Is a weight belt necessary

[Adam Hunt]

During my PIE this weekend I found I was very heavy in the water. So much so that I kitted up in the pool for winter diving, emptied my main tank to 50 bar to readjust my weight.

With the following 300bar 12l, 3l pony, ankle weights, torch, dSMB etc. etc. and ND Divemaster neoprene suit, I found I could maintain neutral buoyancy in the 3m pool without a weightbelt.

This means if I start a dive with a 300bar fill and full pony, I am quite overweighted. I think I have 2 choices
1. dive without weightbelt - but no means of weightbelt dump for emergency ascent.
2. Use a weightbelt for dumping in emergencies but dive very overweighted? (esp when diving in semi-dry)

I see pros and cons for both but have never heard of divers without weightbelts

Any advice would be appreciated

Adam

[Dammyla]

From what you have described, if you have a problem, dump your torch, dump any spare reels or other stuff in your pockets.

You should be neutral at the end of the dive with only permanently attached kit on you. Torches etc could potentially get dropped so you might want to re-think the weight check a little

Likely to only be a Kg or so different but that may be all the difference if you need to hold a stop at 6M with only 10 or 20 bar left in a fubar.

Also make sure the pony is empty for the weight check as that has half a kg or so of gas in it

[Paul Burgess]

I wouldn't recommend either. My preferred solution would be to dive with a balanced rig that you can swim up at any point in the dive should you lose your buoyancy cell.

That would probably mean using a 232bar 15l rather than 300bar 12l.

The ND compressed neoprene suit (5mm IIRC) will also lose buoyancy at depth. A membrane suit will not change inherent buoyancy with depth.

Your weight check was in fresh water. In the sea, you will obviously need a bit more lead.

[Adam Hunt]

Dear Dammyla

I did wonder about the weight of kit so I dumped the ankle weights, torch etc. took the tank down to 10 bar (and 100 bar in the pony) Still on the bottom at 3m so I guess I could hold depth at 6m.

Usually I have an inflater hose from the pony to the BC for an indy source of buoyancy (I use suit therefore main tank during the dive) so if it was all FUBAR I could still self lift or be lifted by CBL.

[Adam Hunt]

Thanks Paul

I do also dive with a 15 232 and will do a weight check with it (and the pony) next week. As for the sea, I would have to wear a weight belt for that perhaps only 1kg or so. Would dumping that be enough to get me to the surface at any part of the dive it if all went South?

[PeteM]

Providing you are about right weight with no weight belt I would not worry about it. A lot (Most?) technical divers dive with no ditchable weight. You have two sources of buoyancy so should be able to deal with loosing either at the beginning of a dive without an issue, at the end it should be simple to swim up to regain buoyancy.

I would leave the ankle weights off though. Most people don't need them.

If however you are significantly over weighted without the weight belt (two empty cylinders) then you may need to rethink your kit to reduce the weight or reconsider what you think of as ditchable weight, such as pony (which may not be negative empty) or torch.

[Adam Hunt]

I assumed that all divers had to have ditchable weight belts. It is only recently I have started using cankle weights because the legs are a little long and I am too cheap to have them cut.

Thanks

Adam

[Nigel Hewitt]

I see pros and cons for both but have never heard of divers without weightbelts
I prefer not to use a weighbelt but since I need some extra lead because I like my big fluffy undersuit I bolt it to the kit so it can't fall off.

As others have asked - do you really need the ankle weights. For most people they are only a trick to keep them feet down when they really want to be horizontal. They just add labour to the dive.

A point on dumping weights. You dump weights at depth to recover the body and on the surface to make sure the idiot stays there. Dumping weight at depth is a recipe for a trip home by Coastguard Airways. If you are correctly weighted to start with you can always find a better solution.

[bythesea]

A point on dumping weights. You dump weights at depth to recover the body and on the surface to make sure the idiot stays there. Dumping weight at depth is a recipe for a trip home by Coastguard Airways. If you are correctly weighted to start with you can always find a better solution.

100% spot on.....

[PeteM]

I assumed that all divers had to have ditchable weight belts.

Think the problem through, how does carrying unnecessary weight add to your safety?

It is only recently I have started using cankle weights because the legs are a little long and I am too cheap to have them cut.

Bungie, knee pads (http://www.deepbluedive.com/department/accessories/assorted/product/knee%20pads/426717) or possibly fin retainers (http://www.deepbluedive.com/department/accessories/fins/product/fin%20retainers/426828)

[Ron MacRae]

I assumed that all divers had to have ditchable weight belts.

No. I don't.
I've had two buddies who lost their weight belts/pouches.
IMO ditchable weight is more likely to be a liability.

Ron.

[bythesea]

Bungie, knee pads or possibly fin retainers


Or better trim? That is the cost free solution....

[Gareth]

I assumed that all divers had to have ditchable weight belts. It is only recently I have started using cankle weights because the legs are a little long and I am too cheap to have them cut.

Thanks

Adam

Adam

Many good things have already been said by others.

The first question is WHY do we wear a weight belt, its not a fashion accessory.

To carry weight you need a reason, so if its not to carry gas (i.e. cylinders), or specific equipment (torches), or to make you sink, then its either redundant, or.... to correct trim (which is a BIG thing).

I would prefer to be 'a little heavy' & have good trim, than have perfect weighting. But it is down to personal preferrence.

In short, if its not carrying out a function then you don't need it!


Getting good trim means a more comfortable dive. It means you can relax in the water & remain horizontal.


Gareth

[Woz]

It's your 300 bar 12 that's dragging you down. They're very negative.

[Ron MacRae]

It's your 300 bar 12 that's dragging you down. They're very negative.

Agreed. I think a 300 bar 12 is about 5KG heavier than a 232 bar 12.

[bythesea]

Agreed. I think a 300 bar 12 is about 5KG heavier than a 232 bar 12.


3 Kg difference in water when empty....approx


Again, approx, the 300 bar will be 2KG neg when empty a 232 approx 1KG positive

http://www.subaqua.co.uk/cgi-bin/cylinder-buoyancy.cgi?units=metric&material=steel&volume=12&pressure=300&weight=17&water=salt

[Nigel Hewitt]

Agreed. I think a 300 bar 12 is about 5KG heavier than a 232 bar 12.
I'd rather have the weight working for me.
Carrying dead-weight lead is just offensive.
700L of extra gas never comes amiss and these days 300 bar fills are easy to get unless you live in a real backwater.

[Richard Whitcombe]

Weighting should ALWAYS be done without any kit you may lose, unclip, donate or anything else on a dive so don't do it with torches, DSMB, heavy reels, stages or anything else attached.

The reason being if you do use, donate or lose that kit you'll be too light.

If you're wearing a thick wetsuit (Gah! WHY!!) then there is a chance you'll be overweighted at depth by the time all that neoprene compresses and loses its warmth and buoyancy.

If its a drysuit and you're single and pony there is no way you should be negative without some form of lead even if it is a 300 bar pony.


That said, if you find you don't need a weight belt then brilliant! I'd love to be able to dive without one as its so much more comfortable. I do NOT want any of my weight to come off under water at all. Thats a recipe for at best a bend or worse - i've seen several incidents by self releasing weight belts and if you're properly weighted should not need one.

A proper weight check you should be able to hold a stop at about 3m depth with a near completley empty suit,bcd with no air in your tank. If you do this check with 50bar remember to add on just over 1/2kg to count for the weight of that air remaining.

If you weight for exactly 50 bar then one day come up with none then you won't be able to stay down.

Ideally a weight check should be done WITHOUT a pony or if its a backmounted thing you cant release underwater or forget on a dive done with it empty or again adding on the weight of the gas in it (again just over 1/2kg)

[Ron MacRae]

That said, if you find you don't need a weight belt then brilliant! I'd love to be able to dive without one as its so much more comfortable. I do NOT want any of my weight to come off under water at all. Thats a recipe for at best a bend or worse - i've seen several incidents by self releasing weight belts and if you're properly weighted should not need one.


That's the reason I went for a twin 12x300bar. Not for the extra gas but the weight. I used to get ill while putting on my weight belt if it was in any way rough. Without a belt it's soo much easier. Now I sit down, clip on, stand up, fall in water. Standing up is the hard part.:)

Ron.

[Ron MacRae]

3 Kg difference in water when empty....approx

I think you're right, although it depends what you're comming from.
From a FABER 12x232 to FABER 12x300 is just under 3KG according to the specs.
The actual weight difference is 3.4KG but the 300s are bigger.
My old cyls might have been a bit lighter, but not that much.
Guess I'm going senile.:confused:
Perhaps 5KG was for a pair, it's several years since I worked it out.

Thanks for the URL, like it.:)

Ron.