Club Auction - Liabilities?

[Neil Radcliffe]

My club is thinking of holding a dive kit auction evening. Basically putting those with second-hand kit to sell in touch with those wanting to buy - and raising a small commission for the club along the way. And hopefully a fun evening too.

The slight concern is whether anyone in the club would be liable if any of the kit proves to be defective and e.g. contributes to an incident? Else what steps should we take to ensure that we aren't liable?

Pointers gratefully received - and clarification on whether it's an opinion or definite knowledge would be helpful in this situation!

Thanks.

[steve anderson]

Just my opinion....

If you clearly state that the equipment is in working order but used, that it should be serviced by an authorised service engineer before use and that the club holds no responsibility for the use or condition of the equipment and will not provide any gaurantee. Do this and you should be okay..

In effect is it "sold as seen", same as any private transaction.

Hope this helps, but remember, "I hold no legal responsibility for any claims"..... you get the drift.

Cheers, Steve

[David Applin]

Whilst I understand the intent is asking the question.........

Is anyone else fed up that we are in a cuture where we are having to ask this?

For gods sake..... buying some second hand kit at aution is buyer beware and lets lynch those b*st*rds who turn a bit of fundraising into money for the lawyers.

Regards


David

[Edward Haynes]

Neil

Contact Mary Tetley at HQ on 0151 350 6220 and just check what this year's insurance covers. Even so, I would suggest your committee have a Risk Assessment carried out for the auction.

IMHO items sold at an auction are "as seen", but I have a feeling the Sale of Goods Act applies. I would recommend all equipment put up as serviceable has a recent service or test certificate confirming it is "fit for purpose". Otherwise, make it plain the items are defective in some way.

HTH

Edward Haynes

[Andy Wade]

Neil

Contact Mary Tetley at HQ on 0151 350 6220 and just check what this year's insurance covers. Even so, I would suggest your committee have a Risk Assessment carried out for the auction.

IMHO items sold at an auction are "as seen", but I have a feeling the Sale of Goods Act applies. I would recommend all equipment put up as serviceable has a recent service or test certificate confirming it is "fit for purpose". Otherwise, make it plain the items are defective in some way.


Good points, Edward.
I go to a couple of local auctions from time to time and one thing that they both do where electrical and similar items are concerned is that they say, "Well we plugged it in and the lights came on, but we didn't test it any more than that, so you take the usual chance when bidding for this item."
Or words to that effect. They always make this disclaimer.
I never thought about it before but I guess that's to comply with the sale of goods act.
Perhaps a couple of posters on the walls where the auction is to be held would be useful, something like:
"All items are sold as seen and no items have been tested to see if they work correctly, we therefore recommend that the winning buyer has their item tested before using it. No responsibility can be taken for anyone ignoring this advice".

A couple of of other points:

They have a viewing period the day before so that people can handle items and test them, so that the auction isn't disrupted by people turning stuff on. Maybe the diving club could have say a one hour period before the auction starts allocated for this.

And no items are allowed to be removed from the sale rooms until after the completion of the auction, it stops people nicking stuff and makes the auction run without disruption
All winners get a ticket to produce afterwards in exchange for their auction item, they do also have to pay a deposit for the ticket during the auction, usually 10% of the total price.
Perhaps this could be added to the posters.
I guess that all this depends on how big the auction is of course. Some of the auctions I visit can have 400 lots or more in a 4 hour period.

Oh, and one other thing I just thought of, don't forget to sell tea, coffee & biscuits etc to help swell the club's coffers ....you should always be looking for ways to take money off people!

.

[steve Parry]

You idicate that your club is acting as an agent by introducing
prospective buyer to seller. Why take a commision on the sale ?
Maybe the succesful seller would like to make a 'voluntary
contribution' to club funds as the club hosted the buyer/seller
forum.

as regards liability for defective kit, think about keeping this in perspective- sold as seen is a bit more complex than you may imagine. A bona-fide private seller should offer to take the goods back/refund monies if the buyer agrees to a
return period: ie: the buyer can use the first available oppurtunity to test the goods in question and no obvious defects are obvious. At least then you are looking at sold
as seen with good intent.

Annother point to watch, which is a sad reflection of the times
relates to stolen goods. I have heard of divers buying regulators in good faith via EBAY and getting a call from the
police shortly afterwards advising the unsuspecting purchaser they were in reciept of stolen goods and therefore not the legal owner.

With a bit of planning & strategy you should be able totake the club out of the direct transaction path, but suggest a code of conduct on returns within a specified period etc. At the end of the day you want the event to be successul but controled so no-one feels they have been ripped off.

Regards

Steve Parry

My club is thinking of holding a dive kit auction evening. Basically putting those with second-hand kit to sell in touch with those wanting to buy - and raising a small commission for the club along the way. And hopefully a fun evening too.

The slight concern is whether anyone in the club would be liable if any of the kit proves to be defective and e.g. contributes to an incident? Else what steps should we take to ensure that we aren't liable?

Pointers gratefully received - and clarification on whether it's an opinion or definite knowledge would be helpful in this situation!

Thanks.

[terryh]

as regards liability for defective kit, think about keeping this in perspective- sold as seen is a bit more complex than you may imagine. A bona-fide private seller should offer to take the goods back/refund monies if the buyer agrees to a
return period: ie: the buyer can use the first available oppurtunity to test the goods in question and no obvious defects are obvious. At least then you are looking at sold
as seen with good intent.


Sorry, really dont agree with this one.
Kit may or may not be ok, but that is down to the individuals
concerned and "caveat emptor" (spelling?). To even suggest any
form of return period or guarantee makes a nonsense of selling/buying S/H anyway.

Eg: I sell a reg combo, I do so on the understanding that it
needs a 50 pound service. Why should I entertain a complaint
eg: "It doesnt breathe right" when the service would easily fix
that.

In fact at what point do you stop? Dump valve on a BC is
broken, so I reduce the BC by 20% to cover replacment. Do I
then have to hand back that dosh (of the now repaired BC)
when he decides the BC is not for him?

What of the dodgy bloke who buys the kit, takes out/off elements and replaces them with his own (broken) kit.
(Might be as simple as popping out a working Uwatec gauge for a
duff one). How are you going to know when he brings it back saying that it didnt work right?

I've been in a shop where a guy tried to bring back a cylinder
with a din valve replaced with his A-clamp (he didnt get a
refund and was shown the door).

Sell it as seen, with as true a possible description of what
it's like and a recomendation that it is checked and serviced
by a professional scuba technician. Knock up a sale form
that says exactly that on the top half and get them to sign
at the bottom to say they have read and are aware of the
circumstances of the sale.

TerryH

[PeteM]

For gods sake..... buying some second hand kit at aution is buyer beware and lets lynch those b*st*rds who turn a bit of fundraising into money for the lawyers.

I'll go with that one