BSAC ERD course (posts moved from BSAC '88 thread)

[Mike Rowley]

Mike,
I appologize for not attending a BSAC Extended Range Course, i would have loved to but we got no instructors here so i opted for the next best thing.
As DSAT does not recommend any deco program / planner as such and the tech comunity here is in its infancy i wanted to find out what others (BSAC members) use or recommend.
Your statement regrading the Pro-planner was pritty much what i was looking for. :0)

Thanks for the help.

Khaled

Absolutely no need to apologise to anyone Khaled, there are few bad courses out there, the quality usually depends largely on the instructor. The BSAC ERD course requires modification to fit in with the current strategic plan for BSAC Technical courses so I'm sure your course covered everything you need.

Cheers

Mike

[Alun]

The BSAC ERD course requires modification to fit in with the current strategic plan for BSAC Technical courses...
What does the ERD course have in it? I've looked on the BSAC website at the overview and syllabus for the course, but to be honest, I'm not really any the wiser as a result.
I've looked over at the 'other place' (the divers of yorkshire I think it's called) and most threads on there descend into rucks about the rights and wrongs of deep air.

[Chris Cherrington]

What does the ERD course have in it? I've looked on the BSAC website at the overview and syllabus for the course, but to be honest, I'm not really any the wiser as a result.
I've looked over at the 'other place' (the divers of yorkshire I think it's called) and most threads on there descend into rucks about the rights and wrongs of deep air.

Deco with gas other than back gas.

Deep air is for tw... (Oh sorry wrong forum).

BSAC ERD will get you into most trimix courses as the equivalent of advanced nitrox with the techie agencies.

Gas switches during the dive require some sort of deco software or tables other than the 88s. Hence its (ERD) appearance here.....

Chris

[Alun]

Deco with gas other than back gas.

Deep air is for tw... (Oh sorry wrong forum).

BSAC ERD will get you into most trimix courses as the equivalent of advanced nitrox with the techie agencies.

Gas switches during the dive require some sort of deco software or tables other than the 88s. Hence its (ERD) appearance here.....

Chris
So it'd be an equivalent to (say) IANTD advanced nitrox or TDI/PSAI advanced nitrox and deco then?

[Steve Pearson]

So it'd be an equivalent to (say) IANTD advanced nitrox or TDI/PSAI advanced nitrox and deco then?

Hi Alun

I think you'd find it a bit more than that.

The ERD course should teach you the following:

Correct Kit configuration for diving with Twins
Correct trim and buoyancy control
Shut down drills as an instinctive procedure for manifold and cylinder valves
Planning a dive using run times from tables or deco programs
allowing for variations in bottom times and back-up run times.
Planning the dive, and diving the plan with strict observance to timings
buoyancy control on ascents and holds at deco stops
use of accelerated deco gases up to 100% O2, but why 80% max is the prefered option
deeper diving experience
Use of a trapeze
Advanced diving techniques and procedures.

the above list isn't exhaustive, but as you can see there's a lot more to it than just an advanced Nitrox course. The advanced Nitrox is a pre-requisite and therefore you must have that before you can do the course.

Hope this helps a little

Steve

[garethwebber]

Hi,

Can someone explain the differences between the BSAC advanced nitrox and those from TDI and IANTD?

Do the latter agencies run an ERD equivalent?

Gareth

[Chris Cherrington]

Hi,

Can someone explain the differences between the BSAC advanced nitrox and those from TDI and IANTD?

Do the latter agencies run an ERD equivalent?

Gareth

There is a big difference and yes most technical agencies do or did an erd of some form. Alun is correct. The BSAC ERD is more or less the same as IANTD Adv. EAN or TDI Deco+Adv EAN.

Looking at Steve's list the only thing I can see is that BSAC use EAN80 to IANTD EAN50. TDI uses 100% O2 which is much better than EAN80 BTW.... (search Google on GUE and "stroke gas")

ERD or deep air is not taught much these days and most agencies agree that 40M is the sensible air limit. ERD generally means pushing air diving. Not a good idea. (Despite this DSAT's new Tech Deep is a 50M air qual. AFAIK the newest deep air qual.) (However some folks refer to trimix as ERD just to cloud the waters further..)

BSAC ERD introduces accelerated deco (this is "advanced EAN" in most other training organisations) as I said before this is its relevence to the 88s....

BSAC Advanced EAN covers all blends of trox plus the use of trox in deco. Its a sort of halfway house. It makes sense given that BSAC SD is a deco grade diver. This compares to other training organisations where the diver taking Advanced EAN is new to deco.

Comparisons are a bit silly therefore. Somewhat like comparing PADI MSD with USN MSD.....

Chris

[MattS]

There is a big difference and yes most technical agencies do or did an erd of some form. Alun is correct. The BSAC ERD is more or less the same as IANTD Adv. EAN or TDI Deco+Adv EAN.I think that's a rather general use of the word correct. Personally, based on originally qualifying as an IANTD Adv Nx in 97 and sitting in on BSAC Adv Nx courses since, I would say that they are more or less the same.

The IANTD course goes into more detail (including EAD) and prepares the diver for technical training. I would say the IANTD course I took encouraged a more disciplined view of acceptable kit and the use of primary donation. That may well be a reflection of the instructors though. TDI used to treat Adv Nx as a mainly theory skill but later insisted on deco procedures when it was pointed out that many candidates were being given an accelerated deco ticket without having been trained and assessed to complete deco dives.

I took IANTD Technical Nitrox (ERD) in 98. The course went into even more detail covering such things as meditation, breathing and diet along with the more usual subjects. The BSAC ERD course does not go into the same level of detail but uses repetition extensively. The step from BSAC Adv Nx to BSAC ERD is not so 'joined up' in my mind as the EAD/Buhlmann based software packages tend to produce accelerated profiles which are longer than the 88 air only profiles for the same dive.

Looking at Steve's list the only thing I can see is that BSAC use EAN80 to IANTD EAN50. TDI uses 100% O2 which is much better than EAN80 BTW.... (search Google on GUE and "stroke gas")Dubious use fo the word better perhaps.

100% is no doubt the best decompression gas but it comes with serious CNS tox risks. As far as I am concerned, using 100% sat on a cave floor or alongside a deco trapeze in calm water is one thing. Freefloating under a DSMB in UK sea conditions brings a somewhat different set of risks.

IIRC GUE recommend use of 100% at 6m (PPO 1.6) which means there is little margin for the sort of error introduced by typical UK sea conditions. BSAC have a limit of a max 1.4 PPO, so using 100% would place you at 4m well inside the zone that can be influenced by marginal surface conditions. There is a law of diminishing returns when it comes to deco and I think that 100% floating under a DSMB in UK sea conditions increases the CNS risk disproportionately relative to the reduction in DCI risk that 100% brings. If I find DCI worrying, CNS tox scares the pants off me.

Personally I prefer to switch before the main bulk of stops so I use 80% to 85% switching between 10m and 9m. Although this means breaking BSACs PPO limit it allows me to get the switch out the way before getting into shallow water. If I had to pick a deco gas that complied with BSACs somewhat disjointed O2 policy I would choose 88% which is both a little amusing and provides the highest (1.4 PPO) for the majority of the stops (6m).

ERD or deep airExtended Range Diving (ERD) and 'Deep Air' are not the same thing. Deep Air was used to describe air diving to depths where the PPO becomes provocatively high (60m+) - this would include deep bounce dives. Extended Range Dives are those which go beyond generally accepted recreational limits - that may be long bottom times as shallow as 25m or deep dives which required Trmix to manage the CNS tox risks. ERD was a prerequisite for Trimix prior to normoxic courses becoming available. It's fairly recently that one particular fledgling US agency promoted itself on the Narcosis risks of diving air in the 30m+ range.

is not taught much these days and most agencies agree that 40M is the sensible air limit.Most agencies agree that staying within no decompression limits is the sensible limit for all gasses ;)

ERD generally means pushing air diving.ERD is associated with air diving because it bcomes useful when increasing depth means main gas O2 content has to be leaned off due to CNS risks. This leads to decompression obligations increasing rapidly with bottom time and hence the risks of accelerated deco become worthwhile.

(However some folks refer to trimix as ERD just to cloud the waters further..)ERD encompasses trimix diving. Think of increasing risk in terms of increasing time AND/OR depth and it becomes logical. The motivation for technical diving is that diving past recreational limits brings greater risks (like not being able to make a direct ascent) and so recreational techniques are not always suitable. Personally I am a great believer in using technical techniques (which as far as I am concerned are all about managing risks) to make recreational diving both safer and more enjoyable.

BSAC ERD introduces accelerated deco (this is "advanced EAN" in most other training organisations)Is it? My IANTD advanced ticket only allowed using 50% as a deco safety gas, the same as BSACs Advanced ticket. TDI were unusual in allowing accelerated deco at Advanced - although they probably sold a lot of courses on the back of it.

BSAC Advanced EAN covers all blends of trox plus the use of trox in deco.It covers blends up to 50% on backgas decompression schedules.

Its a sort of halfway house. It makes sense given that BSAC SD is a deco grade diver. This compares to other training organisations where the diver taking Advanced EAN is new to deco.It makes sense in that using 50% as a deco safety gas will significantly reduce DCI risks during long decompression with a small increase in CNS risk. It leads onto increasing the CNS risk by accelerating deco, which requires further training because it introduces additional dangers.

The bit that mystifies me (and many others) is the near religious devotion to the 88s by some divers.I don't think there is anything mystical about divers sticking with what they were trained to do. The vast majority don't have any reason to mistrust BSACs teachings and never progress to the point where it becomes restrictive.

Like anything new is bad and somehow or another all diving knowledge stoped 20 years ago.....(stab jacket bad - ABLJ good..) The point you're making goes both ways. The younger generation often seem to thing that anything which preceded them is irrelevant. Diving generations are about 5 years so you can get to feel very old very quickly ;) An ABLJ is still superior to a jacket or wing BCD in some circumstances.

I think this smells of politics.Conspiracy theories are far too complicated for me. Perhaps our NDOs have just been somewhat wary of playing with things they do not completely understand. That's not a criticism of NDOs, the number of scientists that understand this stuff can be counted on one hand. Chris I am sure you are aware of KISS, I suspect it applies here.

[Chris Cherrington]

Matt I think the IANTD course must have changed a bit as it now covers accelerated deco, not deco with 50 as a safety gas. That being the case we are perhaps a bit at cross purposes (entirely possible the BSAC Adv EAN has changed since I last looked too...)

But we're both wandering off topic as this was about the 88s.

Best.

Chris

[MattS]

Matt I think the IANTD course must have changed a bit as it now covers accelerated deco, not deco with 50 as a safety gas. That being the case we are perhaps a bit at cross purposes.Chris you inspired me to go dig out the current IANTD course standard. (http://www.iantd.com/standards/IANTD_Standards_2003.pdf)

3. This program qualifies divers to do dive to 140 fsw (42 msw) and do decompression stops required dives for up to 15 minutes
using EAN 50 as a decompression gas

Checking my 50% tables that means you're allowed to accelerate by oooh a whole two or three minutes.

But we're both wandering off topic as this was about the 88s.You started it :D

I get the idea we would probably agree on the 88s being ripe for review...and disagree on a whole lot of other things ;)

[Tristan Green]

Ladies and Gents,

Since there were two topics intermeshed in the 88 Tables thread I extracted them to a new thread - you can keep discussing the ERD course here.

Cheers,
Tristan

[Chris Cherrington]

Chris you inspired me to go dig out the current IANTD course standard. (http://www.iantd.com/standards/IANTD_Standards_2003.pdf)



Checking my 50% tables that means you're allowed to accelerate by oooh a whole two or three minutes.

You started it :D

I get the idea we would probably agree on the 88s being ripe for review...and disagree on a whole lot of other things ;)

Naahh we could agree on lots I'm sure.

Yes the "accelerated" bit of the deco is a bit silly given a 15 deco limit I agree. But the point was that it is the introduction of this discipline in order to prepare the diver for the next level trimix/technical.

With the (so-called) technical agencies the Adv EAN is the start point. Introduction to twins and deco etc. for divers mostly (if not exclusively) coming from a PADI Rescue (or equivalent) qualification.

BSAC is very different. A BSAC SD is allowed to deco (unlike say a PADI Course Director :D) furthermore the typical DL or AD is probably doing deco dives fairly often. BSAC introduce gas management as opposed to the PADI RD "get back with 50 bar..."

The BSAC Adv EAN course is therefore lightweight by comparison. This is becasue all the other elements of (for example) an IANTD Adv EAN are covered elsewhere. This to my mind make a straight comparison wrong.

Nevertheless if you want to go on to trimix the tech agency will look for BSAC ERD as this introduces accelerated deco. Maybe this is unfair? But life is....

When BSAC gets the Tx ticket running there will be a logical progression within BSAC and maybe a lot less BSAC divers will end up going elsewhere for their training.

Meantime we agree that the 1.4ATA PPO2 limit is daft for deco and that the last deco stop should be deeper than 3M in UK seas.

My real point was that Steve's post suggested all his list of things are not covered in an Adv EAN course. True of BSAC but not other agencies....

Now. Shall we resume battle over the 100% O2 ??? :D

Chris

[Janos]

I do think that BSAC is missing a twinset SDC.

Adv. Nitrox should be taught on a single tank + pony or stage. Whereas ERD is really twinset and stage diving, and there's a big gap in the middle.

Janos

[Odin]

I do think that BSAC is missing a twinset SDC.

Adv. Nitrox should be taught on a single tank + pony or stage. Whereas ERD is really twinset and stage diving, and there's a big gap in the middle.

Janos
Is there?
if you are using a twinset do you never carry a sidemount because you haven't done a course?
Many start on singles/progess to single + pony - to twins... What am I going to do with my pony? - I'll sidemount it!
A natural progression perhaps, without doing any type of course.
Just beacuse on the ERD course we teach twins/sidemounts does not mean you always have to use them. Cofigure the kit to the dive.
I'll use a 10l for a 15m dive and feel comfortable. I prefer my rebreather & ALWAYS have bailout.
So rather than add another SDC why not market the ERD course better/more?

Paul ERD 014/Inst 030

[Janos]

Is there?
if you are using a twinset do you never carry a sidemount because you haven't done a course?
Many start on singles/progess to single + pony - to twins... What am I going to do with my pony? - I'll sidemount it!
A natural progression perhaps, without doing any type of course.
Just beacuse on the ERD course we teach twins/sidemounts does not mean you always have to use them. Cofigure the kit to the dive.
I'll use a 10l for a 15m dive and feel comfortable. I prefer my rebreather & ALWAYS have bailout.
So rather than add another SDC why not market the ERD course better/more?
Paul ERD Inst 030

Fair enough. But there are a quite a lot of people who just dive a twinset without a sidemount.

I guess what I was getting at is what training should these divers do? Ie if Fred in your club buys a twinset what would you advise him? I think that the full ERD course is overkill at this stage, but Advanced Nitrox isn't about twinsets.

True, there is scope for teaching it within branch if someone there who already has a twinset (but this is true of many SDCs). A few professional instructors have started to run one-day introduction to twinset courses, and I think there's a gap in BSAC's training programme.

Janos

[Paul Oliver]

I think there is need for a balance in between the points raised by Paul and Janos here. I did ERD after a lot of thought. The main issue was finding out more about it and finding an instructor, so in my view better publicity of the course and the availability of instructors would be a big step forward.

I knew a bit about twinsets before the course, largely from self help and the Interwebbythingy and had no problems with the basic skills when i did the course. But would have preferred some practice time with a mentor.

I have since shown several would be twinset divers the skills and i feel this is one of BSAC's strengths where we have experience and knowledge freely shared within a branch. But many branches don't have that available, so divers don't follow this route or go outside of BSAC.

However i see some promise in a Twin-set familiarization/introduction course/SDC working on these skills and making the most of Branch/Regional Instructor/Diver skills, even if its closer to a try-dive session to try out various configurations and options before buying. As we know there is far more to twinset diving than configuration and shutdowns, but they are not a bad starting point for someone looking to buy.

I use my ERD skills in most of my diving now and regularly dive with long run times in the 30-50m range and i will move onto Trimix in the future, when i do that i will have quite a lot of experience before going not just from the course but also from trial and error.

I just feel that those skills and the availability of resources to learn them could have been more obviously available.

I also still use my 15L and Pony on club Rhib dives, its just that now i prefer the pony stage rigged as i think its a lot better way of carrying it and kitting up/De-kitting :) i would not have done that before the course and subsequent experience.

Also going a bit further back, as usual i have to totally agree with Matt's points, and totally disagree with Chris on ERD being about deep air, its not its very much planned and managed run times and decompression. I have primarily used it for long run times in the 30-45m range :) and very nice its been too :)

[Fiona]

Fair enough. But there are a quite a lot of people who just dive a twinset without a sidemount.

Janos

That would be me then :)

Although I did do a course with Andy Hayhurst last year even though this was about 5 years after I started to use them.

[Janos]

I have since shown several would be twinset divers the skills and i feel this is one of BSAC's strengths where we have experience and knowledge freely shared within a branch. But many branches don't have that available, so divers don't follow this route or go outside of BSAC.

I agree entirely, and people come and talk to me in our club about twins as well. But if someone's interested in, say, search techniques, then I can have a chat with them down the pub, or we can do some pool or quarry work, but it's nice that someone's done the hard work in writing an SDC and that there's the option of doing a regional course if you want to.

It would be nice to have the same option when people come and ask me about twinsets.

Janos

[Paul Oliver]

It would be nice to have the same option when people come and ask me about twinsets.

Are you sure they are not just asking why yours are upside-down :)

[Nigel Hewitt]

Are you sure they are not just asking why yours are upside-down :)
Which is, of course, the obvious way to do things.

[Alwassia]

Hi, i truly enjoyed the details of comparison of TDI, IANTD and BSAC.

AS i did not have the orputunity to choose form the "older" technical agencies i had to use the DSAT course but till today i have no idea how BSAC looks at the course in comparison to TDI or IANTD, both mentioned in the alternative SDC list.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what BSAC thinks of the Tec Deep Diver Certification and if possible what area's need consideration for additional training / practice as they were not or just sort of covered.

Many thanks

Khaled

[Gareth]

Interesting reading.

I personnally believe the ERD coarse is a good coarse & good value. As always it is dependent on the instructor, but its content & aims are good.

It is an excellent preperation coarse for those who wish to move on to Trimix later.
Dispite the mantra Plan the Dive & Dive the Plan. Very few divers are used to diving to a table these days. Computers have changed the way most people dive, proper planning & dive discipline is noticiably lacking in most divers.

The coarse teaches all the disciplines need when changing from recreational diving to more adventurous diving.

The most important of these are:
Good diving skills - reinforced by continuous practice (instinctive technique).
Diving discipline - ability to dive to runtime, good decompression technique, Gas planning, correct ascent speed.
Preparation - before the trip, before the dive, during the dive. Mental & physical.
Familiarity with equipment - use, handling, competance.

I would also agree that all of these points should exist anyway with those that wish to move to this type of diving, but sadly that is often not the case.
Even if you do have good skills, it is also true that you can't ever have enough practice or debate the techniques enough. You might learn something new!

ERD does not = deep air. Its more about dive discipline & extended bottom times with accelerated decompression.
So it fits with those diving in the 30 - 40m region. Do I dive to 50m on air - yes. Would I prefer to use Trimix beyond 40m - yes most certainly, but availability, conditions & type of dive all play a part in the planning.



The other old chestnut that seems to come up again & again is the 100% O2 argument. I feel it always looses some of its credability when insults are used.
I have used 100% O2, & will again.
But I am very careful - I have only once used 100% O2 in the UK on a coastal dive - the conditions where exceptionally good.
I feel the decompression benfit is often outweighed by the CNS & UPTD loading.
More importantly a O2 hit is more likely to kill me than DCI.
I prefer to minimise the inwater risks as much as possible (this is a problem I am now debating with myself as I switch to CCR, I have added Hypoxia, Hyperoxia & Hypercapnia into the equation).
One benefit with 100% O2 is that no mixing is involved, minimising mixing errors, but end pressures may well be lower.
I would prefer to decompress ar 6m in most cases, rather than 4.5 or 3m, (I have done both in suitable conditions,) this minimises the effect of sea state, boat traffic. I also like to get on to the rich mix slightly deeper 12 or 9m.

But like all these arguments it about personnal preference & where you see the risk - which is why education & training is so important.

Gareth

[IainC]

I personnally believe the ERD coarse is a good coarse & good value. As always it is dependent on the instructor, but its content & aims are good.


I agree, I did my BSAC ERD combined with an (other agency) trimix course, I had already been using a twinset and sometimes stages for several years and I still learned a lot. It really is about planning, preparation and attitide for decompression diving and a lot of it is applicable to every dive I do.


100% O2


Doing the course made me think about O2 and OxTox again, having got a little lazy in that regard. I can now make a more informed decision about the gases I dive with and the conditions I use them in, but that is another thread entirely. I'll trust those with more experience and live inside the restrictions of my insurance, which I haven't found restricting at all so far.

[MattDuke]

I agree, I did my BSAC ERD combined with an (other agency) trimix course, I had already been using a twinset and sometimes stages for several years and I still learned a lot. It really is about planning, preparation and attitide for decompression diving and a lot of it is applicable to every dive I do.



Doing the course made me think about O2 and OxTox again, having got a little lazy in that regard. I can now make a more informed decision about the gases I dive with and the conditions I use them in, but that is another thread entirely. I'll trust those with more experience and live inside the restrictions of my insurance, which I haven't found restricting at all so far.

That's one of the best things about the BS-AC ERD course. You get to learn about all sorts of different ways to do things, and given advice as to the benefits & risks for each method. I think it's a great course for divers doing wreck diving in the UK. Pick your poison, Stuffed long hose/ hog rig, it's all covered and open for practice.

I also think courses offered by TDI, GUE & IANTD are great too, but it all comes down to one thing. Your instructor.

The BSAC has some exceptional ERD instructors, and the ones I know personally, (Graeme B, Jack I, and Gareth L) teach from the heart and from their varied experience. I couldn't really care what the C Card agency says, just as long as the guy teaching believes in the system and regularly dives the system. Having a diver who also knows the BSAC club system and rescue/dive marshalling is a big bonus if you intend doing this type of diving in the branch.

So when picking your course, be sure to pick a good instructor, and get training that suits your needs.

/Matt

BSAC ERD Diver number 30, 1998 model. :cool:

[Richard Greenwood]

The BSAC has some exceptional ERD instructors, and the ones I know personally, (Graeme B, Jack I, and Gareth L) teach from the heart and from their varied experience. I couldn't really care what the C Card agency says, just as long as the guy teaching believes in the system and regularly dives the system. Having a diver who also knows the BSAC club system and rescue/dive marshalling is a big bonus if you intend doing this type of diving in the branch.

So when picking your course, be sure to pick a good instructor, and get training that suits your needs.

/Matt



Would agree with you re picking the right instructor. I did my ERD course with Graeme B, and found him to be an excellent instructor. I therefore learnt a hell of a lot, and really enjoyed the course. Enabled me to do a couple more years of this sort of diving, and I've now progressed to a Normoxic Trimix qual. I am very interested in seeing how the BSAC mix course develop in the next couple of years.

Richard

[John Williams]

That worked well didn't it Tristan?;)

I guess the problem is that when you view these froums on "hybrid" view ...the default view ....you don't get to the instruction to split the thread from a SysAdmin/Moderator until after you've already replied in the main thread.

Perhaps a note actually in the thread to that effect is what is called for.

We are after all only thick divers :rolleyes: (and they don't come much more keen and opinionated than the techie variety!):p

John
:)

[Tristan Green]

Perhaps a note actually in the thread to that effect is what is called for.

We are after all only thick divers :rolleyes: (and they don't come much more keen and opinionated than the techie variety!):p

John
Hi John,

I'll bear that in mind and leave a trail of breadcrumbs for you next time I move something. :o

I'm only a thick admin, after all :D

Cheers,
Tristan

[edit]
Hang on - I thought I did : http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1766&postcount=49
I take your point that if you view it in threaded or hybrid mode you wouldn't notice this post. I note that every post has the same title as the original - I'll have to remember to change the title in my posts from now on when it's a redirect.[edit]

[Ian@1904]

I have just been offered this training for later in the year. I already dive on nitrox, twins, and occasionally one stage. So doing this course is both logical to make me safer and sounds fun, if hard work.

I have trawled around but cannot find the actual syllabus and kit requirements - eg do I need two stages for the course, and must they be of a minimum size.

Please could someone post a link to the requirements, thanks.

[mark - sandman]

Shame its only for O/S divers...

[Nick Kay]

I have just been offered this training for later in the year. I already dive on nitrox, twins, and occasionally one stage. So doing this course is both logical to make me safer and sounds fun, if hard work.

I have trawled around but cannot find the actual syllabus and kit requirements - eg do I need two stages for the course, and must they be of a minimum size.

Please could someone post a link to the requirements, thanks.

Hi Ian
1. Who is running your course? I'd like to work towards my ERD Instructor rating, so I'd be interested in doing an observe/assist.
2. Oops, so what are the dates?
3. PM me with your email address and I'll send to you the original of the write-up I did for Dive when I did my ERD

[Chris Cherrington]

I have just been offered this training for later in the year. I already dive on nitrox, twins, and occasionally one stage. So doing this course is both logical to make me safer and sounds fun, if hard work.

I have trawled around but cannot find the actual syllabus and kit requirements - eg do I need two stages for the course, and must they be of a minimum size.

Please could someone post a link to the requirements, thanks.

All I can find for you...

http://www.bsac.org/techserv/syllabus/erdsyl.htm

Chris

[Nick Kay]

Theory:
In all honesty, not much more than "Advanced Nitrox", plus:
- More thought about DIve Planning, backup: resources, gas, etc
- Run-times, use of (eg) ProPlanner
- Mind-set
- Kit config (sort of)

Practical (or at least how it was on the course I did)
- Dive 1 (Capernwray):
-- Buoyancy, dsmb skills (mode water "blue" deploy with less than +/- .25m change)
-- Use of long hose
-- Gas shutdown
-- remove/swap stages around
- Dive 2 (Tyne):
-- plan, execute dive according to runtimes, accurate depth, time, air planning/adherence
- Dive 3 (Largs):
-- As above, but as an "assessment"
-- Act as "RHIB windscreen" for NDO :D (surface conditions were not exactly "ideal")

[Gareth]

Nick

Can I suggest that you talk, or email, Dave Lock.

I believe that to gain the Instructor qualification for ERD that you need an ERD instructor Traineer, or at least an ERD instructor who is approved to train ERD instructors (which might not be quite the same thing).

There has certainly been a review of all of the technical Instructors, & approval procedures. As well as the on going review of the actual 'technical diving' qualifications & syllabus.

Dave is the man in the know as to where we are & where we are going.

Cheers

Gareth

[Nick Kay]

Nick
Can I suggest that you talk, or email, Dave Lock.
Been in contact with Dave, awaiting another response (from a couple of weeks ago) - see below

I believe that to gain the Instructor qualification for ERD that you need an ERD instructor Trainer, or at least an ERD instructor who is approved to train ERD instructors (which might not be quite the same thing).
Thats the problem - there are some ERD courses being run - but by ERD Instructors with no ERDIT on the course, so have asked Dave Lock if I can do assists with ERDIs and then a final "assessment" via an ERDIT (thats the answer I'm waiting for). So, presuming the answer to that question is "Yes", assists on courses would be gratefully appreciated...

There has certainly been a review of all of the technical Instructors, & approval procedures. As well as the on going review of the actual 'technical diving' qualifications & syllabus.
And (I believe) a fair number of rescinded ERDI tickets?

[Richard Greenwood]

- Dive 3 (Largs):
-- As above, but as an "assessment"
-- Act as "RHIB windscreen" for NDO :D (surface conditions were not exactly "ideal")

Not ideal - now that's an understatement, Nick!!!! Still trying to get that day out of my head!!

Richard

[Dave Lock]

Hi Nick,

I answered your mail as a personal message but to clarify:

Only ERD Instructor Trainers can qualify ERD Instructors

If you want to attend an ERD as an "observer" - no teaching I don't have an issue, it would help getting to know the course material

It was necessary to remove Instructor status from some people as they hadn't taught a course since qualifying and don't dive in the ERD way

This meant that we could bring all "Technical Instructors" under the same QA process, link on the BSAC WWW pages

This will be redressed latter in the year with a Workshop, I'm sure you're name is on the list. This hasn't been finalised yet as we're busy with other courses

Cheers,

Dave