BS-AC membership, "Exit Interviews?"

[Matt Duke]

Hello,

I wonder if HQ contact a sample of divers that do not renew their membership each year? Sort of akin to an exit interview.

I hear lots of cries about the declining membership, and wonder what the reasons were.

I suspect this does already happen, and I have probably missed the link on the site, or perhaps it's kept internal. I know I wasn't asked for feedback when I left the club, but I guess a "Sample" of leavers are used?

Safe Diving all.

Cheers

Matt Duke
Bergen, Norway
BSAC Member 1992-2004

[john williams]

Hello,

I wonder if HQ contact a sample of divers that do not renew their membership each year? Sort of akin to an exit interview.

I hear lots of cries about the declining membership, and wonder what the reasons were.

I suspect this does already happen, and I have probably missed the link on the site, or perhaps it's kept internal. I know I wasn't asked for feedback when I left the club, but I guess a "Sample" of leavers are used?

Safe Diving all.

Cheers

Matt Duke
Bergen, Norway
BSAC Member 1992-2004

Yes they do. Everyone who does not renew is written to after 3 months with a questionaire to try to determine why they left, if there was anything we could have done to keep them and to remind them of the benefits of membership.

After 6 months - if they have still not renewed (and did not return the completed questionaire) they are written to again to remind them of the benefits of membership.

After that - we cut our losses!

(at least this was the procedure when I was involved in it - not that many months ago!)

HTH

John

[Matt Duke]

Thanks John!

Is the data available on the Website? With it being election time, I would think it might be nice to see.

Best Regards

Matt

[Bill Bird]

Thanks John!

Is the data available on the Website? With it being election time, I would think it might be nice to see.

Best Regards

Matt

I have an interest in turnover (as a Personnel Professional it in a recurrent theme for companies), and would be interested to find out how many people respond - against how many approaches are made), and whether there is any particular trends that may be useful for branches to know.

Regards.


Bill

[Vic]

> Yes they do. Everyone who does not renew is written to after 3
> months with a questionaire to try to determine why they left

Not strictly true.

I know several people personally who did not receive the questionnaire.

Vic.

[Chris Cherrington]

I have an interest in turnover (as a Personnel Professional it in a recurrent theme for companies), and would be interested to find out how many people respond - against how many approaches are made), and whether there is any particular trends that may be useful for branches to know.

Regards.


Bill

Both myself and the missus had the questionnaire. We did not respond. The reason being it didn't ask anything sensible (I am a Market Research Consultant in the "real" world). I doubt BSAC learns much from the process. Shame.

Chris

[andycarroll]

> Yes they do. Everyone who does not renew is written to after 3
> months with a questionaire to try to determine why they left

Not strictly true.

I know several people personally who did not receive the questionnaire.

Vic.

Well, more probably they 'don't recall' getting it as I'm sure its not the sort of thing you would look out for.

A better idea is to send the questionnairre to the branch. They, being closer to the member, will know more about it and be perhaps more interested in providing a response

Andy

[Adrian Kelland]

:=> Yes they do. Everyone who does not renew is written to after 3
:=> months with a questionaire to try to determine why they left
:=
:=Not strictly true.
:=
:=I know several people personally who did not receive the questionnaire.
:=
:=Vic.

Well, more probably they 'don't recall' getting it as I'm sure its not the sort of thing you would look out for.

A better idea is to send the questionnairre to the branch. They, being closer to the member, will know more about it and be perhaps more interested in providing a response

Andy

The branch might be closer Andy, or perhaps part of the problem.

Sending it to the ex-member at least means it does get to them. Sending it to a branch sec would be a poor second option.

Adrian

[andycarroll]

:=:=> Yes they do. Everyone who does not renew is written to after 3
:=:=> months with a questionaire to try to determine why they left
:=:=
:=:=Not strictly true.
:=:=
:=:=I know several people personally who did not receive the questionnaire.
:=:=
:=:=Vic.
:=
:=Well, more probably they 'don't recall' getting it as I'm sure its not the sort of thing you would look out for.
:=
:=A better idea is to send the questionnairre to the branch. They, being closer to the member, will know more about it and be perhaps more interested in providing a response
:=
:=Andy

The branch might be closer Andy, or perhaps part of the problem.

Sending it to the ex-member at least means it does get to them. Sending it to a branch sec would be a poor second option.

Adrian

Hi

They might be part of the problem, but you would at least get one side of the story. Send it to both is what I am saying. It wouldn't even cost any extra, as BSAC HQ send stuff to the branches all the time.

Andy

[Bill Bird]

:= I have an interest in turnover (as a Personnel Professional it in a recurrent theme for companies), and would be interested to find out how many people respond - against how many approaches are made), and whether there is any particular trends that may be useful for branches to know.
:=
:=Regards.
:=
:=
:=Bill

Both myself and the missus had the questionnaire. We did not respond. The reason being it didn't ask anything sensible (I am a Market Research Consultant in the "real" world). I doubt BSAC learns much from the process. Shame.

Chris

Chris,

I'd be interested in why you left (am I presuming here?), and I'm a current BSAC member. I've never seen a questionnaire so it's difficult to gauge whether the questions were sensible or not - and sensible is a perception because you may be second guessing what BSAC are tryig to get out of it.

I find that in Personnel if one person throws up a reason why they leave it's difficult to draw much in the way of conclusion and learn anything from it. If lots of people say the same thing, then you need to react and take notice.

If you've got the skill to look at the questionairre and make suggestions as to what we should be asking then I'm certain someone on Council would be only too pleased to receive your input.

REgards.


Bill

[Chris Cherrington]

Chris,

I'd be interested in why you left (am I presuming here?), and I'm a current BSAC member. I've never seen a questionnaire so it's difficult to gauge whether the questions were sensible or not - and sensible is a perception because you may be second guessing what BSAC are tryig to get out of it.

I find that in Personnel if one person throws up a reason why they leave it's difficult to draw much in the way of conclusion and learn anything from it. If lots of people say the same thing, then you need to react and take notice.

If you've got the skill to look at the questionairre and make suggestions as to what we should be asking then I'm certain someone on Council would be only too pleased to receive your input.

REgards.


Bill

We left mainly due to a mixture of cost and personal reasons.

The questionnaire was too vague (IMO) to get any real hard data. It seemed to start from a pre-supposition of why you joined (e.g. training - which was something of no interest to us in the first place).

Its a bit chicken & egg - to know what to ask you need to figure what it is you need to know. If you want the real truth the questions must not lead people in a particular direction.

The other side of the coin is to think about what might be changed if you have the data. Its not much use finding out people leave for a reason you can't change.

For what its worth, I feel that the biggest problem branches have is there are not enough members to "make things happen" We for example had several planned dives cancelled due to insufficient people booking. On one occassion the missus had booked time off work specifically to do a particularly good wreck. One solution would have been to merge the 3 branches all within 5 miles of one another. Instead each branch tried to poach members from the others.

Not sure what can be done about that since branches are autonomous.

Looked at from that angle there probably isn't much HQ can do period.

Chris

[Bill Bird]

:=Chris,
:=
:=I'd be interested in why you left (am I presuming here?), and I'm a current BSAC member. I've never seen a questionnaire so it's difficult to gauge whether the questions were sensible or not - and sensible is a perception because you may be second guessing what BSAC are tryig to get out of it.
:=
:=I find that in Personnel if one person throws up a reason why they leave it's difficult to draw much in the way of conclusion and learn anything from it. If lots of people say the same thing, then you need to react and take notice.
:=
:=If you've got the skill to look at the questionairre and make suggestions as to what we should be asking then I'm certain someone on Council would be only too pleased to receive your input.
:=
:=REgards.
:=
:=
:=Bill

We left mainly due to a mixture of cost and personal reasons.

The questionnaire was too vague (IMO) to get any real hard data. It seemed to start from a pre-supposition of why you joined (e.g. training - which was something of no interest to us in the first place).

Its a bit chicken & egg - to know what to ask you need to figure what it is you need to know. If you want the real truth the questions must not lead people in a particular direction.

The other side of the coin is to think about what might be changed if you have the data. Its not much use finding out people leave for a reason you can't change.

For what its worth, I feel that the biggest problem branches have is there are not enough members to "make things happen" We for example had several planned dives cancelled due to insufficient people booking. On one occassion the missus had booked time off work specifically to do a particularly good wreck. One solution would have been to merge the 3 branches all within 5 miles of one another. Instead each branch tried to poach members from the others.

Not sure what can be done about that since branches are autonomous.

Looked at from that angle there probably isn't much HQ can do period.

Chris

Chris,

Sorry that you left BSAC. I've been with branch since I joined, and we've averaged about 100 members for last 14 years. Even so, we have had years when dives are undersubscribed even with those numbers. If a branch wants to keep autonamy that's understandable. We've made a point of not poaching memebsr from other branches, but members will move from one branch to another for their own reasons. Maybe what would be a better approach was that if Regional Teams became a point to encourage local branches to "co-operate" more, and to avoid that poaching circle that you referred to. Maybe that's the real weakness?

Hope you decide to rejoin the fold at some time and give branch life another go.

Regards.



Bill

[Edward Haynes]

Hi Matt

An interesting little thread, I am a current Council candidate and have a personal interest in the workings of HQ (I assisted in writing the HQ Operations Manual).

No promises, but all these snippets of info do get logged in the grey matter.

Edward

[Martin Plenderleith]

Hello,

I wonder if HQ contact a sample of divers that do not renew their membership each year? Sort of akin to an exit interview.

I hear lots of cries about the declining membership, and wonder what the reasons were.

I suspect this does already happen, and I have probably missed the link on the site, or perhaps it's kept internal. I know I wasn't asked for feedback when I left the club, but I guess a "Sample" of leavers are used?

Safe Diving all.

Cheers

Matt Duke
Bergen, Norway
BSAC Member 1992-2004


I just recieved one of these "Exit Interviews" many of the questions on it arent relevant to me though Im not sure how common my case is. Ive been an active diver with ScotSAC since 95 reacently I transfered to BSAC and since then have recieved insult upon insult directed towards my ScotSAC routs. My branch is a University branch and I assumed would be used to picking up members from all over and would be grateful to recieve another instructor but no I was treated with mistrust and resentment for the word go. Dont get me wrong I think its a good thing for DOs to assess new members regardless of qualifications as they are ultimately responsible for all diving in their branch. However it soon became aparent that despit having 6 years less experiance than me the DO (and the commity in general) held me in utter contempt as wasnt BSAC. If this attitude is wide spread through out the organisation I can understand the dwindeling membership as there is no sence of commeradery or belonging.

[TerryH]

I just recieved one of these "Exit Interviews" many of the questions on it arent relevant to me though Im not sure how common my case is. Ive been an active diver with ScotSAC since 95 reacently I transfered to BSAC and since then have recieved insult upon insult directed towards my ScotSAC routs. My branch is a University branch and I assumed would be used to picking up members from all over and would be grateful to recieve another instructor but no I was treated with mistrust and resentment for the word go. Dont get me wrong I think its a good thing for DOs to assess new members regardless of qualifications as they are ultimately responsible for all diving in their branch. However it soon became aparent that despit having 6 years less experiance than me the DO (and the commity in general) held me in utter contempt as wasnt BSAC. If this attitude is wide spread through out the organisation I can understand the dwindeling membership as there is no sence of commeradery or belonging.:=

All comes down to the individual club. I've found that those
club officers who have other agency tickets tend to have a
more open attitude. They see you as a diver who needs less,
not more work. Ok you might need some local orientation dives,
but that would apply to a warm-water BSAC diver as much as a
PADI one.

Bottom line here is that one club is not BSAC. We are after all
a collection of clubs, all who have diverse attitudes and can
be very different.

If you came to our club (also Uni), you would be welcome with
open arms, no question.

TerryH

[Nigel Hewitt]

I just recieved one of these "Exit Interviews" many of the questions on it arent relevant to me though Im not sure how common my case is. Ive been an active diver with ScotSAC since 95 reacently I transfered to BSAC and since then have recieved insult upon insult directed towards my ScotSAC routs. My branch is a University branch and I assumed would be used to picking up members from all over and would be grateful to recieve another instructor but no I was treated with mistrust and resentment for the word go.

Please! Please! Write this up for the reply. If all goes well it should feed back discreetly. It would be nice to think it would end up in the hands of Regional Coach who might be able to help them with a bit of revision for the 'Trained diver acquisition and retaining for clubs' SDC.

[Mike Halligan]

I just recieved one of these "Exit Interviews" many of the questions on it arent relevant to me though Im not sure how common my case is. Ive been an active diver with ScotSAC since 95 reacently I transfered to BSAC and since then have recieved insult upon insult directed towards my ScotSAC routs. My branch is a University branch and I assumed would be used to picking up members from all over and would be grateful to recieve another instructor but no I was treated with mistrust and resentment for the word go. Dont get me wrong I think its a good thing for DOs to assess new members regardless of qualifications as they are ultimately responsible for all diving in their branch. However it soon became aparent that despit having 6 years less experiance than me the DO (and the commity in general) held me in utter contempt as wasnt BSAC. If this attitude is wide spread through out the organisation I can understand the dwindeling membership as there is no sence of commeradery or belonging.

Martin,

Please, please, do not judge the whole of the BSAC by the prejudices of just one Branch.

Whatever you may think of the questions, we need to know what you are willing to tell us, including why the questions are wrong!

If nothing else, please expand on your very clear description above through the proper "exit interview" channel. Rest assured, however, that I shall convey your post direct to one or two relevant ears. I guess that Keith will probably do the same at a far higher level than I.

Enjoy your diving, wherever and with whoever. I hope your next experience of the BSAC is considerably happier.

Mike

[CAS]

Bottom line here is that one club is not BSAC. We are after all
a collection of clubs, all who have diverse attitudes and can
be very different.

That's the problem in a nutshell! We are all supposed to be part of the same club (BSAC) only grouped together in branches.

If you came to our club (also Uni), you would be welcome with
open arms, no question.

And indeed ours (not a Uni club), we have "crossover" divers (including me) from various agencies and many divers with tickets from multiple agencies.

Branches should (said he presuming to know everything!) be able to get guidance on other agency tickets and areas that may differ from BSAC ones from HQ (if there isn't the experience in the branch) and HQ should be promoting an open culture to its branches as well as potential "crossover" members...

...(Unfortunately) I count myself lucky I joined the branch I did - there seem to be a few "horrors" out there!

CAS

[TerryH]

:=Bottom line here is that one club is not BSAC. We are after all
:=a collection of clubs, all who have diverse attitudes and can
:=be very different.

That's the problem in a nutshell! We are all supposed to be part of the same club (BSAC) only grouped together in branches.


Agreed, but how far do clubs go to break down the barriers?
Each October we have upto about a dozen or so PADI guys
crossing over to BSAC. They join the previous years Ocean
Divers who are now doing Sport. First lesson isnt BSAC,
but diver/instructor grades and how they relate to each
other. Next is the PADI RDP followed by BSAC 88's.

Of course we want to train the PADI guys in BSAC, but we also
want to get across that our Ocean divers should understand
PADI.

That's one reason why there seems to be a better response from
clubs that are multi-agency. Takes that 1st agency is best
aligence and turns it on it's head, taking the best from both
agencies.

Last PRM course we did was by the BSAC book. Soon as it was
finished it was onto PADI rescue. I'd like to think the result
was a more well rounded and knowledgable rescue diver.


Branches should (said he presuming to know everything!) be able to get guidance on other agency tickets and areas that may differ from BSAC ones from HQ (if there isn't the experience in the branch) and HQ should be promoting an open culture to its branches as well as potential "crossover" members...


Absolutley, but it is very difficult to overcome the predujice
in an insular branch and that applies to a PADI diver as much
as a BSAC one. Probably the best you are going to get for now
is a well published route for those not getting a good
crossover to be able to complain to BSAC.

Of course the other way is to declare in your blurb that you
are other-agency friendly, but that would suggest that without
such a statement you wer'nt and might cause further offence.

TerryH

[Martin Plenderleith]

:=Bottom line here is that one club is not BSAC. We are after all
:=a collection of clubs, all who have diverse attitudes and can
:=be very different.

That's the problem in a nutshell! We are all supposed to be part of the same club (BSAC) only grouped together in branches.

:=If you came to our club (also Uni), you would be welcome with
:=open arms, no question.

And indeed ours (not a Uni club), we have "crossover" divers (including me) from various agencies and many divers with tickets from multiple agencies.

Branches should (said he presuming to know everything!) be able to get guidance on other agency tickets and areas that may differ from BSAC ones from HQ (if there isn't the experience in the branch) and HQ should be promoting an open culture to its branches as well as potential "crossover" members...

...(Unfortunately) I count myself lucky I joined the branch I did - there seem to be a few "horrors" out there!

CAS

Im glad to here that its not a general problem. Ive always known ScotSAC and BSAC have had there differances in the past but I thought by and large all differences were set aside a few years back guess a few people are just slow to catch on. To be fair I have heard of ScotSAC branches being equally biased against BSAC and PADI members.

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

I just recieved one of these "Exit Interviews" many of the questions on it arent relevant to me though Im not sure how common my case is. Ive been an active diver with ScotSAC since 95 reacently I transfered to BSAC and since then have recieved insult upon insult directed towards my ScotSAC routs. My branch is a University branch and I assumed would be used to picking up members from all over and would be grateful to recieve another instructor but no I was treated with mistrust and resentment for the word go. Dont get me wrong I think its a good thing for DOs to assess new members regardless of qualifications as they are ultimately responsible for all diving in their branch. However it soon became aparent that despit having 6 years less experiance than me the DO (and the commity in general) held me in utter contempt as wasnt BSAC. If this attitude is wide spread through out the organisation I can understand the dwindeling membership as there is no sence of commeradery or belonging.

What a sorry tale Martin :-( The individuality and diversity of our clubs has always been our greatest strength, but in this case it is also our greatest weakness. My attitude (and I must say the majority BSAC attitude) is that a diver is a diver is a diver, anybody who thinks that a non-BSAC trained diver is somehow ?inferior? needs to get a clue and wake up to the real world!

As for ScotSAC ? a long established and well respected club who we work very closely with, our NDO was a guest speaker at their annual conference recently, the clueless DO who you encountered might like to find out where ScotSAC source their diving manual from.

Please don?t judge us all by one club Martin, as you have seen from some of the replies you were unlucky enough to find the exception rather than the rule. Not every club will suit every diver for a whole variety of reasons, but I can virtually guarantee that there will be a club that does suit you within a reasonable distance. If you haven?t already then <a href="http://www.bsac14.org.uk/" >http://www.bsac14.org.uk/</a> might be worth a try, pay them (or any club) a visit on a guest basis to sound them out before you actually join.

Thanks for your post Martin, I found it constructive and I hope that some of our more backward clubs take note of what you have said.

Keith Lawrence
BSAC Council Member