First Class Diver

[Bob Healey]

Just a question. Before anyone can gain the qualification of First Class Diver shouldn't they be able to show their proficiency at Snorkelling to Advanced Ocean Snorkel Diver Level at least, without crossing over?

Or should the title be changed to First Class SCUBA Diver? We are all divers snorkel and scuba.

Bob Healey ;)

[Adrian Kelland]

Just a question. Before anyone can gain the qualification of First Class Diver shouldn't they be able to show their proficiency at Snorkelling to Advanced Ocean Snorkel Diver Level at least, without crossing over?
Why? You have not given any reason for your suggestion for a required proficiency at snorkelling. If it can be the case that some snorkellers don't wish to use scuba, why should scuba divers be forced to use what many of us consider just a tool. DSMBs are probably used more.

Adrian

[Fiona]

As Bob has ended his post with a winking smiley I am assuming he is having a little jest.

We have all learnt to snorkel to some extent :D

Don't worry Adrian, I am an instructor so I can check you out if you want ;)

[Adrian Kelland]

As Bob has ended his post with a winking smiley I am assuming he is having a little jest.
If it is a troll, there could be penalties ... :)

[Bob Healey]

Yes I did, you missed off the second paragraph. The name of the qualification, how can someone be an all round DIVER unless they are totally proficienct at all the parts, therefore it should be First Class Scuba Diver and not just First Class Diver.

Bob

[Ben Panter]

Bob,
Just a question. Before anyone can gain the qualification of First Class Diver shouldn't they be able to show their proficiency at Snorkelling to Advanced Ocean Snorkel Diver Level at least, without crossing over?
No, I don't think so. FCD fits into the diving grades rather than snorkelling grades. Arguing semantics about the "diver" bit doesn't provide much amusement.

Ben (diver and snorkeller)

PS: I've said it before and I fear I will say it again, if you're after raising the profile of snorkelling within BSAC, I don't think the sniping that this thread has potential to degenerate to is the way to do it. Even with winkie smilies. Just IMHO, of course.

[Bob Healey]

If it is a troll, there could be penalties ... :)
Just pointing out that there are all sorts of DIVERS not just SCUBA.

Bob

[Bob Healey]

Please read all the entry prior to picking at part of it. I'm an advanced Snorkel Diver, and still a diver, just pointing out something that snorkellers have had to put up with for years.

Bob :rolleyes:

[Sean Gribben]

Do you not think it would be more appropriate to have a First Class Snorkeller Grade?
One for the Snorkelling NDC members and their working groups perhaps!!!

Sean :)

[Neil R]

Why Not , Change FCD to FCSuD ( First Class Scuba Diver ) And Add A New Grade Of FCSnD (First Class Snorkel Diver )
It would seem to make sence and have the parity across the grades

Well all dive just at different depth's with different equipment . ;)

[John Williams]

Just a question. Before anyone can gain the qualification of First Class Diver shouldn't they be able to show their proficiency at Snorkelling to Advanced Ocean Snorkel Diver Level at least, without crossing over?

Or should the title be changed to First Class SCUBA Diver? We are all divers snorkel and scuba.

Bob Healey ;)

Why without crossing over?:confused:
Surely crossovers are only allowed if the basic competence at that level has been shown at the level from which they cross?

So it's just another pointless hoop to jump through!:mad:

Of course - if you don't think the crossover is valid them please take that up with the snorkelling Chief Examiner and have the crossover re-examined.

I know where you are coming from Bob - but making suggestions (even in jest) that will alienate the very folk who can make crossovers and then support snorkelling is not helping the cause of snorkelling.:o

What we need to be doing is making snorkelling more attractive to SCUBA divers and make SCUBA divers more aware of snorkelling - through education, support and joint ventures (such as snorkellers coming on mainstream SDCs, or even inviting SCUBA divers to make up numbers on snorkelling SDCs and other events) etc

We are always hearing how there are insufficient numbers to run SDCs for SCUBA divers. I assume that the same is true for snorkellers?

If we combined resources (both instructors and students - wherever appropriate) then maybe we might improve our service to both sections...and forge some useful links between the two!:)

Forcing the issue will just create resentment and resistance to all the other good things that might happen.:rolleyes:

Just my thoughts on the matter of course!

Keep fighting the good fight!

John

[Sean Gribben]

Why on earth do we need to change the title for 1st Class Diver?
Are you proposing the same for Advanced Diver and Ocean Diver as well?

Sean

[John Williams]

Why Not , Change FCD to FCSuD ( First Class Scuba Diver ) And Add A New Grade Of FCSnD (First Class Snorkel Diver )
It would seem to make sence and have the parity across the grades

Well all dive just at different depth's with different equipment . ;)

I think that will just lead to confusion.

Leave the Scuba diving qualification title alone and form an equivalent level for snorkelling....it seems that the words Ocean Snorkel Diver are common to your qualifications - so First Class Ocean Snorkel Diver would seem to follow the progression?

John

[Mike Rowley]

Please read all the entry prior to picking at part of it. I'm an advanced Snorkel Diver, and still a diver, just pointing out something that snorkellers have had to put up with for years.

Bob :rolleyes:

How about BSAC Rebreather Snorkel Diver. CH4 at one end, CO2 at tother. Specially designed for very very short dives. You could call it a mixed gas snorkel!:p

Cheers

Mike

[Bob Healey]

Hi Sean,

Not really, but feel that before anyone should call themselves a diver should be proficient at all, if its only Scuba they are proficient at then they should be proud to call themselves Scuba Diver, like Snorkellers are proud to call themselves Snorkel Divers. To actually call themself a DIVER it follows they should be able to do all the disciplines to a similiar standard.

Don't think Ruth or Margaret would thank me for heaping more work on them.:D

Bob

[Neil R]

Sean , we are all divers , some do snorkel and some do scuba and some do both .
I wasn't surgesting that we have a complete change of grades .

[Bob Healey]

You write the SDC and I'm sure Sean's NDC Group will consider it.

Bob

[Chris Cherrington]

I have read this thread with a mixture of interest and amusement. I believe I may have an old snorkel somewhere in the garage I think although there are probably mice nesting in it by now.

So - as an ignorant person in the matter of snorkels - would someone please explain to me why there are different grades of snorkelers?

Thanks in advance,
Chris

[MattS]

To actually call themself a DIVER it follows they should be able to do all the disciplines to a similiar standard.I will look forward to the BSAC Skydiving SDC :rolleyes:

[John Williams]

Hi Sean,

Not really, but feel that before anyone should call themselves a diver should be proficient at all, if its only Scuba they are proficient at then they should be proud to call themselves Scuba Diver, like Snorkellers are proud to call themselves Snorkel Divers. To actually call themself a DIVER it follows they should be able to do all the disciplines to a similiar standard.

Bob

:eek:
Ever heard of a sportsman Bob?

Should a sportsman be an angler, a skier (downhill, slalom, jump, giant slalom, nordic etc), a diver, a footballer (including rugby football here), an ice-skater, a rower, a yachtsman, a driver (rally, formula 1, formula 2000, etc)

..and everything else before they can call themselves a sportsman?

;) I'm really at a loss as to what you are trying to acheive with this thread:confused:

it just seems to be aimed at generating conflict?

I'm hoping that it wont be seen by many - so that the bad feeling that it has the potential to generate is minimised!

John

[Bob Healey]

Hi John,
Two things: -
1) Snorkellers go on the same SDC's as Scuba Divers do now, we don't run our own purely for for Snorkellers, we integrate. Why have seperate SDC's for snorkellers? The only one that differs slightly is the Lifesaver ones. Myself and my 12year old son have just completed a PRM as snorkellers with the North West region, very successful and enjoyable it was. Other SDC's have also been successfully jointly run.
2) Crossover is down to the individual DO's not the Chief Examiner, he only deals with the Instructor Crossovers.

Bob

[Bob Healey]

Do you get a DCI in reverse in skydiving?

[John Williams]

I have read this thread with a mixture of interest and amusement. I believe I may have an old snorkel somewhere in the garage I think although there are probably mice nesting in it by now.

So - as an ignorant person in the matter of snorkels - would someone please explain to me why there are different grades of snorkelers?

Thanks in advance,
Chris

Certainly

http://www.bsacsnorkelling.co.uk/training/grades.htm

Please look here to see the headlines of what each grade is qualified to do.

In much the same way as SCUBA diving - entry level demonstrates basic skills and can participate, when led by more experienced divers, in events managed by even more experienced and capable divers.

Obviously, alongside that runs a set of instructional grades - aimed at delivering entry level training (as our OWI is) through to higher grades and indeed to the snorkelling ITS.

If you explore that site using the links at the top - you should get all your questions answered.
Are there any courses/qualifications on the site that take your fancy?

HTH

John

[Adrian Kelland]

Do you get a DCI in reverse in skydiving?
Quite a risk of DCI if going high altitude - DOC presentation?

[Bob Healey]

Same as there are different grades of Scuba Divers, Ability!

Bob

[Bob Healey]

So that rules out Matts BSAC Skydiving SDC!

Bob

[Bob Healey]

Exactly John, we are all Sportsmen, we are all Divers. Not all sportsmen are Footballers or Athletes, not all divers are Scuba.

Bob

[John Williams]

So that rules out Matts BSAC Skydiving SDC!

Bob

No....but it makes deco stops on the way back down bloody difficult!:D

John:p

[Bob Healey]

Quote "I'm really at a loss as to what you are trying to acheive with this thread"

Simple John, it's Equality, Recognition and Awareness for a minority.

Bob

[Bob Healey]

No....but it makes deco stops on the way back down bloody difficult!:D

John:p
Sorry John, What's a deco stop, your are on the snorkelling forum now?

Bob

[John Williams]

Exactly John, we are all Sportsmen, we are all Divers. Not all sportsmen are Footballers or Athletes, not all divers are Scuba.

Bob

Who said they were?

It was you you said that a First Class Diver should not be able to call themselves that without being a snorkeller too!

I'm still wondering what the incentive to open this particular can of worms was!

I don't subscribe to the saying "all publicity is good publicity"...this thread (if taken at all seriously) runs the risk of becoming bad publicity!

John

[Bob Healey]

It got at least one more person to find out about snorkelling, in fact you directed them to where they could find out more.

Bob

[John Williams]

Sorry John, What's a deco stop, your are on the snorkelling forum now?

Bob

Bob!
If you are gonna call yourself a diver then you have to do SCUBA and SKY too!

Matt was just telling us ...higher up this particular thread branch that DCI might be a problem if you start your skydiving from too high (and it don't matter much whether you wear a snorkel or a DV when SKY diving!)

Wonder what sort of trepeze you'd need and at what height?

Who will we get to write the deco tables?

John

[Adrian Kelland]

Who will we get to write the deco tables?

John
Testing with skydiving goats a la Haldane?

[Gareth]

I like this thread, 007 eat your heart out.

Advanced Diving techniques SDC - sky dive (using the free fall position), enter the water, do the dive, & deco stop on the ascent, using the sky diver position.

Quick question for the instructor, how does the boat find you , do you need an SMB for the sky dive bit so that the boat can follow you?
Who do you blame when they miss the wreck, the pilot or the skipper, or do you have a shot with a helium balloon on one end?

Gareth

PS
The sky diving stops are on ascent, as the pressure drops!

[Bob Healey]

I like this thread, 007 eat your heart out.

Advanced Diving techniques SDC - sky dive (using the free fall position), enter the water, do the dive, & deco stop on the ascent, using the sky diver position.

Quick question for the instructor, how does the boat find you , do you need an SMB for the sky dive bit so that the boat can follow you?
Who do you blame when they miss the wreck, the pilot or the skipper, or do you have a shot with a helium balloon on one end?

Gareth

PS
The sky diving stops are on ascent, as the pressure drops!
If you are really good you are picked up by the pilot and end up back in the plane. Thats were First Class comes in. LOL

Bob

[Mike Rowley]

You write the SDC and I'm sure Sean's NDC Group will consider it.

Bob

Nah! Its technical so its in our NDC Group!:D


Mike

[MattS]

If you are gonna call yourself a diver then you have to do SCUBA and SKY too!And I guess the Moshers will want equality too so the Crowd Diving SDC will also be a requirement for First Class Diver.
Matt was just telling us ...higher up this particular thread branch that DCI might be a problem if you start your skydiving from too highPASDI insist that stops are too dangerous so limit divers to 18,000ft within no stop limits. IATSD teach Extended Range Diving where Oxygen is breathed to avoid the DCS risk of air above 30,000 ft. GAE however inisist that a Helium filled baloon is the only safe way to descend. The Alpinists movement maintain the view that DCS is not a problem if one makes one's dive on a single breath!
Who will we get to write the deco tables?Sticking to a 10m/min descent rate might be a problem!

And how could we forget http://www.firediving.com/

:D

[Steve Pearson]

What would a Scuba AI have to do to crossover as a snorkel instructor

Steve

[John Williams]

Quick question for the instructor, how does the boat find you , do you need an SMB for the sky dive bit so that the boat can follow you?

Who do you blame when they miss the wreck, the pilot or the skipper, or do you have a shot with a helium balloon on one end?

Gareth

PS
The sky diving stops are on ascent, as the pressure drops!

Cor!
This gets difficult
One generally deploys one's SMB when one leaves the boat and then winds it out as one descends
(still OK for Sky diving to this point...as long as one wets the reel when deploying to keep it cool!)

...only to wind it in again as one returns to the boat
(that would be FC SKy D bit!)

Alternatively ...if the SMB is left on the surface when you leave the surface - that plane is going to have to make pretty tight circles whilst it gets to altitude...and then on the dive itself you are gonna have to wind in that line PDQ!

Shot lines..they are gonna be easier to deploy from the "wreck" ...just reel out a helium baloon to the right altitude (you could even use lazy shots if required!)

Mind you ...I would like to see shot deployment from the plane in the AsDT SDC!

As to those stops being on ascent ...I aint got my pilot's license yet...but if you stop a plane whilst it is in the air I beleive that there are severe consequences!

Divers making ascents during a sky dive...should really have checked the weather forecast before setting off!:D

Who to blame for missing the wreck....the person who took your money (if you ever see them again!)

heHehe

John

[Bob Healey]

What would a Scuba AI have to do to crossover as a snorkel instructor

Steve
Contact Alistair, the Chief Snorkel Examiner, found at HQ's,he's the one that deals with Instructor Crossovers. Snorkelling he can do but don't think he can cross you over to Skydiving Instructor though.

Bob :)

[Janos]

What's going on? No-one's posted the link to the CCR Snorkle, or the manifolded snorkle.

Hey ho. They can be found: here (http://www.goingunder.net/weird%20scuba%20news.htm)

Janos

[John Williams]

What would a Scuba AI have to do to crossover as a snorkel instructor

Steve

And here is where you would crossover to Steve

http://www.bsacsnorkelling.co.uk/training/instcrossovers.htm

Sound OK to you?
I'm sure Bob will point you in the direction of a local snorkelling club (or a SCUBA club with a snorkelling section)

John

[Odin]

But... what about us "Oldies"
I was qualified as a BS-AC Snorkel diver in 1973 - after doing my 20 foot snorkel dive and rescue.
Yes make all the wannabe FCD do a snorkel test!!!
(depths got to be measured in feet though - pressure in psi - 14.7 psi none of this 1 bar rubbish)

[Alison Boler]

Go on, Sean! It's a terrible name, after all. :) Let the snorkellers have it and come up with something better for the real divers....

heheheh

Allie

[Adrian Kelland]

Go on, Sean! It's a terrible name, after all. :) Let the snorkellers have it and come up with something better for the real divers....

heheheh

Allie
That'll do :D

[iain aitchison]

Dear Bob,

FCD is enschrined in an aura.

The principle of an elite final grade for snorkelling has some merit, but I feel to make it worth doing the free diving element needs to get in there as does the leadership side. As for Allies remark about "real divers", I think looking through the list I published on the forum about the German qualifications for breath hold diving, the BSAC has a bit to do to catch up on "real snorkelling". A 20-25m deep snorkel dive is a real dive - or are we all doing them? Those able to do such things are more than just "surface snorklers" looking in. They would be there with all the reward, skill and risk.

The key question is are BSAC training pre-divers, amusing children, holiday snorklers (beach users) or teaching the beginnings of "real" breath hold diving i.e. free diving. The latter requires skills and an understanding of theory well beyond Advanced Snorkel Diver or similar. Many FCD would not be able to do the dives required, and much of the theory is specialised. In this question and its answers is the key to what to develop for BSAC. With the ansewer the way ahead is clear.

Only an opinion

regards
Iain

[Bob Healey]

To copy something often used by Keith, IMHO Freediving is to Snorkelling what Technical Diving is to Scuba. Most of us have heard of it, but the majority are not really interested. They just want to go out and enjoy what they do. A way of relaxing without pushing the limits, a pastime just to enjoy the sea life and a lot more exhillerating than lying on the beach soaking up the sun.

Just my opinion.

Bob :)

[John Williams]

But... what about us "Oldies"
I was qualified as a BS-AC Snorkel diver in 1973 - after doing my 20 foot snorkel dive and rescue.
Yes make all the wannabe FCD do a snorkel test!!!
(depths got to be measured in feet though - pressure in psi - 14.7 psi none of this 1 bar rubbish)

Bring back the "sand test" - you know the one?

Where the instructor stands the tips of his extra-long fins on the sea bed in hs cosy drysuit with full SCUBA kit and holds his depth guage above his head to confirm that he is indeed in 6m of water and then you have to snorkel down to the sand at his fin tips and collect a handful of fine sand and take it back to his oppo on the surface and show him some sand!

No sand...no pass!

Three handfuls in a row...come up with an empty hand ...start again from zero!

This was an official BSAC Snorkelling test wasn't it?
(not just that mean bloke at Liverpool Uni baiting newbies during his surface interval?)

It took my group all morning to pass that test...and it was getting harder as the tide was coming in and he refused to move! (until he thought it was lunchtime!)

John

[John Williams]

To copy something often used by Keith, IMHO Freediving is to Snorkelling what Technical Diving is to Scuba. Most of us have heard of it, but the majority are not really interested.
Just my opinion.

Bob :)

...and to follow that through
You can't become a FCD without some understanding (if not experience) of "technical" diving

The term "technical" is confusing anyway...when it first started it simply meant a black BCD with D-rings, then it came to mean "mixed gas" (which we are about to incorporate into mainstream entry level training)

What does "technical" mean now?
What will it mean tomorrow?
Does FCD need to evolve to keep up
(I think so!...how can you gain the ultimate qualification if you don't know where your sport is going? and if you are not one of those pushing it forward? - those who got there a while ago demonstrated their desire, and ability, to keep up with the times...and presumably still do!)

But...whatever discipline you follow SCUBA or Snorkel .. should a FCD know about the ultimate incarnation of that discipline? Should they have experience of it?

If you just want to enjoy your SCUBA diving at branch level - there is no need to get FCD
(though those who have done it say that it enhances their diving)

The same could be said at snorkelling branch level....

They just want to go out and enjoy what they do. A way of relaxing without pushing the limits, a pastime just to enjoy the sea life and a lot more exhillerating than lying on the beach soaking up the sun.

... oh - sorry! You already said that Bob!

Does not sound like cutting edge (FCD) stuff to me...

...does sound like a lot of fun in the sun though!

John

[Keith Lawrence]

Q : What's the difference between snorkelling and free diving?
A : 20m

:) K

[John Williams]

Q : What's the difference between snorkelling and free diving?
A : 20m

:) K

No...Sponsorship!
(and snazzy 3m long fins that cost more than my car!)

J

[PeteM]

What does "technical" mean now?

Something slightly more complex than you are doing now:D

At least that is what I used to say, I guess that having got to trimix I should just admit it now

[Adrian Kelland]

No...Sponsorship!
(and snazzy 3m long fins that cost more than my car!)

J
And an ability to look fit in a swimsuit :D

[Steve Pearson]

That counts me out then

I'll stick to scuba :D

[Andy Wade]

And an ability to look fit in a swimsuit :D

Hey Hey Hey! That's me then!!! :D

Oh.
I think my eyesight must be going, I was sure it was an 'a' between the 'f' and the 't' :o

[Paul Beal]

Is there a syllabus for Advanced Ocean Snorkel Diver somewhere? I can only find the course description and no reference to actual skills. As someone who is seriously considering FCD I am the sort of person Bob wants to have Advanced Snorkelling skills so I am genuinely interested in what consitutes "Advanced" in snorkelling.

[Steve Pearson]

Take a look here Paul.

http://www.bsacsnorkelling.co.uk/training/instcrossovers.htm

you can download the powerpoint presentation for it as well.

Steve

[Paul Beal]

My work computer won't download .zip files. Thanks Steve, I will have a look when I get home.

Paul

[Paul Beal]

What I am really after is a syllabus such as:

1) Duck dive to x m
2) Swim x m in drysuit
3) Rescue and unconcious snorkeller from x m
4) Tow a casualty for x m
5) be competant and confident to do x, y and z

etc etc etc. Just like all of the scuba qualifications.

As I am an AD and an AI I would cross over pretty high up the ladder but this doesn't mean I am able to do (let alone teach) all of the skills. For example, I am not very good at troubleshooting duck dives (this was picked up by an NI when I was teaching on an IFC last weekend). For this reason I would like to see a syllabus.

Paul

[Bob Healey]

What I am really after is a syllabus such as:

1) Duck dive to x m
2) Swim x m in drysuit
3) Rescue and unconcious snorkeller from x m
4) Tow a casualty for x m
5) be competant and confident to do x, y and z

etc etc etc. Just like all of the scuba qualifications.

As I am an AD and an AI I would cross over pretty high up the ladder but this doesn't mean I am able to do (let alone teach) all of the skills. For example, I am not very good at troubleshooting duck dives (this was picked up by an NI when I was teaching on an IFC last weekend). For this reason I would like to see a syllabus.

Paul
Hi Paul,

Just for yours and anybodies, I suppose< the Advanced Ocean Snorkel Diver is in the process of being rewritten, the ASI has just been completed and piloted successfully. Many more skills are being included including search and recovery, more work with SMB's and datums, chartwork. etc. Watch this space so to speak.

Bob

[Steve Pearson]

I think I'm losing the plot here.....First Class Snorkeller :confused:

Is there that much more to snorkelling that a competent sports diver couldn't do with just a bit of training.

(I've put my flak jacket on)

[James - Narked@50]

I think I'm losing the plot here.....First Class Snorkeller :confused:

Is there that much more to snorkelling that a competent sports diver couldn't do with just a bit of training.

(I've put my flak jacket on)

Got room in that large bullet proof jacket for two?

I suppose it takes all kinds, I agree that it's good for snorkellers to get better qualifications, and I will be the first to admit I'm not great in this field, but I can't help feeling it could potentialy go too far and have people arguing over increadibly minor differences as it is not exactly a broad sport?

James:rolleyes:

[Paul Beal]

I got very interested in the snorkelling syllabus last night! Thanks very much Neil R for emailing me the presentation for AOSD. I was a bit confused as there was still no mention of practical skills - I then realised the AOSD is a mostly theory based course with 5 qualifying "dives".

I also remembered last night that we have a lot of snorkel diver workbooks and green qualification books under our bed (Louise inherited them from the previous Yorkshire SDCO). Having a look through I have to say I like the simplicity of the syllabus and the fact that the advanced qualification only takes 2 hours plus some open water dives.

Having said that though, I came to the conclusion that anyone going for FCD who can't do a lot of the content of the course really should be able to as it is pretty much the basis of everything we do. I am not really advocating that everyone should have an open water snorkel assessment but if our skills are not up to it I think we should do something about it.

Just as a matter of interest, do inland sites such as Capernwray and Stoney allow snorkelling?

Paul

[Neil R]

Hi paul ,

Just as a matter of interest, do inland sites such as Capernwray and Stoney allow snorkelling?

I don't know about them but 8 acre lake are quite happy to allow snorkellers , we did a few visits there last year .

http://www.bsactravelclub.co.uk/reports/hull.htm

Keep a lookout on the trip reports hoping that many more snorkellers will file reports about different locations , around the uk. :)

[Bob Healey]

I got very interested in the snorkelling syllabus last night! Thanks very much Neil R for emailing me the presentation for AOSD. I was a bit confused as there was still no mention of practical skills - I then realised the AOSD is a mostly theory based course with 5 qualifying "dives".

I also remembered last night that we have a lot of snorkel diver workbooks and green qualification books under our bed (Louise inherited them from the previous Yorkshire SDCO). Having a look through I have to say I like the simplicity of the syllabus and the fact that the advanced qualification only takes 2 hours plus some open water dives.

Having said that though, I came to the conclusion that anyone going for FCD who can't do a lot of the content of the course really should be able to as it is pretty much the basis of everything we do. I am not really advocating that everyone should have an open water snorkel assessment but if our skills are not up to it I think we should do something about it.

Just as a matter of interest, do inland sites such as Capernwray and Stoney allow snorkelling?

Paul
Yes both Stoney and Capernwray allow snorkelling, so long as you wear the correct safety equipment. Beware though, the safety officer at Stoney is a Snorkel Instructor Trainer so make sure you get it right. LOL

Bob Healey