Using a Canon G11 Camera Underwater

[Alan White]

Has anyone used or using a Canon G11 in a Canon housing for UK photography with sucess?

Reason for asking haven spoken with Underwater Camera experts, I have been told the G11 will be limiting and I should have a Canon S95 as its much better.

If you know about Canon, you will know the G11 and S95 are basically the same camera packaged in different sizes and with various controls via differing dials etc.

I already own a G11 and love it above water and hated the S95 above water so bought the G11, however I do not wish to waste money housing it if the
G11 turns out to be pants underwater.

Your informed comment is appreciated.

Many Thanks

[ChristianG]

haven spoken with Underwater Camera experts, I have been told the G11 will be limiting and I should have a Canon S95 as its much better.
For underwater purposes I'd say that the S95 is better - but not "much better".

If you know about Canon, you will know the G11 and S95 are basically the same camera packaged in different sizes and with various controls via differing dials etc.
Well, sort of. The major difference is that the G11 has a 28-140mm (35mm equiv) lens at f2.8 to 4.5 whereas the S95 lens is a 28-105mm (35mm equiv) at f2.0-4.9 meaning that, theoretically at least, the S95 lens is better in low light conditions. Low light is what we commonly get underwater.

I already own a G11 and love it above water and hated the S95 above water so bought the G11, however I do not wish to waste money housing it if the G11 turns out to be pants underwater.
It won't be, it's just a different camera. Having said that, Canon is now offering the G12 so buying a housing for "yesterday's technology" is moot (you can be sure that the housing for the G11 will not fit the G12). Of course, when talking underwater the housing's the thing rather than the camera and, on the subject of housings, my preference would always lie with a bespoke housing manufacturer (Ikelte for example) rather than (in this case) a Canon (badged - not made) housing.

If looking at other cameras I would also cast a serious glance at the Panasonic Lumix DMC-L series which have sometimes been known to knock the equivalent offerings of the other manufacturers into a kocked hat, often because the lens on 'em is proudly labelled "Leica".

In photography the name of the game is the lens (specifically the glass), the camera body is just that, a "body" to take the lens.

[Tony Dwyer]

Has anyone used or using a Canon G11 in a Canon housing for UK photography with sucess?

Reason for asking haven spoken with Underwater Camera experts, I have been told the G11 will be limiting and I should have a Canon S95 as its much better.

If you know about Canon, you will know the G11 and S95 are basically the same camera packaged in different sizes and with various controls via differing dials etc.

I already own a G11 and love it above water and hated the S95 above water so bought the G11, however I do not wish to waste money housing it if the
G11 turns out to be pants underwater.

Your informed comment is appreciated.

Many Thanks

Alan

If you go for the S95 and housing, you will be forking out £600 + and that's before you think about adding a strobe (which you will).
A housing for the G11/G12 will set you back about £200.

As I understand it, you are not yet an experienced underwater photographer, but you do know your current camera and get good results from it. With a housing, it should be more than adequate to get you through the L plate stage. You might even think about getting a G12 later.

You may decide to go to a more sophistcated system later, in which case you could either keep your current rig or flog it to help fund your housed DSLR system. I suspect that your daughters would probably want to inherit the Canon.

I have a rather nice Nikonos V system that I'd be happy to sell you. :) I can probably lend you a strobe to try out too.

Remember the unwritten rule. 'It's not a matter of will the housing flood, but WHEN will the housing flood'. :)

Dang, I just wrote it down.

[TrevorB]

Alan

I invested just a few weeks back and went for the S95 and Ikelite

Never used a G11 but the S95 is a very pleasant camera to us on land

The Ikelite housing is more expensive, but has a wet lens mount (screw)
The canon is a cheaper case but you have to buy the lens mount ( baynet)

Dux at underwater cameras said I should have gone Canon with the case
if you intend to buy a wet lens

The danger with an obsolete camera if you flood you are stuck with a case you cannot buy a camera for (EBay if full of them)

Hence I chose the S95

Looking for a cheap strobe next
need to make sure the camera will single flash as double flash and slave strobes are a problem

Dont see why I have to pay £300+ for the A35 they start at £50 on Ebay

[Alan White]

Ok Chaps

Thanks for that response.. Yes I am wavering to just a Canon housing and getting started as the cheapest way started.
Its just the varying view of the retail experts about the S95/G11 etc that has unsettled me a bit.

I was hoping someone who has a G variant may have a view though?

The G11 and G12 are nearly the same camera, video changed to HD and gained a front extra wheel on controls / the housing G11/12 is the same one presently from Canon.

[Alan White]

If looking at other cameras I would also cast a serious glance at the Panasonic Lumix DMC-L series which have sometimes been known to knock the equivalent offerings of the other manufacturers into a kocked hat, often because the lens on 'em is proudly labelled "Leica".

In photography the name of the game is the lens (specifically the glass), the camera body is just that, a "body" to take the lens.[/QUOTE]

Christian, I Have owned Lumix Panasonics and its never just the lens but the sensor as well and Pannies have had much higher noise levels than Canons everytime to date.

THE real question is do you have a G11 in a housing and have experience with it or is this just Expertise being offered without hard earned experience with the camera concerend as you do not clarify this in your posting.

[ChristianG]

THE real question is do you have a G11 in a housing and have experience with it or is this just Expertise being offered without hard earned experience with the camera concerend as you do not clarify this in your posting.
Actually, I shoot a dSLR so, no, I have no direct expertise with the G11 nor, for that matter, any P&S. Sorry, I've made that distinction before and just assumed that "everyone" knew it. I did buy the (IIRC) Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX2 as a small when-I-couldn't-be-bothered-to-drag-the-dSLR-around camera but soon found that it was incompatible with my Apple computer, something that Panasonic were entirely silent about, and on-sold it to a mate of mine (also on these pages) for his missus. Touch wood, they've been entirely happy with it.

[Alan White]

Christian

Sorry had no idea on your choice of camera.

Thanks for the update though.

Regards Alan

[Alan White]

Update to all concerned.

Recieved my WP-DC34 case for the G11 today, will have a play when I finish work?? (ooops, yes should be working now, sorry boss!)

Cannot wait to get things 'wet' but only on the outside of the case I hope.

[Tony Dwyer]

Update to all concerned.

Recieved my WP-DC34 case for the G11 today, will have a play when I finish work?? (ooops, yes should be working now, sorry boss!)

Cannot wait to get things 'wet' but only on the outside of the case I hope.

Alan

I take it you'll be taking the housing in empty for its first submersion.
I'll come along with a camera and take pics as it floods! :)

Nah... it will of course be fine. :)

[Alan White]

Tony

Floods, I hope not yet, should at least get halfway through first use with the camera within.....or being optomistic a few years use perhaps?

Its been underwater already. Ok, wetted really.
Stuck it in a bucket with the casing wadded full of loo roll and weighted down, all stayed dry, but then again at only 9 inches down, no big suprise.

Will wet it at the next pool session.

Regards Alan

[ChristianG]

Will wet it at the next pool session
Take it on your next boat dive together with a long bit of string. A very long piece of string on which you have marked 10 metre intervals.

Remember to place a weight in it, well-wrapped in a piece of neoprene or similar to stop it damaging the innards. Now gently lower it over the side (having secured the piece of string to something substantial, Mr. Murphy absolutely guarantees that you will be butter fingered while doing this) and keep lowering it to at least 10 metres past your (to date) maximum attained depth. It comes back up dry? Good, now take it, cameraless, for a dive and operate all, I do mean all, the controls several times. It's still dry? Good, now it deserves that camera.

The pool does not cut the mustard. No way, no how.

Housings, even the ones made by Messrs Yum and Cha, as yours is, rarely if ever leak when new. Leaks almost inevitably occur because of operator error but there is always the exception to every rule.

If it comes up wet, get back to us. :D

[ChristianG]

If it comes up wet, get back to us. :D
Oh, and take to heart my advice on DIVING A CAMERA (http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=30127):

Are you a beginner diver? Quite frankly I’d forget about u/w photography until you can trust your buoyancy skills to the extent that they are completely automatic, a desirable skill rarely achieved. Every competent, or more so, u/w photographer I know has this skill without even thinking about it. It has been argued that becoming a photographer increases your buoyancy skills. My counter argument is: what comes first? The chicken or the egg? Do not endanger yourself by getting into this situation before you’re ready for it, u/w photography is not worth your life. Besides, without that skill (amongst others) you won’t be able to take a decent pic anyway, other than by rare chance. This is not to say that your other u/w skills should not also be right up there, every one of them. It’s surprising (but shouldn’t be), for example, how often u/w photographers entirely forget to monitor their gas supply in the excitement of “the chase”, amongst several other things such as depth and time.
I do not, of course, have any idea of your diving skill level so forgive me for being, perhaps, presumptuous. :)

[PeteM]

Housings, even the ones made by Messrs Yum and Cha, as yours is, rarely if ever leak when new. Leaks almost inevitably occur because of operator error but there is always the exception to every rule.

Alan, Read this (http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=152525#poststop) to get an idea of how to stop the operator errors

[Tony Dwyer]

Take it on your next boat dive together with a long bit of string. A very long piece of string on which you have marked 10 metre intervals.

Remember to place a weight in it, well-wrapped in a piece of neoprene or similar to stop it damaging the innards. Now gently lower it over the side (having secured the piece of string to something substantial, Mr. Murphy absolutely guarantees that you will be butter fingered while doing this) and keep lowering it to at least 10 metres past your (to date) maximum attained depth. It comes back up dry? Good, now take it, cameraless, for a dive and operate all, I do mean all, the controls several times. It's still dry? Good, now it deserves that camera.

The pool does not cut the mustard. No way, no how.

Housings, even the ones made by Messrs Yum and Cha, as yours is, rarely if ever leak when new. Leaks almost inevitably occur because of operator error but there is always the exception to every rule.

If it comes up wet, get back to us. :D

Oh dear. I've never done that. But then, my housings haven't flooded. Well one did once, because a piece of lanyard got trapped. That was my own silly fault for rushing. Otherwise the two Sony badged housings I own have been fine for the past several years.

Our pool is 6 mtrs deep and is fine for a first check.

[Big Blue BSAC]

Has anyone used or using a Canon G11 in a Canon housing for UK photography with sucess?

Reason for asking haven spoken with Underwater Camera experts, I have been told the G11 will be limiting and I should have a Canon S95 as its much better.

If you know about Canon, you will know the G11 and S95 are basically the same camera packaged in different sizes and with various controls via differing dials etc.

I already own a G11 and love it above water and hated the S95 above water so bought the G11, however I do not wish to waste money housing it if the
G11 turns out to be pants underwater.

Your informed comment is appreciated.

Many Thanks

The G11 is great BUT get yourself a Patima housing, the size of the camera makes the stock housing too weak. A nice alloy or metalic housing is best.

[ChristianG]

the size of the camera makes the stock housing too weak. A nice alloy or metalic housing is best.
I feel compelled to comment:

• What has the size of the camera to do with the price of eggs?
• What is the difference between an alloy and a metalic (sic) housing?
• It appears that Patima housings are depth rated to 80 metres. You might, but most divers will not get anywhere near that depth. Most "manufacturer's" housings are (only) rated to 40 metres and most bespoke housings (Ikelite, 10Bar etc) to 60 metres which is ample for most divers.
• What makes you think that an alloy or metalic (sic) housing is always better than a polycarbonate or lexan housing? Or, for that matter, a carbon fibre housing? You know, Formula 1 racing cars are largely made from that stuff. Do you have any evidence, other than empirical, for your inferred claim?

[Big Blue BSAC]

I feel compelled to comment:

• What has the size of the camera to do with the price of eggs?
• What is the difference between an alloy and a metalic (sic) housing?
• It appears that Patima housings are depth rated to 80 metres. You might, but most divers will not get anywhere near that depth. Most "manufacturer's" housings are (only) rated to 40 metres and most bespoke housings (Ikelite, 10Bar etc) to 60 metres which is ample for most divers.
• What makes you think that an alloy or metalic (sic) housing is always better than a polycarbonate or lexan housing? Or, for that matter, a carbon fibre housing? You know, Formula 1 racing cars are largely made from that stuff. Do you have any evidence, other than empirical, for your inferred claim?

Depth is one nice feature but it wasn't the reason behind mentioning it.

The canon stock housing for the G11 is not ideal for such an expensive camera. The hinged design is ok for smaller sized housings but not for the larger ones. Additionally the buttons tend to get sticky and it's too big to put in a bcd pocket which means it's dangling somewhere on the diver.

there's a good chance to impact damage so a lexan housing for a camera that expensive isn't worth it.

I guess you could get a carbon fibre housing but it would cost a fortune and be of no benefit.

My patima housing is a clasp closing housing, uses a recessed o-ring much like you find on umbilical torches. It has strobe mounts and options for 6 pin or other lightings.

It also takes a hell of a beating and still works perfect.

The only evidence i have is that i have had many stock housings and dive every single day professionally, at one point i had 7 different camera's and housings from sony and canon which i rented out to divers daily. I also have a G11 with the stock housing and a Patima housing. So no official study, just field work.

[ChristianG]

The canon stock housing for the G11 is not ideal for such an expensive camera. The hinged design is ok for smaller sized housings but not for the larger ones. Additionally the buttons tend to get sticky and it's too big to put in a bcd pocket which means it's dangling somewhere on the diver.
A much better explanation than:

the size of the camera makes the stock housing too weak. there's a good chance to impact damage so a lexan housing for a camera that expensive isn't worth it.
The G12 (not much different from the G11 which is discontinued) is available from my favourite supplier for $US500 whereas the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III (Body Only) can be had from that same supplier for $US7000. Depends on your perception of "expensive" I suppose.

Incidentally, although I agree with you about hinged housing design, I consider it an inherent weakness of housings of any size at all rather than just "smaller sized housings".

As for "impact damage" - that is something that all divers have to live with, even when using the most expensive dSLR housings where it will usually make its presence felt in the lens port area. Me? I shudder sometimes at the hard time that some divers give their camera systems and which they seem to consider is perfectly normal. For example, you mention "sticky buttons". That commonly occurs (in "plastic" housings) when the housing is taken (a) below its rated depth and/or (b) the buttons are loaded up with salt crystals. That's operator error in both instances - no two ways about it.

I guess you could get a carbon fibre housing but it would cost a fortune and be of no benefit.
Of no benefit? Some might disagree with you there. I only threw that hat into the ring to point out that there are also other materials out there.

My patima housing is a clasp closing housing, uses a recessed o-ring much like you find on umbilical torches. It has strobe mounts and options for 6 pin or other lightings.
It has the original Nikonos bulkhead as standard and this first saw the light of day some 40 years ago. They may also do something more modern but I wasn't bothered to go and look, especially since their English pages are, shall we say, somewhat clunky.

The only evidence i have is that i have had many stock housings. I also have a G11 with the stock housing and a Patima housing. So no official study, just field work.
That's a far cry from your original allegations.