View Full Version : Wing Riding Up
julian.carroll
07-06-2011, 22:02
Chaps,
My wing and harness keep riding up during my dives and it annoys me. A typical dive starts off with superb trim and ends with me trying to pull the bloody thing down as the regs run into the back of my head and I try to battle a head-down trim. I have a crotch strap and have it as tight as I am willing to go. It's a DiveRite trans-plate harness with stainless back plate. Anybody have any ideas?
Thanks,
Julian
ould it be the wasit strap which isnt as tight as it could be?
Could be your shoulder straps are too loose.
Richard Whitcombe
08-06-2011, 00:12
First bet - waist strap too loose.
Second bet - shoulder straps too loose.
Assuming its a proper backplate/wing and harness setup the crotch strap shouldn't be tight - it should go to maybe an inch above the waist strap length wise.
The shoulder strap tightness is mainly to position the height of the tanks on your back - generally should should be able to put a fist or at the very least a few fingers through the gap without struggling. The actual securing of a wing should be done with the waist strap in terms of tightness.
sidney109
08-06-2011, 08:43
i would also go with your crotch strap is far too loose/missing.
bythesea
08-06-2011, 09:26
The crotch strap should make no difference if the shoulder straps are properly adjusted, my bet is it is these that are the issue.
Here is a guide to harness adjustment.
http://dir-diver.com/en/equipment/backplate_adjustment.html
so to some up...
some or all of the harness is too loose.
Why not try tightening one for the next time so it is borderline unbearable and see how that goes. Trial and error should see you sorted in about 3 or 4 dives. Could knock those out in a day at the local puddle if you wanted to.
Or you could try the same at a pool night but if the problem is only at the end of the dive, might not be so conclusive
bythesea
08-06-2011, 14:53
Trial and error
Really no need, just follow the guide I linked and job done, works every time...
That DIR guide is very good I followed it when rigging my new harness/backplate and it was perfect 1st time. :)
julian.carroll
12-06-2011, 20:46
...
Here is a guide to harness adjustment.
http://dir-diver.com/en/equipment/backplate_adjustment.html
Cheers bythesea. Looking at the setup there, I think I have the shoulder straps meeting the waist strap far too far forward so they're coming over my shoulders and straight down instead of running back towards the plate. I've moved them back and I'll give them a go. I'll let you know how I get on next time in diving.
Hickdive
13-06-2011, 12:25
Cheers bythesea. Looking at the setup there, I think I have the shoulder straps meeting the waist strap far too far forward so they're coming over my shoulders and straight down instead of running back towards the plate. I've moved them back and I'll give them a go. I'll let you know how I get on next time in diving.
I'm puzzled by this.
A HOG-style harness is a single piece of webbing so I can't see how the harness can do anything other than run back towards the plate unless your harness has some unusual belt-and-braces design where the shoulder straps are not the same piece of webbing as the waist strap.
Can you elaborate on how your harness is threaded please?
I'm puzzled by this.
Can you elaborate on how your harness is threaded please?
Well, it's supposed to look a little like this (http://www.diverite.com/products/catalog/backplatesandharnesses/t3200)...
:)
ChristianG
13-06-2011, 14:50
Well, it's supposed to look a little like this
Mark,
There is no way that you can get that into a DIR configuration. :(
Richard Whitcombe
13-06-2011, 15:12
Jesus. Talk about an over complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist!
you mean like not everyone wanting a one peice home made harness instead prefering to have a flexible one which they can undo a clip on cause they may not be as flexible as others?
ChristianG
13-06-2011, 16:00
you mean like not everyone wanting a one peice home made harness instead prefering to have a flexible one which they can undo a clip on cause they may not be as flexible as others?
You may not be a proponent of DIR/GUE (nor am I necessarily) but that does not mean that it doesn't work - and well. No, some cannot go that route (as Nigel H knows well as one example) but then DIR guys are supposed to be fully fit and Nigel (and others) isn't that.
This is yet another activity where "horses for courses" has, or can have, an altogether different meaning, doesn't however mean that one should cock a snoot at those luckier than others.
GUE stands for minimalism (or the KISS principle if you prefer) and that is something that I hold close to my heart, within my own physical limits.
YMMV.
Richard Whitcombe
13-06-2011, 16:05
you mean like not everyone wanting a one peice home made harness instead prefering to have a flexible one which they can undo a clip on cause they may not be as flexible as others?
Who said anything about the 1 piece harness? This disaster of a harness as odd wide shoulder padding which does nothing, some odd swivel ring on the bottom of the chest strap that does nothing. In addition to that its got a cross chest clip which does nothing and about 4 or 5 other fastex connectors that also do nothing of use.
We aren't talking break point or non-break point here, its just taken many many unnecessary features and molded it together into a harness that solves no problem that actually exists. Clever though if people will fall for it and buy it.
Mark,
There is no way that you can get that into a DIR configuration. :(
I know, but that is what the OP has said that he has.
He's had lot's of good advice, but it would seem that people didn't read all of the first post...
:)
ChristianG
13-06-2011, 16:35
I know, but that is what the OP has said that he has.
Having just been back to check on it all - he didn't mention DIR/GUE at all, in fact Julian seems to think that he can get that "piece of equipment" (I hesitate to call it what I really think) to act DIR - not possible.
So my apologies to you and a suggestion to Julian: do more homework before you buy stuff that may not necessarily be a top idea. As for your predicament, your guess is as good as mine but then (sorry) I was never much of a fan of Dive Rite stuff anyway.
This disaster of a harness as odd wide shoulder padding which does nothing,What it does it stop the straps chaffing the shoulders of your suit.
...some odd swivel ring on the bottom of the chest strap that does nothing.What it does is allow the shoulder strap to more closely follow the body. It helps to stops the webbing digging in your sides where it twists through 90 degrees.
In addition to that its got a cross chest clip which does nothing...The sternum strap keeps the shoulder straps pulled in tight. Quite useful for people of diminutive build.
...and about 4 or 5 other fastex connectors that also do nothing of use.Nope. There's a fastex clip on the sternum strap and one on each of the adjustable shoulder straps, same as a jacket BCD.
We aren't talking break point or non-break point here, its just taken many many unnecessary features and molded it together into a harness that solves no problem that actually exists. Clever though if people will fall for it and buy it.Before anyone had ever heard of DIR, adjustable harnesses, like the Transpac, were pretty common amongst techies. More common than one piece harnesses down here on the South Coast, I would have said. My backplate, circa 1995, came with such a harness and very comfortable it was too. When it wore out I moved over to a one piece, mainly because they are cheap and you don't need a Singer sewing machine to assemble one. Even so, I preferred the closer fit of the old bondage harness. One piece harnesses feel pretty sloppy in comparison to adjustable harnesses, in my experience. Harnesses are not something I am ever going to lose sleep over though.
Hickdive
14-06-2011, 10:34
No, I'm still puzzled.
Why would anyone refer to a guide to setting up an OPH when in fact they have a Transpac? It's like trying to adjust a dairy cow to look like a race horse.
Anyway, for anyone who is interested, the Transpac has a number of design features that actually arise from the fact it isn't an OPH. For example, the lower part of the shoulder harness between the ring and the backplate cannot twist like an OPH. Since it is that twist that adds lateral stability on an OPH, the Transpac has to have a chest strap to compensate for its absence.
I'm sure a Transpac is a great harness with many features that its users benefit from, as they should with something that costs over £200. However, I'm also sure that an OPH, properly set-up, offers a comfortable, secure, custom-fit for around £40 (plus a couple of quid for a clip for a shoulder break/extension if you want one)
bythesea
14-06-2011, 13:08
Why would anyone refer to a guide to setting up an OPH when in fact they have a Transpac?
Guess I should have read the OP properly eh? But still, if it helps it helps....
julian.carroll
14-06-2011, 18:58
Emmmm... who ever mentioned DIR? I said I used a transplate harness and asked for advice on it. At no point did I ever suggest I dive a DIR configuration so why does my original post, which was looking for friendly advice, have to descend into this nonsensical rant about single piece harnesses?
I don't like single piece harnesses, and I tried lots of other harnesses out there. I thought the transplate was the best, so I bought it. You may not have the same opinion, but why do you have to berate my choice? Do you even know the type of diving I do?
Thanks to all the people who responded with useful advice.
ChristianG
15-06-2011, 04:03
Emmmm... who ever mentioned DIR? I said I used a transplate harness and asked for advice on it. At no point did I ever suggest I dive a DIR configuration so why does my original post, which was looking for friendly advice, have to descend into this nonsensical rant about single piece harnesses?
Julian, this was taken from your 56th post on these forums, so you've been around. Threads have a habit of going off topic, just like a conversation in a pub really, and I was guilty as charged in assuming, without going back to re-read what you had said originally, that you had referred to DIR. In my case I said so, publicly, but then I was ever the one to assume that admitting when you're incorrect is "a good thing".
I don't like single piece harnesses, and I tried lots of other harnesses out there. I thought the transplate was the best, so I bought it. You may not have the same opinion, but why do you have to berate my choice? Do you even know the type of diving I do?
Can I turn that last question around? Should you have told us of the type of diving you do? I'd say, quite possibly.
If you ask for advice on forums such as these you're going to get the good, the bad and the unpalatable. By that last I mean stuff that you don't want to hear, such as, in this case, the efficacy (or otherwise) of a piece of equipment - no-one likes to be criticised. The BSAC Forums, in particular (IMNSHO) are very good at the former, rarely produce the middle option and, like all others, will offer opinions on the equipment in question, the unpalatable bit. Again, guilty as charged m'Lud - I don't much like that style of harness for several reasons and your question is actually a classic example of that - being one which shouldn't really have to be asked (if the device did its job properly).
So please, to mangle an American phrase, cut those that sought to criticise (however well-meant) just a little slack. :)
The advice given was sound, whether it was a DIR site or not. A harness is a harness, whether a one piece or a twenty piece. The root cause of the problem is still the same. Your crotch strap is too loose. I used to have the same problem with my transpac.
Julian, this was taken from your 56th post on these forums, so you've been around. Threads have a habit of going off topic, just like a conversation in a pub really,Well if we are using the pub analogy. There are a couple pubs that I avoid, because it seems like every Friday night a punch up kicks off over some tiny little thing. Someone criticised a football team or someone looked at someone else's girlfriend the wrong way. Apparently it's always the same old faces and whilst they may find the violence enjoyable, the local residents are finding it intolerable. This is just an analogy though.
In my case I said so, publicly, but then I was ever the one to assume that admitting when you're incorrect is "a good thing".And I thank you for taking the time. 'Correct' is a word that is much abused on forums, in my opinion of course.
Can I turn that last question around? Should you have told us of the type of diving you do? I'd say, quite possibly.If you feel you need more information, may I suggest asking for it. Making rash assumptions in public, about people you have never met, can be perceived as a little rude.
So please, to mangle an American phrase, cut those that sought to criticise (however well-meant) just a little slack. :)It is a question of balance in my view Christian. I like a good debate as much as the next man. You will often find me in animated conversation, with friends, in the corner of the pub and somehow, at the end of the evening, we manage to put it all aside and look forward to seeing each other again next week. Even so, I believe it is only a fun thing to do when the debate is balanced and the participants choose to be involved in it.
julian.carroll
19-06-2011, 14:14
Went diving yesterday with the shoulder straps set up better: sadly it was no better.
Do people normally wear the waist strap of the harness higher up their torso than their weight belt? Seems hard to get the waist strap comfortable with the weight belt in the way.
Richard Whitcombe
19-06-2011, 22:47
Regardless of the harness the waist strap is supposed to be worn in line with where it comes out of the plate not pulled up or down to where a belt should be.
julian.carroll
20-06-2011, 11:03
I'm being annoying now, amn't I? :o
ChristianG
20-06-2011, 13:48
I'm being annoying now, amn't I? :o
Julian,
You have had some excellent advice. You have also had some not so excellent advice based on the limited knowledge we had, at times, of your quandary.
None of us is god (that I don't believe in) but it seems that we have failed in this instance to provide a solution. Maybe you have to go elsewhere to get a "fix"? I, for one, am done here.
Julian. Up is a relative term. So if "up" for you means that the wing is moving towards your head then all you need to do is redistribute your weights so that you are head heavy. It follows that "up" then relates to the position of your lower limbs and that means that your shoulder straps will hold the wing "down". It also means that you can swim closer to the seabed and not kick up silt.
So there is no need to change anything except your position in the water.
Terry
The advice given was sound, whether it was a DIR site or not. A harness is a harness, whether a one piece or a twenty piece. The root cause of the problem is still the same. Your crotch strap is too loose. I used to have the same problem with my transpac.
I would listen to Garf and try his idea. Although a lot of people will poo-poo him purely because of his choice of training agency, from reading his posts they are usually pretty good advice. Especially as it seems he used to have a tanspac
If the whole set up is moving toward your head, try making the crotch strap a little tighter. If it is snug then there should be no room for movement.
Bear in mind that when you kitting up the harness will feel a lot tighter than when you are underwater as there is no bouyancy to offset the weight of the setup on the surface.
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