Being part of a Club

[David G]

Hi,
We all know that most of the work of running a club usually ends up being done by the 'mad' few....
...How have you managed to get your Branch Members involved in all the work that needs doing?

Things like:
Boat Maintenance and other equipment cleaning/servicing.
Pool Marshalling.
Being on the Committee.

Any novel approaches to getting people to 'pull-their-weight' would be good to hear!

Do you make anything compulsory, and if so, how do you deal with 'offenders'!????

Cheers,

David.

[Taff Griffiths]

Hi,
We all know that most of the work of running a club usually ends up being done by the 'mad' few....
...How have you managed to get your Branch Members involved in all the work that needs doing?

Things like:
Boat Maintenance and other equipment cleaning/servicing.
Pool Marshalling.
Being on the Committee.

Any novel approaches to getting people to 'pull-their-weight' would be good to hear!

Do you make anything compulsory, and if so, how do you deal with 'offenders'!????

Cheers,

David.

In my veiw if members do not get involved then there will be no trips, training etc, that always tends to be a good motivator. Also a gentle reminder of the good old saying, many hands make light work, hence the need for a commitee and volunteers to assist and help where needed! If this does not work then the club in my view is certainly in trouble because the commited few will eventually get tired of doing all the work and go elsewhere!

Regards

Taff

[Richard_N]

:=Hi,
:=We all know that most of the work of running a club usually ends up being done by the 'mad' few....
:=...How have you managed to get your Branch Members involved in all the work that needs doing?
:=
:=Things like:
:=Boat Maintenance and other equipment cleaning/servicing.
:=Pool Marshalling.
:=Being on the Committee.
:=
:=Any novel approaches to getting people to 'pull-their-weight' would be good to hear!
:=
:=Do you make anything compulsory, and if so, how do you deal with 'offenders'!????
:=
:=Cheers,
:=
:=David.

I think you'll have a job in compulsory workloads for those that 'dont pull there weight'. We are lucky at our branch in that we have an active bunch of divers and from that we have an active committee. As the 'too many cooks' saying goes its sometimes easier to focus on getting a small core of real keen organisers than a mass group of 'half-interesteds' or 'could'nt be bothered types' getting in the way.

Try then once dives or events have been organised to then encourage people to just turn up, this way the penny will eventually drop and in time some of the crowd may well step forward in the future to try their luck at getting involved.

Its all gotta be done in good spirits, as members will drift away if they feel they are getting put unnecessarily on.

Unfortunatley theres always going to be more 'sheep' than 'shepherds' in a dive club - fact. Good luck anyway.

Rich.

[Bill Bird]

:=:=Hi,
:=:=We all know that most of the work of running a club usually ends up being done by the 'mad' few....
:=:=...How have you managed to get your Branch Members involved in all the work that needs doing?
:=:=
:=:=Things like:
:=:=Boat Maintenance and other equipment cleaning/servicing.
:=:=Pool Marshalling.
:=:=Being on the Committee.
:=:=
:=:=Any novel approaches to getting people to 'pull-their-weight' would be good to hear!
:=:=
:=:=Do you make anything compulsory, and if so, how do you deal with 'offenders'!????
:=:=
:=:=Cheers,
:=:=
:=:=David.

David,

Our Equipment Officer is responsible for branch equipment, but we are lucky in that we have a number of members who have a vast amount of experience to help with things like compressor and equipment maintenance. Thankfully we got rid of our boat a few years ago, after little use, high cost and occassional mis-use.

Pool marshalling is a duty we lay on all of our Sport Divers and above, and we just issue a roster. It's the only thing we have a "fine" for if they fail to do their turn, do not have a good reason for not doing their turn or don't swop with someone.

Standing for Committee. Hmmmmmmmm! We normally do manage to get people to stand - even if reluctantly. However, I think this is an area where you are just going to have to bite the bullet and hope for volunteers.

Regards.


Bill

[Lindsey Doyle]

Pool marshalling is a duty we lay on all of our Sport Divers and above, and we just issue a roster. It's the only thing we have a "fine" for if they fail to do their turn, do not have a good reason for not doing their turn or don't swop with someone.


Hi Bill,
I'd be interested what form your "fine" takes, as I (DO) have recently set up a rota for pool cover & have had a few people missing their slot!
Cheers, Lindsey

[Bill Bird]

:=
:=Pool marshalling is a duty we lay on all of our Sport Divers and above, and we just issue a roster. It's the only thing we have a "fine" for if they fail to do their turn, do not have a good reason for not doing their turn or don't swop with someone.


Hi Bill,
I'd be interested what form your "fine" takes, as I (DO) have recently set up a rota for pool cover & have had a few people missing their slot!
Cheers, Lindsey

Lindsey,

Here's extract from our rules.

"All members of Sports Diver and above are liable to undertake Pool Marshalling duties, and in the event that a member is unavailable to undertake his/her designated Pool Marshalling duties it will be their responsibility to find a replacement, or to swap with another member. If it proves difficult to get a replacement, then the Diving Officer should be informed before the Thursday when you are supposed to undertake Pool Marshalling duties. A failure to follow this procedure without adequate reason will result in a ?5.00 fine for each occasion this occurs."

We try to put the emphasis on the individuals sorting out replacements. If they volunteer to do anothers duty before their renewal then duty done. If not subs are ?5 more.

Recently we've had little need to use it, but occassionally somebody does play us up.

Hope that helps.


Bill

[Nigel Hewitt]

A failure to follow this procedure without adequate reason will result in a ?5.00 fine for each occasion this occurs

I'm impressed. I confess if I'd been fool enough to sign up to rules like that I might just look at the schedule to see I wasn't on too often then just write you a cheque.

Would I get a discount for early payment?

[Bill Bird]

:=A failure to follow this procedure without adequate reason will result in a ?5.00 fine for each occasion this occurs

I'm impressed. I confess if I'd been fool enough to sign up to rules like that I might just look at the schedule to see I wasn't on too often then just write you a cheque.

Would I get a discount for early payment?

Nice one Nigel! Don't worry some clever cloggs did think that way and tried exactly that. Needless to say that only resulted in a lecture regarding doing the one thing that the branch laid on anyone as a matter of course. It was just a way to get people to do that one duty. To be honest, I don't think lately it's been a problem because the culture now is that people do actually try to swop.

Safe divin'


Bill

[chris cherrington]

Do you make anything compulsory, and if so, how do you deal with 'offenders'!????


David I am curious. My old branch had about 60 members and most weekends we struggled to get enough divers to fill the boat. I would have thought that the main issue would be to have enough members that trips and dives were well subscribed to. By definition therefore you need a healthy membership. Surely this is more important than whether every single member makes some token contribution?

In the above posts one club requires SD and over to baby-sit at the pool. No way. Sure I will skipper now and again but pool training? Forget it. I'd find another club or not bother.

See how easy it is to lose members or potential members. My missus and I would join or leave together so that's 2 for 1. We are IANTD so I don't worry much about the BSAC, but I enjoyed the company and the diving of the club I was in (we're not in the UK at the minute but when I get back....)

All clubs, diving or otherwise, have a hardcore of members that "do" and a periphery of members that don't even turn up. If they pay their subs they are entitled to do either. This is a fact of life and the more you try to change it the more you lose the members that don't want to do anything. Club membership numbers are falling - here's one reason why!

Chris

[Andy Wade]

:=Do you make anything compulsory, and if so, how do you deal with 'offenders'!????


David I am curious. My old branch had about 60 members and most weekends we struggled to get enough divers to fill the boat.

My experience is that all it takes to fill the club boat is to organise dives that people will really want to go on.
Training dives are done in the winter and up to Easter week, then get down to the really exciting stuff.
Trips for 'experienced divers' only, that are advertised well in advance, will give trainess something to aim for, don't make any exceptions, tell them that if they push for training at the right time, they will get it, and they can come on the experienced only dives if they get to a certain standard by Easter.
No exceptions.
People generally do respond to a deadline, and the ones that don't bother aren't worth worrying about.
This sounds a bit hard faced I know, but once bitten...
Take Oban for example, there are many easy to do 'boring' dives there. But with a bit more effort on the dive planning front, there are quite a few really spectacular dives too.
Look after your trainess, give them good opportunities to get their training done and make them aim to get trained by a certain date, with their main aim to get on the 'experienced only' dive trips, and you'll have them lining up for it.
Tide dependant dives are also good to weed out time wasters, I've left one or two on the shore because they were late arriving, and they never did it again.
The guy that trained me to dive was a real ba**ard, he was very strict with times and tides, and left one or two behind on the shore (including myself on one occasion). But he did organise some very very special dives, and you could tell that he'd put a lot of effort into it. And he wouldn't let anyone stand watching, he'd grab you and teach you what we were doing, how to get the shot bang into the wreck and how to time the tides to perfection.
People do appreciate it when they can see what effort has gone into the organisation.
Yes, I guess it was a bit regimented and it's not for everyone, but his dive trips were truly excellent. And always full. People worked hard to get on them.

[Bill Bird]

:=Do you make anything compulsory, and if so, how do you deal with 'offenders'!????


David I am curious. My old branch had about 60 members and most weekends we struggled to get enough divers to fill the boat. I would have thought that the main issue would be to have enough members that trips and dives were well subscribed to. By definition therefore you need a healthy membership. Surely this is more important than whether every single member makes some token contribution?

In the above posts one club requires SD and over to baby-sit at the pool. No way. Sure I will skipper now and again but pool training? Forget it. I'd find another club or not bother.

See how easy it is to lose members or potential members. My missus and I would join or leave together so that's 2 for 1. We are IANTD so I don't worry much about the BSAC, but I enjoyed the company and the diving of the club I was in (we're not in the UK at the minute but when I get back....)

All clubs, diving or otherwise, have a hardcore of members that "do" and a periphery of members that don't even turn up. If they pay their subs they are entitled to do either. This is a fact of life and the more you try to change it the more you lose the members that don't want to do anything. Club membership numbers are falling - here's one reason why!

Chris

Chris,

The question of "baby sitting" the pools is the only "duty" we ask our SD's and above to do. Somebody did it for them once, and it's not as though it's an onerous duty. The marshalls are not in the pool. I'd personally see it as giving something back to the branch - however small that might be. They have the rescue skills to pull up a fully kitted diver, whereas our locally trained sport centre staff haven't! Therefore this is a risk assessed requirement and a monetray one, plus if we have two pools a deep pit and a main swimming pool, and to have the centre marshalls would cost us more dosh.

Frankly if somebody couldn't be bothered to do that to help their branch out, I personally would rather they did find another club!

I wouldn't disagree that diving is the ultimate aim, but if you hire pools, do training (which is also essential to getting and keeping members) then the ordinary member shouldn't have a problem with doing a little bit for the branch in return. Incidents can happen in pools just as easily as in open water.

Regards.


Bill

[David G]

:=Do you make anything compulsory, and if so, how do you deal with 'offenders'!????


David I am curious. My old branch had about 60 members and most weekends we struggled to get enough divers to fill the boat. I would have thought that the main issue would be to have enough members that trips and dives were well subscribed to. By definition therefore you need a healthy membership. Surely this is more important than whether every single member makes some token contribution?

In the above posts one club requires SD and over to baby-sit at the pool. No way. Sure I will skipper now and again but pool training? Forget it. I'd find another club or not bother.

See how easy it is to lose members or potential members. My missus and I would join or leave together so that's 2 for 1. We are IANTD so I don't worry much about the BSAC, but I enjoyed the company and the diving of the club I was in (we're not in the UK at the minute but when I get back....)

All clubs, diving or otherwise, have a hardcore of members that "do" and a periphery of members that don't even turn up. If they pay their subs they are entitled to do either. This is a fact of life and the more you try to change it the more you lose the members that don't want to do anything. Club membership numbers are falling - here's one reason why!

Chris

Chris,
Thanks for your reply.

I would put it to you that the reason Clubs are losing members is not because of the reasons you cite but because people with your attitude of 'me,me,me and take,take,take' are not prepared to muck in and help with the jobs that have to be done to make a club exist, but just sit back and 'enjoy' the cheaper diving that a non-commercial club allows!

I put it to you also that the people that leave are the ones doing all the work and who are fed up being dumped-on by the selfish ones..............

Your comment about paying your subs and that is all that matters shows your confusion between what is a club and what is a commercial service operation!

Our club has 90 members, won the Heinke Trophy a couple of years ago, fills several boats most weekends and club members will probably complete in excess of 1500 dives this year....but the mundane work is still left to 'The Mugs' who eventually say 'enough-is-enough'!

Please debate!

Regards,

David.

[David Walker]

...How have you managed to get your Branch Members involved in all the work that needs doing?

Make it sound attractive. If the current committee complain in public about the work they have to do, there's no way that others will want to become more actively involved.

Other things depends on the particular club. Getting involved in the boat is likely to happen once people are familiar with the boat. Ask people to come up an hour early on a weekend to help get the boat out, even if they're just watching the first time they'll soon be able to do it themself and you can have an extra hour in bed on a morning. Do some boat handling courses - I started one over a year ago and never managed to get it finished because of a combination of bad weather, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and a lack of ABIs when i've been out on the club boat. If i'd got that finished then on the few weekends when no one is organising the diving I would happily run trips as long as someone with a towbar wanted to come too.

Something like pool marshalling I suppose depends on having people at the pool. Things like octopush work well at my Uni club, not sure how it'd work there but if people are at the pool many will happily help out.

The final thing I suppose is communication - let the members know where the shortages are and there may be more volunteers. An occasional e-mail or some kind of notice that everyone would read - most people can access websites now, so a note on there would probably just make people aware of problems. Remember, if people don't know that some are running around more than they'd like, others may not necessarily notice. If a boat is organised every weekend, people may not see the point in asking if they can organise it instead - but if they were asked, they would happily oblige.


Finally I don't think making things compulsory will help - those that are happy to volunteer probably will if asked. Ones who aren't would probably not respond well to being forced into things.

My advice - send an e-mail out to everyone in the club letting them know where the shortages are and where you'd like people to help. It might be hard to get volunteers for things like DO (due to people maybe not feeling happy to take on the responsibility, especially if some of the diving is above their level ie trimix etc), but getting people to organise the boat some weekends, that kind of thing shouldn't be a problem... but show them first, get them to meet you before you collect the boat so they see everything that needs doing, how to do it, etc.


David

[David Walker]

I would put it to you that the reason Clubs are losing members is not because of the reasons you cite but because people with your attitude of 'me,me,me and take,take,take' are not prepared to muck in and help with the jobs that have to be done to make a club exist, but just sit back and 'enjoy' the cheaper diving that a non-commercial club allows!

Quite probably. At my Uni club we have so many people coming through expecting "commercial" training where they just turn up and get what they want when we want it. It is unfortunate but we do get people who turn up late / not at all and expect to have someone do private lessons for them. And perhaps more unfortunately, someone inevitably will take time out and teach people when they haven't bothered to turn up / apologise or anything. I've suggested and even asked other instructors not to teach some people anymore - its the only way to make people realise that they can't mess the club around and get everything they want. If they apologised enough after the first time I probably would relent, but if it kept happening (has been known) personally I say no.

So, why do we still do it? Personally I switch off to it - look at the good sides. I do like taking new people in the water when they are enjoying it. Its nice to see people really getting into diving - we only get a few like that each year, but its really nice to have and worth the effort. Other plus points? Well I get to keep my own skills and things in practice while i'm teaching, even if it is usually only in Stoney. Have some kind of incentive like that - whoever sorts the RIB out gets free diving. Or simply make sure the same people aren't doing it each weekend - if others dive all the time but say no if you ask them to help, just stop them diving. Obviously you need to make allowances if someone can't do something (if they don't have a towbar they can't collect the boat), that kind of thing.

Just look for the good points of what you do, block out the bad, and if people don't volunteer when they know there are jobs to be done (but you need to make sure people know what needs to be done first) then get a bit harder on them. If no one volunteers for something they are clearly capable and have the time to do then stop helping them - usually has the desired effect of getting them to help out a bit more.

Just think of the alternatives - you do diving for fun, and if these problems are spoiling that then obviously thats not a good thing. I'll always be a problem in any BSAC club I think - as long as we have volunteers doing things someone will always feel hard-done-by.

Hope it gets sorted.

David

[Chris Cherrington]

Chris,
Thanks for your reply.

I would put it to you that the reason Clubs are losing members is not because of the reasons you cite but because people with your attitude of 'me,me,me and take,take,take' are not prepared to muck in and help with the jobs that have to be done to make a club exist, but just sit back and 'enjoy' the cheaper diving that a non-commercial club allows!

I am somewhat mystified by the view club diving is cheaper, that is not my experience.

Also you are wrong. If the club structure allowed the "me, me, me - take, take, take" divers you cite, then membership would be growing. It is not.

I put it to you again that if you want more (numericaly speaking) members you must accept the "non-doers" and if you want only "doers" you must accept a smaller club.

Chris

[David Walker]

I am somewhat mystified by the view club diving is cheaper, that is not my experience.

Depends on the club - my home club makes it significantly cheaper to dive than anywhere else - ?50 per year for unlimited clean air fills and use of the boat (we pay for fuel, usually under ?5 per person per day).

Also you are wrong. If the club structure allowed the "me, me, me - take, take, take" divers you cite, then membership would be growing. It is not.

Depends who leaves - if the people who are running the club get sick of it all and leave, others may end up following because they won't get what they want anymore.

David

[Will Swift]

:=...How have you managed to get your Branch Members involved in all the work that needs doing?

Make it sound attractive. If the current committee complain in public about the work they have to do, there's no way that others will want to become more actively involved.

Other things depends on the particular club. Getting involved in the boat is likely to happen once people are familiar with the boat. Ask people to come up an hour early on a weekend to help get the boat out, even if they're just watching the first time they'll soon be able to do it themself and you can have an extra hour in bed on a morning. Do some boat handling courses - I started one over a year ago and never managed to get it finished because of a combination of bad weather, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and a lack of ABIs when i've been out on the club boat. If i'd got that finished then on the few weekends when no one is organising the diving I would happily run trips as long as someone with a towbar wanted to come too.

Something like pool marshalling I suppose depends on having people at the pool. Things like octopush work well at my Uni club, not sure how it'd work there but if people are at the pool many will happily help out.

The final thing I suppose is communication - let the members know where the shortages are and there may be more volunteers. An occasional e-mail or some kind of notice that everyone would read - most people can access websites now, so a note on there would probably just make people aware of problems. Remember, if people don't know that some are running around more than they'd like, others may not necessarily notice. If a boat is organised every weekend, people may not see the point in asking if they can organise it instead - but if they were asked, they would happily oblige.


Finally I don't think making things compulsory will help - those that are happy to volunteer probably will if asked. Ones who aren't would probably not respond well to being forced into things.

My advice - send an e-mail out to everyone in the club letting them know where the shortages are and where you'd like people to help. It might be hard to get volunteers for things like DO (due to people maybe not feeling happy to take on the responsibility, especially if some of the diving is above their level ie trimix etc), but getting people to organise the boat some weekends, that kind of thing shouldn't be a problem... but show them first, get them to meet you before you collect the boat so they see everything that needs doing, how to do it, etc.


David

Of course, those who continually moan about being put upon, will also have to relinquish the 'power' they derive from organising/controlling the activity they moan about.

[Bill Bird]

Of course, those who continually moan about being put upon, will also have to relinquish the 'power' they derive from organising/controlling the activity they moan about.



Oooh! That's a bit cynical. While I agree that there may be some people who do jobs on club Committees because of the misguided perception that this gives them some power that they may wield, it's my experience that 99% of people do take on roles because they want to actually put something back into the club. Moaning about those who don't give anything back is an inevitable by-product and probably - in my opinion - quite justified. If you don't want to muck in, then why belong to a club! If the load was spread more thinly maybe it would make eveybody's life that much easier.

Bill

[Simon Brookes]

Our club found the benefits of delegation to be self propelling, when members saw that marshalling both the pool and local dives was being comunicated more clearly and people asked if they were still ok for their planned slot a week ahead (on club night) it made the whole process easier. People could then swap slots or get others to do it if busy.

Open lines of comunication and making things happen might seem difficult to start with it will pay off if it is done in a public forum such as club night peer pressure has a degree of positive force as well.

Another useful excercise is to plan what objectives your committee wishes to achieve and then revisit this, simply going through the process brings benefits. One last useful trick is look among you members and find the most persuasiive and good comunicators, these people are probasbly the best at getting involvement for your day to day organisation letting others specialise in producing or doing things that are of greater benfit long term like supporting a web site or producing a good newsletter.