View Full Version : Ideas for a freediving techniques SDC
Ben Panter
19-01-2006, 13:57
I mentioned somewhere in another thread that I would quite like to do a "free-diving techniques" SDC. Since I've only ever snorkelled rather than doing freediving, I'm not really sure what it could entail. My aim for doing such a course would be to learn methods to train myself to get longer on the bottom from every breath.
From a few websites I've picked up some words that sound interesting. I guess what I'd like is for others to contribute more words, and tell me which ones are teachable in a weekend, possibly one day in a pool and one day in openwater. Then maybe the set could form a skeleton to hang an SDC round. Anyway, without further ado:
Finning styles: flutter, frog and dolphin.
Fetal position on surface and why you do it.
Perfecting duckdives with minimal effort
Streamlining - and handsfree ear clearing.
Breathing control - what is this Buddah breathing thing?
Complimentary Exercises - is Yoga useful?
Maybe someone (Nigel?) has done the course at SETT and could suggest some other bits.
Ben
Have I missed something today, am I in the wrong forum aren't we members of the British SUBAQUA Club
Why would we need a SDC for freediving :confused:
Nigel Hewitt
19-01-2006, 14:09
Maybe someone (Nigel?) has done the course at SETT and could suggest some other bits.I assume, since you mention me, that you've seen this (http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/stuff/2004-01-10/index.html)?
* A freediving buddy - why you take it in turns.
* Rescue - 101 uses for a DSMBi
probably lots more but I'm still only a beginner.
Have I missed something today, am I in the wrong forum aren't we members of the British SUBAQUA Club
Why would we need a SDC for freediving :confused:Why would we need a snorkelling bit?
Ben Panter
19-01-2006, 14:26
Have I missed something today, am I in the wrong forum aren't we members of the British SUBAQUA Club
Why would we need a SDC for freediving :confused:
Have a look at the title of this forum Fiona... :)
Ben Panter
19-01-2006, 14:29
I assume, since you mention me, that you've seen this (http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/stuff/2004-01-10/index.html)?
That's the one. Cheers Nigel.
Take no notice of the naysayers Ben.
Although I can't see myself becoming a regular freediver, I would be interested in a freediving SDC.
I've read Nigel's report of his Freediving course at Horsea, and it sounds like fun and I'd love to give it a go. But the course he went on was quite pricey. IIRC.
Janos
I assume, since you mention me, that you've seen this (http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/stuff/2004-01-10/index.html)?
* A freediving buddy - why you take it in turns.
* Rescue - 101 uses for a DSMBi
probably lots more but I'm still only a beginner.Nice write up.
Breathe has an E on the end, though.
Nigel Hewitt
19-01-2006, 15:01
Breathe has an E on the end, though.
And since breath is a word all my fancy spell-checkers can't save my sorry neck.
Andy Wade
19-01-2006, 16:14
I mentioned somewhere in another thread that I would quite like to do a "free-diving techniques" SDC. Since I've only ever snorkelled rather than doing freediving, I'm not really sure what it could entail. My aim for doing such a course would be to learn methods to train myself to get longer on the bottom from every breath.
From a few websites I've picked up some words that sound interesting. I guess what I'd like is for others to contribute more words, and tell me which ones are teachable in a weekend, possibly one day in a pool and one day in openwater. Then maybe the set could form a skeleton to hang an SDC round. Anyway, without further ado:
Finning styles: flutter, frog and dolphin.
Fetal position on surface and why you do it.
Perfecting duckdives with minimal effort
Ben
Personally I've always favoured the feet first descent to start with and then do a part forward roll once you get under the surface, it also makes for less fuss and splashing at the surface. I find it to be less effort than the standard duck dive. It depends what position you're in to start with, I guess.
Streamlining - and handsfree ear clearing.
Ben
As you're probably aware, various ear clearing techniques are listed and described in the BSAC Wiki
http://bsacforum.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Ear_Clearing_Methods
Breathing control - what is this Buddah breathing thing?
Complimentary Exercises - is Yoga useful?
Ben
There's also a page in the BSAC Wiki about reducing heavy breathing. IMO it's just as valid for snorkellers as for scuba divers.
http://bsacforum.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Heavy_Breathing
Maybe someone (Nigel?) has done the course at SETT and could suggest some other bits.
Ben
Nigel Hewitt
19-01-2006, 17:19
Personally I've always favoured the feet first descent to start with and then do a part forward roll once you get under the surface, it also makes for less fuss and splashing at the surface. I find it to be less effort than the standard duck dive. It depends what position you're in to start with, I guess.I think it rather depends on how much buoyancy you carry. I was taught to aim to be just bouyant on the surface so a duck dive and fin down is the only way. This leaves me fractionally negative at about 15m which is the current limit of my comfort zone.
Dive computers just hate 70m/min ascent rates.
Andy Wade
19-01-2006, 17:32
I think it rather depends on how much buoyancy you carry. I was taught to aim to be just bouyant on the surface so a duck dive and fin down is the only way. This leaves me fractionally negative at about 15m which is the current limit of my comfort zone.
Dive computers just hate 70m/min ascent rates.
Yep, same buoyancy setting for me too.
If vertical in the water at the surface, all you have to do is fin upwards a bit, and the weight of your body (the bit that's out of the water) does the rest.
If you're swimming along looking for something to snorkel down to, then the duck dive is best of course.
Nigel Hewitt
19-01-2006, 17:50
Yep, same buoyancy setting for me too.
If vertical in the water at the surface, all you have to do is fin upwards a bit, and the weight of your body (the bit that's out of the water) does the rest.
If you're swimming along looking for something to snorkel down to, then the duck dive is best of course.I'll play with that. I've not tried it that way. I suspect my big long floppy fins might not like going backwards for the first bit but that maybe a non-problem as I'm hardly going far.
Have a look at the title of this forum Fiona... :)
Yep in the snorkelling section since when did freedivers use a snorkel :D
Andy Wade
19-01-2006, 20:03
I'll play with that. I've not tried it that way. I suspect my big long floppy fins might not like going backwards for the first bit but that maybe a non-problem as I'm hardly going far.
It's a technique worth acquiring IMO.
Imagine you're on the side of the pool facing the water, and you want to enter feet first and continue straight down, your weight will push you straight down under the water anyway and all you do then is a half forward roll and you're in the position for finning down, this is a bit like that.
Of course you won't have quite as much impetus with finning upwards as from the height of the poolside but practise can make it very efficient as a way of getting under the water easily. With your big floppy fins I bet you can get quite far out of the water with less effort than my normal dive fins, and this ought to compensate for the awkwardness of your floppy fins descending feet first before the forward roll.
ISTR it was a 'taught' technique with old BSAC Snorkel Diver. I'm not sure if it still is though.
Good luck with it, hopefully it will enhance your diving. :)
Andy Wade
19-01-2006, 20:05
Yep in the snorkelling section since when did freedivers use a snorkel :D
LOL. Nice one. :D
Maybe there should be a freediving forum then. :eek:
iain aitchison
19-01-2006, 23:26
Dear Ben,
writing a SDC is a minor epic. Reckon on 2000 emails and a few years of work.
Serviously it would be a good one to do and would do much to abate the lesser than diving image of snorkelling. There is a lot out there to read and look through. Most of the good stuff and all the books I have on it are in German.
The SDC must focus on the depth side and the deep rescue side. With both come the safety which is so fundamental as the depth increases. Even the sport free diving stuff is logistically challenging once the game is raised - and it must be to leave snorkelling behind. Learning correct weighting and dive prep and breathing techniques should be in there too. The correct weighting is aparently positive buoyancy from 3m to surface for dives to 10m and from 6m to surface if going to 20m or so. Success on the dive is more about breathing correctly before and after the dive and not thinking about not breathing while diving. A lot, nearly all is a mind game. There is the training/preparation before the dive - being fit, learning to breathe correctly and to relax is most of that.
The contradiction is that the diving is free - no rules, no qualifications and no limits.
Do it. It would be good for the club.
Ben Panter
20-01-2006, 07:51
Yep in the snorkelling section since when did freedivers use a snorkel :D
Ah... now I get it. Ho ho. :)
It was more freediving skills applied to snorkelling that I was interested in. While I'm keen to have a go at freediving, I'm more interested in techniques to develop longer snorkel dives.
cheers,
Ben
Nigel Hewitt
20-01-2006, 08:15
It was more freediving skills applied to snorkelling that I was interested in. While I'm keen to have a go at freediving, I'm more interested in techniques to develop longer snorkel dives.Snorkeling and Free Diving are very different animals. Both the road racer and the mountain biker use push bikes but they use very different techniques and equipment.
The snorkel, for instance, is a CO2 trap and a free diver wouldn't be seen dead with one but for cruising the surface it is an ideal tool. A low volume mask is probably not much of a worry to a snorkeler but having felt my standard scuba mask trying to embed itself into my face because I no longer have the volume left to equalise it, despite using packing techniques before I dive, I know why I bought one. Heck... when does a scuba diver or snorkeler ever know about equalising a mask?
The snorkel, for instance, is a CO2 trap and a free diver wouldn't be seen dead with one but for cruising the surface it is an ideal tool.
Could you breathe in through your SRD (or "snorkel" if you must:D) and out through your nose? I know it's not a good habit to get into for other types of diving, but horses for courses and all that.
Janos
On Eleuthera in the Bahamas we do a lot of spear-fishing. That means going down to a big fish seen from the surface, spearing it, chasing it to get hold of the spear and then bringing it up. This all has to happen in one go otherwise you will invariably lose either spear or fish or both.
One trick is to go down in a relaxed manner. Dont try to save time getting down fast because you will only burn up your air-reserves. Once down totaly relax and enjoy it.
What also helps is regular free-diving because it expands the lungs. Dont expect to be in form until you have done at least 2-3 days of free-diving.
Fish we eat are grouper, hogfish, mutton fish, snapper, large jacks... and after a days fishing they do taste good!http://www.bahamasbay.com/Activities/Fishing/Spear-_Fishing/spear-_fishing.html
What about contacting the British Freediving Association (http://www.britishfreediving.org)? I'd be surprised if they weren't interested in doing something that might increase the profile of freediving. The Association's Chairperson, Emma, was one of the instructors when I did the Intro course at the SETT a few weeks ago.
Ben Panter
05-06-2006, 11:53
Cheers Tricky.
The project is on hold until I get back to Scotland in the autumn. I'm still very keen to investigate the possibilities of getting something like this running but I'd rather be in a position of knowledge beforehand!
Ben
AndyDavis
08-06-2006, 11:49
Having just returned from the Maldives...I can vouch that possessing the ability to freedive down to 10-15m certainly enhanced my experiences with the 3 Whalesharks we encountered. I've had no specific training, beyond basic snorkeling and duck-diving...so would be very interested in advancing my skills through a Free-Diving SDC.
Whilst Free-Diving may be beyond the scope of 'snorkelling', I think that there may be some considerable market for these skills. What is more, they would also serve to increase interest in the non-scuba activities of the club...and would offer training that isn't readily available through other agencies. Plus, of course the simple fact that 'Free-Diving' is a lot more sexy and appealing than 'snorkelling'...although, I am biased as 'The big Blue' is my favorite film! LOL
So...Free-Diving SDC? My only question is....where can I sign up for it? :)
AndyDavis
08-06-2006, 11:57
The contradiction is that the diving is free - no rules, no qualifications and no limits.
Do it. It would be good for the club.
I have certainly limited my diving to 15m, as I have no idea what physiological or physical issues come into force if I went deeper. I have had dives where I physically and mentally felt capable of going further, but didn't because of ignorance. I also have no idea how to train myself to go further, longer or deeper on a breathe.
Another factor, which has weighed on my mind is that of mixing Free-Diving and SCUBA diving. Mostly, I have worried about damaging my ears and missing out on subsequent diving...but I also worry about how what sort of surface interval should be left from scuba to free-diving (and vice versa?). Certainly, the re-compression of micro-bubbles etc must be an issue for free-divers after scuba?
Andy, of you can afford it, I can highly recommend the Intro course at the SETT run by Deeperblue.net - you even get a freediving qualification at the end of it (AIDA Deep Tank Freediver).
err why launch a freediving SDC, when the courses are already run by the British freediving association (BFA).
it only costs 30GBP to do the things you wanted in the SDC, taught by a AIDA instructor and future follow up sessions are free.
the open water part is more expensive i think 145, but again your moving onto a new sport and danger. the BFA also sorts the insurances for you.
I've launched a BFA affliated freediving club and its great. PM me or email me for more info. sorry a shameless plug here as well
but seriously i dont think BSAC can run a SDC on freediving that will be on par with the BFA simply down to experience and also getting it recognised. The BFA sessions are recognised by AIDA, whereas BSAC's probably wont. Even the cost of it will be similar so why not get it done by the AIDA.
Michael Purcell
10-06-2006, 12:54
but seriously i dont think BSAC can run a SDC on freediving that will be on par with the BFA simply down to experience and also getting it recognised. The BFA sessions are recognised by AIDA, whereas BSAC's probably wont. Even the cost of it will be similar so why not get it done by the AIDA.
And why should we offer Open Water courses...The PADI course is comparable and costs about the same...;)
And why should we offer Open Water courses...The PADI course is comparable and costs about the same...;)
thats even more debate-able! :p
sharkhunter
10-06-2006, 20:02
Snorkeling and Free Diving are very different animals. Both the road racer and the mountain biker use push bikes but they use very different techniques and equipment.
The snorkel, for instance, is a CO2 trap and a free diver wouldn't be seen dead with one but for cruising the surface it is an ideal tool. A low volume mask is probably not much of a worry to a snorkeler but having felt my standard scuba mask trying to embed itself into my face because I no longer have the volume left to equalise it, despite using packing techniques before I dive, I know why I bought one. Heck... when does a scuba diver or snorkeler ever know about equalising a mask?
Sorry Nigel, your not quite correct here. Freediving (or skin diving to use it's original name) and snorkeling do go hand in hand and freediving techniques can benefit any snorkeler/skin diver and some can even benefit scuba divers.
There is nothing quite like slowly and silently descending to swim with the fish.
Before the invention of SCUBA there was freediving, originally referred to as skin diving. Freediving isn't just about diving without SCUBA equipment and plunging to unimaginable depths just for the hell of it.
If you can hold your breath to 15 feet, equalize your ears, and still have a few seconds left over for “underwater sightseeing,” then you are a freediver (skin diver). Though professional freedivers plunge to deeper depths for longer amounts of time, you don’t have to. I have been skin diving (freediving) for over 30 years and scuba diving for over 20 years, and to this day I still find snorkeling along a tropical reef then diving down to swim with fish more satisfying than scuba. It's all about the freedom and being at one with the sea and it's creatures. :)
If anyone is that interested in me writing up some basic techniques and what is the best equipment to use, please post a note to this post and I will do so. May take me a little while to write it all up though as I'm not the best writer in the world. I'm still trying to get my Bahamas Shark diving trip written up for Alison, but it is taking me ages. :p
PS:I wear a snorkel all the time, and only take it off when I dive as I don't want to scare the fish below as it makes a horrid noise when it fills up with water. The only thing you won't catch me using are snorkel or scuba fins as they are rubbish, even for the sports they were designed for. Freedivers blades (fins) are the best kept secret that most freediver don't share, once you get used to them you'll never ever enter the water wearing enything else, even for scuba.
Neither snorkeling or freediving are a race, they are both a slow peaceful paced sport and very similar, the only difference is one is on the surface and the other is underwater. With the one set of kit (mask, snorkel and fins) you'll be covered for snorkeling, scuba and skin diving.
sharkhunter
10-06-2006, 22:20
Yep in the snorkelling section since when did freedivers use a snorkel :D
I do :D
Ben Panter
11-06-2006, 10:20
If anyone is that interested in me writing up some basic techniques and what is the best equipment to use, please post a note to this post and I will do so. May take me a little while to write it all up though as I'm not the best writer in the world. I'm still trying to get my Bahamas Shark diving trip written up for Alison, but it is taking me ages. :p
Yes Please!
cheers,
Ben
sharkhunter
11-06-2006, 14:30
Yes Please!
cheers,
Ben
OK Ben, will do. Give me a a few days to write them up. :)
In the meant time I'll share this very special encounter I had while freediving. :)
In the 30years I've been skin diving I never really knew how far I used to descend until a few years ago, this was when I got my first computer that had a freedive mode on it rather than just scuba modes, it was a Suunto Mosquito and the first time I got to use it was a dive trip to the Red Sea.
I normally like a couple of days acclimatising and doing some snorkeling and skin diving before scuba diving, as it clears the sinuses and makes scuba diving a lot less hassle and less problems equalising, so we had a few days before we started diving to snorkel and chill out.
Over the first two days I enjoyed snorkeling with my wife along the reef at Ras Um Sid and I'd dive down to about 18 to 20 mts to take pictures and swim with the fish, which I'd always thought was the max I'd ever gone. On the third day I went for an early morning snorkel on my own. While I was drifting along the reef a shape court my eye down below, so I decided to go down and see what it was. I took my usual three breaths of air and duck dived and slowly descended letting the weight of my body and weight belt do the work. Slowly the shape got bigger, it was a huge turtle feeding on the reef at 20mts depth. As I got nearer he turned towards the blue and slowly swam so I decided to follow him and take some pictures, and maybe he was going up to breath so I'd get some nice shots. I kept a good 6 feet distance from him so not to spook him, and just followed him. He slowly glided over the sea bed and was so beautiful to watch. After a while I checked my Mosquito and nearly had a panic attack, ..... I was at 35mts and been down for near 3mins, the first thing that when through my head was "oops, I've broken those Red Sea rules, and my god will I black out in the shallows on my ascent and I'm out here on my own" so I pointed for the surface and started kicking. The surface seamed miles away, and as I slowly ascended I noticed the turtle was ascending right next to me. After what seam an eternity we broke the surface together and I started gasping air into my lungs and so did the turtle....."WOW what a rush, that was amazing, how was it for you" I shouted out loud , I was feeling a little light headed from the lack of water pressure and O2. The turtle look at me while he sucked air into his lungs as if to agree, then after a minute or two I watched him descended back into the depths. After he had disappeared I check my Mosquito and saw I'd dive to a maximum of 35.3mts with a total dive time of 4mins. I said to myself, now that's what I call an amazing freedive, and headed back to the reef.
To me, this is what skin diving (freediving) is all about, having amazing encounters with the seas creatures.
Michael Purcell
11-06-2006, 15:22
OK Ben, will do. Give me a a few days to write them up. :)
In the meant time I'll share this very special encounter I had while freediving. :)
In the 30years I've been skin diving I never really knew how far I used to descend until a few years ago, this was when I got my first computer that had a freedive mode on it rather than just scuba modes, it was a Suunto Mosquito and the first time I got to use it was a dive trip to the Red Sea.
I normally like a couple of days acclimatising and doing some snorkeling and skin diving before scuba diving, as it clears the sinuses and makes scuba diving a lot less hassle and less problems equalising, so we had a few days before we started diving to snorkel and chill out.
Over the first two days I enjoyed snorkeling with my wife along the reef at Ras Um Sid and I'd dive down to about 18 to 20 mts to take pictures and swim with the fish, which I'd always thought was the max I'd ever gone. On the third day I went for an early morning snorkel on my own. While I was drifting along the reef a shape court my eye down below, so I decided to go down and see what it was. I took my usual three breaths of air and duck dived and slowly descended letting the weight of my body and weight belt do the work. Slowly the shape got bigger, it was a huge turtle feeding on the reef at 20mts depth. As I got nearer he turned towards the blue and slowly swam so I decided to follow him and take some pictures, and maybe he was going up to breath so I'd get some nice shots. I kept a good 6 feet distance from him so not to spook him, and just followed him. He slowly glided over the sea bed and was so beautiful to watch. After a while I checked my Mosquito and nearly had a panic attack, ..... I was at 35mts and been down for near 3mins, the first thing that when through my head was "oops, I've broken those Red Sea rules, and my god will I black out in the shallows on my ascent and I'm out here on my own" so I pointed for the surface and started kicking. The surface seamed miles away, and as I slowly ascended I noticed the turtle was ascending right next to me. After what seam an eternity we broke the surface together and I started gasping air into my lungs and so did the turtle....."WOW what a rush, that was amazing, how was it for you" I shouted out loud , I was feeling a little light headed from the lack of water pressure and O2. The turtle look at me while he sucked air into his lungs as if to agree, then after a minute or two I watched him descended back into the depths. After he had disappeared I check my Mosquito and saw I'd dive to a maximum of 35.3mts with a total dive time of 4mins. I said to myself, now that's what I call an amazing freedive, and headed back to the reef.
To me, this is what skin diving (freediving) is all about, having amazing encounters with the seas creatures.
Many would say this isn't freediving.
Many feel freediving is an inward experience.
Many would say you were a "stroke" based on your reports (of unsafe practices).
Perhaps I'm not one of those people but I couldn't help but point it out. :D
Badders (Dave)
11-06-2006, 18:03
That is a lovely story. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Micheal might have a point about the risk thing but hey, most people put themselves in far greater danger driving their cars to fast, because they're late for a meeting or work, how mad's that!!
Badders
sharkhunter
11-06-2006, 18:19
Many would say this isn't freediving.
Many feel freediving is an inward experience.
Many would say you were a "stroke" based on your reports (of unsafe practices).
Perhaps I'm not one of those people but I couldn't help but point it out. :D
Let me set some misconceived conceptions people seam to have about freediving. :rolleyes:
Freediving is not just about seeing how deep you can go for a competition and just some inward experience. Freediving (skin diving) pre-dates competitive freediving and the main reason for most to go down was spear fishing, like Raymondo Bucher who 1949, in the bay of Syracuse, reached the depth of 30 meters using a weighted spear gun. Hans Has and the Taylors all used to freedive while spear fishing, even the great Pipin Ferreras was a freediving spear fisherman long before competitive depth records.
OK, there is this new breed of freedivers that have just got involved in freediving as a competitive sport for the fame, (I won't mention names), but there is a hell of a lot more who freedive in it's original pure form and do it for a reason, like speafishing (not that I agree with spearfishing, I only shoot fish with a camera), photography or just to swim with the fish.
Free diving is a silent, efficient way to sneak up on your pray. Most people have been freediving without instruction for years, so don't get the wrong idea that freediving is all about competitive depth records and controlling bodies with rules.
If you can dive down on to 15ft and stay there for a few seconds for sightseeing, then your freediving.
from "Dive Global" website:
"There is nothing like the feeling of diving into the deep without the constrictions of a tank on your back and regulator in your mouth. And you can sneak up on fish without the bubbles! This sport has gained a lot in popularity in the last few years."
From "The Zen of Freediving" website
Twenty seconds later you are moving along the bottom about 50 feet deep, effortless and free, watching the antics of damselfish, triggers and the constant schools of mangrove snappers among the bright hues of sponges, gorgonians, and complex coral colonies.
from "Wikipedia" website
Free-diving refers to various aquatic activities that share the practice of breath-hold diving. Examples include breathhold spearfishing, freedive photography, Apnea competitions and, to a degree, snorkeling*. The activity that garners the public's attention is Competitive Apnea, considered an extreme sport, where divers attempt to attain great depths, times or distances on a single breath and without direct assistance of breathing apparatus.
*Please note the snorkeling here, and who said they don't go hand in hand!! :D So Ben, your original post was not out of place like some would try and make out, hence I offered to write up some basic help. ;)
Passing on some of the knowledge to help people like Ben so he gets more from his snorkeling and the ability to dive down in a safe way to see the fish is a lot more fulfilling to me than setting some silly depth record just to get fame.
IMHO anything that is done as a competition to set a record is not "free"diving...... it has rules and regulations attached to it, so how is it that "free". :D
AndyDavis
25-07-2006, 13:57
Have I missed something today, am I in the wrong forum aren't we members of the British SUBAQUA Club
Why would we need a SDC for freediving :confused:
Errrrrr....because FREEDIVING is a SUBAQUA activity.
Sub = Under
Aqua = Water
...or wer you confusing SCUBA with SUBAQUA?
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