Branch Kit - Equipment Servicing

[martin greaves]

I recently found myself to be Equipment Officer at my branch (University of London SAC) - you know how it is at AGMs. Anyway at a recent committee meeting I raised the subject of equipment servicing - what was the branch policy, what did we do in practise, did we have a policy written down etc. I then spoke to BSAC HQ who were very helpful and recommended that DVs and BCDs be serviced annually by a certified person with appropriate records then kept of what was done, when, who by, how much etc. Without going in to too much detail let's just say that we don't quite manage that. Cylinders are of course tested when required. Like many if not all student branches, we are very poor.

What do similar branches to about servicing? Do you plead and beg for enough funding? Recover the cost through hire charges? Do you have your own policy - e.g. service every two years, do it yourself, fix it when it's broken, etc etc? In essence - how do you balance being cash-strapped against keeping the kit in order and if the worst happened and there was an incident, you'd be able to demonstrate that you'd taken reasonable steps to prevent the incident?

All comments gratefully received - many thanks

Martin Greaves
Equipment Officer ULSAC, BSAC69

[Tony Dwyer]

Martin

All our 'in use' regs are serviced every year by a local dive shop. They also look after cylinder testing which is carried out in line with current legislation.

We keep a database of euipment details, which includes servicing and a comments history.
We look after BC's ourselves. Cleaning and replacement of valves is a simple matter.

The cost of servicing is borne out of membership fees. New joiners pay a premium which helps in sorting out the wear and tear on the kit they use. So far we've managed quite well.

When kit is issued to a new joiner or borrowed by a qualified diver (not often), they sign for it and undertake to look after it. They are issued with printed notes on the care of the equipment.

They will be held responsible for any obvious damage (beyond normal wear)or loss.

Tony Dwyer
Basildon Sub-Aqua Club - Branch 0356

[TerryH]

Hi Martin, as a fellow EO of a Uni club heres's a few ideas.

1. Firstly get your new kit policy right.
Pick a manufacturer of BC's, regs etc. and stick with that
brand. Doesnt matter if you are working towards it and it's
years away before you get there, start now.

2. Don't just service kit when you think it needs it.
Always follow the manufacturers recommended service intervals.
(standardised kit = common service dates).

3. Negotiate bulk discounts. You can do this on new kit,
servicing, cylinder testing etc. and don't be afraid to contact
manufacturers direct. You might not be trade, but mention more
than 4 reg/BC combos and they sure will drop the price.

4. Dont forget to mark kit and that means everything. Add a
diffrent colour cable-tie to every part of one combo set.
If a hose is swapped then you know that it belongs to the eg.
the red set etc. This is very important when you havnt got a
common service date. Of course you need to take serial numbers
and have a stock of brown labels to attach when there is
something wrong.

5. Standardise dry suit hoses. When joining your club you tell
them that all club regs have the ??? Apex Valve. If they want
to use club kit then they have to change the nipple on there
drysuit. Similarly if you have eg. buddy BC's and they want to
use there own regs, tough. The hose stays where it is and they
use club regs.

6. We have the luxury of having 3 certified technicians
(including myself) and only these are allowed to change
anything. If there is a problem and there is no technician,
then we hand out a spare reg.
The aim is to not touch the regs if possible and leave them as they came out of the service center.

As for getting all this kit, we decided a few years ago, that
a RIB was a money pit and that as we were based on the South
Coast we would be better to use hardboats and direct our
efforts to getting better kit. I'm glad to say that this has prooved to be an extremly successfull policy.

Hope some of this helps.

If you want some more detailed stuff email me.

Rgds
TerryH

[iainmsmith]

As another Uni Equipment Officer ("Q"), I agree with most of Terry's points.

Especially:

2. Don't just service kit when you think it needs it.
Always follow the manufacturers recommended service
intervals.

Bear in mind the consequences for those responsible for looking after the kit (the Q, the DO, the Branch Committee as a whole) if a piece of equipment fails outside its service intervals. I take a completely different attitude to my own kit - it gets fixed when it's broken - but for club kit, you have to have the paper trail to show that you were doing what you were supposed to.

We had a bad patch with a certain type of reg, where we had three first stages fail within about six months. Fortunately no-one was hurt, but having all the test certificates meant that the Equipment Officer and I (DO, at the time) could say with certainty that the fault did not lie within the Branch.

(standardised kit = common service dates).

However, we have a rolling timetable of service dates - that way we never find ourselves with no kit available. Our dates do, of course, take into account the peaks and troughs of the annual demand cycle.

4. Dont forget to mark kit and that means everything. Add a
diffrent colour cable-tie to every part of one combo set.
If a hose is swapped then you know that it belongs to the eg.
the red set etc. This is very important when you havnt got a
common service date. Of course you need to take serial numbers
and have a stock of brown labels to attach when there is
something wrong.

If you've got more than a few sets, it's easier to paint numbers onto kit or to engrave it. eg all our first stages have "CUUEG" and a number lightly engraved on them. All our second stages and all our consoles have a number painted on them.

And we use white tape, rather than brown, because it stands out more. I placed a large box in the kit store with a whiteboard above it, labelled, "Female Dog List" [I suspect the forum auto-censor wouldn't let me put the actual title]. Kit which has problems is taped, placed in the box and a brief description is written on the board. All I have to do is to pop into the store, collect the kit and make a decision whether to fix it there, fix it at home, or take it to the dive shop.

5. Standardise dry suit hoses. When joining your club you
tell them that all club regs have the ??? Apex Valve. If
they want to use club kit then they have to change the
nipple on there drysuit. Similarly if you have eg. buddy
BC's and they want to use there own regs, tough. The hose
stays where it is and they use club regs.

This is where I start to disagree. I think it's an excellent idea for equipment to lose its mystique. It does that best when people discover how simple it is to swap parts around as needed. It encourages people to be adaptable. What is the harm in someone putting their own hose on a club reg set? As long as they swap everything back again, what's the problem? And if they don't swap everything back, then you have a quiet word with them and explain why they owe you a pint.

6. We have the luxury of having 3 certified technicians
(including myself) and only these are allowed to change
anything. If there is a problem and there is no technician,
then we hand out a spare reg.
The aim is to not touch the regs if possible and leave them
as they came out of the service center.

While I envy Terry his technicians, I think it's ludicrous to give the impression that something other than a spanner is required to swap hoses/DVs/gauges around. We had a trip out where a DV failed on one set, while an SPG swivel o-ring failed on another. Simple solution - swap HP hoses and DVs and you create one working set. OK - it cost me a few minutes sorting the various bits out when they all came back...but I had to do that anyway to fix the problems.

I do hope no-one is going to pretend that one has to be a technician to be able to change an o-ring?

We also get by without a RIB. In some ways, this gives us more variation in our diving, as there is no pressure to use the RIB to make it worth having. Hence shore diving, shuttle diving, hard boat diving, liveaboard diving can all be organised without upsetting the Boat Officer.

Iain

[TerryH]

This is where I start to disagree. I think it's an excellent idea for equipment to lose its mystique. It does that best when people discover how simple it is to swap parts around as needed. It encourages people to be adaptable. What is the harm in someone putting their own hose on a club reg set? As long as they swap everything back again, what's the problem? And if they don't swap everything back, then you have a quiet word with them and explain why they owe you a pint.


Ask yourself this question. Have you made reasonable provision
for the safety of individuals using club kit?
Whats better, one responsible individual (the EO) or a free for
all.

The "harm" is that the day you are not on site, will be the
day that your student overtightens and splits that o-ring.

Just comes down to how far you want to take liabity.

BTW. I still have a DS4 with stripped threads where a student
thought he new how to add a hose.


While I envy Terry his technicians, I think it's ludicrous to give the impression that something other than a spanner is required to swap hoses/DVs/gauges around. We had a trip out where a DV failed on one set, while an SPG swivel o-ring failed on another. Simple solution - swap HP hoses and DVs and you create one working set. OK - it cost me a few minutes sorting the various bits out when they all came back...but I had to do that anyway to fix the problems.

I do hope no-one is going to pretend that one has to be a technician to be able to change an o-ring?

Well if that happend we would grab the spare reg. (we always
carry 2 spare reg combos a BC, fins, boots, masks, DSMB's and
torches). All on the boat.

You dont have to be a technicin (although it makes it easy),
but simply designate specific individuals to do the job.

It's not that it's difficult, but that you have someone who
is culpable.

TerryH

[iainmsmith]

:=This is where I start to disagree. I think it's an excellent idea for equipment to lose its mystique. It does that best when people discover how simple it is to swap parts around as needed. It encourages people to be adaptable. What is the harm in someone putting their own hose on a club reg set? As long as they swap everything back again, what's the problem? And if they don't swap everything back, then you have a quiet word with them and explain why they owe you a pint.
:=

Ask yourself this question. Have you made reasonable
provision for the safety of individuals using club kit?

Whats better, one responsible individual (the EO) or a free
for all.

I don't suppose we've codified it anywhere (maybe we ought to) but isn't it a basic rule of diving that if you don't know what to do, ask someone who does? There will always be a Dive Marshal on a trip. Nine times out of ten (if not more) they will be happy to show someone how to change a hose (I showed a Dive Leader today, for example)

The "harm" is that the day you are not on site, will be the
day that your student overtightens and splits that o-ring.

The consequences of which are what? (S)he turns the tank on and the reg goes "hiss". Bugger. Time to change the o-ring. So what?

Just comes down to how far you want to take liabity.

BTW. I still have a DS4 with stripped threads where a student
thought he new how to add a hose.

You know as well as I do what they say about making something idiot proof. Anyone who tries to turn something that really doesn't want to turn and doesn't ask for help counts, in my book, as the better idiot.

:=While I envy Terry his technicians, I think it's ludicrous to give the impression that something other than a spanner is required to swap hoses/DVs/gauges around. We had a trip out where a DV failed on one set, while an SPG swivel o-ring failed on another. Simple solution - swap HP hoses and DVs and you create one working set. OK - it cost me a few minutes sorting the various bits out when they all came back...but I had to do that anyway to fix the problems.
:=
:=I do hope no-one is going to pretend that one has to be a technician to be able to change an o-ring?

Well if that happend we would grab the spare reg. (we always
carry 2 spare reg combos a BC, fins, boots, masks, DSMB's and
torches). All on the boat.

We normally have at least one complete set of BC and regs, but it's nice to be able to regenerate kit (even if only to create a spare set) when the QM isn't on the trip.

You dont have to be a technicin (although it makes it easy),
but simply designate specific individuals to do the job.

It's not that it's difficult, but that you have someone who
is culpable.

All the more reason for the individual to fix their own kit on the trip and to report back to the Equipment Officer on their return. On the other hand, if you follow your argument through, then _every_ item of kit has to be fixed by a qualified service tech. Which would, to my mind, be ludicrous. Your branch is both fortunate and rare to have formally qualified techs. The rest of us just get on and do it. Why should, for example, I be any safer at changing hoses than anyone else?

I do think that there is a slight excess of paranoia, though. We're talking about screwing one thing into another until it's finger tight, then turning it gently with a spanner. We're rapidly heading back to the car maintenance discussion here! :)

Regards,

Iain

[TerryH]

All the more reason for the individual to fix their own kit on the trip and to report back to the Equipment Officer on their return. On the other hand, if you follow your argument through, then _every_ item of kit has to be fixed by a qualified service tech. Which would, to my mind, be ludicrous. Your branch is both fortunate and rare to have formally qualified techs. The rest of us just get on and do it. Why should, for example, I be any safer at changing hoses than anyone else?


Although we have 3 technicans, not one of us is prepared to
take on the mantle of servicing club regs unless we have third
party liabity Insurance.

If you do the maths.
Insurance + discounted service kits vs Negotaited bulk discount
on professional servicing. Result, not a lot of diffrence.

So although we are certified by the manufacturer to service our
own regs we still get a pro to do it. As an addition to that
policy, the regs are altered as little as possible (if at all)
so that they are covered by the pro shop's guarantee and to
ensure that it is there responsiblity and not ours if there is
a problem.

Now you might think all this is excessive, but it all comes
down to the old saying.
"Have you made reasonable provision to ensure that the kit is
safe".

The reason you are safer than anyone else?
Your committeee appointed you as EO based on your maintanence
skills. Well they did, didnt they?

I'm not saying that every club needs to go to our extremes, but
if you can. Then why not?

Rgds
TerryH

[John Kendall]

Although we have 3 technicans, not one of us is prepared to
take on the mantle of servicing club regs unless we have third
party liabity Insurance.

But we are not talking about servicing regs, we are talking about swaping a couple of hoses over, or replacing a blown o-ring.

The reason you are safer than anyone else?
Your committeee appointed you as EO based on your maintanence
skills. Well they did, didnt they?

Er, No. The Q/EO is elected in the same way any other committee member is (Apart from TO)

Their remit is to keep the kit organised, and deal with the Kit hire charges.

Any diver should be competent to swap a couple of hoses over. If they are not, then their education is lacking (Diving or Life)

As for de-threading a first stage, they must have been a gorilla to put that much torque into a hose. Obviously they were not shown the right way. So Show them rather than ban anyone from trying.

Hmmm, sorry, turned into a rant, didn't mean to.

John

[edward haynes]

Just my pennies worth.

Er, No. The Q/EO is elected in the same way any other committee member is (Apart from TO)

If your Branch elects an Q/EO then you could end up with someone who has the gift of the gab, but no mechanical or organisational skills as your EO.

BSAC guidance is that the EO (if you require one) is appointed by the DO. After all its the DO (on behalf or the NDO) who is ultimately responsible for all matters concerning Branch diving and related equipment within a Branch, not the Committee.

Any diver should be competent to swap a couple of hoses over. If they are not, then their education is lacking (Diving or Life)

I would not let anyone but those approved by the DO (or delegated representative) to modify Branch kit or change a hose. My last Branch had to replace a 1st stage because of cross threading (and it doesn?t take that much force to cause damage).

Edward

[TerryH]

Er, No. The Q/EO is elected in the same way any other committee member is (Apart from TO)

Check again. The EO should be appointed/selected by the
committee based on his/her maintanece skills (or apptitude for
it) and if you want there decision ratified at the AGM.

Before you go off on your rant, how about looking at the
original post. We are a Uni club that gains limited funding
from the faculty & some from the Students Union.

The Faculty, Sport & Rec & Students Union all have there own
rules & regulations. They also have there own constitutions.
The SU has it's own Insurance policies with additional
underwriters rules.

Of course our club has it's own constitution and so has BSAC.

So we have not 2 as per the average club, but 5 diferent sets
of regulations to contend with. Add to that annual intake of
around 36 18/20 year old newbies in October (almost none of
which have there own kit) and you have an enviroment where:
Changing any kit without a proper technician resulting in
any incident (no matter how minor) could close us down.

Of course private regs are open season and you can do what you
like with them. It's just the club ones that we apply such
restictions to.

As a footnote .......
Another Uni branch 20 miles from us has a absoulute dont touch
policy. The regs are EXACTLY as they came out from the pro shop and are not ever touched unless they go back to the shop.
If you want to use them and you have eg. a different dry suit
hose then you change the nipple on your valve to suit. Not the
other way round.

& Footnote 2
As part of the regulations we have to go to Sports meetings
with all the other clubs. During a safety meeting we were all
asked for the number of First Aid qualified personnel and to
bring the results to the next meeting.

Football, Rugby etc all had the one or two. I believe the best
was climbing who had 4. When it came to our turn they had a bit
of a shock. Out of 70 members 55 were 1st Aid trained & 30 of
those O2 qualified, plus we had 3x 1st Aid Instructors!

We dont get asked if we have the required number of 1st Aiders
anymore.

Rgds
TerryH

[iainmsmith]

As an addition to that policy, the regs are altered as little
as possible (if at all) so that they are covered by the pro
shop's guarantee and to ensure that it is there responsiblity
and not ours if there is a problem.

Hmm...I had "issues" with regs which had not been in the water since servicing, so took them back to the LDS who insisted that their warranty only lasted for 3 months. Fortunately they agreed to fix things FOC, as the regs hadn't been in the water. How that would relate to liability, I'm not sure, but I suspect that there might be implications.

The reason you are safer than anyone else?
Your committeee appointed you as EO based on your maintanence
skills. Well they did, didnt they?

Nope. My job as EO is to ensure that the required kit is available for specified club activities, to keep equipment within its service schedule and, in general, to ensure that as much kit is available as much of the time as is possible. Not forgetting, of course, collecting kit hire debts from people.

How I achieve those objectives is up to me. It is far more efficient (both in time and effort) for me to regenerate kit by doing basic repairs (or, ideally, having the members do basic repairs on-site) than to take something to a dive shop for something simple. There are slightly more involved tasks that I'll do if necessary, although I'd normally send them to a dive shop. First stages though, I leave for the pros, unless they are mine. :-)

I'm not saying that every club needs to go to our extremes,
but if you can. Then why not?

Apart from anything else, I think it's good for people to be able to change o-rings and hoses so that they don't look like complete numpties when diving outside the club and something minor goes wrong.

Iain

[iainmsmith]

:=
:=Er, No. The Q/EO is elected in the same way any other committee member is (Apart from TO)

Check again. The EO should be appointed/selected by the
committee based on his/her maintanece skills (or apptitude for
it) and if you want there decision ratified at the AGM.

Why? See my previous for a description of what the job of the EO is. The administrative responsibilities of the job are surely even more significant than the practical abilities if one ascribes to the "technician only" approach - the great majority of Branches don't have technicians.

Before you go off on your rant, how about looking at the
original post. We are a Uni club that gains limited funding
from the faculty & some from the Students Union.

The Faculty, Sport & Rec & Students Union all have there own
rules & regulations. They also have there own constitutions.
The SU has it's own Insurance policies with additional
underwriters rules.

Of course our club has it's own constitution and so has BSAC.

So we have not 2 as per the average club, but 5 diferent sets
of regulations to contend with. Add to that annual intake of
around 36 18/20 year old newbies in October (almost none of
which have there own kit) and you have an enviroment where:
Changing any kit without a proper technician resulting in
any incident (no matter how minor) could close us down.

JK is my DO - we're not so very different from you. However, I get the impression that our Uni is somewhat more realistic about the nature of adventurous training.

As part of the regulations we have to go to Sports meetings
with all the other clubs. During a safety meeting we were all
asked for the number of First Aid qualified personnel and to
bring the results to the next meeting.

Football, Rugby etc all had the one or two. I believe the best
was climbing who had 4. When it came to our turn they had a
bit of a shock. Out of 70 members 55 were 1st Aid trained &
30 of those O2 qualified, plus we had 3x 1st Aid Instructors!

We dont get asked if we have the required number of 1st Aiders
anymore.

:-)

Safety is something we push very, very hard when it comes to our annual review and justification for funding. They seem to like it! I don't think our figures are quite as impressive as yours in terms of "practitioners" but, especially with the new DL course, there have been a lot of O2 administrators around for the past few years. We also have written protocols for more adventurous diving (which includes ER and Trimix)

I still can't get excited about changing an o-ring, but I guess that's a decision for each club to make.

Iain