View Full Version : equipment
jimmyd1982
04-06-2003, 22:40
Hi all this is my first post here and im calling to every one out there to give me your opinion if you would be so kind. I have recently joined a club and im to start the basic training soon, I have spent about 3 months reading up about diving and have decided that eventually I want to be able to dive as deep as I can and be a tech diver i have begun to look at gear and have the finances to start me off but what would you suggest? I have been looking at a Buddy ranger td a 12.2 faber cylinder an Apeks ATX40 reg and ATX40octo with a Navcon 3 gauge console. BUT would the ranger td be sufficient enough to lift me and a twin set and pony and what ever other equipment i may need when im qualified or should i get a wing? could you give me some suggestions and advice of what to do and weather or not to buy them now and get used to using them in the pool first? And if you could suggest some brands preferably with integrated weights and where to get them from
Thanks. Jim!
andy botten
05-06-2003, 00:44
My advice is take it slowly. Don't run before you can walk!
Look at the classified ads!
Loads of people spend loads of money then give up.
We have had this a lot in our club.
All the most expensive gear - next year they don't turn up.
Moreover, we have one diver who was most upset with me because I held his training back. "I wan't to be Dive leader this time next year!"
In the pool he was fine and also for his first few OW dives.
He realised what I had been on about when he cocked-up on a few occasions over quite basic things.
Get to know your kit a piece at a time.
For example, don't get a pony until you are comfortable as a Sports diver.
Each time you add kit you need to reacquaint yourself with where things are.
This was the problem with the aforementioned trainee - a Christmas tree; and no idea how things worked or where they were.
I have made him go back to basics, and now even he sees the benefit of this.
HTH
Don't be put off & save diving
> I have ... decided that eventually I want to be able to dive
> as deep as I can and be a tech diver
You wouldn't believe how many alarm bells that statement sets off...
Why do you want to go deep? There are a variety of good reasons for deep diving, but if depth is an end in itself, the only thing that will satisfy is more depth. See if you can guess where that ends...
As for being a "tech diver" - what's one of those, then? I've heard the term bandied around - I've been described as such myself. But I couldn't tell you what it means. Is there a badge for it? Does it get me a discount on my car insurance?
> i have begun to look at gear and have the finances to start
> me off but what would you suggest?
Learning to dive. Look for solutions to problems you come across, not medals to hang round your neck.
> I have been looking at a Buddy ranger td a 12.2 faber
> cylinder an Apeks ATX40 reg and ATX40octo with a Navcon 3
> gauge console.
Why? What has attracted you to that kit choice?
Incidentally, I don't like any of that kit. I have two of the dumpy Faber 12.2 cylinders, but they've not been in the water for many years now.
> BUT would the ranger td be sufficient enough to lift me and a
> twin set and pony
Why are you going to have a twinset and a pony?
> and what ever other equipment i may need when im qualified or
> should i get a wing?
Why don't you hold off buying until you have the answers to these questions for yourself? Things like lift capability - that's in entry-level training.
> could you give me some suggestions and advice of what to do
My advice - wait until you've done your course. Then you'll have a much better idea of what you like, what you need, what is marketing tripe.
> and weather or not to buy them now
No.
> and get used to using them in the pool first?
You should do that - but concentrate on one thing at a time. Learn to dive first - then start thinking about what to buy.
> And if you could suggest some brands preferably with
> integrated weights and where to get them from
No, I can't do that. I could never suggest integrated weights, because I don't like them. If you want suggestions of favourite brands, you'll get every single manufacturer listed - they all sell gear to people that like it; that's how they stay in business.
Vic.
Steve Walker
05-06-2003, 11:28
You may find the debate on Newbies and wings to be of interest re choice of BCD.
As the others have said, take it slowly, one of BSAC's slogans is "Deeper with Experience" which is sound logic. Diving has many potential dangers, thorough training will prepare you to deal with these in a safe manner, but it's not worth rushing it, life is short enough as it is and you're a long time dead!
Sorry if that sounds like scaremongering but I prefer to make students aware as early as possible that UK diving isn't like those pictures of happy campers doing high-fives on a sunlit beach, (see any popular diving magazine for the images I've described): UK diving is cold, visibility can be poor and task-loading can be considerably higher than those warm pater piccies, all of which add up to a challenging environment which needs to be treated with the proper respect or it'll bite back.
There's more to diving deep than you might imagine is involved during your early stages of learning, and you may very well find that once you start diving your ideas change rapidly! Books are good but I think everyone here will tell you that no amount of reading will prepare you for the actual experiences of deeper diving.
As a point of reference, I've been diving about 6 years and so far, around 40m is my max depth and I don't really feel I want to go below 45 until I've done my trimix course (my personal choice, I know others will disagree) even though BSAC guidelines allow me to go to 50m on air.
Sound choice of regs BTW, don't think too many folk will give you a "thumbs down" on those, scrap the console idea though, if you want to start thinking like a tekkie, think instruments on wrists.
HTH and feel free to get in amongst it and ask more questions
Cheers
Steve
(BSAC OWI)
You want an honest answer? Wait.
Buy a mask, maybe a cheap snorkel, a pair of boots (one with a
zip) and some fins (Mares 3 are good). Now you have enough kit
to get you started in the pool and get you through all basic
training.
When you go open water your club will provide you with a BC,
reg & weightbelt and you will more than likely have to
hire/borrow a suit.
Five dives later and you are an Ocean Diver. Back to the Pool.
More sessions with your MFS and again your off for another OW
trip and another 5 dives.
So you have 10 dives (at least) in your logbook and are now an
independent diver.
Now is the time to start thinking about kit.
Take a look in the back of Diver & Dive mags. Notice an awful
lot of complete sets of new kit for sale. This lot thought they
were set for UK diving as well. By the end of their training
they werent so sure!
I know it's difficult with all those goodies layed out in the
dive shop, but your choices of kit will change with more
experience.
So, get mask, fins, snorkel, boots and wait!
TerryH
Hi all this is my first post here and im calling to every one out there to give me your opinion if you would be so kind. I have recently joined a club and im to start the basic training soon, I have spent about 3 months reading up about diving and have decided that eventually I want to be able to dive as deep as I can and be a tech diver i have begun to look at gear and have the finances to start me off but what would you suggest? I have been looking at a Buddy ranger td a 12.2 faber cylinder an Apeks ATX40 reg and ATX40octo with a Navcon 3 gauge console. BUT would the ranger td be sufficient enough to lift me and a twin set and pony and what ever other equipment i may need when im qualified or should i get a wing? could you give me some suggestions and advice of what to do and weather or not to buy them now and get used to using them in the pool first? And if you could suggest some brands preferably with integrated weights and where to get them from
Thanks. Jim!
I won't bother repeating the message to wait because if you have not got the message now you won't get it :-)
I will however expand on it, as Terry has said get mask, fins, boots and the cheapest snorkel you can find now, then before you start buying other kit try as much different kit as you can - nothing beats try kit for real in the water, you may like the reg in the shop but you are not using it in the shop your using it in water.
Listen to everyone, assess the advice based on who the person is and how much money they are going to make if you follow the advice then make up your own mind
Pete
jimmyd1982
05-06-2003, 13:45
Ok sorry i want eventually to be limitless with whatdepth cango down to see but as i need the training and maybe years of experiance before i look at going deep im in no rush whatsoever time is on my side im not going to go out buy load of gear and jump in i might as well play marbles on the motorway if i was to do that i was just informing people of my intentions and asking would it be ecinomical to get the gear that will last
> I have ... decided that eventually I want to be able to dive
> as deep as I can and be a tech diver
You wouldn't believe how many alarm bells that statement sets off...
Why do you want to go deep? There are a variety of good reasons for deep diving, but if depth is an end in itself, the only thing that will satisfy is more depth. See if you can guess where that ends...
As for being a "tech diver" - what's one of those, then? I've heard the term bandied around - I've been described as such myself. But I couldn't tell you what it means. Is there a badge for it? Does it get me a discount on my car insurance?
> i have begun to look at gear and have the finances to start
> me off but what would you suggest?
Learning to dive. Look for solutions to problems you come across, not medals to hang round your neck.
> I have been looking at a Buddy ranger td a 12.2 faber
> cylinder an Apeks ATX40 reg and ATX40octo with a Navcon 3
> gauge console.
Why? What has attracted you to that kit choice?
Incidentally, I don't like any of that kit. I have two of the dumpy Faber 12.2 cylinders, but they've not been in the water for many years now.
> BUT would the ranger td be sufficient enough to lift me and a
> twin set and pony
Why are you going to have a twinset and a pony?
> and what ever other equipment i may need when im qualified or
> should i get a wing?
Why don't you hold off buying until you have the answers to these questions for yourself? Things like lift capability - that's in entry-level training.
> could you give me some suggestions and advice of what to do
My advice - wait until you've done your course. Then you'll have a much better idea of what you like, what you need, what is marketing tripe.
> and weather or not to buy them now
No.
> and get used to using them in the pool first?
You should do that - but concentrate on one thing at a time. Learn to dive first - then start thinking about what to buy.
> And if you could suggest some brands preferably with
> integrated weights and where to get them from
No, I can't do that. I could never suggest integrated weights, because I don't like them. If you want suggestions of favourite brands, you'll get every single manufacturer listed - they all sell gear to people that like it; that's how they stay in business.
Vic.
jimmyd1982
05-06-2003, 13:46
Ok sorry i want eventually to be limitless with whatdepth cango down to see but as i need the training and maybe years of experiance before i look at going deep im in no rush whatsoever time is on my side im not going to go out buy load of gear and jump in i might as well play marbles on the motorway if i was to do that i was just informing people of my intentions and asking would it be ecinomical to get the gear that will last
> I have ... decided that eventually I want to be able to dive
> as deep as I can and be a tech diver
You wouldn't believe how many alarm bells that statement sets off...
Why do you want to go deep? There are a variety of good reasons for deep diving, but if depth is an end in itself, the only thing that will satisfy is more depth. See if you can guess where that ends...
As for being a "tech diver" - what's one of those, then? I've heard the term bandied around - I've been described as such myself. But I couldn't tell you what it means. Is there a badge for it? Does it get me a discount on my car insurance?
> i have begun to look at gear and have the finances to start
> me off but what would you suggest?
Learning to dive. Look for solutions to problems you come across, not medals to hang round your neck.
> I have been looking at a Buddy ranger td a 12.2 faber
> cylinder an Apeks ATX40 reg and ATX40octo with a Navcon 3
> gauge console.
Why? What has attracted you to that kit choice?
Incidentally, I don't like any of that kit. I have two of the dumpy Faber 12.2 cylinders, but they've not been in the water for many years now.
> BUT would the ranger td be sufficient enough to lift me and a
> twin set and pony
Why are you going to have a twinset and a pony?
> and what ever other equipment i may need when im qualified or
> should i get a wing?
Why don't you hold off buying until you have the answers to these questions for yourself? Things like lift capability - that's in entry-level training.
> could you give me some suggestions and advice of what to do
My advice - wait until you've done your course. Then you'll have a much better idea of what you like, what you need, what is marketing tripe.
> and weather or not to buy them now
No.
> and get used to using them in the pool first?
You should do that - but concentrate on one thing at a time. Learn to dive first - then start thinking about what to buy.
> And if you could suggest some brands preferably with
> integrated weights and where to get them from
No, I can't do that. I could never suggest integrated weights, because I don't like them. If you want suggestions of favourite brands, you'll get every single manufacturer listed - they all sell gear to people that like it; that's how they stay in business.
Vic.
Steve Walker
05-06-2003, 14:24
Ok sorry i want eventually to be limitless with whatdepth cango down to see but as i need the training and maybe years of experiance before i look at going deep im in no rush whatsoever time is on my side im not going to go out buy load of gear and jump in i might as well play marbles on the motorway if i was to do that i was just informing people of my intentions and asking would it be ecinomical to get the gear that will last
As it happens, Dominic has been putting some time and effort into a Newbies Kit Guide (see link) I thought he might have posted it himself by now. It's still pretty new as I think he only started it last week and at the mo it doesn't have piccies but it's a good starting point
HTH
Steve
nick kay
06-06-2003, 15:11
However...
When you buy:
a Reg, go for one that can be used with Nitrox
Ditto computer
Why? - even if you don't go Nitrox, the kit will have a higher resale value
Dependent upon your build, I could argue you go for a 12L cylinder (or two) because you could then twin them if/when you want to "go deep/tech" (as you put it)
Also, go for DIN 1st stages - safer than A-Clamp, better for "deep/tech" setups
Above all of this, totally agree with all the posts - learn to dive (safely) first, sort out your buoyancy, then decide based on experience - and of those you'll be diving with, what kit you need.
Howard Mason
06-06-2003, 17:37
Jimmy learn to dive in a pool first and take it very slowly about 10 years minimum I'd say before you start getting involved in mixed gas diving (as you said on your post you want to go deep I assume its this field of tech diving you want to pursue), I've been involved in several body searches in some very deep water for people who have bought their qualifications , there is no short cut to experience , in my opinion there is to much of a rush to get the next badge so learn the basics and learn to dive safe , not just breathe underwater.
"then decide based on experience - and of those you'll be diving with, what kit you need."
I was just about to agree with you when you added that last
bit. IMO one of the biggest causes of incidents is the "boys
toys" mentallity of trying to copy ones peers.
So experience, absolutley. Those you'll be diving with? Well,
only with a pinch of salt and backed up with more than one
club & enviroment.
TerryH
nick kay
07-06-2003, 12:38
Hi Terry
OK, could have gone into more detail about "why"
Here's a for instance to do with (say) computers.
Presuming that an Aladin Nitrox is as safe as a Suunto Nitrox & that both have all the features you need & that both provide the necessary safety for deco, then why buy one rather than the other?
1. Personal preference. Some people prefer the display on the Aladin - allegedly easier to read for those with poorer eyesight
OK, lets presume that "all things are equal", then what?
2. If you dive with people who all (say) have Suuntos, then possibly go for a Suunto as when you dive with that person, you'll probably have a not dissimilar profile (YES, I accept that depth/time/gas takeup will be different as you'll both not be doing EXACTLY the same dive). However diving with two different manufacturers computers on the same wrist will (fme) give two different sets of deco. Again, YES, you'd do the "worst case" deco demanded.
Just pointing out that sometimes going with those around you dive with might be better than being different
Just pointing out that sometimes going with those around you dive with might be better than being different
The danger is that just taking what those in your peer group do as gospel can lead to stagnation and everyone doing things in the same poor way.
Getting experience and knowledge outside of the branch and then bringing ideas back can improve things for everyone.
There is also the danger that following the peer group can lead you to go too far too soon "because everyone else does it". So I think its important to qualify statements like that
Pete
Mike Halligan
09-06-2003, 16:21
Just pointing out that sometimes going with those around you dive with might be better than being different
Hmmm. I can only comment that almost everything I've bought "to fit in" has proved an unhappy experience for one reason or another. I guess most people who've simply aped my selections have been equally unhappy.
I go very firmly with Terry on this and suggest to "my" trainees
"Do your own research, ask others (myself included) _why_ not _what_ they selected for their particular kit. However, don't expect their choice to match your needs or preferences."
HTH the original question.
Mike
nick kay
10-06-2003, 18:06
Agree with all thats been said
Was also expecting a "go with something different bcos if theres a general fault on Suunto, you'll be OK with your Aladin" (or vice versa)
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