View Full Version : DOC 2005
Steve Walker
09-11-2005, 19:46
>Dear Instructor
>
>Diving Officers' Conference 2005
>
>I'm sure you're already aware that the Diving Officers' >Conference is fast approaching.
Hmmm... yes, and where is it? London (again) where parking is non-existent, hotels (and everything else) are expensive and it's ?28 just to cross the threshold of the conference so clearly the venue and expenses for the speakers are expensive too and... well, you get the picture. Unsurprisingly, I won't be attending (again).
Someday, perhaps someone at HQ might realise there are good reasons why the London-based DOC attracts (according to my current understanding) fewer attendees than Divewise, the north-east England dive conference, does :p
David Walker
10-11-2005, 00:39
Someday, perhaps someone at HQ might realise there are good reasons why the London-based DOC attracts (according to my current understanding) fewer attendees than Divewise, the north-east England dive conference, does
Aren't the ones who organise it also the ones who get their expenses paid though? Possibly not so easy to convince them to give up their luxury weekend away in London for a grotty B&B and an old drafty church hall in the midlands... :O)
To be fair, I imagine most people could come up with a better way to spend ?28 than sitting around listening to a few people talk about BSAC, the useful information from which can be read on the internet the following day anyway!
What, a cynic, me? :oO
David
Why has it got to be london , HQ is in liverpool so it's not that the conference is there because it needs to be near HQ is it.
Surgestion find the geograpical centre of the country and locate the nearest large venue and hold it there then travelling is at a minimum for those divers and instructors that are based at the far flung regions of this country .
This may have a knock on effect that the ticket price goes down aswell .
Neil ;-)
Nigel Hewitt
10-11-2005, 08:46
Someday, perhaps someone at HQ might realise there are good reasons why the London-based DOC attracts (according to my current understanding) fewer attendees than Divewise, the north-east England dive conference, does
Is this true?
I thought it was just me who was very reluctant to venture inside the M25 unless I'm being paid for it.
Steve Walker
10-11-2005, 09:06
:=Someday, perhaps someone at HQ might realise there are good reasons why the London-based DOC attracts (according to my current understanding) fewer attendees than Divewise, the north-east England dive conference, does
Is this true?
I thought it was just me who was very reluctant to venture inside the M25 unless I'm being paid for it.
You mean the north-east conference attendance figures? Yes, to the best of my knowledge, it was mentioned this year by Divewise's organizer, Dave Taylor during a meeting. We normally get somewhere between 230-300 divers attending and it'll certainly be a biggy this year (ie March 2006) as it's the 10th anniversary show.
tristan green
10-11-2005, 10:01
Hi,
Why not check out the similar thread started on our new look forums - on there you can even cast your vote in our straw poll if you are a branch officer.
<a href="http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/" >http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/</a>
You'll have to register to access the forum and provide your BSAC number when you login. But after that it's really easy.
Cheers,
Tristan
Andy Wade
10-11-2005, 10:44
Hi,
Why not check out the similar thread started on our new look forums - on there you can even cast your vote in our straw poll if you are a branch officer.
OK Tristran, I looked on the new forum, but I couldn't find any reference to DOC 2005, and I did a search too.
Where is it?
http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/
And here is the thread in question. Complete with a poll
<a href="http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160" >http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160</a>
AndyWilkes
10-11-2005, 11:07
Hi Matt
The forum says that I do not have permission to access the page!
Cheers
Andy
:= http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/
And here is the thread in question. Complete with a poll
http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160
Andy Wade
10-11-2005, 11:12
Hi Matt
The forum says that I do not have permission to access the page!
Me neither, it must be in the 'BSAC members only' section
that would explain it.
Steve Walker
10-11-2005, 13:14
:=Hi Matt
:=
:=The forum says that I do not have permission to access the page!
:=
Me neither, it must be in the 'BSAC members only' section
that would explain it.
I've registered and still can't access it!
Nigel Hewitt
10-11-2005, 13:22
I've registered and still can't access it!
It might be in an instructor or club officer area and I believe they are manually added to your profile at the moment. I can't see it either.
Adrian Kelland
10-11-2005, 13:33
:=:=Hi Matt
:=:=
:=:=The forum says that I do not have permission to access the page!
:=:=
:=
:=Me neither, it must be in the 'BSAC members only' section
:=that would explain it.
I've registered and still can't access it!
Steve,
In the control panel, please enter your membership number 'Annnnnn', branch no 'nnnn' and renewal month (when membership start). There is a regular process that check these against the membership system and if all is OK, you get access to the various member only areas depending on if you are a committee member, instructor etc.
PM me if you continue to have problems.
Adrian
Considering the current venue is usually at a London Uni and
that we have so many Uni branches around the country. All with
state of the art facilities which are bookable and empty over the weekend, you wouldnt exactly be strapped for a venue.
The venue is proably more to do with the politics of
sponsership then anything else.
TerryH
tristan green
10-11-2005, 13:36
:=I've registered and still can't access it!
It might be in an instructor or club officer area and I believe they are manually added to your profile at the moment. I can't see it either.
Ah,
Apologies to everyone who isn't a BSAC branch officer - you won't be able to see where the thread is posted. As my title on the new forums says I'm the "novice administrator" - now you know why.
It is in the BSAC members area - one of the added extras for our members - that guests and people who are not BSAC members can't see. I guess I'll have to repost the thing in the public area so you can see it.
Cheers,
Tristan
tristan green
10-11-2005, 13:52
Hi,
Why not check out the similar thread started on our new look forums - on there you can even cast your vote in our straw poll if you are a branch officer.
http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/
You'll have to register to access the forum and provide your BSAC number when you login. But after that it's really easy.
Cheers,
Tristan
It's now here:
<a href="http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160" >http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160</a>
So you can all see it.
Cheers,
Tristan
Bob Healey
10-11-2005, 13:53
Well Terry I'm amazed, we are shouting from the same corner, and as one of the two Council members living north of the Severn/Thames Rivers I am already in the throes of putting together a proposal for Council for the DOC to come north next year. The Proposal would be Liverpool, against my better judgement as a Mancunian, but it is the nearest City to Headquarters, for starters.
I have tried Universities but they won't rent out in term time, or don't have Venues large enough, but there are other venues within the City that are capable of hosting the Conference.
I expect a battle for the proposal to be accepted but it will be considered.
The Council meeting is at the end of November so we will see.
Someone at Headquarters is listening.
If any Branch Officers, Instructors, etc, would care to email me with their views I would be pleased to hear from them. Email <a href="mailto:bob.healey@bsac.com">bob.healey@bsac.com</a>
Bob Healey.
tristan green
10-11-2005, 13:56
Bob,
Check out the poll on the new forum and you will see how many others would like it held in Liverpool.
<a href="http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160" >http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160</a>
Cheers,
Tristan
Bob Healey
10-11-2005, 14:01
Cheers Tristan,
But moving it to Liverpool would be a start, I'm in favour of moving it around the country, Liverpoll was somewhere to start, in the north, can't be too radical or it might never get moved.
Cheers
Bob
Mike Halligan
10-11-2005, 14:16
Cheers Tristan,
But moving it to Liverpool would be a start, I'm in favour of moving it around the country, Liverpoll was somewhere to start, in the north, can't be too radical or it might never get moved.
Cheers
Bob,
One problem with the Liverpool idea is communications. (Another might be perceptions, Bill Bryson, etc.)
For NDC this weekend, and DOC later, I've chosen to fly MAN - LHR (own expense, before anyone chokes) because Mr Branson's trainset is scheduled to take over 5 hours to reach Liverpool on return, i.e. seriously poorer "service" than Manch. In fact, the air fare is less than train but it is then taxed to the hilt so I understand why I shouldn't claim.
Work colleagues and I regularly miss meetings held in London because of rail service failures, to the extent that one of us was turned away at Lime St last week, being told the journey wasn't worth attempting. 2hours delay is not unusual.
Much the same applies to air and coach services out of LPL. Manchester is hugely better served and has the largest concentration of students outside London.
Regretfully,
Mike (Liverpool resident)
Andy Wade
10-11-2005, 14:30
:=Hi,
:=
:=Why not check out the similar thread started on our new look forums - on there you can even cast your vote in our straw poll if you are a branch officer.
:=
:= http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/
:=
:=You'll have to register to access the forum and provide your BSAC number when you login. But after that it's really easy.
:=
:=Cheers,
:=Tristan
It's now here:
http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160
So you can all see it.
Many thanks for that Tristan.
I would register but my membership ran out in April, I'm considering BSAC Direct as I'm not a branch member any more.
The jury is still out as to whether or not I _need_ to be a member of BSAC. Although the new forum is quite a good incentive to renew IMO.
One problem with the Liverpool idea is communications. :=Mike (Liverpool resident)
Surely the most obvious place for any DOC would be a place
where an awful lot of us go anyway, either in winter or
October.
Yep I'm talking Midlands - Birmingham, NEC, Coventry, Stoney,
Dosthill areas etc etc.
Communications? Well your are not exactly short on motorways,
airports or train links and it is central to a lot of the UK.
TerryH
Mike Halligan
10-11-2005, 15:21
Yep I'm talking Midlands - Birmingham, NEC, Coventry, Stoney,
Dosthill areas etc etc.
Communications? Well your are not exactly short on motorways,
airports or train links and it is central to a lot of the UK.
Terry,
Absolutely, couldn't agree more, and even better I found that Aston, Warwick and Coventry Uni's all offered excellent facilities.
When I was meeting organiser and occasionally conference bimbo a few years ago, we also found Leeds was incredibly well connected. I think Leeds has gone up in the world since then though.
Mike
Adrian Kelland
10-11-2005, 15:21
:=
:=One problem with the Liverpool idea is communications. :=Mike (Liverpool resident)
Surely the most obvious place for any DOC would be a place
where an awful lot of us go anyway, either in winter or
October.
Yep I'm talking Midlands - Birmingham, NEC, Coventry, Stoney,
Dosthill areas etc etc.
Communications? Well your are not exactly short on motorways,
airports or train links and it is central to a lot of the UK.
TerryH
Love it or hate it, Birmingham is the central city with good links all over the country, even if it is a bit South for some.
Adrian
Steve Walker
10-11-2005, 16:01
PM me if you continue to have problems.
Adrian
Sorted, cheers dude :)
Steve Walker
10-11-2005, 16:16
:=:=Hi,
:=:=
:=:=Why not check out the similar thread started on our new look forums - on there you can even cast your vote in our straw poll if you are a branch officer.
:=:=
:=:= http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/
:=:=
:=:=You'll have to register to access the forum and provide your BSAC number when you login. But after that it's really easy.
:=:=
:=:=Cheers,
:=:=Tristan
:=
:=It's now here:
:=
:= http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160
:=
:=So you can all see it.
Many thanks for that Tristan.
I would register but my membership ran out in April, I'm considering BSAC Direct as I'm not a branch member any more.
The jury is still out as to whether or not I _need_ to be a member of BSAC. Although the new forum is quite a good incentive to renew IMO.
Hmmm... just tried to mail you with some relevant info , but the mail couldn't get through to you, try e-mailing me through the forum to see if that works
David Walker
10-11-2005, 16:53
Absolutely, couldn't agree more, and even better I found that Aston, Warwick and Coventry Uni's all offered excellent facilities.
*waves little Warwick flag*
Hehe
Warwick is actually looking at hosting some IFCs for similar kinds of reasons - no one can get to Worcester and Coalville where they're usually held unless they've got a car! Nice and central too. The Uni have suddenly decided that they want clubs to have more links to the rest of the world, so might be particularly helpful with holding BSAC conferences if we talked to the right people.
David
Andy Wade
10-11-2005, 18:40
:=:=:=Hi,
:=:=:=
:=:=:=Why not check out the similar thread started on our new look forums - on there you can even cast your vote in our straw poll if you are a branch officer.
:=:=:=
:=:=:= http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/
:=:=:=
:=:=:=You'll have to register to access the forum and provide your BSAC number when you login. But after that it's really easy.
:=:=:=
:=:=:=Cheers,
:=:=:=Tristan
:=:=
:=:=It's now here:
:=:=
:=:= http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=160
:=:=
:=:=So you can all see it.
:=
:=Many thanks for that Tristan.
:=I would register but my membership ran out in April, I'm considering BSAC Direct as I'm not a branch member any more.
:=The jury is still out as to whether or not I _need_ to be a member of BSAC. Although the new forum is quite a good incentive to renew IMO.
Hmmm... just tried to mail you with some relevant info , but the mail couldn't get through to you, try e-mailing me through the forum to see if that works
Where it says REMOVETHIS at the start of my email address, you have to remove it first.
An attempt at foiling spam, seems to work OK
try me_at_andywade.co.uk
Keith Lawrence(BSAC)
10-11-2005, 20:38
I am already in the throes of putting together a proposal for Council for the DOC to come north next year. The Proposal would be Liverpool, against my better judgement as a Mancunian, but it is the nearest City to Headquarters, for starters.
I expect a battle for the proposal to be accepted but it will be considered.
Well I'm against your proposal for a start Bob - but then you know why via the Council email list :-) But personally I support the idea of a mobile DOC, I have openly said so for many years and raised the issue several times. So I'm agreeing with the members here as well, I fully support the principle that we should move DOC around (there are practicalities - we can't just "do it").
As a side note Bob - have a look at the straw poll over on <a href="http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/" >http://new.bsacforum.co.uk/</a> to see the concensus so far for a specific Liverpool option :-)
Keith L
David Walker
10-11-2005, 21:07
:=I am already in the throes of putting together a proposal for Council for the DOC to come north next year. The Proposal would be Liverpool, against my better judgement as a Mancunian, but it is the nearest City to Headquarters, for starters.
What's the point in Liverpool? Near to HQ, but far more difficult for most of the rest of the country to get to than Birmingham or somewhere more central.
Question: are you trying to make a nice short journey for a few staff at HQ, or do you think that the location should be based on where the majority of BSAC members can most easily get to?
I know the answer that most members would expect... just wondering if Council think the same!?!
I fully support the principle that we should move DOC around (there are practicalities - we can't just "do it").
A lot of other big conferences move around each year (with far more than who attend DOC), there's no reason not to move it. That said, is it better to have it alternating between the Orkneys and Land's End every couple of years, or would it be better keeping it somewhere a bit more central / easy to reach every year? I'm thinking somewhere central - at least then everyone has a chance, where as if it moves a long way south every couple of years then those in the North have little chance of attending - the same if it ends up in Scotland, you'll never get any Cornish DO's up there!
David
Keith Lawrence(BSAC)
10-11-2005, 22:04
A lot of other big conferences move around each year (with far more than who attend DOC), there's no reason not to move it.
If only life were so easy David :-) It's not a policy "choice" to hold it in London where we do, it's simple practicalities and of course MONEY! DOC is self financing, as well as being of benefit to the deligates (it's a good day out!) it is also of benefit to the club.
So when this goes to Council (it will) we don't have the simple choice of "OK, let's just move it", the real question is "can we afford to move it?". Sorry mate but I'm being serious here - what's it worth to move it? Can we afford ?10K, ?20K, ?30K to do so? (no, we can't) If we do WHAT shall we cut back on to afford it? That's a Council decision David when all options and implications have been fully considered, that's what we do, and although I fully support the principle the practice does need very serious consideration. I honestly can't tell you which way I will vote right now - I don't have the answers any more than anybody else.
The very first DOC I attended (before I was on Council) was the Harrogate event, I enjoyed it, it was a great couple of days, couldn't we do something like that again? Well, we could... but Harrogate cost us an awful lot - with the benefit of hindsight it damn near cost us the club :-(
HTH
Keith L
David Walker
10-11-2005, 23:49
If only life were so easy David :-) It's not a policy "choice" to hold it in London where we do, it's simple practicalities and of course MONEY! DOC is self financing, as well as being of benefit to the deligates (it's a good day out!) it is also of benefit to the club.
Bah, stupid thing broke after I wrote a reply :O(
Basically it doesn't *need* to cost in the ?10's of thousands... all it is is getting a couple of hundred people together in a room for a weekend. Do BSAC need to pay people to come and speak to a few hundred people? Why not combine it with the AGM as someone else suggested, or hold it for a couple of hours at the Dive Show - most people are there already, and the important bits don't take long - the rest is just padding really!
Of course bringing it out of London is bound to cut costs too - not just the venue, but all the associated expenses, and of course if you get more people then that cost will be spread, can cut the price to get more there, and might make it more worthwhile.
Just ideas, obviously I don't know the detail, but if the current format costs so much that could be better spent, isn't that a big waste of BSAC's resources that could be better spent? Think of all the things we could do with an extra ?40k or whatever will be spent on DOC - must have spend thousands just on sending letters and stuff out to all the instructors!
Sure you'll come up with a good compromise! :O)
David
:=:=
Just ideas, obviously I don't know the detail, but if the current format costs so much that could be better spent, isn't that a big waste of BSAC's resources that could be better spent? Think of all the things we could do with an extra ?40k or whatever will be spent on DOC - must have spend thousands just on sending letters and stuff out to all the instructors!
Sure you'll come up with a good compromise! :O)
David
Ok lets do some back of fag packet maths.
Average of 500 candidates of which say 100 get in for free.
So that will be subs of 400 x ?28 = ?11,200
Ok out of that we have promotion, speaker costs, expenses etc.
But the show is sponsered, so subs will be coming from that
source as well.
Maybe if its moved to eg. the Midlands, other potential
sponsers will come out of the woodwork.
Having been involved in several conferences and shows in my
time, a venue with those sort of figures is not a problem as
long as you dont go too mad with the padding (that will be
the hired guns).
What might be is the ghost of Harrogate, but with hindsight
I cant see that ever happening again. Think its more of a case
of the will to do it rather than the practicalities.
TerryH
Bob Healey
11-11-2005, 14:41
Liverpool as a vanue was only a suggestion. The main purpose for raising it was to get Council to agree to a move.
Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, are all good locations, many others as well, moving it round like the AGM would be excellent, give everybody a bite at the cherry, but still the main item for the agenda is getting the agreement to move it, once that as been agreed then we can find a suitable venue bearing in mind travel, accomodation, etc, and remember not all members live in England, there are other Countries within the UK.
Bob Healey
Love it or hate it, Birmingham is the central city with good links all over the country, even if it is a bit South for some.
Coventry is far nicer and it's a little bit more central.
Warwick Uni gets my vote.
david taylor
11-11-2005, 20:05
Regional conferences have to be self financing too! Hate to blow the north easts trumpet but we have run conferences in the north east (Durham City) for 9 years, next March is our 10th birthday. We get between 200-300 people turn up, costs ?6.50,which includes a prize draw for a MTM drysuit, all of the questionnaires we get back indicate that people have a great day out. Next year we have Jack Ingle, a diver from the British Antarctic Survey team, as well as loads of local stuff. People ring me now to find out when they can get tickets. We never make a great deal of money, sometimes we get to three figures, but we have never yet done Divewise at a loss. I know HQ work hard for the members but is there not a better( cheaper) way of doing DOC? Could it be combined with regional conferences. I know that Northern Ireland, Yorkshire, North West and South East regions are all doing or have done conferences. Is there not a venue in South Yorkshire or Manchester that may fit the bill?
Liverpool as a vanue was only a suggestion. The main purpose for raising it was to get Council to agree to a move.
Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, are all good locations, many others as well, moving it round like the AGM would be excellent, give everybody a bite at the cherry, but still the main item for the agenda is getting the agreement to move it, once that as been agreed then we can find a suitable venue bearing in mind travel, accomodation, etc, and remember not all members live in England, there are other Countries within the UK.
Bob Healey
david taylor
11-11-2005, 20:06
Regional conferences have to be self financing too! Hate to blow the north easts trumpet but we have run conferences in the north east (Durham City) for 9 years, next March is our 10th birthday. We get between 200-300 people turn up, costs ?6.50,which includes a prize draw for a MTM drysuit, all of the questionnaires we get back indicate that people have a great day out. Next year we have Jack Ingle, a diver from the British Antarctic Survey team, as well as loads of local stuff. People ring me now to find out when they can get tickets. We never make a great deal of money, sometimes we get to three figures, but we have never yet done Divewise at a loss. I know HQ work hard for the members but is there not a better( cheaper) way of doing DOC? Could it be combined with regional conferences. I know that Northern Ireland, Yorkshire, North West and South East regions are all doing or have done conferences. Is there not a venue in South Yorkshire or Manchester that may fit the bill?
Liverpool as a vanue was only a suggestion. The main purpose for raising it was to get Council to agree to a move.
Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, are all good locations, many others as well, moving it round like the AGM would be excellent, give everybody a bite at the cherry, but still the main item for the agenda is getting the agreement to move it, once that as been agreed then we can find a suitable venue bearing in mind travel, accomodation, etc, and remember not all members live in England, there are other Countries within the UK.
Bob Healey
David Walker
11-11-2005, 21:46
Coventry is far nicer and it's a little bit more central.
Hmm.... never thought i'd see "coventry" and "nice" in the same sentence... ever! :O\
Warwick Uni gets my vote.
Well I am a bit biased (since I'm doing my second degree here...) but it is a nice place, and easy to get to. Only one potential problem is the lack of cheap accommodation on campus (they want about ?60-?80/night for campus rooms, and they're only available outside of term time) - sure they could point to some local B&Bs though, but not quite the same as all being in a big hotel. Worth a look though if BSAC do decide to look for somewhere more central.
David
Hmm.... never thought i'd see "coventry" and "nice" in the same sentence... ever! :O\
LOL. We are comparing it to Birmingham! It's all relative. I don't think I will be moving back there though ;-)
Well I am a bit biased (since I'm doing my second degree here...) but it is a nice place, and easy to get to.
Yep.
Only one potential problem is the lack of cheap accommodation on campus (they want about ?60-?80/night for campus rooms,
There are some business hotels a few miles down the A45 that do weekend rates. The Coventry Hill Britannia at Allesley has rooms from ?35.00 per night for instance. Such a central location would makes it possible for the vast majority to get there and back in a day.
:=Hmm.... never thought i'd see "coventry" and "nice" in the same sentence... ever! :O\
LOL. We are comparing it to Birmingham! It's all relative. I don't think I will be moving back there though ;-)
:=Well I am a bit biased (since I'm doing my second degree here...) but it is a nice place, and easy to get to.
Yep.
:=Only one potential problem is the lack of cheap accommodation on campus (they want about ?60-?80/night for campus rooms,
There are some business hotels a few miles down the A45 that do weekend rates. The Coventry Hill Britannia at Allesley has rooms from ?35.00 per night for instance. Such a central location would makes it possible for the vast majority to get there and back in a day.
4* Village Coventry just off the A45.
?50 per room including breakfast.
(That's ?25 each)
Tel.
Peter Gray
13-11-2005, 22:34
London is one of the most accessible locations. I live in Belfast and would be concerned that other locations might prove to be much less so. However, a big disincentive to attending is that the DOC only lasts one day. First, it is a long way to travel in return for so little conference. Secondly, having looked at the programme I feel that there is too little reward for the effort. The programme is crammed leaving too little time for presentations that could do with more, and too little margin for coping with over-runs. Most items that interest me I can look forward to reading about afterwards, eg Incidents Report. The more original items, eg Divemaster and Blandford lectures constitute too small a percentage of the proceedings. Other items, such as who got what award are interesting, but not enough to drag me to London. Perhaps I'm getting a bit grumpy but I'd quite like to see a return to the 2-day format of the DOC in London many years ago. Those were the days.
Many thanks for your feedback about DOC. The DOC team had already discussed about looking at a new venue for the conference and research has already started to take place. We already have some interesting venues in Liverpool supplied to us. However if you have any ideas of a good venue, please could you email me and we will look into it. The venue needs to be able to seat up to 900 people and obviously be accessible by public transport. Once we have a few venues through the country we will be approaching them for quotes. Please email me any of your ideas to <a href="mailto:maryt@bsac.com">maryt@bsac.com</a>.
Regards
Mary Tetley
BSAC Operations Manager
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