT have exercise induced asthma.
I have to snorkel/free dive because of asthma. When I asked the doctor who treated a BIG attack last year, as I had oral steroids, inhaled steroids and salbutemerol - he said NO WAY as my lungs would explode.
So if it's mild get an o.k. from a diving doctor, or a doctor who dives!
Good luck!
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