What Next 2

[TerryH]

After all the posts and emails + PM's from another site, I'm as confused as ever!!!!!!

I know the syllabus of each course, it's how it fits in with
the existing grades and the crossover I'm iterested in.

So let's start again.

Scenario 1
You are a BSAC Dive Leader and ADI with about 150 dives to your
name. The last 50 odd have been on UK wrecks off hardboats and
twin 12's. These are usually filled with Nitrox and most dives
edge into deco with max being about 15mins.

You now want to expand your diving a little more, either
slightly deeper (possibly more deco/weaker mixes) or stay
longer again with more deco (better with accelerated).

Scenario 2
Same as above, but BSAC Adv with 500-1000 dives.

So that's what you have to work with. Please forget Trimix.
We are talking about a small next step, not a major "lets take
out a second mortgage".

Willing to look at any agency, any course, anywhere. Just need
(accurate) objective info.

Any ideas?

TerryH

[johnkendall]

After all the posts and emails + PM's from another site, I'm as confused as ever!!!!!!

I know the syllabus of each course, it's how it fits in with
the existing grades and the crossover I'm iterested in.

So let's start again.

Scenario 1
You are a BSAC Dive Leader and ADI with about 150 dives to your
name. The last 50 odd have been on UK wrecks off hardboats and
twin 12's. These are usually filled with Nitrox and most dives
edge into deco with max being about 15mins.

You now want to expand your diving a little more, either
slightly deeper (possibly more deco/weaker mixes) or stay
longer again with more deco (better with accelerated).

Scenario 2
Same as above, but BSAC Adv with 500-1000 dives.

So that's what you have to work with. Please forget Trimix.
We are talking about a small next step, not a major "lets take
out a second mortgage".

Willing to look at any agency, any course, anywhere. Just need
(accurate) objective info.

Any ideas?

GUE Fundamentals.

This is the single most useful course I have ever done. I don't know anyone who has done it and come away without having learnt massive amounts about their own diving. For the record when I did the Fundamentals course I held the following Quals: BSAC AD/OWI, Padi Rescue, TDI Trimix, TDI Cavern.

I'd then suggest Rec-Triox or Tech1 to follow (I know you want to discount Trimix, but the skills to do deco bottles etc are in the course, and personally I believe in remembering the dive)

HTH

John

[paul_brown]

So that's what you have to work with. Please forget Trimix.
We are talking about a small next step, not a major "lets take
out a second mortgage".

Any ideas?

TerryH

Terry,

I am guessing that you want to do a bit deeper and do accelerated deco? If you definately don't want to do a trimix course then the ERD/Technical Diver type courses are really the next level. They will get you on to mixes up to 100% doing air/nitrox dives down to 50m-odd. I done the old IANTD Tech Nitrox course years ago with Phill Short and it was very useful - it really pushed me towards planning my deep dives properly, and it led me on to trimix a few years later perfectly.

I wouldn't really worry so much about the course as the instructor - get a good, experienced technical instructor to go on the course with who actually DOES this sort of diving. The thing about this deep diving lark is that anyone can talk a good game, but on the boat/in the water people easily get found out.

Hope thats of some help.

Paul

[matt]

Scenario 1
You are a BSAC Dive Leader and ADI with about 150 dives to your
name.

Scenario 2
Same as above, but BSAC Adv with 500-1000 dives.

Hi Terry
I am in COMPLETE agreement with Paul Brown.

Both your divers have at this stage reached the limit of recreational diving techniques and are looking at Extended Range Diving. The fundamental ERD techniques are as applicable to a 40minute bottom time at 30m as a 20minute bottom time at 75m. The difference is you need Helium to make the deeper dive bareable. With an ERD ticket in your wallet you can always jump onto Advanced Trimix in the future or do the Normoxic top up. Whichever I think it is more progressive to go learn the new techniques and practice on dives you are currently doing before venturing further. If you decide you need Helium later you can do the course later.

The instructor is everything. Technical training is not so different from recreational training. The different agency courses teach similar things in slightly different ways (despite what some poeple may claim). There are good instructors and bad instructors out there. The quality of the instructor will form your lasting impression of the course. Phil Short is one of the best and most experienced BTW and operates in your neighbourhood.

[TerryH]

GUE Fundamentals.

This is the single most useful course I have ever done. I don't know anyone who has done it and come away without having learnt massive amounts about their own diving. For the record when I did the Fundamentals course I held the following Quals: BSAC AD/OWI, Padi Rescue, TDI Trimix, TDI Cavern.

I'd then suggest Rec-Triox or Tech1 to follow (I know you want to discount Trimix, but the skills to do deco bottles etc are in the course, and personally I believe in remembering the dive)

HTH

John

Thanks for the info John, but the chances of us fitting in with
GUE doctrine is (shall we be polite and say) slim at best.

TerryH

[Chris Cherrington]

Hi Terry
I am in COMPLETE agreement with Paul Brown.

Both your divers have at this stage reached the limit of recreational diving techniques and are looking at Extended Range Diving. The fundamental ERD techniques are as applicable to a 40minute bottom time at 30m as a 20minute bottom time at 75m. The difference is you need Helium to make the deeper dive bareable. With an ERD ticket in your wallet you can always jump onto Advanced Trimix in the future or do the Normoxic top up. Whichever I think it is more progressive to go learn the new techniques and practice on dives you are currently doing before venturing further. If you decide you need Helium later you can do the course later.

The instructor is everything. Technical training is not so different from recreational training. The different agency courses teach similar things in slightly different ways (despite what some poeple may claim). There are good instructors and bad instructors out there. The quality of the instructor will form your lasting impression of the course. Phil Short is one of the best and most experienced BTW and operates in your neighbourhood.



I'll add my vote to that too, except I don't know Phil Short so no endorcment possible.

BTW If you have a club compressor helium is not that expensive so mix is not too dear if you blend it yourselves...

Chris

[janos]

I am about half-way between scenarios 1 and 2. I have no intention of doing trimix in the next couple of years, as there so much stuff still to see above 40m in the UK. I want to improve my in water skills, as I enjoy learning and perfecting techniques, but it is also going to make me more comfortable and safer in the water. There are similar people to me in the club.

The decision I went for is that to do an ERD course with Jack Ingle in May. There are about half a dozen of us in the club who are going on it. A couple more are going to do an extra day and turn it into a mix course, but I'm not interested in that.

Laters,
Janos

[Nigel Hewitt]

Any ideas?

Is the problem that they are just getting a bit jaded?

How about pushing a Nautical Archaeological Society wreck adoption on them? Send the keen ones on NAS courses so they really know what to do. The bossy ones get to organise, the photographers get to take pictures, the geeks get to play tape-measure, the computer nerds plot things and you all get to go diving.

[Mark Powell]

Any ideas?


OK, here's my suggestion. First of all find a good instructor. In order to do this you need to consider a few things.

- Do they do the kind of diving you are interested in
- Do they come from a simillar diving background
- How often do they dive/instruct
- How long have they been diving/instructing
- Get recommendations from people who have used good instructors
- Can they explain things in ways that make sense to you

At this level then a good instructor won't mind you 'interviewing' them to make sure they are the right instructor for you.

Once you find a good instructor then you can talk through your requirements with them and they can suggest the best way for you. There is a lot of leeway in the way courses can be put together so that with a good instructor I'm sure that you can get something that meets exactly what you need.

If you go down the TDI route then here are your options.

1. Add a TDI Deco Procedures course on to your BSAC Adv Nitrox. This will give you an accelerated deco qualification but your BSAC Advanced Nitrox will limit you to using 80%. This cert covers you to 45m.

2. Do a combined TDI Advanced Nitrox & Deco Procedures course. Obviously more expensive than a single course but in addition to accelerated deco it will give you up to 100%. This will also cover you to 45m

3. A TDI Extended Range course will give you 100% O2, accelerated deco and will cover you to 55m.

The main question you need to consider when choosing these option is do you want to use 100% or are you happy with 80%. Many people use 80% as their richest deco mix and never bother with 100%. If you are in this camp then option one is the best option, it is also the cheapest.

If you really want to be able to use 100% then Extended Range will give you everything you want. It will also give you a good lead into Trimix if you ever want to go down that route.


Hope that helps