air guzzling

[rich]

Anybody any serious fixes (that work) for air guzzlers. ?

Was paired with chap from the club at the weekend who managed to take a 15l down to 70 bar in 9 minutes ! . Apparantly he was comfortable at depth etc, and cant work out what the problem is.

Dive was to around 24-25m, so yes thats a BIG air consumption rate going on there.

- ive seen those breathing devices for sale and wondered if they help improve breathing rates etc.?

thanks in advance.

[steve anderson]

Devices are not going to help somebody who feels the need to breath this heavy and he certainly doesn't want his air restricted.

What it willcome down to is practice, comfort and confidence. Enough practice and his comfort and confidence levels will increase and his air consumption will decrease.

Some pointers to look out for -

Buoyancy control. Is he constantly adjusting his BC & drysuit? This will consume large quantities of air very quickly. Is he neutrally buoyant?

Finning - practice finning techniques in the pool - poor finning is very tiring and heavy on air.

Equipment configuration - try to encourage a trim and streamline kit setup, drag will increase air consumption as he will have to work harder to get anywhere.

For somebody going through this much air, a pony cylinder at the very least is an absolute requirement, plus a lot of practice on out of air drills and air checks will help.

practice, practice, practice

Steve

[Andy Wade]

Anybody any serious fixes (that work) for air guzzlers. ?

Was paired with chap from the club at the weekend who managed to take a 15l down to 70 bar in 9 minutes ! . Apparantly he was comfortable at depth etc, and cant work out what the problem is.

Dive was to around 24-25m, so yes thats a BIG air consumption rate going on there.

- ive seen those breathing devices for sale and wondered if they help improve breathing rates etc.?


The most common fault I've found is that no-one has bothered to explain to the diver in question that we 'hold' the breath in for longer than we normally would. Heavy breathers often take deep breaths and just breathe them straight out. If you think about it, you actually take a deep breath in and take a long time to exhale it, this is not 'holding' the breath, it's just not letting it escape too quickly.
That, and 'calming down' which doesn't appear to be a problem in this case.

You could also take a look at the 'Dive Instruct' page about heavy breathing.

(see link)

[David Walker]

practice, practice, practice

Yeah, what he said!

And make sure they're weighted properly. An extra few kg over what you need and you suddenly need a lot more air in the BC/drysuit, and especially if you're constantly adjusting it at depth that will use air quickly.

David

[steve parry]

You have had some good feedback on air consumption.
However, one point that was not menioned (albiet, it's
a sensitive one) is that of personal fitness.

I must admit I was a bit of a guzzler. For other reasons
I decided to loose the 3 stone overweight that I was.
This achieved by a balanced diet and exercise.

nett result- air consumption now well improved.
Was getting 60mins+ on a 12 ltr/200 bar when on holiday
in August and that involved multi-level stuff starting
at say 30m.

When I first started diving,I could only manage about
35 minutes on a 12 ltr @ 20 mins in Stoney.

[john bache]

It's probably mostly a confidence thing .... take him on lots more recreational quarry dives, perhaps do some realy shallow stuff so he can actualy get some water time clocked up even at his air consumption.

Failing that you could always point him down the rebreather route ... he could puff and blow like a set of blacksmiths bellows and still only get through the oxygen at his body's metablic rate.

That said, if most of the air is going through his buoyancy devices ... even a CCR wont help.

John.

[Ben Field]

Sounds awfully like skip breathing to me?

By all means hold it for a second or so but you should be strongly considering breathing out at this point...

If you breath heavily it for the usual reasons, nerves, fitness, bad dive practice, buoyancy or out of breath for some other reaons (surface swim, current etc.)

If he is bigger than you, smokes more, eats more fatty food, takes less exercise, does no physical labour at work (office job) etc he will almost certainly breath more.

Work on the diving- confidence, buoyancy etc before leveling any blame on his body. If he's an occasional diver then than might be it but if he intends to dive regularly or deeply then a diet and excercise regime might be in order?

At the end of the day, some of us just need more gas than others.

> The most common fault I've found is that no-one has bothered > to explain to the diver in question that we 'hold' the breath > in for longer than we normally would. Heavy breathers often
> take deep breaths and just breathe them straight out. If you > think about it, you actually take a deep breath in and take a > long time to exhale it, this is not 'holding' the breath,
> it's just not letting it escape too quickly.

[Andy Wade]

> The most common fault I've found is that no-one has bothered > to explain to the diver in question that we 'hold' the breath > in for longer than we normally would. Heavy breathers often
> take deep breaths and just breathe them straight out. If you > think about it, you actually take a deep breath in and take a > long time to exhale it, this is not 'holding' the breath,
> it's just not letting it escape too quickly.

Sounds awfully like skip breathing to me?

By all means hold it for a second or so but you should be strongly considering breathing out at this point...


Well that's your interpretation, skip breathing is holding the breath before exhaling. I'd strongly disagree with doing that.
I'm advocating this:
breeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaathe in
breeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaathe out.
With no holding the breath and no real time gap in between breaths, just longer breaths.
Using this method, you're actually taking a longer time to breathe, but are always breathing all the time.
It's actually a method used in relaxation and meditation.
Naturally if you're working hard then your breathing rate will increase anyway.
Most experienced divers will take an extended time to inhale and exhale without even realising it, it's just a matter of getting comfortable underwater, which is why experienced divers rarely hoover their air.
I can think of one lad in our branch who guzzled air until his very experienced buddy pointed it out to him that he was blowing his air out almost before he had finished inhaling it, without getting the full benefit of the breath.
Over the next few dives he started to concentrate more on his breathing rhythm and very soon after could last just as long as anyone else.
And as a bonus he found that lots more people were prepared to dive with him. (The poor lad was rapidly running out of dive buddies).

If you breath heavily it for the usual reasons, nerves, fitness, bad dive practice, buoyancy or out of breath for some other reaons (surface swim, current etc.)

If he is bigger than you, smokes more, eats more fatty food, takes less exercise, does no physical labour at work (office job) etc he will almost certainly breath more.

Work on the diving- confidence, buoyancy etc before leveling any blame on his body. If he's an occasional diver then than might be it but if he intends to dive regularly or deeply then a diet and excercise regime might be in order?

At the end of the day, some of us just need more gas than others.

Yes, there are lots of reasons for high gas usage, but poor breathing technique shouldn't be a reason for it.

[Matt]

Yes, there are lots of reasons for high gas usage, but poor breathing technique shouldn't be a reason for it.

Couldn't agree more.

Instructor says 'Dont hold your breath, breath normally'
Trainee hears 'Pant like a dog'

It does not help that most people never learn to breath normally anyhow. It seems the years I spent in a dismal attempt to learnt to play a saxaphone were not completely wasted.

I had some mates round to watch one of my diving vids the other day. Someone remarked at the pause between the bubbles from my reg, turns out to be about 8 to 10 seconds. I had never thought about it, I know my sac is 8 to 12l/min and that is considered quite good. I don't hold my breath, just breathe deep and long like my music teacher taught me.

I have helped lots of peole with unusually high breathing rates. Once you are over the nerves thing, it almost always comes down to buoyancy control. You can't start to teach good buoyancy until you have taught good breathing.

Regards
MattS
Smoking, a couple pounds overwheight and in a sedintary job.

[gordon archer]

Anybody any serious fixes (that work) for air guzzlers. ?

Was paired with chap from the club at the weekend who managed to take a 15l down to 70 bar in 9 minutes ! . Apparantly he was comfortable at depth etc, and cant work out what the problem is.

Dive was to around 24-25m, so yes thats a BIG air consumption rate going on there.

- ive seen those breathing devices for sale and wondered if they help improve breathing rates etc.?

thanks in advance.


Just thought I would expand this a bit from an ex heavy breather, try snorkling get the snorkling instructor to demostrate the correct methods of breathing & clearing plus finning, then practice, practice, practice in the pool.

You will find the results remarkable.

regards Gordon

[Andy Wade]

:=Anybody any serious fixes (that work) for air guzzlers. ?
:=
:=Was paired with chap from the club at the weekend who managed to take a 15l down to 70 bar in 9 minutes ! . Apparantly he was comfortable at depth etc, and cant work out what the problem is.
:=
:=Dive was to around 24-25m, so yes thats a BIG air consumption rate going on there.
:=
:=- ive seen those breathing devices for sale and wondered if they help improve breathing rates etc.?
:=
:=thanks in advance.
:=

Just thought I would expand this a bit from an ex heavy breather, try snorkling get the snorkling instructor to demostrate the correct methods of breathing & clearing plus finning, then practice, practice, practice in the pool.

You will find the results remarkable.


You've hit the nail on the head there Gordon.

We used to learn to snorkel before learning to dive, and it had a lot of skills included which are also relevant to diving.
But people don't get taught snorkelling more, so IMO they have more buoyancy problems, issues with their basic equipment and as has been said, a problem with breathing rates.
I'm pretty sure that these problems are more prevalent nowadays. I actually raised this issue on this forum some time ago but had no answers, so I let it lie.
People still had the problems we see in inexperienced divers, but had to learn the solutions to them before putting on dive kit. It was easier IMO.
A half decent snorkeller will have no choice but to learn to breathe correctly and efficiently. Someone who learns to dive without learning snorkelling skills first, will either have to learn them along the way, or have remedial training to correct problems which occur.



.

[Andy Wade]

:=Yes, there are lots of reasons for high gas usage, but poor breathing technique shouldn't be a reason for it.

Couldn't agree more.

Instructor says 'Dont hold your breath, breath normally'
Trainee hears 'Pant like a dog'

It does not help that most people never learn to breath normally anyhow. It seems the years I spent in a dismal attempt to learnt to play a saxaphone were not completely wasted.

I had some mates round to watch one of my diving vids the other day. Someone remarked at the pause between the bubbles from my reg, turns out to be about 8 to 10 seconds. I had never thought about it, I know my sac is 8 to 12l/min and that is considered quite good. I don't hold my breath, just breathe deep and long like my music teacher taught me.

I have helped lots of peole with unusually high breathing rates. Once you are over the nerves thing, it almost always comes down to buoyancy control. You can't start to teach good buoyancy until you have taught good breathing.

Regards
MattS
Smoking, a couple pounds overwheight and in a sedintary job.

We used to have a lad in our branch called Jim who was a bit of a local legend for air use, he dived with a single 7l with people on a single 15l ...he was just good at it I guess, he certainly didn't skip breathe or anything like that.
Every now and then in the pub after we'd been diving someone would stand up, and say "Stop everyone, Jim's about to breathe!" Jim would then smile, inhale really heavily, then exhale in a big long breath.
Well, we thought it was funny....
;-)



.

[David Walker]

But people don't get taught snorkelling more,

I take it the 5 minutes of duck diving in Ocean Diver doesn't count then? :O(

We're trying to encourage people to do Octopush more (whenever we have pool time free) and that certainly helps with improvement in the time they can stay underwater without breathing - whether that is helping with SAC I can't say - haven't noticed very much difference, but we haven't really been doing it regularly or for long enough to reeally see the effects.

David

[Andy Wade]

:=But people don't get taught snorkelling more,

I take it the 5 minutes of duck diving in Ocean Diver doesn't count then? :O(

Yeah, that'll do it.... ;-)

We're trying to encourage people to do Octopush more (whenever we have pool time free) and that certainly helps with improvement in the time they can stay underwater without breathing - whether that is helping with SAC I can't say - haven't noticed very much difference, but we haven't really been doing it regularly or for long enough to reeally see the effects.


Good idea. I'd have expected it to improve SAC because of the fitness angle, and anything which gets people confident in and under water and improves their general aerobic efficiency, can't be bad.
So there's just the broken finger bones and scratches all over your body to deal with.
I used to play octopush regularly until I decided I wanted to live longer...
;-)

[Ben Field]

>> I take it the 5 minutes of duck diving in Ocean Diver
>> doesn't count then? :O(
>
> Yeah, that'll do it.... ;-)

Probably not, remember your Ocean Diver trainees have to pass each and every lesson before proceeding IIRC, (no final assessment anymore)- therefore you can keep them snorkelling until you're happy with their skills.

As you rightly say, skipping skills at lesson 1 leads to issues later on.