Which BCD Clips and Lanyards?

[Matt Cook]

Hi Divers,

There seem to be a large array of methods and gadgets for attaching things to your BCD. As a novice diver I'm keen to learn how best to position and retain various bits of kit, like Octoput reg, gauges, hoses, torch, knife, etc..
I'm aware that BSAC may suggest positioning of kit, but am not aware that BSAC goes as far as 'standardising' on the use of certain methods and gadgets for attaching kit. Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe I should just hold on until I've done all my training?

So, at the risk of getting 101 different answers, I was wondering what you would recommend as a beginners arrangement of kit. For example;
- Quick release Octo clip (velcro, bungee?)
- Retractable lanyard for gauges
- Quick relase with coiled lanyard for torch
- Pouch and a bit of string for knife

Maybe some gadgets are universally used? ... maybe others should be avoided like the plague? Or maybe it's all a gimmic ... and just use bungee loops for everything.

Any comment will be most greatfully received.

[Woz]

My take is as follows but it works for me- others have different ways of doing things.

Gauge:
Down left side, across chest, clipped off to right shoulder D ring. Doesn't dangle and you can read it really easily. No lanyard needed. Never, ever use a console.

Knife:
Webbing sheath on waist, line cutter in webbing sheath just below left shoulder D ring. Never, ever on the lower leg.

Octo:
Bungeed 2m hose, over right shoulder, clipped off to left shoulder D ring.

Torch:
Boltsnap on the tail, tucked into snoopy loops on the right shoulder.

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[Roz]

There seem to be a large array of methods and gadgets for attaching things to your BCD. As a novice diver I'm keen to learn how best to position and retain various bits of kit, like Octoput reg, gauges, hoses, torch, knife, etc..Maybe I should just hold on until I've done all my training?
It's very good to see someone v. keen on learning to dive and asking a ton of questions. However, before you continue your postings on here along the lines of "which suit", "which regulator" etc, perhaps the following might help you. I wrote this in response to another new diver's questions;

I'm looking at buying all my own dive kit ... so am looking for an honest experienced view from you lot!

A good Dive Centre owner and their staff are in it for the long term, not a quick two minute sale where they will never see the diver again. Joe Public Diver seems to forget that that Dive Centre staff are not only divers, but also passionate kit monsters who vividly remember the excitement of buying their first regulator or thrill of ordering their first drysuit. Consequently the staff know how important it is to spend appropriate focused time and correctly counsel people looking to buy equipment.

The staff in dive centres have exposure to a large range of equipment from a number of manufacturers. They go on product days and launches, they get given the odd sample to play with, and it’s all so that they can understand the product better. They are out there using the kit in anger, and diving it on a very regular basis. They will ask you what kind of diving are you doing now, and what do you intend to do in the future, and will advise you accordingly as to what kind of kit will suit you. This means that you will be given good solid equipment advice by someone who is probably more experienced than your average diver.

To get the most out of your equipment you really need to have some in-water time and experience before you buy it. This way you will have a mental and physical reference which enables you to start forming ideas of what equipment you want, and the route you wish to follow. So beg, borrow, steal, hire kit before you buy and a good place to do this is your local dive club and your LDS.

So the very next thing I would say is 'have you joined a dive club yet, and if not why not?' You will have access to a pool to help keep your skills sweet, you will be able to beg, borrow, hire kit from other members to try it out to give you the physical reference you really need when buying equipment, you will be kit mentored, ie how to stow, bungee, fasten kit and you'll enhance your social life and so much more out of your diving. You should be asking the questions you are posting down your club or at your LDS. Then if you need further clarification, by all means jump back on here.

Having said all that I would certainly advocate that as a new diver you get the core kit of mask, boat fins, snorkel, boots and a timing device. This is your basic snorkelling equipment which will last you from now until kingdom come, provided you look after it carefully. It also means that when you start/continue learning, you have the basics which will also be fine for pool work and overseas blue water diving.

Remember diving is effectively a luxury sport where you want life support equipment that will always perform efficiently in a harsh environment. You need it to work properly and that costs real money to research, develop, test and manufacture. By demanding cheaper equipment you will get just that. There have been comments on the Forums about cheap weight belts falling to bits, cheap reels jamming and tangling, and I am aware of a couple of lovely masks that are sadly now just plain nasty. These two low profile masks fitted 95% of all faces, looked great and were a sensible price. Unfortunately because the public kept on demanding cheaper masks, production was switched to another factory, and now these products are inferior and sales have dropped right off. The silicone used is horribly hard and the frames crack. By demanding cheaper kit the product has been destroyed. Everyone loses.

So where would I buy all my equipment? From my LDS. The beauty about shopping in a LDS (Local Dive Shop), is that you get to feel, touch, try on and look at the equipment for real. If you ask for help the staff will walk you around the shop and show you the difference between a pool fin, a boat fin, a nature's wing fin, a spring strap, a traditional fin strap and a quick release strap. Absolutely nothing can replace the opportunity of feeling, touching, smelling, lifting, finding out just how heavy something is, and trying on new up-to-date equipment. It’s almost a rite of passage for a diver to walk into a dive shop with a pocketful of cash and buy your drysuit/regulator/bcd and thoroughly delight in the frisson, thrill and excitement of that hands-on experience. Buying on the web is just not the same thing. Pushing a button or two and waiting for a brown box to be delivered is quite pedestrian in comparison.

You’ve probably noticed that if you buy via the web you might get a more competitive price. This is because all you are paying for is for someone to take a piece of kit off a shelf, put it into a box and post it to you. There is no backup, no counselling, no advice, and no cup of tea. Then there are the hidden costs, such as if you buy a regulator online, it may not be put together so you could well end up paying your LDS to do this. Or the suit you bought doesn’t fit as you would have wished it to, so the cost of sending it back is down to you. When you buy from the web you don’t get that individual focused advice you need. There is no substitute to having an experienced professional standing next to you, seeing how the kit fits and knowing how it will perform in the water. When you buy in a LDS you gain education, information and benefit from the shop’s experience.

If it costs you a tad more in one shop (than another), but you get time spent with you and quality advice it's worth shopping there because you are more likely to get your equipment choice right. And you can go back to them for the odd free tweak, ie after you've had your reg serviced. You have just paid for true and proper customer service. If you get no advice and/or have very little/no time spent with you and the prices are cheaper, what have you really gained? Personally I can walk into a LDS where I get no service and make the right decision, but that's because I've got some experience under my belt. But where would I prefer and choose to shop? A place where I get a cup of tea, a natter about the latest shiny toy to hit the shelves, and guess what, I'm prepared to pay for this. So by all means ask for a discount, but if they don't give you one, and you've had good advice and service, consider yourself well looked after. (As a complete aside, I sometimes shop in Lidl because I like their Salami. But I only do this when I have the time to stand in a long queue and cash in my pocket. I avoid it like the plauge if I'm in a rush and a tear and just have my credit card on me. At the other end of the scale I've just discovered Waitrose and whilst I don't shop in there all the time, I now would consider shopping in there more often. Why? The quality of the goods and also the quality of the staff. They are astonishingly polite and so genuinely helpful that it makes my supermarket shopping experience a treat. Something to enjoy not endure. It is worth the extra dosh? Absolutely).

So now more than ever you need to support your LDS. (LDS equipment sales are one revenue source that helps to pay for rates, electricity, insurance, salaries, etc). Otherwise, give it a few years and we will be returning to the bad old days of a few big regional dive centres and doing round trips of 100 miles to get airfills. And if you've got a really good LDS, as a new diver looking for proper kit advice, you'll be very well served.

In summary, go and find a dive club in your local area and join it and start your training. Talk to the divers and pick their brains about what kit they dive and why. Try some out in the pool and discover what you like (and of equal importance, what you don't like), devour any diving magazine, publication, book and manual you can lay your sticky paws on and take it from there. We're here to help and support your diving on this forum, but we are a tad jaded of answering, "what's best? A Scubapro BCD or an Aqualung one?". Once you get diving, you'll understand it's an impossible question to answer because we all individuals and what suits one diver, doesn't necessarily suit another.

HTH.

[SUNDODGER]

Gauges - always use a console! Then everything you need is in one place! Down LHS and plastic clipped to chest strap. Plastic? Yep, so it will break easy IF required, and cheap.
Knife (s) - largish jobby on RH thigh, though secured to belt, small and sharp ty-wrapped to BCD hose and surgical scissors in BCD pocket. A knife is crap for cutting monofilament net or copious amounts of fishing line.
Torch - I always have a small LED torch in the BCD pocket. If 'serious' diving or conditions demand it then a large lantern.
Octo - Flourescent green/yellow reg, on 1.5m hose, covered with flourescent green/yellow net, secured in a flourescent green/yellow 'scum-ball'. All on my LHS, with scum-ball on a lower D ring.
Spare mask? Yep, in BCD pocket.
Snorkel? Yep, (you guessed) BCD pocket.

AVOID - any karabiners that do not have screw gates, as lines can get in there when you don't want, need or know about them.

That'll do for now, I'm getting a headache!

[Hickdive]

An LDS will often sell you what it has in stock and what is the dealer for. Where the LDS is fortunate enough to be the dealer for multiple brands they may sell you whichever provides them with the greatest mark up.

LDS staff are often freshly minted 'professional' instructors or divemasters often having qualified via the very LDS they are now working in. They will therefore have often only been exposed to the LDS' limited range of rental and school equipment.

Over on Scubaboard there was recently a hilarious thread which included some sage advice from a diver who had been sold a 'top-of-the-range' mask by his LDS plus the special liquid sealant necessary for it to fit without leaking.:rolleyes:

That's not to say all LDS are like that one but their opinions should always be viewed in the light of the fact it would be most unusual for them to recommend a product they don't stock and that might actually be the product that suits you. In short, don't be surprised if you walk into an LDS that has Scubabpro (or whatever other brand) regulators all over the shelves, ask their advice, and end up buying a Scubapro regulator.

The Internet is an extremely powerful tool for the diver, virtually every piece of equipment out there will have a review, you just have to Google it. Just bear in mind that, with the exception of things such as ANSTI tests (i.e. the test to determine how hard a regulator is to breathe from), they are all subjective. The difference is that most internet contributors don't have a profit to make.

I'll even suggest the Diver magazine tests over on Divernet, particularly the group tests. Although I may disagree with their chief reviewer on many other things, the actual reviews are consistent and I've never known him recommend a piece of 'dangerous' equipment.

Once you've done your basic internet research then start asking questions on the forums and getting prices from the internet retailers. Once you've done the research then see if your LDS carries the item. Then decide whether the convenience of just nipping back to the shop if there's a problem offsets the price difference with the online retailers.

Don't forget too that many internet retailers are also LDS. It doesn't take a lot of internet research to work out which ones are good and which ones are notorious. The big internet names with access to multiple brands are more likely to give you unbiased advice than a genuinely local but one-brand shop near you. If you're not sure, give them a telephone call and see what kind of help and advice they give you over the phone.

You might get a mug of tea from your LDS, just make sure they're not getting a mug, i.e. you, back in return.

[Matt Cook]

Thanks for the answers everyone ... I'll read and digest.

I see references to hoses crossing over the body and clipped to opposite sides from their first-stage exit ... can't this compromise your BCD 'releases' in an emergency? ... or is this the least of your problems if you are in an emergency?

Roz: A few comments if I may;
(1) I completely get the LDS approach. As with any hobby, pass-time, or occupation, supporting your local businesses is important. My first purchase was a Cressi mask from my LDS ... and the salesman couldn't resist explaining everything about them to me (even down to rubbing in the toothpaste), which was nice.
(2) This said, maybe LDS don't/can't offer the sheer range that is available on the t'intweb ... so maybe not everyone shopping on the web is purely after a bargin?
(3) Did a Try Dive at my local BSAC club (#12) and joined up the following week. Unfotunately they only meet once a week ... and my head is bursting with questions. Plus, I thought I'd also joined one big club ... BSAC. I know repeat questions can be a pain to forum regulars, and searching is good etiquite ... but at some point it is quicker and easier to give up searching and just ask.
(4) For example, the little things like clips and stuff don't seem to get discussed much ... at least not in specific discussion topics. I have some club kit on loan for my training (which is great), so I can easily resist the temptation to shop for big items. The little bits seem quite influential over how 'sorted' your diving experience can be ... and so something I can start building up fairly early. However, I'd hate for the wrong choices to give me bad habits.

Anyhow, I digress from the original topic. More comments please.

[Woz]

Buddy check- BAR. The R bit covers how you get me out of my kit. The HP hose follows the suit hose so is dead easy to remember. If you need to get me out of my kit that fast, there is a cutter permanently on it- just chop me out. I won't harass you for a fiver's worth of webbing.

Best idea is to go and have a chat with someone. If you're East Midlands, I'd be happy to show you round the tons of dive kit in my garage and you can see and try a load of different ways of doing things. For my teaching kit, AS and SPG is clipped off on the left hip.

And consoles are crap. Try an ascent when you have a reel in one hand, the handle in the other then you need a third to hold the console... that's why I have compass and computers on my wrists. Ditch the standard straps and get DSS bungee mounts- they're brilliant and on every diver's Xmas list in our club since they saw mine. Plus the console doesn't get dragged along in the silt/rocks/wreck/stood on in the boat. Knives should be well tucked away as when squirrelling they have a nasty habit of stopping you getting through that hole. Best knife you can get is a Greenriver and I'd get the 7cm one. Cuts anything including monofilament and melted polyprop round a boat prop. You should have something to cut with accessible with both hands. Surgical scissors? Waste of time. The centre pin rusts and if you cut anything thicker than string the blades separate and the pin pings off (bitter experience talking here).

[bythesea]

secured in a flourescent green/yellow 'scum-ball'.

Worst invention ever... I was diving on Saturday, my buddy had his pony reg in a scum ball, it was seeping a bit so he asked me to look at it, 15M below the waves, I gave it a tug to release it and the ball snapped off the ring holding it to his BC leaving the ball in place over the mouth piece..... good job it wasn't needed in any kind if emergency eh?

BTW, the ball was pretty much new so not degraded, it was a bit inflexible however given the near zero air temp and 8 degree water temp.

Anything else I have to add to this thread has been comprehensively covered by Woz, follow his post and you wont go far wrong.

[Matt Cook]

Thanks Everyone ... real interesting stuff.

What about the Octoquick? ... lots of people seem to like them.
How about gauges on a retractable lanyard? ... seems useful, but could be a tangle-prone gimmic.

Woz: Thanks for the kind offer, but I think I should ask around my Club first. Potteries Divers (BSAC12) so not too far away, maybe our paths may cross at some poiny anyway.

Any more buckle, clips, pocket, lanyard tips gratefully received.

[SUNDODGER]

Worst invention ever... I was diving on Saturday, my buddy had his pony reg in a scum ball, it was seeping a bit so he asked me to look at it, 15M below the waves, I gave it a tug to release it and the ball snapped off the ring holding it to his BC leaving the ball in place over the mouth piece..... good job it wasn't needed in any kind if emergency eh?

BTW, the ball was pretty much new so not degraded, it was a bit inflexible however given the near zero air temp and 8 degree water temp.

Mmmm, interesting. I have had my scum-ball for far more years than I need to remember. It was bought (as I recall) in the good old USofA, so maybe it was an early, or properly made one.

Or maybe the one you had issues with was a cheaper copy or was pulled too vigorously, or was a bit brittle in the cold. No answer, still happy with mine though. It DOES keep the cr4p out the reg, which is/was one of the original selling points.

[Matt Cook]

... or maybe the Scubapro octo clip with the bung that stops crud entering?

[bythesea]

or was a bit brittle in the cold.

That is my guess, as for pulling to hard emergency releases should be able to cope with that really...

[bythesea]

... or maybe the Scubapro octo clip with the bung that stops crud entering?

The thing with quick releases is you don't want them over complicated. Most of what you can buy is just kit companies trying to increase turnover and profit, keep is as simple as you can.

If you want to keep it crud free don't allow it to dangle...

[SUNDODGER]

Y'see, this is what is so great and diverse about our sport! I love my console - Woz hates his! I can buy surgical scissors dirt cheap, and yes, the pin does corrode. But being inventive, I replaced it with a very small nut and bolt - simples! Also keeps the blades together!

In fact, just an hour ago was phoned up by a mate and asked to go and get a load of netting off a couple of our local sites laid from an illegal fishing boat (What, illegal fishing boat in Spain? Never.)

So, taking lots of care, I'll be using my modded scissors in anger AGAIN!!

And ensuring that all my dangly bits (OOOOH Matron!) are well secured.

[Andy Mason]

Hi Matt,

This is what I use.

Occy: around my neck on a bungee necklace. Made from a length of elastic chord tied into a loop with two fisherman's knot's to allow quick release of my reg - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIFyUJo98E4

Pressure Gauge: off left side of 1st stage, under (behind) left arm clipped to left hip D-ring with stainless steel bolt snap swivel (attached with string so I can cut it if necessary). My computer is on my right wrist.

Torch: Backup torch clipped to right shoulder D-ring and under bungee to keep it tucked away.

Knife: Waist-mounted in front, on waist belt, in open scabbard, near the center of my body, for easy access.

I hope this is helpful.

Andy

[PeteM]

What about the Octoquick? ... lots of people seem to like them.

I've used them and they are OK (but get the Lump Brothers one as it is identical and normally cheaper). They do not suffer from the scuzball problems of ripping the mouth piece off (seen it happen a few times) and occasionally causing freeflows as you jump in. Frankly you have to worry about something that will be used in an emergency that will break when it "was pulled too vigorously". They can however slide up the hose meaning the reg hangs down and is more prone to getting muck in it.

How about gauges on a retractable lanyard? ... seems useful, but could be a tangle-prone gimmic.

Tangle and jam prone gimmick. Thing about diving you will learn is that if there is a chance something can get tangled it will sooner or later. So avoid.

or maybe the Scubapro octo clip with the bung that stops crud entering

No, no no! When you need an octopus you need an octopus NOW. Any complication is a complication too much. You need to be able to grab it, pull and it is ready for use first time every time.

Why not just keep the reg out of the crud? In 15 years of diving I have never filled a reg with crud - and that includes squeezing through gaps in wrecks that have required unclipping stage cylinders and getting if very tight corners for photo's

Any more buckle, clips, pocket, lanyard tips gratefully received

I pretty much agree with woz with a couple of exceptions.

1) Hose routing uses a style which I am not going to mention as I am bored with discussing it
2) I put the gauge on the left shoulder D ring because I prefer it there. I am totally with Woz on the "if you need me out of the harness cut me out", which is why
3) I have a pair of trauma sheers on my waist band. These rust though so silicon grease them when you get them and throw them away once a year. Buy them on line and they cost about £2.50 each

Clips: Avoid karabiners even the screw gate ones. The ungated ones can catch line, the screw gates can jam. I use P clips, these do take a bit of getting used to but when you use them a bit they are easy one handed clip on or off.

Pockets: On BCD bit of a waste of time. Velcro comes undone and zips jam and they are not in an ideal place. Get cargo pockets fitted to your drysuit

[MattS]

What about the Octoquick? ... lots of people seem to like them.I have yet to find a plastic clip that worked better than a bit of bungee or surgical tubing. At this early stage of training I would advise staying out of the internet controversy surrounding hose routing.

A figure eight of surgical tubing around the octo mouthpiece, secured with a knot or cable tie, so the octo is held firmly but can still be pulled away. Attach to suitable place on BCD to meet your instructors approval. My personal preference is the right shoulder strap on the BCD, with the hose under the left arm. The reg hangs at about eye level and can be located by touch, by running your thumb down your body and following the hose up to the reg.

You can do something similar with a contents gauge. Make a loop of bungee or surgical tube, can pass the gauge through and tie off to the left hand side of the BCD waist or sternum strap. You should be able to see the gauge by glancing down.

How about gauges on a retractable lanyard? ... seems useful, but could be a tangle-prone gimmic.Tangle prone gimmick. The springs gum up, leaving a couple meters of slack line floating around. As Pete says diver + line + slack = a tangled mess.

In fact, be wary of any plastic gadgets. They may work in the dive shop abd be fine for diving a couple times a year, but many fall apart after a few dives in typical UK conditions.

Any more buckle, clips, pocket, lanyard tips gratefully received.A couple meters of bungee, some surgical tube, a few cable ties and some stainless double end P-Clips, will stow just about anything better than the mass manufactured equivalents. The P-Clips look a bit dear, but they last forever.

The only exception I make is new divers with expensive torches. Buy that Gucci coiled lanyard and use it until you are certain you are beyond the dropping things stage. Not dropping things underwater seems to be a knack that can take a couple years to acquire. I once knew a Sport diver go through 3 torches at £100+ a pop, until they finally relented and followed my advice to ignore the internet techies and by the £15 lanyard. That was an extreme case but shiny new torches being left on the seabed is one of those things that seems to be more common than it should be.

Get yourself a net 'goody bag' to keep all your bits and pieces together in. Possibly the best £5 to £10 you will spend on dive kit.

[Woz]

Yep those retractor things are pants. Steer well clear. Try to keep it dead simple- Matt has a good point with the surgical tubing- it's simple and effective.

I wouldn't use a caribener type clip as they have a nasty habit of picking up string. And the screw gates jam up. Piston clips are simple and with a drop of oil down the spring, smooth and trouble free.

When you have a bungee mount for your computer, you simply clip the torch clip onto the bungee so if you drop it, the thing just dangles from your wrist. Dead simple.

[TerryH]

KISS

Ok nowt wrong with a console as long as they are stowed properly, which in
the main they are not. It's a heavy lump often clipped off at the start of the
dive by the guage, but with excessive hose length end up dangling, even if
it's still attached. So save the hassle and get the right length, so that it
sticks under your left shoulder strap. Now if you look down there is you
guage and you dont even need a clip :D

Better still the occi can be clipped on the left ready to present, right way
at its full extension and not ever be mixed up or confused with a HP hose.

Scumballs etc. are pants and suffer from two issues. First where on earth
is the occi positioned so that you get it full of crud that need such a system,
dredging maybe :rolleyes:
Second it's ironic that those who champion such systems are rarely (if ever)
the ones that actually get to use them. It's easy when you know how, but
tell that to an OOG diver who will rip off the mouthpiece or struggle to get the
thing off.

Instead just use a bog standard plastic clip. The reason these usually dont
work well is they allow the hose to move and it dangles. So add a small cable
tie as a stop to the hose next to the second stage. Now you have a clamp
point and it wont move. As its plastic who cares if it breaks or the OOG diver
rips it off, strong enough to hold, weak enough to break when needed.

I'm assuming at this level that a canister/umbilical torch isnt on the menu, so
where to stick that torch. Again assuming a BC, you have pull down tabs with
a handy D-ring on the end. So add a piston on the torch body and
a lanyard. Thread the lanyard through the D-ring of the shoulder pull tab.
You've now got enough slack to extend the torch at arms length.
When stowed or jumping in use the piston clip to keep it out the way
and stop it whacking you in the face.

So in all that lot you've got one plastic clip, one piston clip and a lanyard.
Very simple solutions just adapting or tweaking whats already there.

The system we have are fine, they just dont get used properly and you
end up with a bad rep and more solutions to deal with them.

[MikeTonge]

Or maybe the one you had issues with was a cheaper copy or was pulled too vigorously, or was a bit brittle in the cold. No answer, still happy with mine though. It DOES keep the cr4p out the reg, which is/was one of the original selling points.

Yep and in an emergency your not going to be pulling it vigorously???

[Matt Cook]

OK folks ... I get the message ... keep it simple.

I'll try to resist the temptation of buying those little gadgets that will probably end up sitting in a drawer ... and work out a few simple loops and clips. However, I may go for the Lump Brothers octo quick release ... I don't fancy the idea of my buddy grabbing my main reg 'cause he/she knows my octo can't be simply yanked free.

Thanks everyone ... some great comments ... very helpful.

Regards ... Matt

[PeteM]

I don't fancy the idea of my buddy grabbing my main reg 'cause he/she knows my octo can't be simply yanked free.

But that is something that you should be aware can happen and be comfortable dealing with.

People only find out they have no gas left when they breath in, if they are some way from you then the swim to you is going to be unpleasant, when they get to you they may not be very polite/controlled/orthodox in getting a working gas source. Being on the point of drowning does that to you.

[bootneck]

The lumb brothers oct clip is nice and easy to use and is a good example of the kiss principle

[Plio]

Hi Matt,
There are a lot of clips, tags, cords etc. out there. Stick with the training, watch what your instructors do, what they use and how they use it.
Experiance will teach you what you need to know just like it taught them. Remember though, what suites one diver may not suite another, so look, listen and learn, then make an educated decision, hopefully it won't cost you to much.
Keep blowing bubbles.