Refusing membership

[Paul Oliver]

Guys

Is there any reason that we canot refuse someone membership (new) if we feel it would be detrimental to the club to allow them to join.

Are we under any obligation to allow them to join?

I don't want to give too much detail, to avoid sounding detrimental to the indevidual.

All advise welcome.

Regards

Paul

[iainmsmith]

Is there any reason that we canot refuse someone membership (new) if we feel it would be detrimental to the club to allow them to join.

Are we under any obligation to allow them to join?

It depends on your Constitution (or whatever the correct BSAC term is - Bye-Laws?). If you read BOH, there is a passage which recommends some clauses for this document. IIRC, These make membership subject to payment of the appropriate BSAC and Branch Subs and subject to the Committee's approval. In other words, if the Committee decide not to approve someone's membership (for whatever reason), they can't join or renew membership.

If you haven't got something like that in your Constitution, then you may find it harder to refuse membership to someone.

Iain

[Tony Dwyer]

Guys

Is there any reason that we canot refuse someone membership (new) if we feel it would be detrimental to the club to allow them to join.

Are we under any obligation to allow them to join?

I don't want to give too much detail, to avoid sounding detrimental to the indevidual.

All advise welcome.

Regards

Paul

We once refused membership to a minor whose parents could not attend to supervise.
There was also a guy a little while back who neglected to advise us of a health problem (fibbed or made a mistake on his self cert). His chronic asthma became apparent in the shallow end of the pool and he panicked in 4 ft of water. We carried on for a while but he was a hopeless case. We politely suggested that diving was not for him and gave him his membership fee back.

Some years ago we told a guy we would not renew his membership because his attitude was just plain nasty and he was an accident looking for somewhere to happen. He had not responded to attempts to get him to understand that he was a danger to those around him.

A club is a private body, it can refuse membership if that is the wish of the exisiting members. No-one has a right to join, it's a priviledge not a right.

[Steve Walker]

HQ should still be able to e-mail you electronic "Model Branch Bye-laws" i.e. a suggested branch constitution, they did for myself a couple of years ago.

If not, mail me off-line & I'll let you have a modified copy from my PC, which includes an additional clause which might be convenient for your circumstances in case this/these person(s) take 'exclusion' as some sort of bureaucaratical challenge to be overcome. All you then have to do is ratify your constitution in a committe meeting and you're sorted
Regards

[Adrian Kelland]

All you then have to do is ratify your constitution in a committe meeting and you're sorted


This is where a constitution can tie you in knots. Depending on your constitution, you may have to;

Require a special general meeting of all members
Have enough voting members there to ratify the change
Jump up and down while singing the National Anthem

If you don't follow your constitution, you will find that other members start complaining also.

Just read that part of the constitution that describes how to change it. If there is one! ;-)

Adrian

[Steve Walker]

Do I detect the voice of some previous relevant experience in your post Adrian ? What I perhaps should have said is -
"All" you have to do is... ;)
Fortunately if Paul's club doesn't have a current constitution then they should be able to get one adopted by a simple vote, then all the caveats about all the "jumping & singing the National anthem whilst gargling a yard of ale and juggling three oranges with your other hand" will be the pre-requisites for changing it once its in place.
Cheers
Steve

[Adrian Kelland]

gargling a yard of ale

Cheers
Steve

Now that I would vote for Steve!

[Paul Oliver]

Guys

Thanks very much. It will probably not be too much of a problem. I know he is speaking to his solicitor, but i also know he has an undeclared medical condition. We can also get the old bill involved for several reasons.

I know we have a well concidered constitution, i just don't have a copy. Should i as DO? I think thats for the rest of the committee to deal with. Then again do you ever gain enough knowledge.

Regards

Paul

[Adrian Kelland]

I know we have a well considered constitution, i just don't have a copy. Should i as DO? I think that?s for the rest of the committee to deal with. Then again do you ever gain enough knowledge?

Regards

Paul

Paul

Just my opinion, but you should have a copy of the constitution. Not as DO, but as a member of your branch. Ask the reverse. Why shouldn't each member have a copy? If you have a website, put it there, what's to hide?

Sounds like your problem must have quite an ego. Most people would just go elsewhere. If a court forced you to keep him as a member, I should think that no one would dive with them anyway.

BTW, could you be on dodgy ground if you know he has not declared a medical condition? Have you let him dive knowing this?

I hope all goes well.

Adrian

[Paul Oliver]

Adrian

He has not done any in water lessons. We as a branch insist on a full medical for new divers, to be shown before starting Open Water Lessons. They can then use self certification for subsequent medicals.

Bottom line is that no one will instruct or dive with him, so he is wasting his time. But ego Hmmm All about a womans scorn.

Regards

Paul

[Adrian Kelland]

We as a branch insist on a full medical for new divers, to be shown before starting Open Water Lessons. They can then use self certification for subsequent medicals.


Are we allowed to do that? I can see the point of it, but it goes against current 'best' practice.

So do you ask for a chest x-ray? ;-)

Adrian

[Paul Oliver]

Adrian

If its in our Bye-laws i dont see why not.

We have several divers who have to have an annual medical and one who had a life threatening problem identified on his initial medical (Some years ago). Bit hard to argue against that.

We also have several who would have self certificated last year, but have still not got a medical as problems have been identified.

No chest X-Ray.

We have a deal with a local practice, and they get it for ?25. Its all explained by the Treasurer when they first approach the club.

We put it down to risk assesment, we feel that people not aware of the dangers will bluff or pay lip service. When do they realise the dangers - proberably not till a sea dive to 20m in poor vis.

Regards

Paul

[Steve Walker]

As DO you should not only have a copy of your constitution (as should every member) but be well versed in it's details, especially in terms of how your contitution delimits the "powers" of your role and the other branch officers.

If it follows the Model Branch Bye-laws you may be pleasantly surprised (relieved?): my understanding of them is you have nothing to fear from this chaps solicitors or anyone else, you can refuse someone permission to dive (initially temporarily) based on nothing more than your reponsibilities as DO, this also applies to any Dive Marshall, as they are in essence your "deputies".

Later you can, if necessary, make this supension of diving permanent (via proper committe discussions, with the involvement of the diver in question) if you feel there is sufficient 'bad practice' that you wil not accept the risk of this person diving under your auspices.

I take it the diver in question is well aware of all the objections? It makes you wonder why folk like this persist in these approaches, I've seen a similar situation myself in previous times, makes very little sense to me.

Hope you get it sorted soon
Steve

[Paul Oliver]

Hi Steve

I did actually read the constitution when i was voted onto the committee a few years ago (serves me right for not attending the AGM that year).

I also read it last year as well, just cant find the copy, and sometimes i download faster than i upload. I'll now put one in my BOH.

Our Chariman who has actually been dealing with it all spoke to HQ today and we are squared away now. I am just really backing him up and checking up through other routes. Its a major event in his house when he gets onto the net, his kids lov it.

Regards

Paul