Weight Belts & Security Landyards

[Paul Wilson]

Our club has recently debated the use of 'safety landyards' on weight belts, which some club members use.

The general consensus seemed to be that as long as your buddy knew how to fully release the weight belt when necessary (in an emergency), these additional safety attachments were ok.

Does anyone have any statistical evidence relating to the number of incidents or fatalities relating to the accidental loss of a weightbelt leading to an uncontrolled ascent, versus the failure to fully release the weightbelt due to the addition of a security landyard (if that makes sense!!!)?

Basically, could it be safer to have a safety landyard (to prevent the accidental loss of a weightbelt)?

I welcome comments...

[Nigel Hewitt]

Basically, could it be safer to have a safety landyard (to prevent the accidental loss of a weightbelt)?

It is only anecdotal rather than statistical but my most scary dive to date was lashing a buddy to a wreck to refit a weight belt that was dismantling itself. At 40m with stops pending loosing it would have been very nasty.

I don't like easy to release belts except on trainees where you might need to pin them to the surface while they calm down. I dive integrated where ever possible and only drop the idea when RIB diving.

[Hannah Thompson]

'except on trainees where you might need to pin them to the surface'

ummm, interesting concept - wouldn't mind seeing that!!

H ;-)

[matt]

The general consensus seemed to be that as long as your buddy knew how to fully release the weight belt when necessary (in an emergency), these additional safety attachments were ok.

The stress levels that can be involved during an incident need to be experienced to be believed and thankfully only a small minority are ever placed in such extreme situations. I have seen people using P-Clips and dog clips to secure weightbelts and I very much doubt they could be released in an emergency.

Does anyone have any statistical evidence relating to the number of incidents or fatalities relating to the accidental loss of a weightbelt leading to an uncontrolled ascent, versus the failure to fully release the weightbelt due to the addition of a security landyard (if that makes sense!!!)?

Sorry I can't be that precise. I can tell you that people who lose weightbelts tend to survive while those that fail to drop them sometimes do not.

Basically, could it be safer to have a safety landyard (to prevent the accidental loss of a weightbelt)?

Could, is the operative word. Dropping a weight belt is the last resort. I think you need to be very careful about making your last ditch survival action a complicated one. There are some well designed and very badly designed weightbelts available, so a lanyard may be considered a fudge on a flawed design. Personally I think a rubber belt with a Navy pattern 2 stage quick release is safer than a lanyard.

I welcome comments...
Sorry I can't be clearer. I do not think it is a clear cut issue.

[edward haynes]

Paul

Download the last few Diving Incidents reports from the BSAC Web, see link.

I have looked at all the incidents with the word 'weight' and it appears you chances of survival on loosing a weithbelt are much better than not dumping one in an emergency.

I'm sure this thread will get strong opinions from both sides.

I have dived with individuals who uses this kit configuration. However, I don't do it myself and I've survived two losses of weight over the years. On both occasions I have been able to dump my air and swam down and re-fitted it.

Edward

[Chris Cherrington]

Basically, could it be safer to have a safety landyard (to prevent the accidental loss of a weightbelt)?


Yes.

I think Nigel H is correct. For an _experienced_ diver there are few reasons to dump the belt other than at the surface.

An accidental loss of belt could be very serious however.

Chris

[Ben Field]

> Basically, could it be safer to have a safety landyard (to
> prevent the accidental loss of a weightbelt)?

I have no statistical data but I have experience of this.

Coming off a 40mtr dive 4years ago my weight belt came off as a result of poor assembly due to changing the lead as I was carrying a pony at the time and hadn't on a previous dive.

I had 18minutes of stops due and only thanks to having long arms did a catch hold of the shot line which happened to be well stuck into the wreck. I was inverted and very buoyant- it was the single most scary thing that has ever happened to me diving.

I was lucky to have a quick witted and calm buddy to help me through the 18minutes of stops, some of which I spent upside-down due to the incredible difficulty to remain upright.

Since then I have NEVER dived with a single point release belt.

To start with I simply added a D ring to the belt and a double ended dog clip to make a secure connection between belt and stab jacket. Since I now dive twins it has ceased to be an issue for other reasons.

However I have since had to help numerous trainees and "competent" divers out of dangerous situations with loose belts or who've swam up to me holding their belt in one hand with a freaked out look on their faces!

I have no doubt that a second buckle or a connection to the divers buoyancy aid is a safety improvement.
I would be VERY surprised if with a well chosen system it could not be released almost as quickly as a sinple point of release system even if you where being assisted by a diver other than your buddy (ie- someone who hadn't been party to the pre-dive briefing)
Afetrall what REAL difference would it make between a belt that took 0.5 seconds to release and one that takes 1.5seconds?

All IMVHO of course.

BEN

[Iain Paul]

This is actually going off at a slight tangent, but if the loss of a standard weight belt is the issue, consider the quick release type originally manufactured by Sea Quest some years ago and now (I only discovered this a couple of weeks ago) available from Beaver.

Having used one myself for a good many years I can vouch for the fact that they are very secure and VERY unlikely to be lost accidentally but can be immediately jettisoned if required. The buckle arrangement also helps when handing into a RIB as you can release the belt and hold onto it with just the one hand reducing the chance of droping it.

They can be also be adjusted / tightened underwater without actually first undoing the belt, as you would have to with the standard type, and again you can do this with one hand.

The down side - an extra minute before the dive for a new buddy to see a demo & try the release. Cost as I discovered the other week is basically the same as for a standard belt, buckle & weight retainers.

Personally I would suggest this is a far more sensible and easier arrangement than adding security clips/lanyards. Given the advantages I am surprised that they seemed to dissapear from the market for so long and am glad they're back.

Iain

[Lindsey Doyle]

Does anyone have any statistical evidence relating to the number of incidents or fatalities relating to the accidental loss of a weightbelt leading to an uncontrolled ascent, versus the failure to fully release the weightbelt due to the addition of a security landyard (if that makes sense!!!)?

There's no evidence that divers who redescended and died COULD not release their weights, only that they DID not (is there?)...they may have been overweighted, may have been using integrated, safety lanyard or not....If Brian Cummings knows these details from the incident reports, he doesn't publish them.

Basically, could it be safer to have a safety landyard (to prevent the accidental loss of a weightbelt)?

I welcome comments...

Since several years ago when one of our trainees lost her belt at 18m, 10 min into dive & suffered a DCI, I have used an extra clip on my seaquest belt (I've known people lose those too!)....high visibility colour, 2 points of release, easy to reach but not too long/dangly, demonstrated to every buddy. I'd feel undressed without it now! ( I have seen other clips in use which are NOT so easy to release)
As I'm DO and an NQI, I do get beginners asking why I use it when they hear "quick release" in their lectures....I say it IS quick release, and they can modify their equipment if preferred when they're a qualified Sports Diver.
I do think it's good to have the weightbelt release taught & assessed in the DTP now (even if it is an organisational nightmare to demo then watch casualty release, weights needing refitting etc!)
Anyone else find this?

[david lisk]

Before I changed to using intregrated weights on a harness I used a weight belt with a lanyard, to prevent accidental loss. I used a quick release (yellow) squeeze clip on the end of the lanyard which clipped to the other end of the squeeze clip attached to my BC's D ring.

After using this for some time I added a dog bolt to the end of the lanyard as well. At the end of a dive off a RIB I would undo the sqeeze clip and then use the dog bolt to attach to one of the grab ropes on the side of the rib. With this attached I could then release my weight belt leaving it secured to the rib.

David

[janos]

I welcome comments...

As an aside, wandering slighly off-topic, but when teaching skills such as CBL etc in the pool, I've now started insisting that students wear a weightbelt, even if there is no weight on it, so that they get used to the idea dumping it when they hit the surface.

Laters,
Janos

[rob higgie]

:=I welcome comments...

As an aside, wandering slighly off-topic, but when teaching skills such as CBL etc in the pool, I've now started insisting that students wear a weightbelt, even if there is no weight on it, so that they get used to the idea dumping it when they hit the surface.

Laters,
Janos
Last year I was at Dorothoe the day after the last death at that quarry. A member of the under water police team made a very thought provoking comment to me. ?Why is that every single dead recreational diver that we recover still has their weight belt on. To dump your weight belt is the last act of self rescue.?
We all know the risks of an uncontrolled assent even with dumping all your air and fanning your arms and legs out to slow your assent down; there will be a serious risk of DCI and other diving related injuries. All of which are significantly more preferable than death by drowning.
This leads me to conclude, if the circumstance is awful, I would not hesitate to dump my weight belt and blow and go!
Kind Regards

Rob Higgie

[Andy Wade]

:=:=I welcome comments...
:=
:=As an aside, wandering slighly off-topic, but when teaching skills such as CBL etc in the pool, I've now started insisting that students wear a weightbelt, even if there is no weight on it, so that they get used to the idea dumping it when they hit the surface.
:=
:=Laters,
:= Janos
Last year I was at Dorothoe the day after the last death at that quarry. A member of the under water police team made a very thought provoking comment to me. ?Why is that every single dead recreational diver that we recover still has their weight belt on. To dump your weight belt is the last act of self rescue.?
We all know the risks of an uncontrolled assent even with dumping all your air and fanning your arms and legs out to slow your assent down; there will be a serious risk of DCI and other diving related injuries. All of which are significantly more preferable than death by drowning.
This leads me to conclude, if the circumstance is awful, I would not hesitate to dump my weight belt and blow and go!

As the old adage goes:
"Better a casualty on the surface than a dead diver on the bottom."

.

[Nigel Hewitt]

?Why is that every single dead recreational diver that we recover still has their weight belt on. To dump your weight belt is the last act of self rescue.?

This is a non question. The ones that dump their weighbelts surface (dead or alive) and don't get pulled out by a police team so everybody they pull out will have a weight belt.

100%

[Sarah Gauci Carlton]

:=?Why is that every single dead recreational diver that we recover still has their weight belt on. To dump your weight belt is the last act of self rescue.?

This is a non question. The ones that dump their weighbelts surface (dead or alive) and don't get pulled out by a police team so everybody they pull out will have a weight belt.

100%


Having been in a situation last Summer where I had to ditch the weight belt of a totally panicked diver at the surface who seemed to be intent on drowning, I am pretty relieved that his weight belt fell off obediently when pulled. He was not my buddy, and there was no time to faff around trying to release various dog clips and other non standard methods of release if they had been present. When things go badly wrong on a dive, the total chaos that follows panic may make it impossible to calmly remove various clips. You cannot assume that when things go wrong, you will be in a fit state to sort yourself out in a calm and logical manner.
You do have time to check your weightbelt is on correctly before getting in the water, so that would be the time to check that you can't lose it accidentally. Making it more difficult to ditch when you want to, doesn't make too much sense to me.

[Ben Field]

> When things go badly wrong on a dive, the total chaos that
> follows panic may make it impossible to calmly remove various > clips. You cannot assume that when things go wrong, you
> will be in a fit state to sort yourself out in a calm and
> logical manner.

I assume therefore- that in this case the BC could not be inflated first, no doubt that would have given them +ve buoyancy quicker and with greater control than a belt ditching?

Instantly releasing the belt of a "drowning" dry-suited diver could easily lead to an inversion and real problems so its not the first call of action- its the last.

I don't think anyone would advocate a difficult or long winded detachment method a second simple quick release giving enormous added security and reducing the margin of belt related error by 50%+ cannot be a bad thing- although it could potentially be implemented badly.

> You do have time to check your weightbelt is on correctly
> before getting in the water, so that would be the time to
> check that you can't lose it accidentally.

Not just then. You should check it yourself before the buddy check, again in the buddy check, a third time if possible after entering the water and a forth time when reaching the desired depth before leaving the shot/edge of beach etc.
If necessary (wetsuit/semidry) it should be periodically checked during the dive and again before leaving the bottom- even more so if a DSMB or free ascent is used.

Anything designated as "quick release" should not be a fit and forget item- doing so is almost asking for it to get lost IMO.

> Making it more difficult to ditch when you want to, doesn't > make too much sense to me.

I have seen several people who've added a second layer of protection to loosing their belt and none I've seen have been difficult to release quickly.

BEN

[matt]

Anything designated as "quick release" should not be a fit and forget item- doing so is almost asking for it to get lost IMO.

You should at least check that the quick release will work when teh full weight of the belt is hanging off it. This is when many Quick Releases don't!

> Making it more difficult to ditch when you want to, doesn't > make too much sense to me.

I have seen several people who've added a second layer of protection to loosing their belt and none I've seen have been difficult to release quickly.

I think Sarah is making the point that thankfully very few of us ever have to do a real test. It is amazing how simple things can become complicated in a stressful situation.