Looking for my first BCD

[ronan markey]

Hi,

I am just starting out diving and have tried out some BCD's, my club colleagues seem to have all got Buddy Commando Jkts, some with Auto-air and some with AP200.

I have tried them and they seem good but I do think that they are heavy if you are travelling and also that they tend to squeeze in when you inflate.

I also have my reservations on the mini-cylinder and auto-air after reading a few articles on how dangerous that they can be, Any thoughts or recommendation on a BCd!

Cheers Ro.

[tony dwyer]

Hi,

I am just starting out diving and have tried out some BCD's, my club colleagues seem to have all got Buddy Commando Jkts, some with Auto-air and some with AP200.

I have tried them and they seem good but I do think that they are heavy if you are travelling and also that they tend to squeeze in when you inflate.

I also have my reservations on the mini-cylinder and auto-air after reading a few articles on how dangerous that they can be, Any thoughts or recommendation on a BCd!

Cheers Ro.

The AP Valves Buddy range is practically bomb proof. I've had one for nigh on 15 years and it's still good. Been serviced by AP Valves once! They replaced the bag free of charge.

Look after it and it will last and last. I've taken mine abroad many times and had no cause to regret it. It's a little heavier than some of the less robust BC's, but it is life support gear.

It has been in the water literally 1000's of times! Most Fridays in the pool and whenever I dive in open water.

I have also owned a variety of other BC's (Bouyancy Compensator! The 'device' in PADI speak is redundant American speak! They have a fondness for TLA's = Three Letter Acronym). None have shown the durability and reliability of the Buddy Commando. So I went back to it.

Most other BC's do not have a replaceable bag.

As for the squeeze? If you need that much air in it you are probably overweighted and/or badly trimmed. There's a LOT of lift in a Buddy.

Bite the bullet, buy the Buddy. Forget the Autoair, more bother than it's worth (INMHO) use a regular Octopus arrangement. I had one, threw it away!

You needn't bother with the emergency cylinder, it's only really any good for emergency inflation on the surface, which is neat. BUT, they tend to get neglected and become unreliable. As for breathing of the thing!!!! obtain a fully redundant air supply such as a Pony rig or eventually a twin set. You'll probably live longer.(smile)

I recently bought a Buddy TekWing, that's pretty good too.

One other thing, it's BRITISH! Wave the flag.

regards

Tony

[janet gough]

:=Hi,
:=
:=I am just starting out diving and have tried out some BCD's, my club colleagues seem to have all got Buddy Commando Jkts, some with Auto-air and some with AP200.
:=
:=I have tried them and they seem good but I do think that they are heavy if you are travelling and also that they tend to squeeze in when you inflate.
:=
:=I also have my reservations on the mini-cylinder and auto-air after reading a few articles on how dangerous that they can be, Any thoughts or recommendation on a BCd!
:=
:=Cheers Ro.

The AP Valves Buddy range is practically bomb proof. I've had one for nigh on 15 years and it's still good. Been serviced by AP Valves once! They replaced the bag free of charge.

Look after it and it will last and last. I've taken mine abroad many times and had no cause to regret it. It's a little heavier than some of the less robust BC's, but it is life support gear.

It has been in the water literally 1000's of times! Most Fridays in the pool and whenever I dive in open water.

I have also owned a variety of other BC's (Bouyancy Compensator! The 'device' in PADI speak is redundant American speak! They have a fondness for TLA's = Three Letter Acronym). None have shown the durability and reliability of the Buddy Commando. So I went back to it.

Most other BC's do not have a replaceable bag.

As for the squeeze? If you need that much air in it you are probably overweighted and/or badly trimmed. There's a LOT of lift in a Buddy.

Bite the bullet, buy the Buddy. Forget the Autoair, more bother than it's worth (INMHO) use a regular Octopus arrangement. I had one, threw it away!

You needn't bother with the emergency cylinder, it's only really any good for emergency inflation on the surface, which is neat. BUT, they tend to get neglected and become unreliable. As for breathing of the thing!!!! obtain a fully redundant air supply such as a Pony rig or eventually a twin set. You'll probably live longer.(smile)

I recently bought a Buddy TekWing, that's pretty good too.

One other thing, it's BRITISH! Wave the flag.

regards

Tony


I have always had buddy jacket never had any problems in 15yrs 1st jacket was a seaking style this is now used in the pool my main jacket is the explorer style
i did look at cheaper lighter jackets but have known other divers replace their BC more frequently due to wear / tear

buddy will service replace inner / outer bags and valves for a very reasonable cost and also the emergency cylinder can be replaced cheaply

as the saying goes you get what you pay for
and with buddy it is a good deal.

[tristan green]

Ro,

Echoing the other comments about the AP Valves products. I have owned a Buddy Commando Slimline jacket for over 14 years and it has seen action in all sorts of conditions all over the world.

I agree that while it is heavier than some other brands it is definitely worth it for the added robustness. If weight is a serious consideration for you, then you could look at the Buddy Tropical which, from memory, may be lighter than a standard commando jacket and aimed at the frequent traveller (but I couldn't tell you how much lighter it is) - one of our members has one and it seems every bit as good as the other Buddy jackets.

I would also reiterate the high quality of the after sales service, which I believe is second to none. They have recently sent individual spare parts to Hong Kong for me to keep my jacket in tip-top condition.

At the end of the day it comes down to whether it's right for you - try some out, talk to your buddies and take you choice.

All the best,
Tristan

[john bache]

I'd just like to comment on the emergency cylinders fitted to some buddy jackets (Mine included).

1. The cylinder feeds the jacket through a special fitting with a tiny port which restricts the flow. This makes the inflation nicely controlled even through it's feeding a high pressure without a regulator.

2. If the worst comes to the worst and for some reason the cylinder did get turned on and the diver didnt figure this out.. the bottle is only small and would be exhausted after two or three fills of the jacket, so after hanging on to one of the dump valves for a little while the matter would be resolved.

3. It does give the wearer another option for getting to the surface if everything else is offline/empty for any reason.

That said you seem to be doing the right thing already by trying out the jackets to see which ones you like before you hand over your hard earned cash.


Good luck with your BCD selection.

John.

Hi,

I am just starting out diving and have tried out some BCD's, my club colleagues seem to have all got Buddy Commando Jkts, some with Auto-air and some with AP200.

I have tried them and they seem good but I do think that they are heavy if you are travelling and also that they tend to squeeze in when you inflate.

I also have my reservations on the mini-cylinder and auto-air after reading a few articles on how dangerous that they can be, Any thoughts or recommendation on a BCd!

Cheers Ro.

[tony dwyer]

I'd just like to comment on the emergency cylinders fitted to some buddy jackets (Mine included).

1. The cylinder feeds the jacket through a special fitting with a tiny port which restricts the flow. This makes the inflation nicely controlled even through it's feeding a high pressure without a regulator.

The port is not that tiny. On my buddy Commando the cylinder would fully inflate the bag in less than 2 seconds! It's true that one can control the air flow with the valve, but I believe it's too fiddly a skill to be considered in an energency underwater. Like I said, surface use only. Quick and easy positive buoyancy.

2. If the worst comes to the worst and for some reason the cylinder did get turned on and the diver didnt figure this out.. the bottle is only small and would be exhausted after two or three fills of the jacket, so after hanging on to one of the dump valves for a little while the matter would be resolved.

The valve is unlikely to be opened accidentally. However, it will still fully inflate the BC in nothing flat if it's opened in a panic. The diver then becomes a ballistic missile.
INMHO the emergency cylinder should not be used as an ascent aid. Unless you are sending a corpse to the surface.

3. It does give the wearer another option for getting to the surface if everything else is offline/empty for any reason.

?? Loosing a little weight will have the same effect and be more controlled. I'm lucky, in my drysuit I'm neutral at whatever depth with VERY little air in the suit and about 50 bar left. Thus I simply swim up. Thereafter it's controlled drift up, with the autodump taking care of any expansion
There's no substitute for correct weighting and trim.

That said you seem to be doing the right thing already by trying out the jackets to see which ones you like before you hand over your hard earned cash.

Agreed.

Regards

Tony

[john bache]

It might be worth mentioning, that if a diver does dump some weight to gain buoyancy, that there is no easy way of reversing the change. This is a marked contrast to putting air in a suit or buoyancy jacket from whatever source, where the air can be released on the way to the surface to control the ascent.

Having said that however it is well worth remembering that dumping some kit or weights and making an ascent to the surface under sub optimal control (and possibly winning the X prize by accident) is probably a better option than drowning on the bottom for fear of making an uncontrolled ascent.

If a diver has a self inflating DSMB or the like then this may be of of some use as a buoyancy aid in an emergency.

Regards,

John.



:=I'd just like to comment on the emergency cylinders fitted to some buddy jackets (Mine included).
:=
:=1. The cylinder feeds the jacket through a special fitting with a tiny port which restricts the flow. This makes the inflation nicely controlled even through it's feeding a high pressure without a regulator.
:=
The port is not that tiny. On my buddy Commando the cylinder would fully inflate the bag in less than 2 seconds! It's true that one can control the air flow with the valve, but I believe it's too fiddly a skill to be considered in an energency underwater. Like I said, surface use only. Quick and easy positive buoyancy.

:=2. If the worst comes to the worst and for some reason the cylinder did get turned on and the diver didnt figure this out.. the bottle is only small and would be exhausted after two or three fills of the jacket, so after hanging on to one of the dump valves for a little while the matter would be resolved.
:=
The valve is unlikely to be opened accidentally. However, it will still fully inflate the BC in nothing flat if it's opened in a panic. The diver then becomes a ballistic missile.
INMHO the emergency cylinder should not be used as an ascent aid. Unless you are sending a corpse to the surface.

:=3. It does give the wearer another option for getting to the surface if everything else is offline/empty for any reason.
:=
?? Loosing a little weight will have the same effect and be more controlled. I'm lucky, in my drysuit I'm neutral at whatever depth with VERY little air in the suit and about 50 bar left. Thus I simply swim up. Thereafter it's controlled drift up, with the autodump taking care of any expansion
There's no substitute for correct weighting and trim.

:=That said you seem to be doing the right thing already by trying out the jackets to see which ones you like before you hand over your hard earned cash.

Agreed.

Regards

Tony

[tony dwyer]

It might be worth mentioning, that if a diver does dump some weight to gain buoyancy, that there is no easy way of reversing the change. This is a marked contrast to putting air in a suit or buoyancy jacket from whatever source, where the air can be released on the way to the surface to control the ascent.

I agree, but I was referring to a panicking diver. They do not behave rationally. I've met more than one(not my buddies).
My suggestion is to dump only a small amount of weight. Not the whole shebang. This of course needs consideration in advance and correct trim.

Having said that however it is well worth remembering that dumping some kit or weights and making an ascent to the surface under sub optimal control (and possibly winning the X prize by accident) is probably a better option than drowning on the bottom for fear of making an uncontrolled ascent.

Yup!
If a diver has a self inflating DSMB or the like then this may be of of some use as a buoyancy aid in an emergency.


Good idea. Making sure of course that the thing is free to ascend without towing the diver up to seek the X prize. Who are you betting on? Burt Rutan?

regards

Tony

[john bache]

Who are you betting on? Burt Rutan?

Although Burt's team are probably going to win I'll side with John Carmack's offering ... mostly because of how cool Quake turned out to be.

Regards,

John.

[Dave Woodward]

With regard to squeeze, I have found I never have a problem because I do the inside strap tight (cummerbund) and the outside clip strap loose to let the jacket inflate away from my body. The inside strap will hold it in place OK .
Try it and see if it does solve the problem>
Dave

Hi,

I am just starting out diving and have tried out some BCD's, my club colleagues seem to have all got Buddy Commando Jkts, some with Auto-air and some with AP200.

I have tried them and they seem good but I do think that they are heavy if you are travelling and also that they tend to squeeze in when you inflate.

I also have my reservations on the mini-cylinder and auto-air after reading a few articles on how dangerous that they can be, Any thoughts or recommendation on a BCd!

Cheers Ro.

[siltmonkey]

Hi,

I am just starting out diving and have tried out some BCD's, my club colleagues seem to have all got Buddy Commando Jkts, some with Auto-air and some with AP200.

I have tried them and they seem good but I do think that they are heavy if you are travelling and also that they tend to squeeze in when you inflate.

I also have my reservations on the mini-cylinder and auto-air after reading a few articles on how dangerous that they can be, Any thoughts or recommendation on a BCd!

Cheers Ro.

Have a look on this page: www.bitz.fsnet.co.uk

Think about a single-tank wing and backplate/harness instead. It won't squeeze at all, will fit you perfectly and is not heavy.

:)

[terryh]

Think about a single-tank wing and backplate/harness instead. It won't squeeze at all, will fit you perfectly and is not heavy.


No dont think about a single tank wing! Stick with what you
know until you get a fair few dives under your belt. Plenty of
time for wings later when YOU can decide if they are right for
you.

ANY BC you buy now can easily be sold later s/hand and by then
you will have enough experience to be objective.

If you are thinking AP, then make sure it's the right size.
Many divers think that it should wrap round you. It doesnt.
Should be a large gap in the centre. Depending on height go for
an explorer not commando. The explorer is shorter. That's why
they dont make small in commandos - too long.

TerryH

[NeilB]

Bit late to this thread but better late than never!

I have been diving for over 22 years and my first BC was a Buddy Commando - I am still using it! It went for its first official service this year (I have cleaned and greased what ever was needed up until now). It only went for a service because one of the clips broke - all clips have now been updated to the new style free of charge. The bail out bottle has been swapped for a new one and the bladder cleaned. All this after over 1500 dives for ?68 inclusive of postage to my house.....a bargain. Try that with some of the other BCs out there!

If you take the cost of a Commando when I bought it and include the cost of a service the jacket has cost less than 20p a dive. I'm happy.

[tony dwyer]

Who are you betting on? Burt Rutan?

Although Burt's team are probably going to win I'll side with John Carmack's offering ... mostly because of how cool Quake turned out to be.

Regards,

John.

They've taken the first step. Planned Composites flight yesterday was one for the history books. Burt Rutan is an amazing bloke.
I have doubts about an orbital re-entry vehicle though. Mega money!

regards

Tony